• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Sony To Restructure Liverpool Studio (WipEout/Motorstorm), Halt Several Projects

Seems like Mick Hocking is having some fingers pointed at him. He's at Evolution/ is the studio group director and some are suggesting he might have had some influence.
 
The following will hurt any WipEout fan down to its heart. :(

WOZ:Colin Berry said:
An utterly **** day for all concerned. I only left 6 weeks ago and there was no inkling this might happen, so speaking to those concerned in the last 24 hours as events unfolded has been gutting.

I've no idea if any more Wipeouts will be made and to be fair, I dont care: Today a lot of GREAT and talented people lost their jobs, and all of them had contributed to Wipeout at some point in the past 15 years, busting a gut and always trying to do the best they could, countless hours, late nights, aiming for quality. Not to mention the quality F1 titles produced over the years. I do not know how many have been kept on, it seemed to be around 50% either way but I dont know for sure, numbers dont matter all I know is the the heart of the studio has pretty much been ripped out.

I am happy for those who got to keep their jobs but I am gutted for all my friends who have worked hard only to be kicked in the teeth.

Speaking to several of them this afternoon they were numb and devastated having just been told; it absolutely sucks. Sony has shot itself in the foot by doing this to its BEST european studio, and I just dont know why.

I feel privileged to have worked with so many of these talented folk and to have enjoyed some awesome times with them in and out of the office, and I sincerely hope they all find work soon, because they deserve better.
Click to expand...

*speechless* ...
 
As long as Evolution Studios is still intact, I can sleep well...

Now those Liverpool dudes should start something new, independant, multiplatform and do something awesome for everyone. Win Win situation here.
 
First there was MENACE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t98K3reeqG4

Good luck guys! Thanks. Merci.
Honestly I'm not afraid for these guys future. They are ACES.

psygnewsis.gif
 
Oneself said:
As long as Evolution Studios is still intact, I can sleep well...

Now those Liverpool dudes should start something new, independant, multiplatform and do something awesome for everyone. Win Win situation here.
Click to expand...
Not really in a country where the (financial) support for the gaming industry is decreasing; unfortunately, that may be their only option if they want to remain as developers.

Reading that quote just reminds me how harsh this industry really can be :(
 
The funny thing about Psygnosis is that a lot of their better remembered titles from the Amiga era were created by small external teams that later went on to flourish as studios in their own right.

Lemmings (and Menace and Blood Money before it) was Dave Jones and what became DMA Design and ultimately Rockstar North. Bizarre Creations boss Martin Chudley started his career with Killing Game Show (Fatal Rewind in the US), Wiz and Liz, and the first F1 game. Travellers Tales started around the same time with Leander (Galahad), Puggsy, and Mickey Mania...

Then of course there's Reflections (SOTB then Driver etc), and a bunch of other smaller developers who made a splash at one time or another...

Ian H really fathered so much of the UK development scene its unbelievable.
In hindsight I wonder what would have happened had he not pushed through the N64 version of Wipeout as that's what preciptated his departure from the company...

That said, there was no shortage of controversy in the years that followed (particularly the best not spoken about situation preceding the founding of EANW, and the legendary Bernie Ecclestone screwjob) which I think all contributed to making Liverpool something of a black sheep in the Sony UK hierarchy.

Still, based on the words and experiences of many people I know/knew at the studio the problems at Liverpool always emanated from management - something that seems sadly too common in the UK industry as a whole.

As usual though, its the hard-working and talented staff who get the bullet, so my heart goes out to those laid off. It is a sad day indeed.
 
Wow, that's really shitty. I feel terrible for everyone who lost their job - and it can't feel great to be one of the people who kept their jobs right now either. I wonder if this is the end of Wipeout.
 
Teetris said:
See I knew it, FUCK U SONY
Click to expand...

Knew what? Many people lost their jobs but the studio is still intact and there are still quite a few people there. Yes it sucks for the people that lost their job, but other people really need to stop overreacting to this.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Knew what? Many people lost their jobs but the studio is still intact and there are still quite a few people there. Yes it sucks for the people that lost their job, but other people really need to stop overreacting to this.
Click to expand...
You're seriously telling my the next Wipeout isn't affected by this?
 
Teetris said:
You're seriously telling my the next Wipeout isn't affected by this?
Click to expand...

Only Sony really knows that? I'm just saying that the studio is still there as well as many of the people that have worked there for a long time. We don't know exactly who was cut into terms of their involvement with WO. But WO is the one series that they're known for now that they don't have the F1 license, so the likelihood that you're never going to see another one is next to none.

They apparently had a few of their projects cut. Usually companies will add more people to their team when going into new projects and when those games are complete then some of those people are let go. With those games being canned you're going to have a lot of people getting their walking papers.
 
I'm curious into how costs and profits are shared between first party studios if at all. For example a game like GT5 which is going to sell multiple millions, does sales of that game cut some slack the the first party developers whom have not had a hit in some time?

