M
Macapala
Unconfirmed Member
Where does the arse fat end and the back fat begin?So all dev's will look like this:
-
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Sony's Shawn Layden emphasizes diverse teams; "it's important our development teams look like our fans"
- Thread starter DunDunDunpachi
- Start date
nkarafo
Member
You don't need skill. Just don't be/stop being a white male and you can do anything.
The end result is irrelevant
nkarafo
Member
Too much stuff for the lowest common denominator to process. And many fancy words. Just hire based on gender/skin to make it look diverse. It's easier.
Why
Diversity has in no way shown to make better games. Hell, google top 50 games of all time and tell me how many of those had dev teams that weren't majorly of one nationality (I'll give you a hint, it's almost none). Without a backing to show it makes better games it's nothing but modern racism. More qualified, experienced people not getting jobs because of their skin colour, while a less qualified person gets a job because of their less common skin colour.
Admittedly there's not many publicly diverse AAA studios out there to use as reference, though Mass effect andromeda is one of few games to really push "Look how diverse our team is!" with all the staff changes at bioware and it ended up being a mess, and likely a sign of things to come with this.
Kind of sickening to be honest that people called a pair of shoes racist for being too similar to blackface a few months ago yet apparently not hiring someone because their skin isn't brown enough is something to be celebrated.
BusierDonkey
Member
Frank Spencer
Banned
Just as well they don't have fans on other planets....
joe_zazen
Member
Sony has already dismantled non-game-studio japan PlayStation operations. The budget, according to last year’s corporate filings, for the Japanese branch of PlayStation was approx 1 million USD. That is barely enough to keep the lights on in a tiny one room Tokyo office. PlayStation, for all intents and purposes, is 100% run and staffed by Californians—whose ranks now include Kaz btw, lol.
SIE Japan Studio is 400 people, I would imagine the American studios are vastly different looking than that, just a guess on my part. Furthermore why stop there, continue on to all of Sony located in Japan and 3rd party on contract developers like From Software, make it a requirement to get more non-Asians over there. Of course, everything he is talking about is more or less improper, against statutory law here and abroad, generally speaking anyway.... let alone very racist in nature.
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Eiknarf
Member
“Hey, after Jon Stewart leaves, the next host of The Daily Show should be black”
Why?
How about the next host should be the one best suited for the job!?
“Hey, the next president should be a female”
Why?
How about the next president be the one who’s best suited for the job!?
Forced diversity doesn’t do shit. Let it come naturally, morons! With pretty much every couple I know being a mixed race couple (including myself), our children will be hybrids anyway!
Silent Duck
Member
It begins in our nightmares and ends the dark, damp crevice known... as the Twilight Zone.
FearlessBelgian
Member
Something important is to respect a ratio... Why in every recent game, its 50-50 black-white ? In US Afro-american are 13% of the population... White are more than 60% (85% if you count hispanic (who are white... 
)...
Be inclusive, ok but respect the ratio... In Europe 85% of the population are white too... (90-95% if you count Arabs-Muslim for white people)
I do not like to talk like that, but you have to be honest, they abuse a lot in the recent works by mixing as many people of color as whites while we in the West live in a world of whites ...
)...Be inclusive, ok but respect the ratio... In Europe 85% of the population are white too... (90-95% if you count Arabs-Muslim for white people)
I do not like to talk like that, but you have to be honest, they abuse a lot in the recent works by mixing as many people of color as whites while we in the West live in a world of whites ...
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
How about instead of hiring people to meet some arbitrary diversity quota, you hire people based on how qualified they are for the job? 
PSYGN
Member
So all dev's will look like this:
His butt crack starts mid-back lol
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SkinnerSw33t
Member
How about instead of hiring people to meet some arbitrary diversity quota, you hire people based on how qualified they are for the job?
Because it's idealistic. Obviously, it's the ideal.
Zangiefy360
Banned
Sony, you better follow through with this. The only acceptable breakdown of teams is as follows:
White: 61%
Hispanic: 18%
Black: 13%
Asian: 6%
Native American: 1%
Of which 4.5% must be LGBT.
