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[SpinningBirdKick]

Steve Jobs saved Apple when they were nearly bankrupt, also Ghosn who saved Nissan, it's pretty interesting.

Jobs saved Apple by approaching Bill Gates for a bail out. There was something in it for Gates by having his products on the Mac to keep another revenue stream flowing.

Steve Jobs:
I called up Bill and said, “I’m going to turn this thing around.” Bill always had a soft spot for Apple. We got him into the application software business. The first Microsoft apps were Excel and Word for the Mac. So I called him and said, “I need help.” Microsoft was walking over Apple’s patents. I said, “If we kept up our lawsuits, a few years from now we could win a billion-dollar patent suit. You know it, and I know it. But Apple’s not going to survive that long if we’re at war. I know that. So let’s figure out how to settle this right away. All I need is a commitment that Microsoft will keep developing for the Mac and an investment by Microsoft in Apple so it has a stake in our success.

I doubt there will be any big fish willing to dig deep into their pockets for Sony.

This is especially true as Sony like to use their own proprietary formats where ever possible which means there are fewer opportunities for external companies to benefit from being a good Samaritan to Sony in their time of need.

History is littered with big companies going out of business, its the rule rather than the exception.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Jobs saved Apple by approaching Bill Gates for a bail out. There was something in it for Gates by having his products on the Mac to keep another revenue stream flowing.




I doubt there will be any big fish willing to dig deep into their pockets for Sony.

This is especially true as Sony like to use their own proprietary formats where ever possible which means there are fewer opportunities for external companies to benefit from being a good Samaritan to Sony in their time of need.

History is littered with big companies going out of business, its the rule rather than the exception.

Sony are way bigger than Apple was at that time. Not an apple to apple comparison at all, excuse the pun.

 

[FishyJoe]

Sony are way bigger than Apple was at that time. Not an apple to apple comparison at all, excuse the pun.

Not being a bloated mess allowed Apple to turn around all the faster.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Not being a bloated mess allowed Apple to turn around all the faster.

But also meant they needed a handout to stay alive, as stated.

 

[SpaceBridge]

Noob question: but if Sony went 100% gaming (like Nintendo) would it save the company?

 

[lenovox1]

Noob question: but if Sony went 100% gaming (like Nintendo) would it save the company?

Sony doesn't make big money fron gaming anymore. Now if they went 100% insurance, then we're talking.

 

[FishyJoe]

But also meant they needed a handout to stay alive, as stated.

They did get a relatively small investment from Microsoft. I think having Office remain on the Mac helped them more than the money.

 

[SpaceBridge]

Sony doesn't make big money fron gaming anymore. Now if they went 100% insurance, then were talking.

How so? I thought the playstation division was the one division making money.

 

[DBT85]

Noob question: but if Sony went 100% gaming (like Nintendo) would it save the company?

It wouldn't be feasible at present I imagine not with the losses they are bound to take on the PS4 launch hardware.

However they have no need to do that, they have healthy sections. One arm is really healthy, a bit of a leg, a little of the organs are doing ok. Just a huge chunk of gangrenous limb that is the TV division and other smaller money sinks.

 

[Derrick01]

Noob question: but if Sony went 100% gaming (like Nintendo) would it save the company?

Then they would have to act like Nintendo and make joke hardware and focus on making a ton of profit on everything made. They take expensive risks now because they have one of the biggest companies on earth in terms of assets to offset some/most of it and focus on the long term.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

There was a good post in the OT section, I forgot who made it or what thread it was in so I can't search for it, but it was a good explanation/analysis of why Sony isn't in as big a danger as people think they are.

None the less, no one should worry about the PS4.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I honestly think there is a bit of internet doom and gloom in this thread.

can someone break down why are people in this thread are considering sony to suddenly be facing bankrupcy?

I can see therm dying a slow protracted death but i dont think we will need to worry if sony will be still be here in a few years time.

 

[Oersted]

How so? I thought the playstation division was the one division making money.

In chronical order:

Sony's Gaming Division Posts 2.8 Billion Dollar Loss

Sony's Q1 2012 results are grim, as gaming division loses $45 million

Sony's game division revenues fall nearly 16 percent in Q2 2012

 

[Chuck Norris]

In chronical order:

Those links you keep posting group the gaming division in with the TV division, which has widely been understood as what is burning a hole through Sony's pocket

 

[lenovox1]

How so? I thought the playstation division was the one division making money.

