• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

*SPOILERS* Inception Thread of Dreaming a Little Bigger

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jtwo said:
The more I read and the think about this movie, the more I realize it makes absolutely no sense.
Still a great movie though.

I don't quite understand all of it but it mostly made sense.

Fischer went to Limbo when he died right? So why were Cobb and Ariadne simply able to go down a level into Limbo. Then in Limbo Cobb's wife is basically holding him hostage and waiting for Cobb. But Why does Cobb's wife exist in Limbo before Cobb gets there?
 
Igo said:
I don't quite understand all of it but it mostly made sense.

Fischer went to Limbo when he died right? So why were Cobb and Ariadne simply able to go down a level into Limbo. Then in Limbo Cobb's wife is basically holding him hostage and waiting for Cobb. But Why does Cobb's wife exist in Limbo before Cobb gets there?
It only makes sense when you are in the floating bubble that is the movie's logic. The movie's actual logic itself doesn't make sense. It is completely contrived.
 
Igo said:
I don't quite understand all of it but it mostly made sense.

Fischer went to Limbo when he died right? So why were Cobb and Ariadne simply able to go down a level into Limbo. Then in Limbo Cobb's wife is basically holding him hostage and waiting for Cobb. But Why does Cobb's wife exist in Limbo before Cobb gets there?

Limbo can be reached by simply going down too far. Presumably going down 4 levels constitutes as deep enough.

Cobb's wife was there because limbo is comprised of everyone's collective subconsciousness.

But why is it so shocking that she's there? She appeared out of thin air in almost every dream sequence throughout the movie!
 
BobsRevenge said:
It's all in the sedative. It determines if you go up a level or get sent to limbo. So if they kill themselves and go up a level you have to assume the sedative isn't strong enough to keep them in limbo.

But...aren't they all under the same dosage?

The reason I was asking is, it would make sense. Dying under that much sedative sends you to limbo, but the danger of limbo isn't dying and going to limbo 2, it's the danger of not realizing you're dreaming and being stuck there forever. Once you realize that, isn't it a simple matter of killing yourself?
 
BobsRevenge said:
I tried to explain this earlier. They were able to kill themselves because the sedative was weak. They obviously had to summon up the machine and the sedative, so they just used a sedative that wouldn't keep them under in limbo if they killed themselves.

edit: Of course this is assumed to fill in a plot hole. Because otherwise, how does it work?
Ariadne did not die. She woke up mid-fall (which was during the Snow Fortress explosive sequence). Maybe Ariadne was stupid and thought jumping would work, when in actuality it was just coincidence that the explosive charges happened to wake her just then?

Anyway I'm off to eat tacos.
 
Igo said:
I don't quite understand all of it but it mostly made sense.

Fischer went to Limbo when he died right? So why were Cobb and Ariadne simply able to go down a level into Limbo. Then in Limbo Cobb's wife is basically holding him hostage and waiting for Cobb. But Why does Cobb's wife exist in Limbo before Cobb gets there?

Because her and Cobb created worlds in their own limbo, and because they're all dream sharing, his limbo becomes the limbo they all go into. Mal is ALWAYS lurking in his subconscious, which is essentially what limbo is.
 
Feep said:
Ariadne did not die. She woke up mid-fall (which was during the Snow Fortress explosive sequence). Maybe Ariadne was stupid and thought jumping would work, when in actuality it was just coincidence that the explosive charges happened to wake her just then?

Maybe she was doing it as a failsafe in case the kick didn't work for her.

Or some falling debris knocked her head off but they didn't want to show that during a PG-13 movie.
 
Feep said:
Anyway I'm off to eat tacos.

So simple and straight forward. I love it. Here's 100 million dollars. Make a movie.


My head still hurts. I'm watching it again tomorrow night. Maybe that'll settle everything down up there.
 
Got this from IMDB

Why the ending IS real-- and it has NOTHING to do with the top

Remember the scene in the outdoor cafe in which Cobb tells Ariadne that in dreams it always seems that we are "dropped" into the action and that we can never remember the "beginning" or "how we got there"?

