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[Thud]

Finished the game, what a ride! Clear data says 110:10 .

I played the game on Normal with JP voiceacting. No real surprises with plot twists. I knew something was up with Akechi and Igor from the first visit, P4's true ending taught me well lol. I do love how the scenes play out.

Hashino set a high bar for his juniors.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Finally finished this behemoth of a game. Loved it overall but I think the story was weaker than P4 especially near the end.

I also gotta say I feel bad for Goro, not in the whole "I am a traitor" thing, but I think they set up alot of stuff and didn't deliver. Like, he having the Wild Card and being the other person in the "game" Yald was playing with you was just a random one liner thrown down by the villain and never followed up on. Nobody mentions him in the epilogue, nobody really even comments on him besides on the news after his rather sudden death... hell he didn't even show up in the goddamn CREDITS. I mean really? He was in the party at one point! Couldn't even be bothered to give him a silhouette. Hell not even SHIDO mentions Goro after his change of heart!

I think it would've been better if they didn't try to wrap up Goro's character arc in Shido's dungeon. Maybe something like Goro not realizing he was tricked until the calling card is sent for Shido, then he starts freaking out. There's alot of cool stuff they could do with the "other wild card" angle; like maybe Goro accepts Yald's offer of keeping the world with everyone chained in Mementos and himself beloved by the populace; the same offer Yald made for the main character. You could fight him in a battle of wills in the Qlitoph where he's all cynical because of his life as an assassin and determines that humans deserve to have their wills shackled, maybe even citing how often the popularities of himself and the phantom thieves oscillated. He could have a messiah complex from being the chosen of Yald or something, it ties into his pathological need to be acknowledged. They really did try to set up Goro as the detective rival to your group, but like after the "reveal" Goro becomes just a midboss.

I fully expect Goro to be elaborated on in Persona 5 Crimson or whatever enhanced version comes out next.

Spoiler

I hope, because I completely agree with the above post

 

[afreaknamedpete]

I'm already getting Persona withdrawal. But there's a few more head-scratchers for me.

Like what were they going for with all the Shadow-Morgana dreams? That actually had no payoff at all.

And I'm not sure what Yald's endgame was. So... society secretly wished to give up their free will in Mementos, I can dig that. The game does kinda play into that theme and there's constant examples of bandwagoning and the strong controlling the weak in the main plot. But why does Yald go all genocidal in the end? I thought he was supposed to be a reflection of society's wishes, and while I guess it could be a rehash of the death-wish things from P3 I can't exactly say P5 heavily dealt with those themes. The best that I can come up with is that Yald just got sick of humanity and decided to fuck it and kill them all... which would fit for your standard megalomaniacal SMT god/villain but it does seem strange when they explicitly state that Yald is the personification of society's desires.

Also I'm not sure how much Yald manipulated the post-Shido events. As far as I can tell, a person has evil desires and is a general dick; this causes a Palace to form as a result. Palaces are an effect of the desires; not the cause. So following that logic, Yald wasn't suppressing everyone's belief of the Phantom Thieves post-Shido, but rather that society wanted someone to guide them so much they just ignored Shido's confession. But later on, after the phantom thieves revive from being non-existence'd, people start remembering them again... so in this case Yald manipulated society and prevented the natural media shitstorm that should have followed?

And can I give Haru the award for being the least plot relevant Persona character since Koromaru? Maybe I just hate her archetype and characterization, but like she just exists after her arc.

 

[A.J.]

I'm already getting Persona withdrawal. But there's a few more head-scratchers for me.

Like what were they going for with all the Shadow-Morgana dreams? That actually had no payoff at all.

I'm pretty sure Morgana's dreams were just flashes of his memories of being born in the velvet room.

 

[Zafir]

And can I give Haru the award for being the least plot relevant Persona character since Koromaru? Maybe I just hate her archetype and characterization, but like she just exists after her arc.

No, I totally agree and I don't really mind her personality wise.

I didn't have chance to do her SL on my first playthrough since she gets introduced so late. Due to that I really didn't care much about her. She's kind of just there.

I think the big problem is when and how she's revealed. You see her once getting into a car at the fireworks festival, and besides that you don't see her until her arc. Which brings me onto her story bit. Her introduction is completely overshadowed by Morgana having his "crisis", you get a bit of an introduction but not much.

You'd hope she'd at least get some screen time after the dungeon, but nope. Her father dies and she disappears for a bit to get over it. Mean while the group is now under fire for 'murdering' someone, and so that story takes priority over Haru even after she's back. Not to mention Akechi comes to the forefront and then you finally get to where the game started and all that good drama.

At every turn she's just stuck in the back while something else in the story takes priority. The game just doesn't offer any downtime to explore her. Futaba gets a sequence of the group trying to help her back into normal life. Makoto gets multiple scenes even before she joins the party, both at school when she's stalking everyone and at home with her sister. Yusuke has a lot of scenes leading up to the dungeon he's a part of, and joins early into the game so you see plenty of him. She didn't really get much at all.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I'm already getting Persona withdrawal. But there's a few more head-scratchers for me.