If it is shared in such a way it's really no wonder Sony are allowing PD to take their time with GT5. It has to come out, be great and just sell sell sell systems and software. Pretty sure I'm correct in saying the people involved in PD include Hirai and Yoshida so to say the least that it a very important developer.
 
Why can we not have both Motorstorm and Wipeout?? They're both fuck awesome and combining the studios should have made them unstoppable.
 
Don't really understand how one can try and downplay this (unless you are a Sony fan and not a games fan). WipEout was a major factor in the early years of the PSX and is a core Sony franchise with a long history. The franchise was fumbled during the PS2 era but came back with great products during the PSP and now PS3 generation. I will sorely miss this franchise and now that there is no news on any new F-Zero games, I do not know where I will get my fix...

DAMN IT!

This franchise got everything right: the graphics, sound, gameplay and design. WipEout was the first game to fell complete to me. Everything fit perfectly to create a video game experience that was unparalleled at the time. I wish all those whom lost their jobs the best of luck and would like to say thanks for the great games that they made!
 
gofreak said:
Unless someone leaks stuff (as sometimes happens after layoffs...) we won't find out. Liverpool had no announced internal projects, so they wouldn't tell us about them now they've been canned/deferred/whatever.
Click to expand...

you know....seeing the 8 Days footage on youtube was pretty hard, being told at that time that the game would never release and all....

but I don't know if I can handle footage of canceled games from these devs.....I mean, I'm sure if it were true about "The Protector" it would probably look amazing and that would be hard to deal with..........but

GOD HELP ME if they show footage of a canceled, untitled space shooter game for the PS3.

I WOULD DIE!!! X(
 
SolidSnakex said:
Knew what? Many people lost their jobs but the studio is still intact and there are still quite a few people there. Yes it sucks for the people that lost their job, but other people really need to stop overreacting to this.
Click to expand...

Hey SSX, here's a protip. You don't need to defend every one of Sony's actions. Especially not this one.
 
jett said:
Hey SSX, seriously, back the fuck off. You don't need to defend every one of Sony's actions. Especially not this one.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between defending and pointing out that the sky isn't falling as some people are acting.
 
Dibbz said:
Why can we not have both Motorstorm and Wipeout?? They're both fuck awesome and combining the studios should have made them unstoppable.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be possible that they still do both?

Regardless, all the best wishes to those who lost their job. Talent will find its way, especially with such a brilliant track record.
 
SolidSnakex said:
There's a difference between defending and pointing out that the sky isn't falling as some people are acting.
Click to expand...

err

for a lot of the people who shaped Sony into what it is today, the sky has fallen.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Only Sony really knows that? I'm just saying that the studio is still there as well as many of the people that have worked there for a long time. We don't know exactly who was cut into terms of their involvement with WO. But WO is the one series that they're known for now that they don't have the F1 license, so the likelihood that you're never going to see another one is next to none.
Click to expand...
Well, what did the game sell? A million? I doubt they got that, if they didn't, looking at it from Sony's side, the next one is either gonna be A. Seriously under budgeted, meaning more recycling or B. Not going to be coming at all and Liverpool will now be known as the guys who make NosePet. They had to advertise in game for christ sakes
 
Sony has shot itself in the foot by doing this to its BEST european studio
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so sure about this given the recent output and lack thereof when it seemed due. It sucks for those losing jobs and I'm not laughing at him or anything, but I feel this claim might not be true as of now.
 
Galvanise_ said:
Seems like Mick Hocking is having some fingers pointed at him. He's at Evolution/ is the studio group director and some are suggesting he might have had some influence.
Click to expand...

So basically he's the guy we mention when stabbing the vodoo dolls. Nice. Will keep note.
 
KingDizzi said:
I'm curious into how costs and profits are shared between first party studios if at all.
Click to expand...

Hopefully KennyLinder could shed some light on that. IMO you'd have to assume that each studio is responsible for its own financial affairs, and keeps any profits for itself. Though all the studios are on the same side after all, so some sharing might go on.
 
SolidSnakex said:
There's a difference between defending and pointing out that the sky isn't falling as some people are acting.
Click to expand...

Here here! I'd rather people not lose their jobs, but people are over-reacting. The two studios will eventually share the same office space soon, so this is one step in that direction.
 
Kittonwy said:
Holy shit calm down. They wouldn't have to shut Liverpool down if Wipeout HD sold like gangbusters but it didn't, because the fans didn't buy it or there simply wasn't enough of a market for their games.
Indifferent2.gif
Click to expand...

Its Sony fault for not releasing it at retail.
 
this is really shitty and to those who lost your job keep your head up. you do good work and i'm sure you'll continue to do it elsewhere.

to the usual suspects defending and running damage control for Sony..... really guys? i mean, right now? really?
 
Baki said:
Its Sony fault for not releasing it at retail.
Click to expand...

