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[SPOILERS] Persona 5 Spoiler Thread | Steal your heart; steel yourself

Eumi

Member
Having let the game settle, I'd say it's probably a great but somewhat uneven game.

Like, the first dungeon is literally the best persona has ever been. But then the next few dungeons are kinda just persona autopilot.

Shame that Haru gets kinda screwed. Making her confidant require a level 5 stat was incredibly boneheaded since she doesn't get anywhere near enough play in the main story as many have explained here. Which is a real shame since she's actually a great character. Her relationship with her dad is not only interesting, but it's an important moment for the theives as a whole as their big failure. Plus she has a link to Morgana that doesn't go through the mc, which opens up some new character playoffs. But, again, they just don't take advantage of that.

I did like Akechi though. I'm pretty happy with his whole deal. It was a bit too obvious that he was the traitor, but they saved that by making the reveal more about the Mc's survival than Akechi's betrayal. However, I cannot fucking believe how much of a slam dunk they missed with him. Dude is a detective, is the rival of our mc who uses Arsene, has a powerful persona, and it's finally revealed to be... Robin Hood.

Because, hey, who even knows about the whole Lupin Holmes rivalry? Aside from everyone who played the game since they explain it. They even had a second chance, free of the thief theming, but they just went for Loki. Which is fine since it reinforces that he's a fool/ wild card but still.

Aside from those two the rest of the cast are far stronger than in previous games. Futaba and Makoto are standouts with how their personal situations tie into the main plot so well, but I especially loved how Ryuji got an animated cutscene in Shido's palace just to resolve his running arc from all the way back in the first dungeon. The game really cared about its cast.

The bosses were pretty damn lame until Sae, but after that it 180'd into pretty much the best bosses of the series. Shido is really the standout fight for me. His buff form punching fear into you spoke so much about his own self image without the need for clumsy dialogue, something p4 kinda failed at despite the game revolving around it. And that last boss was great. Mechanically.

But then there's the fact that the last boss comes out of nowhere and is just a lazy mix of p3 and p4's final bosses. A big evil god who thinks they're doing the right thing that oneshots the party before the mc gets a new persona from friendship powers. They did absolutely nothing with the phantom thief theme for it. There wasn't any trickery or skill, it was just hit it with superpowers. The Igor reveal was neat, but even then they coulda done more with it. A fight against Igor before the reveal would have been a great moment.

Music isn't really hit or miss, it's more like it's a rung above hit or miss. It's either decent or the best the series has seen. Rivers in the Desert is my favourite boss theme, but I couldn't even tell you what the normal boss or final boss themes sounded like, other than they were fine.

Only real thing left to say is Sojiro was way better than I expected him to be. I love that he gets fully involved with the plot. Honestly I wish he was a party member.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
At some point, Sojiro cools down and I thought 'yeah, this is a great character'. I think its when he finds the calling card.
 

Platypus

Member
The way they handled Akechi was so disappointing. They spent most of the game building him up as a legitimate rival, yet in the end he turns out to be just a scumbag with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Not to mention he gets quickly swept aside shortly after his turnheel. Such wasted potential.
 
Sojiro is the best father figure of the mc. I don't think Dojima would have been willing to go to jail for P4 MC, and they are actual family.

Edit: also, Morgana fixing a van engine is hilarious.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Can someone tell me the true nature of Igor and the Velvet room please? Where can I read stuff about them?

I suppose they're explained in greater details in the Persona games before 3?

Nyx isn't the personification of our awareness of death. Nyx IS Death, lol. It's kind of a minor difference but worth making as it plays into the story more, IMO. That Erebus is the only other entity, outside of Yaldaboth, that's specifically created from the collective unconscious of humanity.

One of the reasons why I always thought P3's MC was incredible--Izanami and Yold seem like chump compared to Nyx, and he's the only one who gets hold of the Universe card, instead of just World.
 
Where the hell is Haru at on 3/19? I can't find her anywhere! I figured she'd be on the school roof, but no go.

Edit

Just found her never mind
 
The way they handled Akechi was so disappointing. They spent most of the game building him up as a legitimate rival, yet in the end he turns out to be just a scumbag with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Not to mention he gets quickly swept aside shortly after his turnheel. Such wasted potential.

