It's heavily rumored, but I wouldn't call something that doesn't play games a game console.
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SONY set to JUNK status
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It's heavily rumored, but I wouldn't call something that doesn't play games a game console.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
Once Japanese government debt starts becoming a serious issue (well, it already is an issue, so once it slams into a wall I guess), they won't even have to worry about a high yen. All of the money printing that they'll need to do in order to pay debt obligations will result in the yen dropping fast.
Sony is a fantastic gaming company, willing to back many interesting and niche titles like Journey, Heavy Rain/Beyond, etc, with huge budgets for such arthouse games. They also create a variety of consistently entertaining franchises. It would be a HUGE loss if their gaming division were negatively impacted by this. Here's hoping they pull through without compromising what makes their games division great.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Did you seriously just post that Japan doesn't matter much in the area where handhelds are dominant.
thehypocrite
Member
I posted that it means little if the majority of your profits are made outside japan, which is the case for Nintendo and Sony.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Japan has been the backbone and only surviving part of Sony's handheld game sector for the last four years, but yeah, it definitely doesn't matter for the Vita.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
The people saying "Sony is doing fine" are talking about the gaming division.
It's generally assumed that Kaz is going to do what it takes in order to preserve the gaming division's profitability while ridding itself of unprofitable bloat in other divisions (TV, etc).
And while it's true that in Japan the Vita/3DS gap is wide, the 3DS is suffering in non-Japanese markets (not to the same degree as Vita), but they most certainly are the recipients of the trending downward pressure on handheld markets.
thehypocrite
Member
If Japan was all that mattered we would have received a PSP-5000 targeted to Japan. Sony decided to make the Vita trying to court western development and markets. Likewise with Nintendo and the 3dsxl, they're aiming to the western audiences.
Father_Brain
Banned
Well, at least Nintendo is chasing a market that actually exists, rather than trying in vain to get dudebros back into handheld gaming.
The only reason Valve is prototyping a SteamBox is because of their fears that Microsoft will lock them out of the PC market. Even then a PC will be able to play everything a SteamBox could and more. If Valve thought that they can get away with just supporting the PC and Mac with Steam, they would continue doing so.
I was responding to the assertion that Sony's healthier divisions would be able to save the company as a whole. It could be done, but I don't see much evidence of them actually doing it. They're still the same big, lumbering behemoth they've always been.
It's only been six months, but he doesn't seem to have done anything transformative. He laid out some very general plans when he first got promoted and did the standard new CEO thing where he got rid of a bunch of people, but I haven't seen him do anything radically different. Maybe he's put these things in motion and it will take a while for them to manifest, I don't know. But investors and analysts don't seem to think so.
Mobile definitely seems to be taking a slice of the 3DS pie, but don't forget that 3DS is still ahead of DS, launch aligned. That will almost certainly change in the coming months, but we can't say that it's already happened because it hasn't.
thehypocrite
Member
True, however the question if its big enough is still to be responded. Seeing Nintendo last quarterly reports it seems that Nintendo misread the size of the existing market, while Sony failed to create the one they wanted.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Add a vita tablet SKU and I agree with everything you said. That's the only way I can see the platform being revitalized, but it's far from certain.
I don't think many people want a tablet with a bunch of buttons and joysticks and triggers on it. It's not a problem for Nintendo because they're not selling a device that's actually meant to be mobile. But I doubt people would see a Vita tablet as this perfect combination of an iPad and a handheld. They'd view it as a Vita with a bigger screen. For the same reason, i don't think a Vita phone would work either.
I also don't think attaching the Vita name to other devices would do them any favors.
I also don't think attaching the Vita name to other devices would do them any favors.
thehypocrite
Member
You're aware that that's not the only way to do it ?
Besides engineers are paid to solve problems and deal with challenges, just because that's the way Nintendo did it that way makes it rge best solution either.
You're suggesting some sort of accessory that clips onto the sides of the tablet or something? Because that's already been done. You could say that the Vita ecosystem would help it succeed, but that ecosystem is pretty weak at the moment.
For a Vita tablet to succeed, it would have to be marketed as a tablet first. Then, a large enough userbase would act as a Trojan horse for getting Vita devices into people's hands. But I posit that slapping the Vita name on even the best tablet is a kiss of death.
Microsoft lost hundreds of millions last gen. How would you say that the console market is trending downwards? Microsoft and Nintendo have both made way more money this gen. Sony and MS had VERY healthy years last year (in terms of console sales), 6 years after the consoles launched. If you count PS2 sales this gen, which you should for your argument, that adds another ~15 million.
You're acting like I'm the only one with this outlook. I may have been off on my initial point, as 2008 was probably the high point for the console market, but it's hard to argue that it hasn't been sliding since then. Again, we'll have to wait until the next Playstation and Xbox release to see if this drop-off is permanent, but I think it is to some extent. And Microsoft losing money last generation has no place in this discussion, as that was a calculated maneuver to break into the market and quell Sony's living room dominance.
The numbers just don't back up your assertion. If it's just down to some unquantifiable "console sales don't mean everything", I can't really argue with you, but the sector is more profitable and more widespread than at any time in its existence.
I mentioned microsoft losing money on the xbox because you said
Selling consoles at a loss was part of their business model. It was not an unforeseen cost.