(*Looks it up*)

The Gaming division profited $29 million last quarter, which would make it one of the lowest earning divisions. They sold $1.9 billion worth of stuff though.

Sony's most recent money sinks are Mobile Products & Communicatons (phones and tablets) and Home Entertainment and Sound (TVs, amps, consumer video and sound). They lost nearly $600 million combined for Sony last quarter.

Their insurance business made $400 million. I think that's more than all the other divisions that made a profit combined. Sony getting out of consumer electronics and media (including games) would probably be the best last resort option.

 

[Oersted]

Those links you keep posting group the gaming division in with the TV division, which has widely been understood as what is burning a hole through Sony's pocket

Typed "Sony gaming division" into a search engine. If you found more accurate numbers, feel free to share.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

How so? I thought the playstation division was the one division making money.

Maybe the situation has changed over the past several months, but Sony's financial services have been the most profitable part of their business for a while now.

 

[klapauzius]

There was a good post in the OT section, I forgot who made it or what thread it was in so I can't search for it, but it was a good explanation/analysis of why Sony isn't in as big a danger as people think they are.

None the less, no one should worry about the PS4.

Someone on the internet said that Sony is safe, it must be true.

Face the facts: Sony is near bancrupty and the gaming division makes loss since years, even if there was a liitle proit in the last quarter because they shut diwn several gaming studios and laid off employees.

 

[Ryoma-Echizen]

Should I buy Sony stocks or not??

Better get AMD ones, I don't see any strategy from Sony to overcome this.

 

[Chuck Norris]

(*Looks it up*)

The Gaming division profited $29 million last quarter, which would make it one of the lowest earning divisions. They sold $1.9 billion worth of stuff though.

Sony's most recent money sinks are Mobile Products & Communicatons (phones and tablets) and Home Entertainment and Sound (TVs, amps, consumer video and sound). They lost nearly $600 million combined for Sony last quarter.

Their insurance business made $400 million. I think that's more than all the other divisions that made a profit combined. Sony getting out of consumer electronics and media (including games) would probably be the best last resort option.

I could be wrong but I believe that loss on the mobile division was due to buying out Ericsson. In truth the mobile division is doing well and is aout fourth worldwide behind apple, google and Samsung

 

[Chuck Norris]

Someone on the internet said that Sony is safe, it must be true.

Face the facts: Sony is near bancrupty and the gaming division makes loss since years, even if there was a liitle proit in the last quarter because they shut diwn several gaming studios and laid off employees.

Sony is not near bankruptcy. But they are on a dangerous downward slope

 

[The Mana Legend]

Fuck that, no more playstation would be the worst thing to ever happen to console gaming. Worse than Sega closing up. Hell it would be worse than Nintendo closing up shop for me.

Nope, Sony would turn to purely game development and all would be right with the world. The PS3 and Vita were huge failures when compared to previous success, but the PS3 has been an amazing generation in terms of actual game development (quality-wise, their marketing has been a complete failure) for Sony.

If anything, Sony bowing out of the console market would be a good thing for them.

 

[lenovox1]

I could be wrong but I believe that loss on the mobile division was due to buying out Ericsson. In truth the mobile division is doing well and is aout fourth worldwide behind apple, google and Samsung

Oh, yeah! I probably would have caught that if I had looked at more than the numbers.

They say they would have lost 10 billion yen (about $126 million today) if they were fully consolidated at the time of the statement. They blame lagging PC sales.

 

[Derrick01]

There was a good post in the OT section, I forgot who made it or what thread it was in so I can't search for it, but it was a good explanation/analysis of why Sony isn't in as big a danger as people think they are.

None the less, no one should worry about the PS4.

I know the one you're talking about though I forgot the name of the poster too (sorry, shitty memory!). They're in fine long term shape though I'll be honest I have no idea why they just won't bail out of the TV stuff. It's been sucking them dry for years now and they still keep staying in it and putting out $25,000 TVs no one is going to buy. It's truly baffling to me when they can just leave that and solve a large amount of their whole company's problems.