Yeah, I expected more from the character tbh. After that scenes, I keep waiting for his return but he never returns.
 
Akechi's analysis of the Phantom Thieves (at least tv-interview Akechi and not murderous ridiculous plot-twist Akechi) was exactly how people should have viewed the Phantom Thieves, and it was kind of frustrating that he was the only one to hold or even understand that viewpoint throughout the entire experience.

From the public's perspective, trusting the Phantom Thieves truly should have been considered foolish because their methods were unknown. The ends being justified by unknown means (from the public's perspective) should have been a bigger cause for concern that even the Phantom Thieves themselves should've acknowledged. It would've been logical for an average Joe to assume that some form of blackmail or ill-gained leverage was involved in any change-of-heart.
 
Finally beat the game, Cup of Noodle God got Juan Deaged. Maybe because I was rushing, but it felt like it dragged on at the ending.

The scenario was very similar to Persona 3 ending.
 
So was this answered before. How did Arsene turn into giant robot and where did that bullet come from?

The power of people and anime! I never bothered with it tbh.

Anyway, there's one thing that I've been wondering. At the end of palace 6, the party got separated, right? Did the game explained where did everyone go? How did Akechi know that Joker is heading that way to escape? Why are the police only placed in that area? How about everyone else in the group, how did they escape? I take it the poiice didn't actually surround the building? But it'll still be pretty hard to mobilize that amount of people around the building without knowing the escape route beforehand.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I think capturing the leader was their priority. The rest would be ratted out anyway.

It was also set up by the thieves themselves, fiddling with distortions and all. Maybe they hid in a different world like MC does in the interrogation room?
 
I think capturing the leader was their priority. The rest would be ratted out anyway.

It was also set up by the thieves themselves, fiddling with distortions and all. Maybe they hid in a different world like MC does in the interrogation room?

Yeah, I think I remember Akechi mentioning the leader capture priority, and that's fine.

It's the polices' position that's been bothering me. Eh, I guess it's no big deal.
 
I've been trying to figure out the significance of the final kill shot. I think I just got it.

I don't know enough about Japan's current social and political landscape to fully understand everything going on with Yaldabaoth, but it seems he at least represents apathy and prioritizing "saving face" over actual justice, which is a recurring theme with literally every target.

So Joker's ultimate Persona is naturally whom SMT essentially considers the ultimate rebel against authority, but I didn't really get why the final shot consisted of the Seven Deadly Sins. Like, the final attacks in P3 and P4 were very straightforward, but I didn't get this one right away because the Sins are obviously bad things as opposed to, say,
Myriad Truths
from P4.

Taking down every villain is about exposing their crimes and getting justice for the victims instead of sweeping the crimes under the rug and maintaining the status quo. So when you go up against Yaldabaoth and his bit about apathy and willful imprisonment, you take the Sins and shoot a hole through his head with them to force them to be undeniable. It's not subtle at all, but I didn't get it right away because I couldn't think of a way for using them to be righteous.

(Also, knowing that Joker's ultimate Persona is goddamn Satan certainly adds all kinds of fun meaning to Arsene's dialogue during that awakening).
 

Jintor

Member
oh it feels so good to have all that tension release. not at credits yet but just doing that last post good-bye wander.

lmao they borrowed a van to replicate the monabus to go home!

oh man this is so much more fun than the lonely train ride home.

FIN
 

Jintor

Member
Tossing out some thoughts as they come to me because I need to jot them down since I have work tomorrow

- I think everyone saw the Akechi twist coming, they hint at it so heavily. That said they do a decent job running up to it with his goofy scene in the cafe and you never quite figuring out his actual motiations. once he breaks though he breaks hard and becomes your bog standard sneering villain on a CULPRIT scale. His storyline overall ends kind of lamely to my mind. Also he was a total asshole because he ambushed me and I had to down a Soma to stay competitive where I was. That said, I think I only became really suspicious when I noticed he doesn't give a library book to check out. I never even got to see his All Out Attack finisher, though I presume he has one.

I was half expecting Sae to take his place after the November revalations, lmao.

