test_account
XP-39C²
Yeah, i agree with that situation, but in that case he did get his money back in the end though, so that case did end up getting solved without having to deal with chargebacks.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Sony Permanently Banning PS4 Console
- Thread starter GVA1987
- Start date
CosmicQueso
Member
Some of these posts are baffling.
Guy bought a used PS4, it was banned. Went back to the shop which exchanged it for a different PS4.
End of story.
So who cares who is "to blame" or any of this other nonsense? EB is the one that gets screwed here due to poor testing. They paid some amount of $ for the box to the person trading it in, and now cannot sell it. But that's on them for the testing.
But no one else was wronged here.
My head hurts trying to understand any kind of outrage on this at all. It's ridiculous.
Guy bought a used PS4, it was banned. Went back to the shop which exchanged it for a different PS4.
End of story.
So who cares who is "to blame" or any of this other nonsense? EB is the one that gets screwed here due to poor testing. They paid some amount of $ for the box to the person trading it in, and now cannot sell it. But that's on them for the testing.
But no one else was wronged here.
My head hurts trying to understand any kind of outrage on this at all. It's ridiculous.
How do you know it was poorly tested? How can you be sure it was banned when it was sold to them?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Thank you.
Last I knew, EB does not hook them up to the internet during trade in and try and set up a profile, do they? All I remember is them inserting discs to see if it would boot a game.
That trade-in process could take some time if so, with downloading updates, creating or signing into an account, etc..
Seriously.
ForsakenLotus
Member
I don't think Sony should ban a console, and if they do they should have protocols for this situation.
No idea, I don't think I've ever traded a console in actually.
The point though, is that there are scenarios (likely scenarios too) where this could happen, and the store (or another buyer) could not possibly test for it. If someone decides to chargeback their digital purchases because they're getting rid of the console, that console will appear to be fine for the next few weeks/months potentially.
That's obviously not even considering what you state above about the time that could be required to check a console thoroughly.
Effigenius
Member
Seriously? You cant imagine a slightly different scenario, where the offender sells the console directly to the buyer on craigslist or something? Then what? You think the seller accepts returns? Sony isnt losing anything, its digital sales being reversed. Banning consoles is way over the line.
Why are you assuming this was because of chargebacks? What if the PS4 was stolen and this is what Sony did to punish the person who stole it? There would be no account/credit card to go after in this case. We don't know details, so without that, there isn't much argument where you can place blame on Sony for this situation. This is on EB Games, and this just sounds like another thread of piling on Sony. Sure, Sony does some dumb stuff, too (2FA please), but this is a pretty open/shut case and I now I feel bad posting in this thread to continue it..
CosmicQueso
Member
Sorry, but caveat emptor if someone is buying from craigslist. On ebay, it's pretty simple, the buyer files a claim and always gets their money back. Craigslist is wild west. And the risk of things not working right comes with the low prices.
What blame? It's a write-off for EB. They took in a unit at some price and cannot resell. They chalk that up to a defectives allowance on the books and it's done. EB certainly doesn't care, companies always account for a certain % of products to be defective/returned.
Well, we can't really assume it's a chargeback. That was just me going off the common case that had been assumed/theorised a lot so far.
Again though, is you're going to talk about not making assumptions to put blame on Sony, then why would you make assumptions to put blame on EB? Sony at the very least can always control whether or not the console is banned, yet as I've detailed above, EB can't realistically vet any console at the time of purchase.
So, the console is a stolen unit... and? It's not like the original owner is going to get it back. It still just leaves the opportunity for what OP experienced. Who does it help?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Considering this is the first time we have heard of this in the 3 years about the entire console being a no go, chances are it could have been reported stolen versus simple chargebacks which is usually on an account level.
Apple does this very same thing with chargebacks versus stolen goods.
Apple does this very same thing with chargebacks versus stolen goods.
Yea, so that's much, much worse...
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I'm sure the person who was permabanned was an absolute saint to their fellow gamers and developers.