Admittedly, the last scene is very dream-like-- the warm lighting, the children wearing the exact same clothes and playing in the exact same position-- but does Cobb just "show up"?

Not at all. In fact, the preceeding couple of minutes to this last scene are visually the most banal and NON-dream like: Cobb wakes up on the plane. Cobb waits in line. Cobb goes through immigration. There's that extended shot of Cobb and his team and Fischer waiting for luggage at baggage claim (how exciting). Then Cobb sees his father in law, who is there to pick him up and take him home.

What's the point of Nolan showing all these banal, everyday aspects of airport routine? To show there is a logical, normal, decidedly non-dreamlike process-- beginning-- to how Cobb ended up at home, seeing his children. The ending is real, and you could argue it has nothing to do with whatever ends up happening to the top. There's no faceless corporate boogeymen, no walls closing in, no Mal popping around, no staircases that end in other staircases: it's a plane at touchdown, an immigrations check, a baggage claim shot, a guy waiting to pick up his son in law at the airport. So the audience knows-- and Cobb knows-- "how he got" to his children at the end. That wouldn't happen in a dream.

It makes sense.
 
Zoe said:
Limbo can be reached by simply going down too far. Presumably going down 4 levels constitutes as deep enough.

Cobb's wife was there because limbo is comprised of everyone's collective subconsciousness.

But why is it so shocking that she's there? She appeared out of thin air in almost every dream sequence throughout the movie!

Thx. This makes sense. It's just, forgetting Limbo for a moment, I wasn't thinking that Mal could invade a space/level where Cobb didn't yet 'exist'. As they're sharing a collective subconsciousness though it's entirely possible.

Were they connected to Fischer when they went into Limbo? If they were then everything makes sense to me. Probably also means that had Saito died on Level 2, connecting to him there would also bring them to Limbo.
 
Talon- said:
I feel like an idiot for having missed that the final sequence is the only sequence we see with a clear progression.

BUT WHAT IF HE FELL ASLEEP IN THE CAB?!

Feep said:
Ariadne did not die. She woke up mid-fall (which was during the Snow Fortress explosive sequence). Maybe Ariadne was stupid and thought jumping would work, when in actuality it was just coincidence that the explosive charges happened to wake her just then?
Anyway I'm off to eat tacos.

Ariadne did die. She wakes up on impact. The only way to get out of limbo is through death. I thought we established that the level above you is the "kick".

Fischer dies and is transferred to limbo
Ariadne and Cobb dream another layer deeper, which is limbo
Fischer is kicked off the building and dies>transfers to level 3 and sees his father
Ariadne jumps off the building and dies>transfers to level 3 just in time to hit the elevator kick from level 2>then hits the van kick from level 1

I don't see much of a point to Ariadne jumping if the charges detonating the hospital were going to wake her up anyway. Unless she jumped as a failsafe.

Then again, I think I just confused myself. I need to write this shit down.
 
Feep said:
Also, the burning question of why the fuck Ariadne and Fischer jumped off the building is still unresolved, as I suspect it will always be. I think I may have to accept this as a continuity error.
Noone responded to my theory

:(

Me said:
I believe what happens is that Fischer dies, so Ariadne and Cobb follow him into limbo. The only way out of limbo is to die, and Ariadne and Fischer jump off the building to commit suicide. The explosion from the level above was merely a warning, much like with the music, however they hadn't prepared any headphones so they had to improvise.

I may be completely wrong, but I think that's what happened. I want to see it again to make sure.
 
So now i have watched Inception 3 times over 3 days...in 3 different theaters,and i have to say that people were laughing at the most weird and idiotic times.
DerpDurrDog.jpg

I don't want to come off as an arrogant douche but man oh man that constant awkward laughing really destroys the mood.
 
Talon- said:
Well done, sir. This theory makes the most sense.