Qualifications be damned. Anything else and they are racist homophobes that won't be getting any of my money.
White: 61%
Hispanic: 18%
Black: 13%
Asian: 6%
Native American: 1%
Of which 4.5% must be LGBT.
Qualifications be damned. Anything else and they are racist homophobes that won't be getting any of my money.
FearlessBelgian
Member
By the way, strangely the Hispanic quota is totally absent from the landscape ...
But for me, a European, Hispanics are white, so if you add them to the white category, you're over 79% of white people ... 
SkinnerSw33t
Member
joe_zazen
Member
Japanese company, friend.
TheGreatYosh
Banned
No. Diversity means less White.
CyberPanda
Banned
Yep, means less ethnic Europeans.
somerset
Member
A statement of pure insanity.
If you make a thing aimed at a class of people who are ill-educated, with no craft or trade skills (whci happens *all* the time, obviously), that thing must be incompetently designed, built, and marketed, according to Sony. Does that sound sane to anyone here.
Obviously babies must work in factories making baby food. I mean how could anyone fault the 'logic' of the alt-left?
Is Shawn Layden briandead or just plain evil?
He advocates for "equality of *outcome*", and not for "equality of opportunity". He hopes you are so thick you will not notice the switch.
The alt-left pitches itself at the hard-of-thinking who have spent a number of years in universal education, and thus think themselves 'educated'. The fabians made universal education *compulsory* not to improve general Human ability and knowledge (indeed opponents of the fabian move expected the opposite for many classes of Humans), but to create a sea of easily exploited adults who had also suffered considerable brainwashing as kids.
In the UK apprenticeship systems have been all but abolished, community colleges totally shut down (we have only a uni system now- which is the most expensive to attend in the world), yet most kids now forced to spend even more useless years at school. The end result?
I had a new pair of glasses made in a shop. The last stage was two girls entering my details into the computer. For some reason the optician didn't do this stage- yet it involved key optics details. In front of me they debated with each other what value to type in and said out loud "if only John were here- he knows how to do this". A week later, and I'm back trying the glasses. and all the focus on the lenses is wrong. Two girls- daily maths lessons in a brit school till they were 16- and universal education had done such a wonderful job these two self-declared well qualified exam winners couldn't enter a simple maths based value (probably linking IPD to my frame selection).
Still 100% of the peeps in this shop outside of the actually 'doctors' taking the eye measurements were female. So Layden's system obviously works brilliantly. My useless new glasses be damned- equality of outcome peeps- that's the cry.
When this vile effer takes his giant Sony salary to buy things for himself, do you think he'll go to places where idiots are allowed to screw things up in the name of 'social justice'? Of course not. Like in Soviet East Germany where the ordinary people got crap- but the people who ran the system had special 'party' shops that sold decent goods.
If you cannot understand why equality of opportunity is good, and equality of outcome *insane*, you are better off keeping your mouth shut. Look at it like this. Your surgeon is discussing your coming operation with his/her fellows in front of you. If you know *nothing* about medicine, do you think it a good idea to open your mouth to give your 'mediacl' opinion? Universal education is intended to make the know-nothings into big mouths just cause they attended school (and maybe won a useless certificate). The alt-left literally relies on this for their support.
Positive Discrimination has a better name. *Discrimination*. It is reasonable to train people without too much pre-testing, for fear of forms of discrimination it may be hard to avoid. But once people are trained the excuse vanishes- now it is a case of pure *merit* and nothing else.
If Sony wishes to do 'good' (and it does not), then it can go to places where it wishes good recruits could be found, and pay to subsidise *training*. But working dev teams should have members exclusively recruited on *merit* and not skin colour, sex, or ethnic background.
If you make a thing aimed at a class of people who are ill-educated, with no craft or trade skills (whci happens *all* the time, obviously), that thing must be incompetently designed, built, and marketed, according to Sony. Does that sound sane to anyone here.