 

[Averon]

I wouldn't say Sony is doing OK. They're in bad shape, but they are clawing back. They are in the least dire straights of the big Japanese CE firms. Panasonic and Sharp with love to be in Sony's shoes right now.

 

[MrCunningham]

Sony are way bigger than Apple was at that time. Not an apple to apple comparison at all, excuse the pun.

They may be bigger than Apple was then, but I think there's still some similarities between the two situations. Steve Jobs did cancel a lot if projects that were pissing away money at Apple and streamlined all their product lines. Sure Microsoft did also invest in Apple stock to keep the company afloat, but that injection of money would be meaningless without someone to get things moving into the right direction.

I think Microsoft probably did get something out of it though, they broke up their own monopoly on the OS market which probably prevented government regulation or their company from being split apart.

Sony killing every division except for their gaming division would be foolish though. If anything they need to start downsizing some of their unprofitable divisions and slim down their product lines to prevent products from competing with each other.

 

[klapauzius]

Nope, Sony would turn to purely game development and all would be right with the world.

Perhaps Naughty dog would be bought by EA or MS or Nintendo. But most Studios will simply be closed.

 

[The Shift]

Nope, Sony would turn to purely game development and all would be right with the world. The PS3 and Vita were huge failures when compared to previous success, but the PS3 has been an amazing generation in terms of actual game development (quality-wise, their marketing has been a complete failure) for Sony.

If anything, Sony bowing out of the console market would be a good thing for them.

I think they would do very well as a third party developer/publisher. Lots of IP, lots of experience and coverage from PC to console to handheld and so on. Yeah, Sony going third party would be a good thing. Probably would rate in the top 3 pubs year on year.

 

[Meelow]

Perhaps Naughty dog would be bought by EA or MS or Nintendo. But most Studios will simply be closed.

Please no.

And It's possible Naughty Dog could become an independent studio like they used to before Sony bought them.

P.S I don't even know why I said that, Sony isn't going anywhere.

 

[YoungHav]

The console war is over.

 

[Orca]

Nope, Sony would turn to purely game development and all would be right with the world. The PS3 and Vita were huge failures when compared to previous success, but the PS3 has been an amazing generation in terms of actual game development (quality-wise, their marketing has been a complete failure) for Sony.

If anything, Sony bowing out of the console market would be a good thing for them.

With all the talk in the last couple of months about how Nintendo, Microsoft, AND Sony should cut their losses bow out of the console market, you have to wonder why anyone is still in it.

Doom and gloom couldn't be wrong, could it?

 

[Stallion Free]

this is bad for gamign is not gaming will stop


sony going the route of sega its a fucking disaster for the consumer and the market,i want big players on this industry who fight themselves for the final user

Is it bad that I enjoy Sega more now that I can play their games on almost any platform of my choosing?

 

[teh_pwn]

Sony just needs to restructure and they'll be fine.

It's getting to the point where they need to ABORT all parts of the company that are not profitable. Basically keep insurance, playstation, movies, and phones, and pawn off everything else.

 

[Pranay]

I know the one you're talking about though I forgot the name of the poster too (sorry, shitty memory!). They're in fine long term shape though I'll be honest I have no idea why they just won't bail out of the TV stuff. It's been sucking them dry for years now and they still keep staying in it and putting out $25,000 TVs no one is going to buy. It's truly baffling to me when they can just leave that and solve a large amount of their whole company's problems.

The Thread which you guys are saying is "Japan electronic companies death" and the guy who posted that stuff has been active in this thread , the guy who has stella as his display pic zomg i guess is his name

 

[Pranay]

In chronical order:

I wonder why you decided to post revenue fall instead of a 29 million profit they made that quater ^_^ ?

 

[To Far Away Times]

I know the one you're talking about though I forgot the name of the poster too (sorry, shitty memory!). They're in fine long term shape though I'll be honest I have no idea why they just won't bail out of the TV stuff. It's been sucking them dry for years now and they still keep staying in it and putting out $25,000 TVs no one is going to buy. It's truly baffling to me when they can just leave that and solve a large amount of their whole company's problems.

I imagine if you have a division that loses money hand over fist that it would probably be hard to sell and you wouldn't get much in return. Plus, Sony has invested a lot in the TV industry and that's probably one of the primary industries that Sony has a lot of consumer mind share in. Long term, it might be worth it to try to turn it around.