The only reason I think they would have gone DD for the base game was because they knew Fury was going to be big. If the game from the beginning was the base game + Fury, it would almost certainly have been on BD and DD everywhere.
 
Massa said:
If the game didn't sell gangbusters it's not really the studio's fault, as they delivered a very well received critical success.

It's Sony's fault for either doing a poor job at marketing or reading the market wrong and approving the concept in the first place.
Click to expand...

Why is it Sony's fault when the game didn't sell because people didn't buy it? Why don't you blame the people who realized the game was a critical success and an awesome game, and still didn't buy it even though they have a PS3?

The game didn't sell well for a number of possible reasons, it could be a lack of marketing, it could be the game not being received well which is not the case here, and it could very well be the fact that there is simply no longer a market for Wipeout games, even the PSP Wipeout revival wasn't exactly pulling in massive numbers.

It's not like Sony hasn't changed their marketing approach which is way more appealing and effective now than before, but is there really much of a market for the Wipeout franchise? I'm not really sure, I bought Wipeout HD but many people did not. I think old Playstation franchises like Wipeout and Twisted Metal, while having some loyal fans that remember the series, there's just not that strength in numbers that can support those games. Liverpool needed to come up with a completely new hit because their bread and butter series just wasn't doing it anymore.

At the end of the day videogame development is a business, and the industry at its current state simply cannot support niche titles, because you're literally losing tens of millions on a commercial failure, most of the big publishers have moved away from niche or experimental titles, it was only a matter of time Sony follows that trend, this is compounded by the fact that Sony simply doesn't have a cash cow franchise that rakes in so much that it can fund other games. You have a AAA first-party title like Uncharted 2 that basically the best game of the year, which is both exceptionally polished and fun, and it can't even pull 5 million WW, what chance does another Wipeout title have? First party sales just isn't that strong and for that you have only the PS3 owners to blame.
 
offshore said:
Hopefully KennyLinder could shed some light on that. IMO you'd have to assume that each studio is responsible for its own financial affairs, and keeps any profits for itself. Though all the studios are on the same side after all, so some sharing might go on.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty much a case where Sony give each developer the cash, fixed pay and a bonus if the game sells a certain amount. The rest is all Sonys and assume they use that money to fund for furthur projects. If a game does really well the studio might get a larger budget or whatever.

For sure if there was a case where a game like GOW III sells millions and another studio like Guerrilla games struggles, Sony will make sure the latter does not go under due to the amount of money they put into the studio. This is coming from someone whom has no idea about business, a case of talking out my ass while trying to add some logic.

Studio Liverpool has not been very productive this generation, end of. Not a single retail game and one PSN title for the PS3. I'm actually suprised this did not happen sooner, sad for those whom lost their jobs but it's the bottom line at the end of the day.
 
Baki said:
Its Sony fault for not releasing it at retail.
Click to expand...

I don't know why we're under this delusion that simply by releasing it at retail it would make the game a commercial success. If you're looking for someone to blame, go on your friends list and ask each and every one of them why they didn't fucking buy the game even though it was awesome.
 
I feel sad for the people who lost their jobs. I hope Sony doesn't become like MS and destroys more of their first part studios.
 
Kittonwy said:
I don't know why we're under this delusion that simply by releasing it at retail it would make the game a commercial success. If you're looking for someone to blame, go on your friends list and ask each and every one of them why they didn't fucking buy the game even though it was awesome.
Click to expand...

Many people I know and speak to who own PS3's, don't buy PSN games. Ridiculous I know, but loads and loads just buy the discs and play them.

But yes, PS3 users are at fault.
 
Disappointing news as they are definitely one of Sony's best studios. Hopefully all the people that have been made redundant will find new employment in the very near future.
 
Galvanise_ said:
Many people I know and speak to who own PS3's, don't buy PSN games. Ridiculous I know, but loads and loads just buy the discs and play them.
Click to expand...

If the game is awesome, it should be bought, disc or PSN.
 
neverknowsbest said:
The amount of people in this thread who fail to properly comprehend the articles and news they're reading is astonishing. As is the number of people who think that Motorstorm: PR is not a great game.
Click to expand...

You should make a venn diagram of the two groups, I think there may be significant overlap.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Avalanche closes Liverpool Studio after Contraband cancellation
2
69
792
Ozriel replied
Details on Sony Bend Studio Canceled Projects
2 3
127
4K
Msamy replied
Bloober Team says it will reveal several new projects this year, including the ‘ambitious’ Project H
Opinion Game Dev 
17
386
IbizaPocholo replied
Nixxes description on Sony studio page was changed in March to highlight PC ports
4 5 6 7 8
380
2K
bender replied
  • Locked
Ci Games (studio behind Lord of the Fallen) trying to hire BluePoint devs after Sony shut down their studio
News Drama Game Dev 
5
423
StereoVsn replied
Top Bottom