Obviously babies must work in factories making baby food. I mean how could anyone fault the 'logic' of the alt-left?
Is Shawn Layden briandead or just plain evil?
He advocates for "equality of *outcome*", and not for "equality of opportunity". He hopes you are so thick you will not notice the switch.
The alt-left pitches itself at the hard-of-thinking who have spent a number of years in universal education, and thus think themselves 'educated'. The fabians made universal education *compulsory* not to improve general Human ability and knowledge (indeed opponents of the fabian move expected the opposite for many classes of Humans), but to create a sea of easily exploited adults who had also suffered considerable brainwashing as kids.
In the UK apprenticeship systems have been all but abolished, community colleges totally shut down (we have only a uni system now- which is the most expensive to attend in the world), yet most kids now forced to spend even more useless years at school. The end result?
I had a new pair of glasses made in a shop. The last stage was two girls entering my details into the computer. For some reason the optician didn't do this stage- yet it involved key optics details. In front of me they debated with each other what value to type in and said out loud "if only John were here- he knows how to do this". A week later, and I'm back trying the glasses. and all the focus on the lenses is wrong. Two girls- daily maths lessons in a brit school till they were 16- and universal education had done such a wonderful job these two self-declared well qualified exam winners couldn't enter a simple maths based value (probably linking IPD to my frame selection).
Still 100% of the peeps in this shop outside of the actually 'doctors' taking the eye measurements were female. So Layden's system obviously works brilliantly. My useless new glasses be damned- equality of outcome peeps- that's the cry.
When this vile effer takes his giant Sony salary to buy things for himself, do you think he'll go to places where idiots are allowed to screw things up in the name of 'social justice'? Of course not. Like in Soviet East Germany where the ordinary people got crap- but the people who ran the system had special 'party' shops that sold decent goods.
If you cannot understand why equality of opportunity is good, and equality of outcome *insane*, you are better off keeping your mouth shut. Look at it like this. Your surgeon is discussing your coming operation with his/her fellows in front of you. If you know *nothing* about medicine, do you think it a good idea to open your mouth to give your 'mediacl' opinion? Universal education is intended to make the know-nothings into big mouths just cause they attended school (and maybe won a useless certificate). The alt-left literally relies on this for their support.
Positive Discrimination has a better name. *Discrimination*. It is reasonable to train people without too much pre-testing, for fear of forms of discrimination it may be hard to avoid. But once people are trained the excuse vanishes- now it is a case of pure *merit* and nothing else.
If Sony wishes to do 'good' (and it does not), then it can go to places where it wishes good recruits could be found, and pay to subsidise *training*. But working dev teams should have members exclusively recruited on *merit* and not skin colour, sex, or ethnic background.
M
Macapala
Unconfirmed Member
Lol. It totally does.His ass goes all the way up.
Lionel Richie
Member
In name only, PS Sony is basically western at this point.
CyberPanda
Banned
You should sniff it.
strange headache
Banned
I'll make it simple for you.
This dude...
...probably knows more about Egyptian history and culture than this dude...
You know why? Because one is a famous archaeologist with a vested interest in Egyptology, the other is a fat neck-bearded rapper with no interest in culture at all.
If you were to make a game like Assassin's Creed: Origins, who would you rather have on your team, the expert or the diversity hire? Be honest...
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Inspector 2211
Member
I don't have the time or the inclination to point out all the ways that this post is retarded. So I'll just be succinct; You're a fucking idiot.
Insane Metal
Member
It means more humans though. Because we all know straight white men are not humans.
merlinevo
Banned
I agree. Most of the classic and timeless games I've played are from Japan. They are the most progressive products without all the in your face preaching that western games often do.
What have the diverse western developers contributed in terms of diversity? Sport games? Shooting games? We can wipe out the majority of western games and the gaming landscape would still be more diverse.
Honest question, do western games have a fair representation of all types of people? Just a look at some of the popular titles like GTA or COD and you see the typical makeup of these games. White guy/girl or black guy/girl or brown guy/girl. That is not diverse folks. You left out the whole of asia, who make up 1/3 of the gaming market, and you think that makes gaming diverse?