Yeah. The biggest danger in the dream world is limbo--not the world of limbo itself, but because of your minds inability to separate it from reality. If you know it's not real...then you can just kill yourself. Assuming there aren't "levels" of limbo.
 
Things become a lot clearer when you realize that Cobb and Adriadne follow Fischer down into Limbo, not some "4th dream level", as so many are saying. It is no single person's dream - it's Limbo, a shared consciousness. And to get out of that, you kill yourself, like Cobb and Mal did with the train.

This has become some huge point of contention and I'm not sure why. It always seemed very clear to me that it was Limbo.
 
Zeliard said:
Things become a lot clearer when you realize that Cobb and Adriadne follow Fischer down into Limbo, not some "4th dream level", as so many are saying. It is no single person's dream - it's Limbo, a shared consciousness. And to get out of that, you kill yourself, like Cobb and Mal did with the train.

This has become some huge point of contention and I'm not sure why. It always seemed very clear to me that it was Limbo.
I don't know if it really has. I feel like it's been consensus here from the start.
 
Zeliard said:
Things become a lot clearer when you realize that Cobb and Adriadne follow Fischer down into Limbo, not some "4th dream level", as so many are saying. It is no single person's dream - it's Limbo, a shared consciousness. And to get out of that, you kill yourself, like Cobb and Mal did with the train.

This has become some huge point of contention and I'm not sure why. It always seemed very clear to me that it was Limbo.

It is limbo. But it's also the 4th level. Cobb and Mal reached limbo by experimenting with going deeper and deeper.
 
I don't think calling it a level is appropriate since levels are confined, shared dreams while Limbo is potentially accessible by anyone.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
This is sort of my feeling, too. I don't think the explosion would get them out of it.
Although, a concussion blast would fuck all sorts of shit up in your inner ear.

Mr. Snrub said:
But...aren't they all under the same dosage?

The reason I was asking is, it would make sense. Dying under that much sedative sends you to limbo, but the danger of limbo isn't dying and going to limbo 2, it's the danger of not realizing you're dreaming and being stuck there forever. Once you realize that, isn't it a simple matter of killing yourself?
The sedative is independent on every level. I see no reason why it wouldn't be. So obviously if the dream they are under a weaker sedative to go into limbo they can escape it by killing themselves. The sedative on the real level isn't important at that point.
 
Talon- said:
I don't know if it really has. I feel like it's been consensus here from the start.

It really hasn't. I've been arguing the Limbo thing since the movie came out. :P And there'd be nothing to argue if people weren't arguing back. Zefah in particular was and perhaps still is adamant that it isn't Limbo.

Zoe said:
It is limbo. But it's also the 4th level. Cobb and Mal reached limbo by experimenting with going deeper and deeper.

Calling it the "4th level" is a misnomer. Limbo is the wilderness of your subconscious. It isn't its own level. Cobb and Mal got there by going deeper into their subconscious, but there's no way to tell what "level" they ended up at, or if such a thing as a level or a layer applies to the whole of Limbo.
 
Yeah, after my second viewing I was sure that Fischer and Ariande died in Limbo. We don't see her body hit the ground, but we also don't see Mal and Dom splattered by the train. They died.
 
Zeliard said:
Calling it the "4th level" is a misnomer. Limbo is the wilderness of your subconscious. It isn't its own level. Cobb and Mal got there by going deeper into their subconscious, but there's no way to tell what "level" they ended up at, or if such a thing as a level or a layer applies to the whole of Limbo.
Limbo is dream space that no one has built up yet. It is like the other levels, except untouched. Right?

Like, if you were on part of a harddrive that was written, but then got kicked off to a part that was empty and you could do whatever there.
 
RobotNinjaHornets said:
Noone responded to my theory

:(

I believe you can exit Limbo without dying, it's just very unlikely considering how great the time differential is there compared to the dream layers and reality. It's likely Adriadne and Fischer jumped because they would be there a long while if they didn't. Though Fischer didn't look like he'd aged at all in the time between his death and when Cobb and Adriadne's arrival in Limbo. Possibly an oversight.