 

[BengaBenga]

No, because they would still have to pay down the debt that is owed by the TV division. Also, they would have to sell things at pennies to the dollar. It would most likely make their losses worse.

This. And also the restructuring would cost loads for at least a couple of years. Sony should have taken restructuring serious five years ago. Now it has become much harder to save the company. Plus it's clear that there is a culture within Sony that basically prevents it from making real hard choices and shrinking down the scope of the company.

 

[herod]

The downgrade in profitability was a calculated risk that they largely ended up losing out on. As far as marketshare, I don't really think that people largely thought that Sony was going to continue to have a monopolistic hold on the industry.

Nonsense. Everything about the PS3 suggested Sony expected to still be the biggest player.

 

[Canis lupus]

In chronical order:

Look how they won't even blame tvs for the loss in the first link. They would rather die than give up their tv business.

 

[Triple U]

I know that Sony carries over $13 billion in short term liabilities which is not small. It's at the highest levels in the company's history.

Uh yeah, this is a patent lie.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/12q2_sony.pdf

Sony has 131 million in short term debt.

In chronical order:

Gaming was profitable last FY. And with the exception of Q4 2011 and Q1 2012 they have been profitable the last seven or so quarters.

Someone on the internet said that Sony is safe, it must be true.

Face the facts: Sony is near bancrupty and the gaming division makes loss since years, even if there was a liitle proit in the last quarter because they shut diwn several gaming studios and laid off employees.

Oh the irony.

 

[Triple U]

Nonsense. Everything about the PS3 suggested Sony expected to still be the biggest player.

How does this refute what I said?

 

[numble]

Uh yeah, this is a patent lie.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/12q2_sony.pdf

Sony has 131 million in short term debt.

You seem to have issues with reading documents.
You're looking at only the Financial Services division.

 

[Triple U]

You seem to have issues with reading documents.

???

Please don't keep us all in suspense.

 

[numble]

???

Please don't keep us all in suspense.

You're only looking at the Financial Services division.

 

[Triple U]

You're only looking at the Financial Services division.

Oh ok. So its 3.6bln.

Still nowhere near 11, so yeah.

 

[numble]

Oh ok. So its 3.6bln.

Still nowhere near 11, so yeah.

Please explain how you arrived at 3.6 billion.

 

[StevieP]

Its time for Samsung to take over as a console player. They have the R&D and the cash to brute force a success like MS did. Sony's time in the lime light is nearing an end.

This is astounding. Nobody in their right mind would want to get into the traditional console space right now, with the downward trend in sales that's going to happen next gen coupled with the ridiculous rising budgets? Even Samsung with their billions wouldn't be that crazy.

If Sony goes, there will be a significant void in the console market. Same as when Sega left, except at least they are still around doing... something.

 

[Triple U]

Please explain how you arrived at 3.6 billion.

Its says pretty clearly that short term debt is $3,662 million

This is astounding. Nobody in their right mind would want to get into the traditional console space right now, with the downward trend in sales that's going to happen next gen coupled with the ridiculous rising budgets? Even Samsung with their billions wouldn't be that crazy.

If Sony goes, there will be a significant void in the console market. Same as when Sega left, except at least they are still around doing... something.

huh?

 

[numble]

Its says pretty clearly that short term debt is $3,662 million

No, it says short term borrowings are $3,662 million, but that is not all that short term liabilities or debt are made of.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

This is astounding. Nobody in their right mind would want to get into the traditional console space right now, with the downward trend in sales that's going to happen next gen coupled with the ridiculous rising budgets? Even Samsung with their billions wouldn't be that crazy.

If Sony goes, there will be a significant void in the console market. Same as when Sega left, except at least they are still around doing... something.

If Sony leaves the console market, which they won't, it will be done by selling the whole division to another company, possibly Apple, Google or Samsung. PlayStation will live on to fight another day regardless of Sony's own problems as the brand is valuable.

In fact all of Sony's brands are valuable, Vaio, Bravia, PlayStation, Xperia, Walkman and basically all of them are saleable or licenceable. The right management could work wonders with that kind of strong branding, Sony's management has been incompetent for the better part of 10 years though...