This Layden guy drank too much of the disney coolaid and now thinks everything needs to have a black lead development team to be successful. Sony remind him who he works for.
Pot Meet Kettle
Member
Europeans for whatever reason includes piss-poor Eastern Europeans that were fucked over in various ways by major superpowers.
The Japanese, and now the Chinese and Koreans too (nevermind they never could get local development for console gaming really started there)
I think it's an intersectionality thing.
A race to the bottom, where anyone who's ahead (even if they were in deep shit and abject poverty just 60 years ago) is to be struck down immediately, and where one's worth is how miserable you can prove you are at the moment. You can hear people who say unironically that someone the darkest shade of black skin "speaks, or behaves, or is 'too white'", so even being the "correct race" would NOT save you.
Not a very successful model of empowering more people to succeed, or to preserve and transmit the success DNA to as many people as possible the way compassion would have it, or to end prejudices (if anything, this is fighting to enshrine prejudices as formal justified policies with pseudo-scientific bullshit excuses)
But is it a good way to tear down industries and societies, as protected classes (very white "professors" and higher-ups of the lower rank "activists") sit on the front row watching all of this shit unravel, who never play by those rules, and who gets how to apply them and on whom, and have carte blanche to horribly punish actual minorities who are their personal enemies.
Eiknarf
Member
When you open your own company, you can go and hire one of every ethnicity AND one of each of the new “26 genders”. I’ll hire who’s best for my company
(My company will be more successful than yours)
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The point being made was obvious. Trying to misconstrue it to start a racial derail is incredibly cheap. User has been reply banned from this post temporarily.
How about instead of hiring people to meet some arbitrary diversity quota, you hire people based on how qualified they are for the job?
Why is it impossible for you to believe they are hiring the smartest people for the job? Maybe they also happen to be diverse too. Or maybe it's probably because you don't think diverse groups can be as smart or smarter than a mostly white male group?
danielberg
Neophyte
actually not that big of a deal
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Boss Mog
Member
I don't know how you can come up with such a bullshit accusation of saying he thinks non whites aren't as smart as whites when all he said was that they should hire the best people regardless of ethnicity.Why is it impossible for you to believe they are hiring the smartest people for the job? Maybe they also happen to be diverse too. Or maybe it's probably because you don't think diverse groups can be as smart or smarter than a mostly white male group?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Did you NOT read my post? I was asking questions. I didn't accuse him of actually thinking it. To think Sony isn't already hiring the best available means that it's possible that same poster believes emphasizing diverse teams will keep Sony from doing that.
And why did
Eiknarf
think Sony is trying to meet some made up quota?shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
I work in software development. My coworkers are like 50% Indian, 10% Chinese, 10% non-native Europeans, 20% white Americans, 10% other. About 25% of my coworkers are female.
I can tell you that the quality of our product has suffered immensely due to the ethnic/gender makeup of our teams not accurately reflecting that of the general population. (Haha no, just kidding)
I can tell you that the quality of our product has suffered immensely due to the ethnic/gender makeup of our teams not accurately reflecting that of the general population. (Haha no, just kidding)
Because Diversity seems to be their chief concern. To stand as a chief concern means coming first and foremost, above other criteria such as competence, or CV, that is.
Happen to?
When they advertise it to the world as their new badge of honor?
No, not happen to.
Engeneered as, surely that's what you mean.
Or maybe it's probably because you don't think diverse groups can be as smart or smarter than a mostly white male group?
And here full-blow persecution complex can be witnessed. You couldn't help yourself. You just had to insinuate there's no such thing as principled opposition to diversity. It all must be a cover-up for something darker, more sinister.
Don't you get tired of that move?
The way to make sure teams are as competent as possible it to always go for the best. Any other chief criterion will lead to inferior results, by definition.