On second thought, this only half makes sense. I don't think you can be kicked out of Limbo because Cobb didn't wake up with the others on Level 2, but the timer running out should end everything.
 
I still don't understand the kick thing. I've seen the movie twice and every time a kick happens it sends you up a level. The snow fortress collapsing sends people from there to the hotel level, right before the kick in the hotel level sends them up to the van.

I don't know where the fuck you guys are getting this "higher level kicks affect the lower level" shit, aside from the very beginning. That just proves a continuity error.
 
Zeliard said:
Calling it the "4th level" is a misnomer. Limbo is the wilderness of your subconscious. It isn't its own level. Cobb and Mal got there by going deeper into their subconscious, but there's no way to tell what "level" they ended up at, or if such a thing as a level or a layer applies to the whole of Limbo.

True, but Cobb specifically states that he and Mal were experimenting with dreams within dreams, which makes me thing they eventually delved deep enough into their mind to reach limbo. After a certain amount of levels, I'd imagine limbo is "the end".
 
ZephyrFate said:
I still don't understand the kick thing. I've seen the movie twice and every time a kick happens it sends you up a level. The snow fortress collapsing sends people from there to the hotel level, right before the kick in the hotel level sends them up to the van.

I don't know where the fuck you guys are getting this "higher level kicks affect the lower level" shit, aside from the very beginning. That just proves a continuity error.
What happens when you're asleep in a car and go over a bump? Or if you fall out of bed? Or even if someone just shakes you a bit?

The disbalance wakes you up, no?

That's all a kick is.
 
RobotNinjaHornets said:
What happens when you're asleep in a car and go over a bump? Or if you fall out of bed? Or even if someone just shakes you a bit?

The disbalance wakes you up, no?

That's all a kick is.
Yeah but the kicks don't happen until after you wake up on the level that the kick is in, as shown by Ariadne and Eames waking up JUST BEFORE the elevator simulated freefall.
 
BobsRevenge said:
Limbo is dream space that no one has built up yet. It is like the other levels, except untouched. Right?

Like, if you were on part of a harddrive that was written, but then got kicked off to a part that was empty and you could do whatever there.

Thing of an enormous empty field. In the middle of it, there's an office building with an elevator. Each floor of that office building is self-contained, so think of them as individual dream layers. You can keep going up and down these various floors, but you have to do so in succession - you can't skip from floor 5 to floor 3 without passing floor 4. It's also possible to take the elevator back up to where you originally came from.

Eventually, down deep enough, you emerge outside, with the huge open field of nothingness awaiting you. Once there you're locked out of the office building, so you can no longer use the elevator to leave (you can't be directly kicked back up to reality). You have to get out of the field using other means - killing yourself or waiting for your time there to simply run out.

You can create and modify various things in that large field, and anyone who visits your field will see these things, but they won't have anything there until they start building their own stuff.
 
ZephyrFate said:
Yeah but the kicks don't happen until after you wake up on the level that the kick is in, as shown by Ariadne and Eames waking up JUST BEFORE the elevator simulated freefall.

They should awake in the elevator for a moment after it's crashed and sent to level 2 immediately, before they're pancaked and sent to Limbo. Thats the only way it makes sense to me.
 
RobotNinjaHornets said:
What happens when you're asleep in a car and go over a bump? Or if you fall out of bed? Or even if someone just shakes you a bit?

The disbalance wakes you up, no?

That's all a kick is.
That's what the sedative prevented.

Alright, so has anyone mentioned what the point of Eames blowing up the snow fortress was for if you need to be kicked from a higher level?
 
It's simple, really: Did Cobb and Mal killed themselves to dwelve deeper into another layer called limbo in which they were happy in (the world they created) ? If not, then it's just level 4/5/whatever.
 
Zeliard said:
Things become a lot clearer when you realize that Cobb and Adriadne follow Fischer down into Limbo, not some "4th dream level", as so many are saying. It is no single person's dream - it's Limbo, a shared consciousness. And to get out of that, you kill yourself, like Cobb and Mal did with the train.

