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SpaceX successfully land rocket vertically

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S

spekkeh

Banned
According to wikipedia, launching an Ariane 5 costs 150 million, with 60 million for the rocket, and 90 million for everything else (staff, infrastructure, liftoff rights(?) etc). I'm not sure if it's dumping any booster rockets, but say it isn't (because in the final design it would be cheaper not to I guess), that would mean the total cost of launching something would be 3/5th of what it is now. However, I reckon there's also quite a bit of refurbishing to do.

So still a lot cheaper, but not really a democratization of space travel yet I wouldn't say. Thinking about landing on Mars and returning though does whet some appetite.
 
G

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Bregor said:
Yeah, they are exaggerating also - or do you believe that 99% of the launch cost is in the first stage?
Click to expand...

I don't really know either way, but I have to take SpaceX at their word because they are the experts :p

spekkeh said:
According to wikipedia, launching an Ariane 5 costs 150 million, with 60 million for the rocket. I'm not sure if it's dumping any booster rockets, but say it isn't (because in the final design it would be cheaper not to I guess), that would mean the total cost of launching something would be 3/5th of what it is now. However, I reckon there's also quite a bit of refurbishing to do.

So still a lot cheaper, but not really a democratization of space travel yet I wouldn't say. Thinking about landing on Mars and returning though does whet some appetite.
Click to expand...

Falcon 9 costs a lot less than that:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/12/09/the-rocketeer/

At a published price of $56.5 million per launch, Falcon 9 rockets are already the cheapest in the industry. Reusable Falcon 9s could drop the price by an order of magnitude, sparking more space-based enterprise, which in turn would drop the cost of access to space still further through economies of scale
Click to expand...
 
S

Snow

Member
spekkeh said:
You sure? The quote from your article specifically mentions the rocket. I mean Arianespace would already be ded if that were the case.
Click to expand...
Sounds right to me. Even without this reusability stuff SpaceX has been able to lower cost quite a bit compared to their competitors.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
Bregor said:
That would be impressive (and one order of magnitude), but I have trouble believing even that.

Though I suppose the simple solution is for me to just wait and see how it goes, rather than just being an armchair aerospace engineer.
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely, they need to assess the wear and tear of the rocket for reuse and then zone in on a proper cost. The next few weeks will be very interesting to hear of all this.
 
S

spekkeh

Banned
GSG Flash said:
Yes, 100% sure

edit:

This is SpaceX's advertised price:

http://www.spacex.com/about/capabilities
Click to expand...

Snow said:
Sounds right to me. Even without this reusability stuff SpaceX has been able to lower cost quite a bit compared to their competitors.
Click to expand...

Well then!

I see that the actual price for a Ariane 5 launch is closer to 170 million too
http://spacenews.com/with-eye-on-spacex-cnes-begins-work-on-reusable-rocket-stage/
(though I guess an Ariane 5 would be closer to a Falcon heavy?)

RIP Arianespace.
 
D

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
Bregor said:
That would be impressive (and one order of magnitude), but I have trouble believing even that.

Though I suppose the simple solution is for me to just wait and see how it goes, rather than just being an armchair aerospace engineer.
Click to expand...

It's the entire point of reusing the first stage, it will drastically reduce the price to launch. The airplane analogy works perfectly in this case.
 
G

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
spekkeh said:
Well then!

I see that the actual price for a Ariane 5 launch is closer to 170 million too
http://spacenews.com/with-eye-on-spacex-cnes-begins-work-on-reusable-rocket-stage/
(though I guess an Ariane 5 would be closer to a Falcon heavy?)

RIP Arianespace.
Click to expand...

So we can't really use Ariane 5 as a comparison. The amount Arianespace charges to deliver a payload is about the same as SpaceX, the thing is that Ariane 5 is a much bigger rocket and can carry a lot more than Falcon 9 can(~44000 lbs vs ~28000 lbs for a low earth orbit payload) so the price per launch for one Ariane 5 launch is, not surprisingly, going to be a lot more.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
duderon said:
It's the entire point of reusing the first stage, it will drastically reduce the price to launch. The airplane analogy works perfectly in this case.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Especially if it can be further engineered based on reusability. If it is disposable you might keep the manufacturing costs and features down beyond safety. Once it becomes reusable on a regular basis you can start improving and investing in it as a vehicle in and of itself.