Like what were they going for with all the Shadow-Morgana dreams? That actually had no payoff at all.

And I'm not sure what Yald's endgame was. So... society secretly wished to give up their free will in Mementos, I can dig that. The game does kinda play into that theme and there's constant examples of bandwagoning and the strong controlling the weak in the main plot. But why does Yald go all genocidal in the end? I thought he was supposed to be a reflection of society's wishes, and while I guess it could be a rehash of the death-wish things from P3 I can't exactly say P5 heavily dealt with those themes. The best that I can come up with is that Yald just got sick of humanity and decided to fuck it and kill them all... which would fit for your standard megalomaniacal SMT god/villain but it does seem strange when they explicitly state that Yald is the personification of society's desires.

Also I'm not sure how much Yald manipulated the post-Shido events. As far as I can tell, a person has evil desires and is a general dick; this causes a Palace to form as a result. Palaces are an effect of the desires; not the cause. So following that logic, Yald wasn't suppressing everyone's belief of the Phantom Thieves post-Shido, but rather that society wanted someone to guide them so much they just ignored Shido's confession. But later on, after the phantom thieves revive from being non-existence'd, people start remembering them again... so in this case Yald manipulated society and prevented the natural media shitstorm that should have followed?

And can I give Haru the award for being the least plot relevant Persona character since Koromaru? Maybe I just hate her archetype and characterization, but like she just exists after her arc.

My interpretation is that Gods in personaverse are all derived from a specific aspect of people's collective unconscious. Nyx was the personification of our awareness of death. Erebus is the desire for escape and release through death (essentially despair) and Yaldaboth was specifically created from humanities desire for order and stability. Even if humans stop wishing for him, what he represents doesn't change and so his nature doesn't change. So Yaldaoboth is less humanities general desires and more one very specific and very strong desire

 

[Shouta]

My interpretation is that Gods in personaverse are all derived from a specific aspect of people's collective unconscious. Nyx was the personification of our awareness of death. Erebus is the desire for escape and release through death (essentially despair) and Yaldaboth was specifically created from humanities desire for order and stability. Even if humans stop wishing for him, what he represents doesn't change and so his nature doesn't change. So Yaldaoboth is less humanities general desires and more one very specific and very strong desire

Nyx isn't the personification of our awareness of death. Nyx IS Death, lol. It's kind of a minor difference but worth making as it plays into the story more, IMO. That Erebus is the only other entity, outside of Yaldaboth, that's specifically created from the collective unconscious of humanity.

 

[GSR]

Yeah, the game doesn't really handle Goro well. It can't seem to make up its mind as to if it wants him to be a legitimate rival for the MC/Team or just a jobber, and then it excises him from the plot so fast it makes your head spin.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Nyx isn't the personification of our awareness of death. Nyx IS Death, lol. It's kind of a minor difference but worth making as it plays into the story more, IMO. That Erebus is the only other entity, outside of Yaldaboth, that's specifically created from the collective unconscious of humanity.

I'd argue that the effect is still the same either way, and it makes more sense with how all supernatural entities seem to work in Persona imo. In my mind, you can't kill Nyx because trying to kill it is essentially just feeding into it's power because the idea of killing is intrinsically and inseparably tied to awareness of death

 

[MaximumSpider]

No, I totally agree and I don't really mind her personality wise.

I didn't have chance to do her SL on my first playthrough since she gets introduced so late. Due to that I really didn't care much about her. She's kind of just there.

I think the big problem is when and how she's revealed. You see her once getting into a car at the fireworks festival, and besides that you don't see her until her arc. Which brings me onto her story bit. Her introduction is completely overshadowed by Morgana having his "crisis", you get a bit of an introduction but not much.

You'd hope she'd at least get some screen time after the dungeon, but nope. Her father dies and she disappears for a bit to get over it. Mean while the group is now under fire for 'murdering' someone, and so that story takes priority over Haru even after she's back. Not to mention Akechi comes to the forefront and then you finally get to where the game started and all that good drama.

At every turn she's just stuck in the back while something else in the story takes priority. The game just doesn't offer any downtime to explore her. Futaba gets a sequence of the group trying to help her back into normal life. Makoto gets multiple scenes even before she joins the party, both at school when she's stalking everyone and at home with her sister. Yusuke has a lot of scenes leading up to the dungeon he's a part of, and joins early into the game so you see plenty of him. She didn't really get much at all.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought this. The whole time I'm playing through the events I'm thinking "Is Haru ever going to have more screentime?" and then it just ends. I love the cast but Haru is definitely the weakest of the group.

 

[pbayne]

Yeah, the game doesn't really handle Goro well. It can't seem to make up its mind as to if it wants him to be a legitimate rival for the MC/Team or just a jobber, and then it excises him from the plot so fast it makes your head spin.

Do you think its a case of Atlus looking at P4 culprit's popularity and trying to imitate it again.