This has become some huge point of contention and I'm not sure why. It always seemed very clear to me that it was Limbo.
The only question I have is that I thought killing yourself in Limbo kicks you completely out of the dream to reality, but apparently it just brings you back up to the dream state you were still alive in previously?

Alright, so has anyone mentioned what the point of Eames blowing up the snow fortress was for if you need to be kicked from a higher level?

Yeah, see this is where I was thinking he was doing that to draw Fischer and Ariadne out, but....
 
Zeliard said:
Thing of an enormous empty field. In the middle of it, there's an office building with an elevator. Each floor of that office building is self-contained, so think of them as individual dream layers. You can keep going up and down these various floors, but you have to do so in succession - you can't skip from floor 5 to floor 3 without passing floor 4. It's also possible to take the elevator back up to where you originally came from.

Eventually, down deep enough, you emerge outside, with the huge open field of nothingness awaiting you. Once there you're locked out of the office building, so you can no longer use the elevator to leave (you can't be directly kicked back up to reality). You have to get out of the field using other means - killing yourself or waiting for your time there to simply run out.

You can create and modify various things in that large field, and anyone who visits your field will see these things, but they won't have anything there until they start building their own stuff.
To expand on my harddrive example:

Think of this with only one level in mind to keep it simple. Or perhaps, all of the dream levels are part of one whole: what is written onto the machine. What is contrived and placed into it.

The architect writes things onto the machine's harddrive in this way. If you are kicked off of what's pre-written you normally would wake up. If you are heavily sedated you can't wake up. Since you aren't on what is written and you aren't waking up you have to go somewhere. You get dumped into part of the machine's harddrive that hasn't been written to yet.

Presumably Leo and Mal could've ended up in limbo without even being under any heavy sedative by using the machine without having architected anything. Maybe that's how they got there during their experiments.

I don't think in their experiments they would keep on trying to fall asleep in dreams inside of dreams inside of dreams. How silly is that? I don't see how you would eventually end up in limbo doing that.

Leo and Juno went into limbo by following Fischer Jr there with the machine on Shadow Moses.

Leo's imagination however, had automatically had some of limbo written to because he had been there before. It was in his brain, and somehow the machine passively accepted this part of his subconscious into the limbo inside of it.

Anyways, that's my current understanding of how that stuff works.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
It's simple, really: Did Cobb and Mal killed themselves to dwelve deeper into another layer called limbo in which they were happy in (the world they created) ? If not, then it's just level 4/5/whatever.

Not really. They were experimenting with dreams within dreams--Cobb says this. When it is revealed that they could go to limbo, they finger Cobb, saying he's the only one whose been there, so if they get down there, they'll have to deal with Mal.

You can reach "limbo" by going far enough within the subconscious via dreams within dreams.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
The biggest danger in the dream world is limbo--not the world of limbo itself, but because of your minds inability to separate it from reality. If you know it's not real...then you can just kill yourself. Assuming there aren't "levels" of limbo.

Yes.

In this case it happened to SAITO, he was sedated and DIED in one of the dreams because of which he went in to LIMBO. He started living in this world as if it was real and got old. That was until COBB arrived.

COBB and Ariadne came in LIMBO using the machine and not by dying. So they were fully aware that this was not the real world. So Ariadne and Fischer jump from the building to reach the level above. I think they do this because COBB tells Ariadne that he and his wife escaped LIMBO by killing themselves.

This also explains why COBB doesn't age. And when in Limbo he himself keeps forgetting that this is not the real world and must be using his TOTEM to keep him reminding that he is in LIMBO to find Saito (so that he can get back to his children). When he meet Saito he doesn't remember him. But when Saito shows TOTEM to COBB things starts making sense to him and Saito. And they wait till the timer on the machine runs out or wait till the effect of the sedative wears off or just kill each other so that they can get back to real world.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom