EA, MS, and Activision don't have the leverage or the games that Sony does..
But if Sony's royalties on PC are 20% compared to Steam's 30 percent a 70 dollar game could be sold on the PS Store for 60 dollars and still have a more profitable margin, not to mention boosting your profit on the PS5 version.
Sony also has the ability to throw free games at people just to get them to download the launcher, not to mention PS+ membership if it ends up including Crunchyroll.
200 million people on EGS since 2018 suggests otherwise, but sure go on tell me how much you know about the market based on your own biases.
#2 They don't have leverage on PC, they have PSN... do you know how leverage works? Sony can offer companies discounts on PSN on PS4/5 to support game sales on PSN on PC.
Imagine Capcom sells 10 million copies of Resident Evil 4 Remake on PS5 and PC. If Sony promises 20% royalties across PSN instead of 30, Capcom can make 560 million dollars instead of 490 million dollars. That's 70 million reasons to want to have your game on PSN instead of Steam.
Most of EAs games are generic trash, and I doubt their PC sales are nearly as high as their console sales. I'll have to take a look at their financial reports and see if they have a breakdown.
Is that higher than what the bigger publishers are currently paying? It gets down to 20% so not sure this is appealing for publishers
I'd agree with you with this. The only reason Epic is losing money is because of they are literally paying publishers for exclusivity.
I don't think a PC store front for Sony would be a losing end for them. Maybe not as big as steam but it will be profitable and will only gain traction as time goes by.
That's not saying I'd like it to happpen. I'd prefer if Sony keeps their games exclusive to Playstation just like Nintendo. But I also recognize that them releasing games to PC would hardly diminish the playstation brand.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30...rketplace-revenue-split-new-rules-competitionThey're currently paying 30%
That will remain the case for the first $10 million in sales a game maker or publisher earns. For all sales between $10 million and $50 million, the split goes to 25 percent. And for every sale after the initial $50 million, Steam will take just a 20 percent cut.
They're currently paying 30%
How many Sony IPs are bigger in terms of annual sales than FIFA or Call of Duty? Both are on Steam.
This is ignorance speaking, because Steam already does 20% for big publishers when their games generate over $50 million revenue. Capcom's PC games on Steam are pretty much already at 20% royalties.
Aside from the fact that no PC Gamer will pay for online play solely for PS first party titles, where are they going to get the free games to give out when their PC library isn't deep?
200 million people, with a massive chunk being there to redeem free games. MAUs are an entirely different story.
They spent billions to even get that userbase.
So basically lose out on console revenue to subsidize a PC store that nobody will use.
Any benefit they get from paying only 20% royalties on PSN would be wiped out by their PC sales catering in sales.
EA makes some of the best selling games in the industry, and while their PC sales aren't as high as their console sales, you can absolutely say the same thing for Sony too.
You clearly are out of touch with the market
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30...rketplace-revenue-split-new-rules-competition
I am struggling with the argument if that key factor is wrong
Those games sold what they did because they were on Steam. See EGS year end sales for reference. Or any publisher that left and came back to huge sales increases.
You also don't seem to know that Steam is just the place the key is activated. You can buy official keys from 3rd party usually 20%+ off day one.
What game do you believe isn't hitting that 20% level or even the 25% level.Initial sales are 30%, I'm glad you're ignoring that, but great.
It absolutely is not a fallacy. Your whole premise is that Sony should do this because they'll make the most money. You're completely ignoring that PC gamers have no incentive to move. They'll just not buy Sony games on PC before they move away from Steam.
Sony's long term strategy is no different than what they're doing right now. Trickle older games to PC after sales slow down on console so that they don't hurt their console business.
They will not make more with a PC storefront because they literally could not move people away from Steam if they tried. PC gamers do not have any reason to trust that Sony will do a better job for them than Valve. Epic Games has been burning money for years with one of the biggest games in the world trying to win people over and they're not even making a dent. Sony doesn't have a game with the popularity of Fortnite to dangle as a carrot to entice people. Nobody is leaving Steam for God of War.
What game do you believe isn't hitting that 20% level or even the 25% level.
Also you did ignore the fact it was tiered and I pointed it out that it gets down to 20%. Post #147.
Sony should release a pc launcher but you are making up random and inaccurate things to justify it.
Using the above calculations, and assuming Sony would charge $10 more per game on their own platform (since they wouldn't be competing with Steam/Valve and could charge what they wanted) would still result in Sony making less money on their own platform than they would by releasing their game on Steam. And by the way, I am being extremely generous by saying that Sony would even reach half of the sales they would otherwise reach on Steam. You don't seem to understand the magnitude of the Steam store or why people use it. Microsoft had every advantage on their own OS and still isn't even a competitor for Steam.
- PC gamers tend to hate publishers who try to force them to choose their platform by using leverage (such as exclusivity agreements).
