Windom Earle
Member
Yes, you are a terrible person. Just imagine how terrible it will be when Ubisoft asks to kickstart Assassin's Creed next year. What about the poor children??? Gaming as we know it has been ruined by Yu Suzuki. again.
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Sony is officially helping with funding and development with Shenmue 3
- Thread starter kamakazi5
- Start date
Yes, you are a terrible person. Just imagine how terrible it will be when Ubisoft asks to kickstart Assassin's Creed next year. What about the poor children??? Gaming as we know it has been ruined by Yu Suzuki. again.
longdi
Banned
Exactly! What is wrong with you gaffers???
Windom Earle
Member
True, they had to scrap huge parts of the project and start from scratch. Giving any numbers at this point is useless.
Audible Phonetics
Member
I highly doubt they'll make the game look like a dreamcast game. Simple dollar inflation and production methods alone will cost more money.
You have to believe a good portion of the people they hope to appeal to are the millennials. They won't get them using nostalgic Dreamcast/Xbox graphics.
Game was already confirmed to be using UE4 wasn't it? So I guess starting from scratch.
Strong language there, but completely understandable frustration... And yes, I could well see this being cited for years to come as one of the most embarassing threads in Neogaf history like the Bayo 2 thread.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Witcher was also made in a country with lower income pay. Are you saying they should move the entire development to a foreign country?
Windom Earle
Member
Already announced to use UE4.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I will note that as it pertains to this and the post you quoted, it would be far more beneficial to the conversation to actually expend at least a modicum of effort to try and understand where people are coming from and address their concerns in good faith rather than make posts like this. Sure, maybe some people are just "salty fanboys" (I cringed typing that), but others may have legitimate concerns. Still others may just be a bit confused and a simple clarification will set the record straight.
Windom Earle
Member
I agree, but I have the impression that everything has been said at this point. This conversation leads to nothing. I am not asking to close the thread, but this is just a circle of frustration.
Yes. Shenmue 3 deserves ALL OF YOUR MONEY!
The witcher 3 cost only 32 million to produce because it was made in poland. Shenmue 3 will be made in japan.
I rarely use the phrase "worse than hitler"...
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Perhaps they didn't want to hurt the chances of the Kickstarter not being funded by announcing that they were willing to pay for some of the development once it met its goal? I remember there being a similar issue with the Amplitude Kickstarter, where some felt that there was less incentive to help Harmonix fund it because they knew that Sony would be footing part of the bill if it made its goal.
I could see it being something like that, where they didn't want folks assuming that they would throw money at it because they felt it would hurt its KS chances. Just food for thought i suppose.
Wildarmsjecht
Member
I backed the hell up out of this.
Positives
- demonstrated that there seems to be quite a bit of gamers out there who want Shenmue back.
- 29 bucks for what might end up being a $40-60 game. Good savings.
- the fact that the kickstarter CONTINUES to increase might allow for a re-release of 1&2 to come out which would do wonders to get people involved in the story.
- sailors
- we talk often of games long gone, and the repeated templates of the last couple of Generation. 3 kickstarter so far have been able to prove to an investor (whether it be publisher or super rich guy #4) that gamers still love the games that resonated heavily with them. The games that are still discussed today and have undoubtedly been labeled as a classic. The games that we wish existed still. The kickstarter allowed those same investors to then put their full wait of cash or whatever behind the developer vision and have the game made. Developers came to us, to say "I need your help. I want to keep making the games you love. I need to prove to the people that have the possibility to make that happen, that YOU, my audience, wants this. Help me get to this SMALL fraction of the actual cost to prove to them that they should then put the rest of the money in so I can share this game with you."
There's a reason that some games seem very similar year after year. It's a tried and true template that makes money and can support the heavy cost that comes with game development. To deviate from what has worked over the last 2 gens is a risk and a potential money sink. Boyes said it best. It's easy to say you want something behind a wall of anonymity on a forum. If you put your money where your impassioned mouth about a franchise is, then we'll help make it happen.
Quite frankly, I'm all for more of this. If this is a way for publishers to realize that they can deviate from the same old designs and bring back some of the core favorites from great developers and varied ideas, then great. Maybe we won't need Kickstarter in the future for this. But right now, its helping.
Wild ARMs...pls.
Positives
- demonstrated that there seems to be quite a bit of gamers out there who want Shenmue back.
- 29 bucks for what might end up being a $40-60 game. Good savings.
- the fact that the kickstarter CONTINUES to increase might allow for a re-release of 1&2 to come out which would do wonders to get people involved in the story.
- sailors
- we talk often of games long gone, and the repeated templates of the last couple of Generation. 3 kickstarter so far have been able to prove to an investor (whether it be publisher or super rich guy #4) that gamers still love the games that resonated heavily with them. The games that are still discussed today and have undoubtedly been labeled as a classic. The games that we wish existed still. The kickstarter allowed those same investors to then put their full wait of cash or whatever behind the developer vision and have the game made. Developers came to us, to say "I need your help. I want to keep making the games you love. I need to prove to the people that have the possibility to make that happen, that YOU, my audience, wants this. Help me get to this SMALL fraction of the actual cost to prove to them that they should then put the rest of the money in so I can share this game with you."