 

[robotrock]

Adachi Akechi Adachi Akechi

I'm a fool for not realizing it sooner

 

[Qurupeke]

I really liked Akechi but the game certainly could handle him better. I was expecting him to backstab Shido and be the penultimate boss, getting a God Complex. It's a shame that for the last part he's completely absent and barely anyone mentions him, despite having such a central role. He is a character that ties everything in the game and yet he's fought as a mid boss to a Palace with 5 other bosses. And he dies completely unceremoniously to boot. Hell, the fact that he even got sort of a redemption makes me angry. He killed so many people, some of them were family members of the Phantom Thieves, and yet they seemed sad.

Also, I still feel that they could have done a lot more with Haru. Her character is sidelined a bit too much to really like her. Even if she wasn't in the game, nothing important would have changed. They didn't even tackle the fact the Phantom Thieves and her were unable to save her father. If Persona 5 Crimson is a thing later, I hope they can give her a proper character arc.

 

[A.J.]

I really liked Akechi but the game certainly could handle him better. I was expecting him to backstab Shido and be the penultimate boss, getting a God Complex. It's a shame that for the last part he's completely absent and barely anyone mentions him, despite having such a central role. He is a character that ties everything in the game and yet he's fought as a mid boss to a Palace with 5 other bosses. And he dies completely unceremoniously to boot. Hell, the fact that he even got sort of a redemption makes me angry. He killed so many people, some of them were family members of the Phantom Thieves, and yet they seemed sad.

Also, I still feel that they could have done a lot more with Haru. Her character is sidelined a bit too much to really like her. Even if she wasn't in the game, nothing important would have changed. They didn't even tackle the fact the Phantom Thieves and her were unable to save her father. If Persona 5 Crimson is a thing later, I hope they can give her a proper character arc.

The Phantom Thieves were sad because they knew Akechi was like them, but he had strayed too far down the wrong path. He was a tragic character and he got as much redemption as he deserved.

 

[afreaknamedpete]

The Phantom Thieves were sad because they knew Akechi was like them, but he had strayed too far down the wrong path. He was a tragic character and he got as much redemption as he deserved.

In the end I think Goro had about as much justification for murder as Adachi did... it's kind of a big leap to go "my father never loved me" to straight out mass murder. I might be over-reading his character but at the end when he became desperate to beat you it seemed to hint that his overall motives had less to do with Shido and more to do with his own desire to seem superior to everyone else.

I do hope for the now inevitable re-release they don't give Goro a redemption arc or let him stay in your party, he's a pretty villainous character all things considered.

Not really sure how they could fix up Haru. Alot of the Phantom Thieves had a kind of "role" or job even in the organization, even if it was somewhat tangential (Yusuke... made their logo better, Ann was a bad actress?), so once they joined it felt like the scope of their operations had increased. Like, look at Shido's ship. All the various letters they had to collect had a rather half-hearted attempt to give every character their own scene. Makoto tries to outsmart someone, Futaba geeks out, Yusuke makes a drawing and so on. Haru's problem is that she doesn't really even bring anything... hell her encounter on Shido's ship is basically just saying her father's name. Even if they added some token Haru appearances early in I don't think it'd change the superfluous nature of her character. They need to change something to give her a purpose in the group besides being the nice girl and victim.

Like, I maintain that Naoto worked great as a late game recruit since you she her before the joining in a meaningful way, she immediately changes the dynamic and scope of the group. Aigis in much the same way. Hell Goro did this really well too, even though the ultimate payoff was a bit disappointing.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Before the "reveal" that Goro is the bad guy, I really enjoyed his rapport with the rest of the group. He felt like a guest party member from the beginning, but even when he was "good" he brought something unique to the group. The Thieves all felt like outcasts and vigilantes, while Goro was an authority who sought justice in a much more stereotypical way. His all-white clothing showed his purer pursuit of justice. Seeing them team up was probably the highlight of the game for me, and part of why I liked the Casino more than any other dungeon. The group felt complete with his Green Ranger-esque presence.

He worked well as a villain too, but his character arc had a really unsatisfying ending. I really do think his absence in the end, and his ambiguous death, were done on purpose so that he can appear in spinoffs or an updated version down the line.

 

[A.J.]

In the end I think Goro had about as much justification for murder as Adachi did... it's kind of a big leap to go "my father never loved me" to straight out mass murder. I might be over-reading his character but at the end when he became desperate to beat you it seemed to hint that his overall motives had less to do with Shido and more to do with his own desire to seem superior to everyone else.

"Father never loved me" is a bit of a downplay. As Akechi said his life was a scandal and he constantly moved from foster home to foster home without ever really being wanted. And it's important to note that the Phantom Thieves don't want people to die for their crimes but instead atone.

 

[Sciel]

I really liked Akechi but the game certainly could handle him better. I was expecting him to backstab Shido and be the penultimate boss, getting a God Complex. It's a shame that for the last part he's completely absent and barely anyone mentions him, despite having such a central role. He is a character that ties everything in the game and yet he's fought as a mid boss to a Palace with 5 other bosses. And he dies completely unceremoniously to boot. Hell, the fact that he even got sort of a redemption makes me angry. He killed so many people, some of them were family members of the Phantom Thieves, and yet they seemed sad.