I think you're conflating the fact that this gen is wrapping up with some sort of unhealthy slide in the console space.
thehypocrite
Member
Nope. For a tablet you make it a good tablet 1st and have an optional Vita dock with HDMI or miracast tech with extra battery and upscaler to HD for an extra 100 bucks with a Bluetooth controller bundle. Standard the phone should emulate all buttons with a virtual joystick and offer the vita dock as compatible with smart phones and tables alike. Push the HD/HQ games and the play anywhere on your terms and the most renowned IP, also push the .99$ games as well. this is just what I can think off, but there's multiple ways to prepare a chicken.
Retail spending has been down significantly YoY for a while now. And I don't think DD can account for very much of it. I edited it into my last post, but we'll have to wait until the new Playstation and Xbox release to see if the drop is permanent. I think it is to some extent, though.
I never said it was unforeseen. I implied that it helped uptake to release cheaper, more powerful consoles rather than selling them at or above cost.
I'm no expert, but I think they would have to make some serious hardware concessions in order to create a tablet that could easily play all Vita games. They'd either have to include the Vita guts in the tablet or iterate on the current Vita chipset to produce something that's still bleeding edge at the time of its release. Even if they surmounted this obstacle, I don't think people would buy it. Sony would have to do two things they've been unable to do thus far - 1) release a tablet or phone that's a runway success, and 2) successfully market something with the Vita name on it as something people will buy.
not_so_special
Banned
this is bad for gamign is not gaming will stop
sony going the route of sega its a fucking disaster for the consumer and the market,i want big players on this industry who fight themselves for the final user
Good points. DD has huge growth potential though, and MS is making money hand over fist on xbox live gold. I guess we'll just have to wait until next gen. I really hope that consoles don't die out. I have a capable PC, but I still much prefer console gaming.
thehypocrite
Member
So you're saying is possible? good. Also I disagree with the premise that it will be Vita Tablet or a Vita Smartphone, It has to be a good xperia tablet or smartphone that also plays great games, vita games, with a compatible dock that makes it work like a traditional console. This will allow Sony to use the telephone companies distribution channels and subsidies. The upside is huge, I think they should aim for it, as it will allow them to innovate in that arena.
Well at least vita seems to be able to play multiplats from 360 or ps3 while wiiu does not seem to have a competent port yet
AgentChris
Member
If Sony were to cut 90% of it's TV division would they make a profit?
Vita games run at 960x544, and a lot of the imperfections are hidden by the smaller screen size. Wii U games run at 1280x720, or nearly double the number of pixels, and its games have to be made to look good even on giant screens. In addition, a lot of the Wii U's processing power is tied up in streaming the image to the tablet with no noticeable latency. A little more effort on the part of third parties and the framerate issues would be nonexistent. I don't think anyone with intimate knowledge of both platforms could possibly say the Vita is more powerful.
*so you're saying there's a chance.gif*
thehypocrite
Member
Yes.
But they're understandably hesitant to do so because they're heavily invested in that market.
I don't see how not. They are close to a profit right now and its there biggest loser. They can't just say fuck it and pull out though. It'll take years to wind down and I believe its gonna happen.
To that point, the Wii and DS were responsible for something like 99% of the growth of the console industry at one point. And the declines of the Wii and the DS are responsible for 1001% of the decline at retail at this point. When you have something that fell as hard and was abandoned as quickly as the Wii was, it's going to effect everyone's bottom line. The stability of both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 at their ages is what's astounding to me.
But if you take the view that Nintendo won't be able to match the revenue they earned during the "Blue Ocean" period, and you think that Sony is really going to bow out, of course the damage from that would be permanent. But it wouldn't necessarily mean that the public at large is uninterested in home video game consoles.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I think between MS and Sony, it's going to be very interesting to see what PS4 will be like.
No, because they would still have to pay down the debt that is owed by the TV division. Also, they would have to sell things at pennies to the dollar. It would most likely make their losses worse.
It's considered a bad investment whenever it drops below BBB-.
Profit is revenue minus cost. They don't have many short-term liabilities so most of that debt would not add to the costs. And cutting 90% of the tv business doesn't really mean having a fire sale. They've already cut a good bit of the TV business down YoY, which is why the TV business cut 2/3rds of their losses. There's almost no way that cutting more of the division would somehow drive profit down. Quite the opposite.
Depends on how stubborn/arrogant the higher ups are.
If they have the balls to make the hard calls on TVs and other losing divisions, they should be fine.
You can't tell me that billions of dollars in investment carry no significant liabilities, otherwise they wouldn't be in this mess. You can't just wave a magic wand and get rid of tens of billions of dollars in investment/debt. Especially in a business which doesn't make money.
What are you even talking about? Do you know what profit is? Do you know what a short term liability is? Do you know what a long-term liability is? Do you know which one is calculated into profit?
That would plug ALOT of the holes in there sinking ship
Steve Jobs saved Apple when they were nearly bankrupt, also Ghosn who saved Nissan, it's pretty interesting.
GrandHarrier
Member
Shh. Just close your eyes, Sony. I promise it won't hurt.
FatalMuzza
Banned
Its time for Samsung to take over as a console player. They have the R&D and the cash to brute force a success like MS did. Sony's time in the lime light is nearing an end.
I know that Sony carries over $13 billion in short term liabilities which is not small. It's at the highest levels in the company's history.
Fuck that, no more playstation would be the worst thing to ever happen to console gaming. Worse than Sega closing up. Hell it would be worse than Nintendo closing up shop for me.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Sega closing was worse, at least in what properties is meant for.
Samsung would be even worse hardwarewise than Sony. No thanks.
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