There's a reason that some games seem very similar year after year. It's a tried and true template that makes money and can support the heavy cost that comes with game development. To deviate from what has worked over the last 2 gens is a risk and a potential money sink. Boyes said it best. It's easy to say you want something behind a wall of anonymity on a forum. If you put your money where your impassioned mouth about a franchise is, then we'll help make it happen.
Quite frankly, I'm all for more of this. If this is a way for publishers to realize that they can deviate from the same old designs and bring back some of the core favorites from great developers and varied ideas, then great. Maybe we won't need Kickstarter in the future for this. But right now, its helping.
Wild ARMs...pls.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Really some of you are looking at this the wrong way but outside of what been said already I want the publishers to take this a step further (because who ever said Kickstarter was exclusive to Indies) and Kickstart......LOCALIZATION!!!
Yes that's right you heard me they should Kickstart localizing games we would otherwise never get.
That Phantasy Star Online 2 from SEGA I'm still waiting on? That Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V Tag Force Special from Konami that we will never get? or that Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth I still hope we will get one day from Bandai?
Yeah we haven't gotten any of those titles because Japanese Publishers don't think we are a viable market in the West for those titles. So how about they Kickstart for localizing those games and they can launch a Campaign to either:
A-Measure interest for the title in the West
B-Turn the campaign into a glorified Pre-Order system so at the very least they will be making the money they spend on localization back.
Yes that's right you heard me they should Kickstart localizing games we would otherwise never get.
That Phantasy Star Online 2 from SEGA I'm still waiting on? That Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V Tag Force Special from Konami that we will never get? or that Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth I still hope we will get one day from Bandai?
Yeah we haven't gotten any of those titles because Japanese Publishers don't think we are a viable market in the West for those titles. So how about they Kickstart for localizing those games and they can launch a Campaign to either:
A-Measure interest for the title in the West
B-Turn the campaign into a glorified Pre-Order system so at the very least they will be making the money they spend on localization back.
I really wish people who have no idea how games are made won't post about how they think games are made...
This implies that there's no risk
TheSlySoul
Member
I am going to assume the game is at least $10 million and the $2 was to convince Sega to put up the funds for the game.
We all know Sega's budget isn't the greatest right now and flops like Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric didn't help.
We all know Sega's budget isn't the greatest right now and flops like Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric didn't help.
Game isn't made by Sega at all.
Sega was paid for the rights to make a sequel.
Investements are all made by Yu Suzuki's own company and Sony.
The biggest factor in your month to month burn rate is employer salary. Ue4 wont help there.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Sure. But I think the issue here is one of either confusion or fundamental disagreement about how Kickstarter is supposed to function. Personally, I think I'm mostly ok with it being used as a tool to supplement funding and/or gauge interest. But I don't think people are taking crazy pills just because they might disagree that, ideally, Kickstarter would not be used in such a way.
I think when Kickstarter launched, many people saw it as a way to bypass the traditional publisher model. You know, this game was rejected by the beancounters at Lame Co. and now is your chance to show them how wrong they are by funding it ourselves! We'll make this happen ourselves!
Oh... wait, the corporate fat cats were always the real muscle behind this and I'm not actually funding the game necessarily but just serving to mitigate risk? Well, that's less in the spirit of what I thought this was supposed to be doing...
The above is not how I feel, but I do think that's how some feel. The slippery slope concern is that one day we're going to wake up and there's going to be a Call of Duty or an Assassin's Creed Kickstarter and we're going to have to come to terms with agreeing upon whether or not crowdfunding should be open to everything big or small, or if it should be reserved for titles/ideas that have struggled in the past to obtain funding via traditional avenues.
AstroNut325
Member
I have a dream too... That one day there will be another Skies of Arcadia!
Regardless, very happy for the Shenmue fans. I say this as someone who thought a Shenmue kickstarter would fail to reach one million USD.
Regardless, very happy for the Shenmue fans. I say this as someone who thought a Shenmue kickstarter would fail to reach one million USD.
The rise of Anti-FundGAF is upon us! If things are funded the way that they would have done it, it is ethically and morally repugnant and needs to be stopped!
All the failing Kickstarters will look up and shout "Fund us"... and Anti-FundGAF will look down and whisper... "No"!
All the failing Kickstarters will look up and shout "Fund us"... and Anti-FundGAF will look down and whisper... "No"!
Audible Phonetics
Member
There is always risk in any investment. But what Sony stands to gain outweighs the risk. And clearly they hit it out the park by the response on kickstarter.
Laevateinn
Member
We need a SegaStarter.