- Additionally, Epic Games Store literally gives away 2+ games for free every single week. If they can't tear Steam gamers away from Valve with that kind of leverage then there is little to nothing that Sony is going to be able to do.
- Sony will generate more revenue by releasing their games on Steam. If 2 million people would have bought the game on Steam while only 1 million people buy the game on Sony then that additional savings of 30% still means that Sony made less money than they would have if the game released on Steam.
- Steam
- 2,000,000 sales at $60/sale, with 30% taken off of that would equate to $84,000,000.
- Sony
- 1,000,000 sales at $70/sale would equate to $70,000,000.
PC gamers don't want the stupidity of what you're selling. In fact, we find your fanboyism rather repugnant. Keep that off of our platform.
I would assume that Sony's approach to exclusivity on PC would mirror their exclusive deals on PS5.
Right now you see games that are console exclusive to PS5 but still come out on PC, I think that would continue, but Sony would extend their deal to exclusivity on their PC Store at least a timed one.
If Square Enix does end up purchased by Sony, a big part of making that worth it would be to ensure they're getting 100% of Square Enix's revenue rather than the 30% of PS4/5 revenue they currently get from Square Enix and the 70% of revenue that Square Enix gets from Steam.
I think the Bungie purchase may have been a precursor to that.
If Sony can have a successful GaaS game or two like Fortnite, then there is a chance they might make their own PC store front.
I think that would be the catalyst.
Re the valve revenue cut, you don't need to be post anything more than the steamwork post on the revenue split.We're not fully aware of the breakdown of many contracts. I wasn't posing an ACTUAL contract here.
Yes, but that Valve royalties for most big games is not 30%. Its going to be closer to 20%. Can Sony go much below that? Who knows.My point was that Sony can match/undercut Valve's royalties and can leverage PS4/5 royalties to induce 3rd party support.
Re the valve revenue cut, you don't need to be post anything more than the steamwork post on the revenue split.
Yes, but that Valve royalties for most big games is not 30%. Its going to be closer to 20%. Can Sony go much below that? Who knows.
Sony can and should release a store. I am combating the inaccuracies in your argument. I suspect it will look a lot like the MS store in terms of policies and don't think Sony will have too many exclusives, think publishers have seen it fail with EGS.
I think that is being ignored as well. They are investing highly into GaaS.
I can't imagine they're doing that with the thought of sharing revenue directly with Steam/EGS. Sony is a platform holder not a publisher. Their entry into PC Publishing is just the beginning and I see that pisses off a lot of Steam fanboys, but it's the reality of Sony's business.
Does it mean that they'll be exclusively on their own storefront immediately? No, not necessarily, but I would be absolutely stunned if a storefront isn't their end goal. Not only is it a way to maintain their own revenue on their own games like other publishers want to do, but unlike other publishers, as I mention they are a platform holder, they want to generate revenue from other people's games.
I absolutely think they'll work their exclusive deals to their PC Storefront, I absolutely think they'll support trophy and game save syncs across PSN, I absolutely think they'll integrate PS+ into the PC storefront to generate more subscribers for their PS+. They could offer PS+ subscribers the option of their 3 free games redeemable on PlayStation or PC. They can invest in emulation and actually get value from it across PlayStation and PC.
There are many paths for them to take here, but paying 20-30% of this path to Valve probably isn't in the cards for their long term future.
But hey, I could totally be wrong.
I mentioned this. I think that's a large market that Sony should try to target, especially with their 1st party games. If Feral can get Rise of the Tomb Raider playing on Mac, most games should be able to get up and running.And while were at it. I’d like to see Mac full support.
I never said they can develop one easily, of course there will be a cost to develop it, this isn't some small company with limited funds if they want they can do it.Just because you have a high revenue, doesn't mean you can open pc launcher easily.
Pc launcher is a long term project, and money sink, if they want to compete with steam.
They can do like GOG, and enjoy the ride. But that won't get them alot of big games on their platform.
"Userbase"I never said they can develop one easily, of course there will be a cost to develop it, this isn't some small company with limited funds if they want they can do it.
And like i said before they don't need compete with steam, pc right now is a supplementary to psn they will always have psn there biggest maker, they have the luxury of moving away.
People need to stop comparing to gog and epic store, sony aren't in a position where they are gonna rely on limited audience of there pc storefront. Psn store + plus pc storefront integration will be a massive customer base, and yes they can lockdown big titles for psn and their pc storefront.
Obviously this all talk who know if they deem it worthy to do it, but steam certainly won't be the blocker.
No it really isn't they same as window store, sony actually have quality games to offer."Userbase"
Its what generates money for you. If you are going to make a pc launcher, you need to have enough userbase, which can sustain it. That means more investment on the launcher, which results in burning more money.
Your example would result windows store.
That is inevitable, and will start with their first GAAS game in 2023The only thing PC gamers want from Sony with PSN linking is cross saves and trophies.