Also, I still feel that they could have done a lot more with Haru. Her character is sidelined a bit too much to really like her. Even if she wasn't in the game, nothing important would have changed. They didn't even tackle the fact the Phantom Thieves and her were unable to save her father. If Persona 5 Crimson is a thing later, I hope they can give her a proper character arc.

I think Goro needed his own palace (in fact i was actually expecting it to happen before they decided to cram it all into Shido's palace). Having cognitive(?)/shadow Goro being in Shido's palace just seemed lazy.

As for Haru, I don't think they can actually do much with her character tbh, the way she is written is just...bland? They could easily make her have more of a role in the game though.
1) Have her act as a meet the party or act guest character of sorts in some of the earlier dungeons. Hell, she could be the navigator up till you get Futaba.
2) Have her S.Link open up much earlier, but obviously gate it till the events of the 5th Dungeon (rewrites needed here obviously).

 

[SkylineRKR]

I agree about Haru, before that point I felt the band was sort of complete. Her introduction was funny but that the same time that whole arc with Morgana defecting was bad. And I didn't have her baton pass until after the 6th dungeon for both charm requirement (I think) and social links. So I pretty much only used her during the endgame. She joined too late. I wouldn't mind it if she was a guest character for the 5th dungeon only.

But this is a gripe I have with the game in general, new chars are always gimped even though they're plot wise essential in their first dungeon. It was esp. ridiculous with Yusuke, I beat that dungeon quick and I think I had to wait 3 weeks for his first s link.

As for Goro, he was a good character but yet another one with daddy issues. I do think he'll be back. I never really wasted a slot on him in the party though, outside of the beginning. He said he was temporary, and had everything unlocked, and I rather build the main cast.

 

[Son of Flounder]

130 hours and I'm done. I feel really stupid for not figuring out Igor was an imposter after the drastic change of voice from the previous games. I at least knew Sketchy Akechi would stab us in the back, he was too smarmy and smiley all the time and reminded me of Adachi. I like the way they have him skulking right at the back of the subway away from the others in the title screen.

I was thinking of New Game+ but decided against it. Shido's palace was way too long, why did they have to repeat those mouse sections so many times? Okumura's palace had some frustrating sections as well. I prefer the crafted palaces over the randomly generated stuff in the previous games and having Mementos as a Tartarus like experience, but they made some strange choices with their level design. Also, having several sections where you can't save for over an hour was a bit annoying.

If the above is fixed in a P5 Crimson edition with some new content I would definitely play it again.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Shido's palace would've been better off without the mouse sections. I liked the areas where you had to persuade the boss.

Dungeon 5 was average, design and music wise. Dungeon 6 was a highlight. The first 4 were all good.

 

[Shouta]

Haru's late introduction is absolutely the biggest problem with P5, IMO. Atlus really needs to change that for P6 if and when they do it because the characters get a lot less time to grow and interact with such late introductions.

I think moving away from using only one arc to introduce and highlight a character will help them alleviate this problem.

 

[hermitpurple]

Dungeon 7 spoilers

Spoiler

Why is the game trying to get me to sympathize with Akechi. Not only is he not likable, his boo hoo back story is the most tired shit ever. Like the dude has killed a whole bunch of people and the group doesn't even think to change his heart. His crimes are way worse than those committed by the others they targeted

 

[SkylineRKR]

They don't really sympathize with him. They say they won't forgive him for his crimes. What they see though is another youth thats being used and abused like themselves. The difference is that MC was guided by Morgana at first and didn't walk the path of revenge. He led a normal social life and made buddies. He was never chasing the man who screwed him, it just happened to be the guy pulling the strings.

Akechi however never found peace, wasn't guided and used his powers to get back at everyone when he became a trickster. His youth as being an unwanted and illegitimate son and his mother dying was more fucked up than that of MC though, who was only sent on probation for a minor offense. He was popular at some point, but just as quickly cast away by the public when the Thieves became huge. I think he had valid reasons to hate people, but his murders are inexcusable. I think they would've handed him in after Shido has been dealt with.

His personality has always been rotten though. He had a clear inferiority complex and daddy issues. He only wanted to succeed at college to beat others, and he resented the MC for living in an attic and being happy with it. I agree that they acted a bit too friendly when he sacrificed himself. They could've said that he ultimately asked for it or something.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I forgot about that attic line. That was brutal, and really sold me on Akechi's true personality.

 

[vkrili]

the group doesn't even think to change his heart.

They can't change his heart. Anyone with an awakened Persona can't have a Palace.

 

[Suikoguy]

They can't change his heart. Anyone with an awakened Persona can't have a Palace.

That's interesting. Where in the game is that explained?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

That's interesting. Where in the game is that explained?

At least a couple of times throughout the game. The first was very early on, by Morgana.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Finished the game. 101 hours. Really, really great game. Best Persona game in the series and best story/writing overall even though P3 still has the best and most satisfying ending of the new era P3-P5. Mona is the best character.