I am curious if eventually we might see rockets go up, grab something instead of releasing it, then fly back and land with it. Or does it not go high enough?
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
spekkeh said:
Well then!

I see that the actual price for a Ariane 5 launch is closer to 170 million too
http://spacenews.com/with-eye-on-spacex-cnes-begins-work-on-reusable-rocket-stage/
(though I guess an Ariane 5 would be closer to a Falcon heavy?)

RIP Arianespace.
Click to expand...

SpaceX have been taking so much business from both Arianespace and ULA this year..

I think there has been 20 major contracts up for grabs, SpaceX have 9 of them - that also includes launch companies in Russia too.
 
S

Snow

Member
GSG Flash said:
So we can't really use Ariane 5 as a comparison. The amount Arianespace charges to deliver a payload is about the same as SpaceX, the thing is that Ariane 5 is a much bigger rocket and can carry a lot more than Falcon 9 can(~44000 lbs vs ~28000 lbs for a low earth orbit payload) so the price per launch for one Ariane 5 launch is, not surprisingly, going to be a lot more.
Click to expand...
So the standard way to compare these things is cost per pound/kg to LEO or GTO, right? Any recent numbers on that for SpaceX vs. competitors?
 
P

Puppet Shadow

Member
I was fortunate enough to have my dad drag me in front of the TV to watch the moon landing, which was blurry as hell, but really fucking cool.

I find this almost as mind blowing, thanks GAF for drawing my attention to this so I could watch it live yesterday.
 
T

Talka

Member
So, what comes next? What are the next cool milestones?

Is it watching SpaceX's now-super-viable business model steal launches from competitors?

Is it waiting for the first Falcon Heavy launch?

Is it waiting for SpaceX to deliver astronauts to the ISS?

Is it waiting for announcements of new technology like a Mars Colonial Transporter design or a spacesuit design, etc?
 
G

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Snow said:
So the standard way to compare these things is cost per pound/kg to LEO or GTO, right? Any recent numbers on that for SpaceX vs. competitors?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately don't have any up to date numbers for that(and the different launch companies don't make it easy to get that info either :/)

Grabbed this atleast 2 year old cost/kg list from another site though:

Falcon Heavy: $2200
Falcon 9 v 1.1- $4,109
DNEPR- $3,784
Ariane 5- $10,476
Delta IV- $13,072
Atlas V- $13,182
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
Heh, saw the landing gif and if you had told me before today it was a reverse-gif I would have believed it. From now on, not so much.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
Talka said:
So, what comes next? What are the next cool milestones?

Is it watching SpaceX's now-super-viable business model steal launches from competitors?

Is it waiting for the first Falcon Heavy launch?

Is it waiting for SpaceX to deliver astronauts to the ISS?

Is it waiting for announcements of new technology like a Mars Colonial Transporter design or a spacesuit design, etc?
Click to expand...

The line of notable events coming up:
- Mars mission architecture announcement in the next two months or so
- First reflight of landed first stage (most likely the SES booster or CRS-8)
- Falcon Heavy debut in April/May
- Dragon V2 unmanned testwiller in the year
- Dragon V2 manned flight in April/May 2017

If they successfully relaunch and reland their booster, it will be monumental. SpaceX will be able to undercut their competitors by an even larger margin and will further consolidate the launch market while simultaneously feed all of their knowledge about reusability into the BFR/MCT and Raptor design.

Falcon Heavy will give them the most powerful rocket currently in production and provide them with the ability to put payloads of a sizeable margin on the surface of Mars (Red Dragon).

Dragon V2 will probably be the biggest event for SpaceX. They will be the first private company to be able to send people to orbit and back, the significance of which can never be understated.

I cannot wait to hear how the stage faired during reentry. Having the ability to tear it apart and check every piece of the stage is enormously helpful to improving reliability.
 
T

Talka

Member
Bowdz said:
The line of notable events coming up:
- Mars mission architecture announcement in the next two months or so
- First reflight of landed first stage (most likely the SES booster or CRS-8)
- Falcon Heavy debut in April/May
- Dragon V2 unmanned testwiller in the year
- Dragon V2 manned flight in April/May 2017

If they successfully relaunch and reland their booster, it will be monumental. SpaceX will be able to undercut their competitors by an even larger margin and will further consolidate the launch market while simultaneously feed all of their knowledge about reusability into the BFR/MCT and Raptor design.