Quality doesn't bring userbase. Also, MS games are more pc oriented, compared to your Sony high quality. Even them couldn't make their windows store attractive.No it really isn't they same as window store, sony actually have quality games to offer
They have to do like epic. You can't sustain a pc storefront with minimal userbase. Especially with drops like Sony. Or they become EA, take 2 and Ubisoft, but with less compeling games.Userbase isn't gonna come day one on pc storefrone, of course they will have to work on it. They aren't in a position like epic store giving away shit for free and burning away money.
That is just an internet meme. Bloodborne isn't gonna attract that much userbase. Plus you need to retain to those userbase and not lose them, after they finish those games.Games like Bloodborne and demons souls exclusive on their storefront will be huge and bring in people.
Essentially what windows store does. Aside of VR.I think the only way they can do it is by incentives, rather than pissing people off by 'taking things away' from others. So keep all first party games on Steam, Epic etc. but incentivise people to buy on the PS Store
Sony would have considerable power in terms of being able to do deals with publishers based on being able to offer access to both, but strategically they probably have to respect the PC players and not be dicks.
- Cross platform purchase entitlements (PC/PS5)
- Cross platform saves
- Discounts for PS+ members (basically make PS Store cheapest place to buy first party and maybe some other PC games)
- Offer PS+ catalogue
- Trophies
- Make PC store fees more attractive than competitors (and reduce PS5 if publishers offer dual entitlements i.e. make it cheaper for them to sell games on PS5 by also listing in in PC store)
- Ensure all PC games listed in the store come optimised for Dualsense
- Offer PSVR2 games on PC
Yeah to be fair I meant to put exactly that in the post, this is something MS have been doing pretty well, but even they have struggled to gain significant penetration, so it will be hard.Essentially what windows store does. Aside of VR.
That is alot of money investment. It could work, if Sony is willing to do that (they would have to lose money on the first few years)
Initial sales are 30%, I'm glad you're ignoring that, but great.
Considering the PS PLUS pc app.
Uhhhhhhhhh boy
Yeah, you don’t want that.
I think the only way they can do it is by incentives, rather than pissing people off by 'taking things away' from others. So keep all first party games on Steam, Epic etc. but incentivise people to buy on the PS Store
Sony would have considerable power in terms of being able to do deals with publishers based on being able to offer access to both, but strategically they probably have to respect the PC players and not be dicks.
- Cross platform purchase entitlements (PC/PS5)
- Cross platform saves
- Discounts for PS+ members (basically make PS Store cheapest place to buy first party and maybe some other PC games)
- Offer PS+ catalogue
- Trophies
- Make PC store fees more attractive than competitors (and reduce PS5 if publishers offer dual entitlements i.e. make it cheaper for them to sell games on PS5 by also listing in in PC store)
- Ensure all PC games listed in the store come optimised for Dualsense
- Offer PSVR2 games on PC
No it's not over. It's just that every other attempt at a PC storefront has been lazy and half baked. It's like the people running these companies don't actually play PC games in order to understand the many reasons why someone might decide to purchase games on Steam instead of elsewhere.
The moment someone gets it through their thick skull that they need to compete on features and price then they might have a fighting chance to gain some market share. Attempting to force gamers hands by removing/blocking games from Steam and and bribes have been proven to not work.
God of war delay avatar crew typing out fantasies of sabotage hoping someone at Sony is dumb enough to go along with it.
Constants drop of quality titles will bring a userbase which is what sony have proven, ms pc oriented means jack shit when they've had lacklustre releases for years as admitted by phil spencer many times.Quality doesn't bring userbase. Also, MS games are more pc oriented, compared to your Sony high quality. Even them couldn't make their windows store attractive.
This is such a silly take, you want sony to follow epics strategy which failed badly? No they don't need to follow epic, just because you have a one minded way of thinking how they can be successful on pc.They have to do like epic. You can't sustain a pc storefront with minimal userbase. Especially with drops like Sony. Or they become EA, take 2 and Ubisoft, but with less compeling games.
Sony aren't exactly releasing a game and calling it a day are they? They have proven they can release a steady stream of games and they have the most ips in development then they ever had and a lot of those will come to pc.That is just an internet meme. Bloodborne isn't gonna attract that much userbase. Plus you need to retain to those userbase and not lose them, after they finish those games.
They have multiple gaas games in development alongside their single player releases, assuming the gaas games workout they can improve on their user engagement.EA and Ubisoft have subscription service, which retains their userbase. Take 2 has Gta. Activision has COD. MS has Halo, forza, sea of theives. While Sony doesn't have long term engaging game aside of spiderman, and maybe the last of us 2.
Seems like way too much work to release like 5 games a year on.
YesYou think Sony’s PC storefront wouldn’t be lazy and half baked?
That makes no sense. They don’t need leverage. They just offer lower royalties to put games in the site.Epic royalties are lower on EGS than Steam, but they have no leverage of lower royalties on a console...