Spoiler

I was upset when they started picking on him leading to his depression

.

It's late and I'm tired so will write up a bunch of thoughts in a day or two. I got to the final save and then remembered how ridiculous and forced grindy megaten final bosses have been recently, so I pre-emptively grinded for a few hours, and got top tier metatron-type persona and then the final boss actually wasn't really any tougher than the previous bosses and I kinda steamrolled it in a few mins...whoops. For a final megaten boss wasn't really impressed by the boss fight. If you're buffing your party and debuffing the boss it didn't really seem to attack much, just do the status stuff so it didn't feel particularly threatening like a major boss fight.

Spoiler

Shido seemed more like a major boss to me with all his forms. For the final boss when they were showing the people cheering and bringing the meter to 100% and the party gets back up and persona upgrade mech comes, I totally thought we were getting part 3 of the final boss fight for some epic fight...and then you press a button to win -_-);

wasn't huge on the final boss music although I liked the music in the short last part of it but it's no SMT3 Maniax or P3 final boss theme. I liked the vocal boss music for the fights before a lot better.

Anyhow, when I got to the final boss I had this moment where I was kinda was like what the fuck am I doing story-wise. Like, I think the plot is really good in P5 but then kinda climaxes at the

Spoiler

Akechi fight which came way earlier than expected and despite him being in the whole game his character still feels a bit rushed and undeveloped in the end, but that fight and conclusion was fantastic

and then the

Spoiler

Shido fight and arc end is weird because him being kinda the FINAL BOSS behind everything you would expect things to not go the same as always, but he takes some pills and the party still gets away in an anime sequence and then he confesses and it's like kinda ...uneventful when it should have been the huge satisfying climax to the tale.

And then the story kinda jumps the shark imo,

Spoiler

Like the Igor reveal is AWESOME and since I guessed the Akechi thing before it happened, the Igor reveal was the first time the game just completely took me by surprise. The way they made everyone think the voice had changed because the VA had passed away since P4 so it seemed like instead of trying to have someone new copy his style, they were going for a new direction, but then 90 hours later holy shit huge twist out of nowhere it's actually because it was an imposter and then real Igor comes back with an Igor voice was just absolutely amazing twist moment.

And the endgame still had lots of great moments like giant mecha persona upgrade for the MC.

But the more I thought about it, the more I thought the whole enjoyment and plot of Persona 5 was a fantasy take on reality where it's a group of HS kids (who all look like college kids outside Futaba) vs. the inner persona of abusive adults. The way the cast fought back with style and the way the game is very in tune with modern culture and internet opinion and popular opinion swaying cultural movement is all really great. In the end there's a bad guy (Shido) who also discovered this power and it's bad guy adult using it for evil vs. good guy youths using it for good head 2 head combat. P5 was a story about people.

...and then it becomes an SMT game where you go and fight the god of the world.
......you go and fight god
..........bunch of jrpg teenagers fighting a god in the end
what

Like the whole "the public is acting weird! We have to go to mementos and steal the heart of it -> MEMENTOS IS NOW MERGING WITH REALITY BONE DUNGEONS IN SHIBUYA -> Go fight angels -> go fight god" section of the game just feels really out of place when I stopped to think about it. It was like "hey we're making a jrpg so we gotta make the party go and fight god on a universal epic scale in the end" instead of being a vs. Prime Minister of Japan which is still a freaking huge scale but it's not world ending scale.

I mean it even has the generic jrpg trope thing of the heroes are about to lose in their fight against god and then you cut to everyone down below cheering and praying and believing in them and it repowers them up and then that's how they win! It's...extremely out of character for how fresh and creative and counter the rest of the story is in a sea of generic rpgs. I mean group of phantom thieves taking down a dirty politician in an election for prime minister of Japan going through his inner persona world of a cruise ship? That's the kinda of stuff that reminds me why I like Megaten and it stands out from the sea of other rpgs. Fighting god while people cheer your party on? Not so much.

It feels like the true end stuff in P4, but I think in P5 it would have worked better if it was handled like P4's true end. Where P5 could have an Akechi/Shido ending that's awesome and satisfying, and then there could be a true ending path after the credit role about the "true hidden secrets behind everything! where you go and fight god". I just feel the tonal change for the last 10-15 hours is weird.

Before that part I was enjoying the game more for the story (although the challenge picked up on the bosses in the 2nd half of Shido's boat and that was fun), but in that end section it was the opposite where the gameplay was fun as hell and I was having a great time while kinda just accepting the sorta generic jrpg story going on. I'm pretty tired of final god boss speeches humans don't know what's best for them, need to all be wiped out and new world, blah blah blah, after enough rpgs the final god boss speeches all seem to sound the same.