Falcon Heavy will give them the most powerful rocket currently in production and provide them with the ability to put payloads of a sizeable margin on the surface of Mars (Red Dragon).

Dragon V2 will probably be the biggest event for SpaceX. They will be the first private company to be able to send people to orbit and back, the significance of which can never be understated.

I cannot wait to hear how the stage faired during reentry. Having the ability to tear it apart and check every piece of the stage is enormously helpful to improving reliability.
Click to expand...

Thanks! This is awesome. Can't wait to watch this all unfold.
 
A

Assanova

Member
Talka said:
So, what comes next? What are the next cool milestones?

Is it watching SpaceX's now-super-viable business model steal launches from competitors?

Is it waiting for the first Falcon Heavy launch?

Is it waiting for SpaceX to deliver astronauts to the ISS?

Is it waiting for announcements of new technology like a Mars Colonial Transporter design or a spacesuit design, etc?
Click to expand...

I read this as "deliver astronauts to ISIS".
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
NM cool beans spacex,

Still not that into science/scientists (aka flip floppers). The pictures look real awesome.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
Elfforkusu said:
No the person you're responding to, but... yes?

At minimum (imo) we're talking the $10-20m range for a launch if the first stage is reusable.
Click to expand...

Yep, and given that it's currently $60m per launch, that is not an inconsiderable amount.

Also, it's also about competition. I just read that the next Ariane 6 wont have any reusability of any components until 2025-2030. In a few years, SpaceX has gone from being created, launching a few small Falcon 1s from an atol (and seeing them fail, then succeed), launching commercial supplies to the ISS, earning almost half the major commercial launch contracts and then to be 10 years ahead of a major player in Ariane.
 
K

killer rin

Member
So, what is the next step after this? Just take the rocket and see how many successive launches they can pull off in the same day?
 
U

univariate

Banned
Timedog said:
NM cool beans spacex,

Still not that into science/scientists (aka flip floppers). The pictures look real awesome.
Click to expand...
Flip floppers? Sounds like you don't know shit about even the most basic principles of science; adhering to the scientific method is not flip-flopping. Go pray to your storm god.
 
C

Concept17

Member
It was fantastic watching the SpaceX employees cheering. I can only imagine the amount of relief, what with the failure back in June. Super happy for them, and I sincerely wish this was bigger news in the world.
 
N

Neo C.

Member
Once again Musk is far ahead of the competition. I hope competitors can catch up, it would accelerate the space exploration so much.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
univariate said:
Flip floppers? Sounds like you don't know shit about even the most basic principles of science; adhering to the scientific method is not flip-flopping. Go pray to your storm god.
Click to expand...

E-Cat said:
Holy shit, you must be a heavily religious/brainwashed person to use such language.
Click to expand...
I'm atheist, just don't like flip floppers. I'm sure if we argue about it, you guys will stick to your guns regardless of what my arguments are...that's commendable. Especially in the face of this biceps gun show.

Flip floppers? Don't respect that.
 
A

Alexlf

Member
Timedog said:
I'm atheist, just don't like flip floppers. I'm sure if we argue about it, you guys will stick to your guns regardless of what my arguments are...that's commendable. Especially in the face of this biceps gun show.

Flip floppers? Don't respect that.
Click to expand...

Hey man, that doesn't-

Timedog
good credit (by proxy)

Oh. Good job.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
univariate said:
You're also ignorant, and a pitiful troll, don't forget to add those.
Click to expand...
Not a huge fan of scienctists. They're not the worst though, like Trump. It's not a big deal if Im not as excited about them as you. I'm pretty lukewarm on them, and that's okay.

The fire in the sky pictures look awesome!
 
E-Cat

E-Cat

Member
Timedog said:
Not a huge fan of scienctists. They're not the worst though, like Trump. It's not a big deal if Im not as excited about them as you. I'm pretty lukewarm on them, and that's okay.
Click to expand...
Doubt you'll feel that way if, God forbid, you should get a medical condition some day.

And, no, ignorance is not 'okay'.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
E-Cat said:
Doubt you'll feel that way if, God forbid, you should get a medical condition some day.

And, no, ignorance is not 'okay'.
Click to expand...
I have many medical conditions. Still lukewarm on scientists. Not super into them, not sure why anyone cares so much about what Im personally into.
 
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