It does if it cuts the months. The most important thing about good engines and toolsets is efficiency. The easier it is for the staff to implement things and to correct them, the more time is saved. Bad tool chains and inefficient project management tools result in wasted time, redundant work, and that translates into more months of work and higher development costs!
Those who feel like the bolded are those who fundamentally do not understand how kickstarter works. Whose fault is that?
The true spirit of kickstarter is to kickstart funding (or completely fund) projects. Its not big corp vs little guy or any of this nonsense. Anyone who felt like they were playing hero and Sony just snatched their cape away... well those people were being delusional anyway.
They have already announced a 2-year dev cycle.
The reality of the situation is this: no one is going finance a game that isn't viable to succeed. The 2 million dollars alone won't make that much of a diffrence. The real function of it was to demonstrate to investors whether there was an interest from the consumers. Sure, it's not pretty, but considering the options on the table, this is without a doubt the best shot we got. Without a major publisher, this game would never be made. Yu Suzuki believed in it and the fans spoke up. Now, we're getting Shenmue 3.
I'm thankful for that.
I'm thankful for that.
Theonik
Member
Hey UE4 is free so where are my free AAA games? Fucking greedy developers!
Edit:
See: Shenmue.
Partially possible because they don't have to build a new engine and toolset and have access to modern project management tools.
This is such a mystery to me. I can only guess that Sony has the physical publication rights in exchange for their contribution to the project, and...
1) Can't/won't give physical copies to the kickstarter in order to maintain its viability at retail, because stores might not stock it otherwise.
2) Sony has some standards about the amount of content that they'll put on a physical release vs. a digital release, and unless the game ends up with a high enough budget to make it a retail-level release, they won't publish it physically.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Right. Yeah. I'm mostly there. But I do understand questioning where to draw the line (assuming we need to draw the line at all) in terms of whether or not a project should utilize crowdfunding. Not to pick on the franchise unfairly, but do you think that Activision should Kickstart next year's Call of Duty? That's not a rhetorical question either. I honestly don't know how I'd answer it.
Right, but it's a projection made knowing that they will be using UE4. I don't think we should dismiss that it is a factor. If they were to try developing their own tools from scratch to make the game, it would add significant cost and development time to the project.
I think a better question is could they. The highest funded game on Kickstarter is listed as bloodstained and they still needed to secure additional investments eve with 5.5 million. So there's no way cod or ass Creed could fully fund themselves with Kickstarter and even if they did one for 2 million it would seem negligible in the grand scheme of things.
qa_engineer
Member
I wasnt disagreeing, the originals began development sometime in 1997 and didnt finish releasing until 2001.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Right. They couldn't fully fund it. The target would most definitely be some negligible amount in the grand scheme of things. But the question is would them launching a $2 million (for example) Kickstarter seem sleazy?
Although its not the exact same thing, my answer still wouldn't change.
If Activision crowdfunds the next Call of Duty and people pledge their hard-earned money towards it (even if I chose not to), I would have no issue with that whatsoever.
I probably wouldn't put 1 cent towards a Call of Duty Kickstarter but I would never look at those who did as:
-Ruining the industry
-Duped
-Ethically wrong
-Morally devoid
Every time you buy a game, you are investing. The people who contributed to the Kickstarter are merely willing to invest more than the people who did not.
I'm being completely honest when I say I would have no problem if every single game at E3 used Kickstarter to gauge interest and do initial funding. And if that idea were to fail miserably, we would never see it again. But if it were to succeed, then hello future of gaming funding.
Either way, i'm not mad.
It would depend on why they're doing it. Of course I also can't come up with a reason why they would.
I really hope they do a HD version of I and II also.
Not many folks have access to the first two games or systems to play them on these days.
Edit: Why are people mad about the game being on Kickstarter so much? I'd rather see people put money there instead of into Gamestop's pre-order account
Not many folks have access to the first two games or systems to play them on these days.
Edit: Why are people mad about the game being on Kickstarter so much? I'd rather see people put money there instead of into Gamestop's pre-order account
Theonik
Member
I'd love to see them try.
Well, to be fair; they have probably already secured those funds in their initial capital investment, so the money should largely be going towards the game. But yes, especially for starting a new proper company $2m is nothing, which is why a lot of other large KS outsource the development to an established studio.
Yeah, the term Kickstarter was chosen specifically to mean that. Anything whose Kickstarter goal being met leads to bigger and better things has been properly kickstarted. I don't have a problem with publishers offloading stuff to Kickstarter. in this case, this is Yu's project, Sony is just supporting him.
RichiRamjag
Member
Exactly, this lets us, the consumer decide what we want to fund. I'd never fund call of duty, but there is nothing wrong if people do.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Yeah. I'm not going to pretend that I put a lot of time into this thought exercise. I just threw that out there after a moment of thinking "OK, what would be the poster child for a game that almost everyone would agree doesn't need crowdfunding to be be funded?"
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