But what's kind of interesting is that after all that is done and it starts snowing and the MC meets with the detective, it's almost like this could take place right after the Shido arc conclusion. Like Shido goes on air and confesses and then the detective meets with the MC and says to make this work they're going to need him to turn himself in -> goes through the ending. Like you can kinda cut out that entire jrpg god killing fantasy arc out of the game and it would flow as a closer to reality-contained story about people just fine. Which I was already trying to just perceive the story that way at that point and I think over time I'll just try to forget that whole weird god-killing section and then the story is mostly great although it still needed a more satisfying conclusion with a bit more punch for the end of the Shido arc considering the scale at stake. Also the reason you can basically cut it out and the story would still flow and work is another reason why I think that stuff should have been put aside for a true end after-credit path. It was done well enough and had some good moments/lines but it was definitely kinda shark jumping.

Still, a really entertaining tale with great writing and excellent narrative arcs. I think the best most memorable arcs and when I liked the game the most was Yuusukue, Makato and Futaba. The middle section when you're meeting new characters, going through fun dungeons, and getting more popular with society is super fun and really fantastic. I think Haru's arc was a bit weak and her character in the end always felt kind of an extra. I think she just comes in too late in the plot, doesn't have a lot of personality because she's a quiet reserved type and so she comes across as a bit undeveloped and just sorta there as opposed to feeling like part of the main team. The rest of the cast that is the main team though is fantastic and has a great dynamic together. I loved Futaba's trolling and Yuusuke's deadpan. I definitely want to check out the anime now since I could totally watch middle of the game era team going on adventures all day long.

Very good game.

I just came upon this post by re-reading the thread and completely agree. I wish I had more to say but this pretty much elaborates on all of my thoughts already. VERY solid game but December feels rushed compared to the rest. The Igor twist was sort of worth it, but it could have come without the massive change in tone.

Goro deserved more screen time at the end as well. His position as another wildcard user was totally wasted.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I didn't like the post- Shido game either. Having to go through mementos again was cheap enough (though I unlocked all areas, I only had to rush a few floors). That linear dungeon underneath with almost no way to avoid combat was annoying as fuck. Hardly any save points, constant tile puzzles and Morgana saying the treasure is near not far from the start but an hour later I still wasn't there.

Velvet room was good, I give it that. But the area after it was rushed as well, with no option to buy stuff (or sell..). Was I playing the game with youngsters who stood up against authorities and traversed through excellent dungeons such as the Casino or Kaneshiro's Palace? It made a 180 there and I know the god beating trope by now. I clocked 100 hours when Shido confessed, I wouldn't have minded if the game ended there.

 

[Holundrian]

Said it before that I think it might have been better to make the whole god thing more opt in in a similar fashion to maybe P4G where you could have a rather good ending without ever discovering the gas attendant secret.
But I also wonder how many people would have been content with that ending knowing that there is something beyond it.

 

[MaximumSpider]

Haru's late introduction is absolutely the biggest problem with P5, IMO. Atlus really needs to change that for P6 if and when they do it because the characters get a lot less time to grow and interact with such late introductions.

I think moving away from using only one arc to introduce and highlight a character will help them alleviate this problem.

They could do what they did with Naoto and have them appear frequently throughout the game. The problem with Haru is that she appeared during the limo scene and a few times throughout school but none of it was important and just felt like an afterthought. She just joins and that's it. At least Naoto helps piece together the events of the last few months.

 

[Vanadium]

Adachi Akechi Adachi Akechi

I'm a fool for not realizing it sooner

Yep, but I was looking for the gas station attendant equivalent this time and it never materialized.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Finished the game a few nights ago and post Persona depression has already set in. It's probably my goty at this point. As a first time SMT/Persona player I didn't know if I should expect the story to get so JRPG tropey near the end (killing God, etc), but the game pulled it off well enough imo. Had no idea what triggered any of the bad endings, so I was super on edge during moments like the cast fading from existence and "Igor" saying I failed. Tension was insane for me there.

Sunset Bridge is one of my favorite songs on the OST (it affects me super hard, idk why), so that playing during the final day where you make the rounds Earthbound-style to say goodbye to everyone wrecked me. Didn't tear up or anything, but goddamn...the feels. Haven't been this invested in a game in so fucking long. I was worried the game might not stick the landing, but nearly everything after killing Yaldabaoth was executed damn near perfectly imo. I hate that so many games seem to end moments after the climax/killing the final boss, and a game this long deserved a lengthy, satisfying ending. It absolutely delivered for me.

Need P5 Crimson or P6 like next week.

edit - if an enhanced version of P5 is ever released can we 1. have a unique boss theme for Akechi and 2. get a do over on that Yaldabaoth boss theme thx

 

[FluxWaveZ]

One thing that was a bit disappointing is that, because of several factors, catharsis was at its peak with Kamoshida's confession.

Things weren't as personal with Madarame (it was also the second time it happened), we didn't get to see anything with Kenshiro, Okumura's was overshadowed by the rising tension going on (his inevitable death that is shown to the viewer, the uncomfortable rising popularity of the Phantom Thieves...), and Shido's was alright, but fell kinda flat because the populace wasn't reacting to it much (due to Yaldabaoth).

 

[Chase17]

Can't believe Morgana strategically decided to hijack the protagonist's welcome home party. A true friend!

I'll post some more in depth thoughts tomorrow, but I enjoyed the game a lot.