When I check-in at the private hospital and place myself in their hands, I praise the God of Ayn Rand, in that being the best is what landed them the job, not irrelevant attributes such as their sexual orientation or skin colour.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Then me and you are reading the same statement differently. I didn't take Sony saying this to mean it's their NUMBER ONE concern. They are just putting "an" emphasis on it. It's "a" priority, not the number one priority. And I can assure you I'm not persecuted at all. Don't pull that bullshit on me. Any person that has a principled opposition to diversity has a bad agenda and just isn't smart, because diversity in of itself isn't bad. It "CAN" be if it's the number one priority, but where do you see that happening?
There are zero issues with diversity, because diversity can come in many stripes. It doesn't just have to be about black and white (race).
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Boss Mog
Member
You didn't use the word "possible" though you said "probably" and that makes all the difference.Did you NOT read my post? I was asking questions. I didn't accuse him of actually thinking it. To think Sony isn't already hiring the best available means that it's possible that same poster believes emphasizing diverse teams will keep Sony from doing that.
And why did
We all saw what prioritizing diversity over talent did for Mass Effect Andromeda. I don't think Sony are actively doing the same shit as BioWare Montreal was doing because their games are almost all top notch. My guess is that Sony probably already mostly hires the best people and it just so happens that there's some diversity in there and that Layden is just taking advantage of that fact to virtue signal about how diverse the teams at Sony are to score some internet brownie points.
I'm guessing he brought up quotas because if Layden said "well 5% of teams are black", the SJWs would say it wasn't enough. So how much is enough? The only way to regulate such a thing would be through quotas, which is obviously ridiculous, but otherwise certain people will always complain about their representation even if that representation exceeds their representation in the population's demographics.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
First of all we do not know if a more diverse team is what made Mass Effect Andromeda a bad game. Where did you get that from? What research or journalist did you see that found out that information? And 2nd, diversity shouldn't be about quotas or meeting some made up BS number for the "right" amount of black people or women. It's giving people of all shades, genders, ideas, etc an equal shot. And also about going out of your way to getting that difference. Top management shouldn't be trying to hit a number.
RedVIper
Banned
So if qualifications are the number one priority then diversity doesn't matter.
You can't have an "emphasis" on diversity if you're just going to pick who ever is the best qualified anyway, the two statements aren't compatible.
lock2k
Banned
This is so dumb.
I love Living Colour and Japanese rock bands and I look nothing like them. What do I enjoy? The sounds that they make.
We don't have to look like game developers or artists. We just have to appreciate their products. Why is that so fucking hard to understand? Worst timeline, indeed.
Also, diversity is a fucking fallacy. If you get 12 white men together you're going to get a jazz fan, a metal fan, a christian, a satanist, a gay person, etcetera. Diversity is not tied to the fucking color of the skin. Brains are different.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No you're doing the one or the other thing that too many people on the internet like to do. Where everything is black or white, hot or cold and not seeing enough grey or luke-warm. The two statements are 100% compatible. There are many jobs and situations where 2 candidates can be within the margin of error of each other in skill. 1000s of managers every day try to choose the person that best "fits" the team giving that they are close in skill.
At this point, if you are Sony and you have 3 people that super close in skill and background, then you factor in diversity (in whatever way diversity means to that team). It's the smart play business wise too if you have good management.
Boss Mog
Member
I guess you didn't follow ME Andromeda that closely but there were many examples of hires that had no experience. I remember a woman who I think was a cosplayer or something being hired as a facial animator without any prior experience and one of Andromeda's biggest problems at launch was facial animations. There was also a racist project lead who constantly tweeted how he hated white people. I'm sure he probably had input on some of the hires and we certainly know where his priorities were.
Of course giving everybody equal opportunity is what matters but to some people, such as blacktivists and SJWs, meeting certain numbers is what they are asking for, no matter what.
RedVIper
Banned
Then you're discriminating based on race, something that has 0 to do with the job, but sure "factoring in diversity" is a nicer way to say we'll be racist towards the other candidates.
When two people with similar skill apply for a job you see which one has more experience, which one has skills that best complement the team they'll be working one, not wich one will make the color gradient more complete.
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