I think you mean at the time of sale? When the person that came in and sold the console to EB Games? If EB Games wants have a used console market, why can't they have the person log in to the console to prove it can? Are you saying they don't have internet access?
How will Sony know its not the person that stole the machine? I mean how CAN they?
No, I meant at the time of purchase. The chargeback can happen after the console is sold, and even if it happens before it could quite easily not have taken effect yet (for example someone in this thread mentioned how MS banned his console two months after an advised chargeback).
They don't know... but they also don't know that they are the person that stole the machine... so it's not worth the risk imo. If someone steals a console, the likelihood of it being quickly transferred to an unsuspecting owner (whilst it still appears to work) is pretty high. And it's not like the thief is gonna offer any support once the ban hits.
I'm not totally against console bans tbh. There are situations where I definitely think it's worth pursuing. If a console is modded for example, I would think preventing it accessing Live or PSN is worth the trade-offs. I just think that it's a bad idea in the event that the console can switch owners before the ban is in effect. This makes it too difficult to avoid netting unfortunate new owners that couldn't verify the incoming ban at the time.
Popsickles
Member
I think you will find it is in the terms and conditions that Sony can brick consoles if the need arises. The former owner must have done something real bad for Sony to take this action so why should the offender be able to make a new account just like that or make money on selling on the console as he broke the terms and conditions, that everyone agrees to by purchasing the machine in the first place. By bricking the console the barrier to re entry is much higher. If you don't like it then read the terms first then don't buy a Ps4
The Faceless Master
Member
sounds like EB is selling used products with no QA process.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Clearly this is not your standard 'chargeback', or the like, considering this is the first we have ever heard of this since the machine launched.
I am going with reported stolen or something way more severe than just a chargeback, since it is the most logical with how Apple and other expensive tech tied to account services are handled. More so than the 'chargeback' narrative, which was only on account level by both MSFT and Sony with every story since launch.
https://www.playstation.com/en-nz/g...g/banned-and-suspended-consoles-and-accounts/
I found your culprit...
https://leakforums.net/post-10034448#10034448
;-P
I am going with reported stolen or something way more severe than just a chargeback, since it is the most logical with how Apple and other expensive tech tied to account services are handled. More so than the 'chargeback' narrative, which was only on account level by both MSFT and Sony with every story since launch.
https://www.playstation.com/en-nz/g...g/banned-and-suspended-consoles-and-accounts/
I found your culprit...
https://leakforums.net/post-10034448#10034448
;-P
andythinkpad
Member
Why do people keep arguing it was a chargeback? How the fuck do you charge back a physical console in the US?
I understand if it's a chargeback of a digital game. And in that case Sony can refund the money and disable the game purchase. If you buy a PS4 from Target or whatever, and it's not working, credit card companies don't fucking chargeback for you, they will tell you to send back for refund or send back for repair. I have done chargeback once for a hotel charge. I had to fill out a form. It's not a simple phone call. And the credit companies always tell you to first resolve it with a vendor. "I am sorry Chase, but Sony doesn't want to repair the PS4. Therefore I want my money back" No your cc won't take that as an excuse.
Have anybody in the US actually chargeback a console purchase personally? If you did speak up. If not stop this chargeback nonsense. This was clearly a stolen console.
I understand if it's a chargeback of a digital game. And in that case Sony can refund the money and disable the game purchase. If you buy a PS4 from Target or whatever, and it's not working, credit card companies don't fucking chargeback for you, they will tell you to send back for refund or send back for repair. I have done chargeback once for a hotel charge. I had to fill out a form. It's not a simple phone call. And the credit companies always tell you to first resolve it with a vendor. "I am sorry Chase, but Sony doesn't want to repair the PS4. Therefore I want my money back" No your cc won't take that as an excuse.
Have anybody in the US actually chargeback a console purchase personally? If you did speak up. If not stop this chargeback nonsense. This was clearly a stolen console.
Ninja Scooter
Member
People mention chargeback because a chargeback can cause your account to be banned/suspended, not because someone chargeback'd the console itself.