 

[Alucrid]

i don't get why you leave at the end of this game. it makes sense at the end of 3 because you...well you know and in 4 your parents were just abroad for a year, but in 5 didn't they disown you and get rid of you because of the incident with shido? who the fuck wants to go back to that

 

[FluxWaveZ]

i don't get why you leave at the end of this game. it makes sense at the end of 3 because you...well you know and in 4 your parents were just abroad for a year, but in 5 didn't they disown you and get rid of you because of the incident with shido? who the fuck wants to go back to that

I don't think it's that they disowned the P5MC, but that they were legally bound by it. Everything resolves itself and his probation comes to an end so, naturally, his parents would probably want him coming back.

A weird thing about how we take the ending now, given the Persona 4 spin-offs, is that we're kinda made to consider how it ends in a light beyond the scope of the actual game. The characters are "free" from their Phantom Thief powers? Well, they're gonna be getting them back in P5A or P5D. Akechi got "killed" off-screen? Well, he's gonna be back in a sequel. Morgana talking about how he'll continue working towards becoming human? We'll likely see how that looks like in one of the spin-offs. It's a bit unfortunate, but I'll try not to think of that when thinking about the value of P5's actual ending.

 

[Novum_Veritas]

What carries over to NG plus?
Read that you have to redo the social links from the beginning?

 

[Alucrid]

I don't think it's that they disowned the P5MC, but that they were legally bound by it. Everything resolves itself and his probation comes to an end so, naturally, his parents would probably want him coming back.

maybe i missed something or don't understand japan, but why was that? legally bound to send their kid away? or the kid had to be sent away but the parents didn't go with him?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

maybe i missed something or don't understand japan, but why was that? legally bound to send their kid away? or the kid had to be sent away but the parents didn't go with him?

It was explained as part of the setup. I guess with Shido's influence, that's just the deal that everyone managed to come up with in court. Like, instead of being sent immediately to juvenile hall, a deal was cut for him to be put on probation, in a place other than where his crime took place (with it being implied he comes from a small town ala Inaba). He ends up going to Shujin, with them being one of the only schools who would accept someone with his record (which they talk about at the start).

 

[texhnolyze]

Finished the game, what a ride! Clear data says 110:10 .

I played the game on Normal with JP voiceacting. No real surprises with plot twists. I knew something was up with Akechi and Igor from the first visit, P4's true ending taught me well lol. I do love how the scenes play out.

Hashino set a high bar for his juniors.

Yeah, I feel like I've watched Anime and played JPRGs enough to not be surprised with the plot twist.

Also, it seems that the writers are huge fans of Death Note. Lots of references here and there.

So what are the requirements for the true ending anyway? Im sure I wont get it but I'd like to know.

Yes, but depending on how much confidants that you maxed out by the end of the game, you'll be able to increase those arcana levels faster in NG+.

 

[Solemn_In_Berlin]

Yalbadoth is a pretty fantastic villain and one that works perfectly with what they're doing in the game. It really manages to, along with the other individual stories, to hit all of the broader cultural conflicts that Japan is having. For folks that understand Japan on that level (why, not just what), the boss is really a cherry on top of a banana split.

Elaborate on this literary reading, please. I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Shadow Shido is Japanese Armstrong 0_0

He rides around in a big dumb thing, takes of his shirt to power up, and punches the shit out of things!

 

[Apharmd]

Beat it on Hard at 101 hours. I fucking loved the game.

People said it stumbles near the end but I disagree. It gets real cheesy but I feel like it sticks the landing. The ending was long and thorough. As silly as it sounds, it helps to say goodbye to the game, especially after no-lifing and investing a shitload of my time into it.

Also holy cow man, this game gets real. True to the contract that you sign before everything else starts that declared that if the player cannot separate fiction from reality, then the player should not play this game. Like, I would love to see analysis and research that just demonstrates how close Persona 5 hits with Japan's society. That said, I wanted to say that while I don't fully understand how popular Shido was with the masses in the game because I'm not aware of the real world counterpart, but I was able to understand and swallow the context.

Dude committed crimes, straight up admits it, cried about it and then is effectively still forgiven by the populace. His machinations continued on without him. It's horrible and it boiled down to human desires of wanting to live a simple, risk-free life. But it wasn't silly and it wasn't unnecessary. I think it was very much needed to literally embody Japan's collective suffocating need for perception and order above justice into an entity in order to drive the message home. I mean, we're already in wish-fulfillment territory that students being terrorized and oppressed by highly decorated faculty could literally turn nowhere else but to use fantasy powers to force the criminal to admit what he's doing, and in turn upset the system and end the abuse. Might as well go all the fucking way and quite literally fight the system.

---

On a side note, I played with Japanese voices and I absolutely loved them. I am however, biased because I love Japanese robot anime and this cast list is stuffed full of veterans. I will only talk about a few right now because I'm tired as hell.

MC/Akira Kurusu: Jun Fukuyama, also known as Lelouch from Code Geass: Lelouch's Rebellion. As superficial as this is, I was still enthralled that he was put in as another mild-mannered, secretly treasonous bastard with a hidden identity that loved grand theatricality.

Ryuuji Sakamoto: Mamoru Miyano, known as Setsuna F. Seiei from Gundam 00. My favorite Gundam series and a voice I'm smitten with. The game sometimes devolved down to my listening to the lead of Gundam 00 saying stupid shit all day long and I mean that in the best context.

But other than those two, there was a casting choice that stood out above all else to me.

Masayoshi Shido: Shuichi Ikeda, best known as Char Aznable from Mobile Suit Gundam. I didn't recognize him at first because we just knew him as the drunk wanker who ruined the MC's life. And then when his smooth voice came on air in a cutscene, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I'd actually like to talk about this for a bit because of the deliberate intent of picking Char Aznable's voice actor for this role as a charismatic politician. Okay, it may be silly to say "deliberate intent" because obviously no actor can be cast without a decision. However, understanding Char Aznable and his lionized, Darth Vader-like popularity in Japan does put uncomfortable parallels with Shido's in-game popularity.

Let's get a few things out of the way. Char Aznable is a villain. A tragic villain yes, but a villain nonetheless. He does scumbag things like betray comrades, attempt mass genocide and cannot maintain human relationships to save his life. The man is a genius pilot, a relatively strong Newtype (psychic people in Gundam) and an S-grade manchild, when all the glitz, glamour and fancy red robots are taken away. That is what makes him compelling to me, as a character. But his charisma radiates beyond the show. It sells toys. Merchandise. People cosplay as him. They can recite his lines from memory. Like I said, his popularity in Japan mirrors that of Darth Vader. The Japanese unironically love Char despite him being a shitty person.

Don't think that the game is not aware of this. His shadow in the Palace dons battle gear that is very Char-esque and even mirrors the Gundam character's costume colors. It is when that raiment is stripped away that the real fight begins against this charismatic politician. With all this said, I don't believe that Shido being a scumbag is necessarily a critique aimed at Gundam fans who like Char. I do feel that it serves as a sharp message speaking out against supporting politicians who will lie, cheat and destroy to get what they feel they deserve. Char is fiction, but votes are real.


Oh, also:

Sun Social Link/No-Good-Tora: Keiichi Noda, also known as Tetsuya Tsurugi. Great Mazinger's pilot and one of my favorite social links in the game. I thought the character was legit fucking cool, man. His Rank 10 scene is probably one of the sweetest things a politician could say.

There's so much more I could type about this game but for now, sleep.

 

[Apharmd]

Yalbadoth is a pretty fantastic villain and one that works perfectly with what they're doing in the game. It really manages to, along with the other individual stories, to hit all of the broader cultural conflicts that Japan is having. For folks that understand Japan on that level (why, not just what), the boss is really a cherry on top of a banana split.

Elaborate on this literary reading, please. I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff.

Seconding. I THINK I understand, but I would like to see as well.

 

[squall23]

I didn't get an answer from the OT so I'll ask here.

Does Caroline and Justine (or anybody else) give subtle hints to characters of previous games like what Margaret did?

 

[ErzaScarlet77]

is it possible that the girl shido assaulted in the beginning of the game is goro's mom?

 

[preta]

is it possible that the girl shido assaulted in the beginning of the game is goro's mom?

His mom is dead.

I'd be very interested in reading takes on what specific elements of Japanese culture and politics the game was informed by. Also, why Yaldabaoth is supposedly so good - I feel like I almost get it, but not entirely.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Yaldabaoth wasn't a Deus ex machina so its hard to cut that piece out. The chains and shackles are the theme of this game and the Igor thing was there right from the start. Hell, disagree with the disclaimer at the beginning. So ofcourse the game had to go beyond Shido. If I like it is another matter. The ending wasn't rushed, thats for sure. They didn't end on a 'a winner is you' note.

One thing that was a bit disappointing is that, because of several factors, catharsis was at its peak with Kamoshida's confession.

Things weren't as personal with Madarame (it was also the second time it happened), we didn't get to see anything with Kenshiro, Okumura's was overshadowed by the rising tension going on (his inevitable death that is shown to the viewer, the uncomfortable rising popularity of the Phantom Thieves...), and Shido's was alright, but fell kinda flat because the populace wasn't reacting to it much (due to Yaldabaoth).

For me it was just that the Kamoshida arc was too good. He personally fucked with Ryuji, Ann and MC. He did all this shit at your own school and no one could touch him. A villain I loved to hate. You had this hideout at your school and you were targeting a teacher of your school, it was small time and good. Not surprisingly Ann and Ryuji kinda lose relevance because of their huge shit with Kamoshida being solved.

Madarame wasn't personal, but his story was good at least.

Kenshiro was filler. The game tries to tie him with Makoto but all she did was opening her big mouth and be abducted for it. Kenshiro didn't know her. And he threatened with pictures from an adult bar.

But part of the plot is that they lose sight of themselves and focus on public opinion too much. Thats why the targets become gradually bigger. I sort of expected them to also target the Principal earlier on in the game, I hated that guy. But it never happened.