- the Igor twist is really great though, it completely blindsided me and I didn't even think to double think about the voice change and having the OG Igor return as well was the cherry on top. Who it actually turned out to be (society made another god that wants to fuck everything up, whoopee) was pretty lame but the boss encounter was nice and grand and it looked damn good.

- The overall pacing is one of those things you look back on and it makes sense but at the time it felt really uneven and janky. I understand why the targets where who they are but the time it took to set up 'villains of the week' for each arc, outside of Kamoshida and to a lesser extent Madarame, was less impressive. The Yakuza thug was more or less unrelated to Makoto in terms of personalness, so that whole dungeon was just a big threat looming but with no real connection (though the bad end for that dungeon is really quite something). By contrast Dungeon 4, the closest to the P4 style of target dungeoneering, was dope as fuck since you maintain that relationship with the target all the way through. It was a bit disappointing that even Shio or whatever his name was kind of was a bit of a wet fart of a boss, even if you knew he was a patsy for the real supernatural evil that was the big bad (if you'd played P4/P3 before).

- i'm very tired and need to sleep
 
Akechi's analysis of the Phantom Thieves (at least tv-interview Akechi and not murderous ridiculous plot-twist Akechi) was exactly how people should have viewed the Phantom Thieves, and it was kind of frustrating that he was the only one to hold or even understand that viewpoint throughout the entire experience.

From the public's perspective, trusting the Phantom Thieves truly should have been considered foolish because their methods were unknown. The ends being justified by unknown means (from the public's perspective) should have been a bigger cause for concern that even the Phantom Thieves themselves should've acknowledged. It would've been logical for an average Joe to assume that some form of blackmail or ill-gained leverage was involved in any change-of-heart.

I kind of wonder if that's supposed to be an early hint about how people will perceive the Phantom Thieves later. Like, it should have been a warning sign that people didn't really care about the methods they used, they just wanted to see some bad guys eat dirt. The public is fickle and shallow.

oh it feels so good to have all that tension release. not at credits yet but just doing that last post good-bye wander.

lmao they borrowed a van to replicate the monabus to go home!

oh man this is so much more fun than the lonely train ride home.

FIN

The roadtrip is the best ending idea.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Also I like how our trickster ain't a sucka who needs the world arcana to take down a mere god, he can take it down fine without it.

Still ain't good enough for the universe though.
 

Holundrian

Unconfirmed Member
It's very interesting that while Persona 5 seems to be very unified about it's greatness as a whole. I see a lot of divisiveness regarding it's high and low points.
Almost feels like I've seen it all now people that hate and love every dungeon, character, story arc, etc to the highest and lowest degrees.
 
P4 ending is LITERALLY perfect.

The MC has to leave his friends behind because his time is up, he doesn't want to leave, but he goes with the strength and passion that his new comrades taught him. He also knows he will see them some time in the future. This is EXACTLY what the player is feeling. You don't want to leave these new friends, this great little town, you want to keep going and going and going with these people you've bonded with, but you can't. The game is over, Yu has to return home, and the game has to end for you. But the bonds you've formed, the memories you made, those will remain with both of you for as long as you remember.

I love Persona 5, but the game doesn't have the courage to know to balance sorrow and happiness together. It is all winning, all style, all the time.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
P4 ending is LITERALLY perfect.

The MC has to leave his friends behind because his time is up, he doesn't want to leave, but he goes with the strength and passion that his new comrades taught him. He also knows he will see them some time in the future. This is EXACTLY what the player is feeling. You don't want to leave these new friends, this great little town, you want to keep going and going and going with these people you've bonded with, but you can't. The game is over, Yu has to return home, and the game has to end for you. But the bonds you've formed, the memories you made, those will remain with both of you for as long as you remember.

I love Persona 5, but the game doesn't have the courage to know to balance sorrow and happiness together. It is all winning, all style, all the time.

I think it's more like doing the same ending again would be kinda lame. They're already pushing it by going a third time with the whole "THESE ARE THE DESIRES OF HUMANITY BLAH BLAH BLAH HOW CAN THE DESIRES OF THE FEW TRIUMPH OVER THE MANY WELL DONE CHILDREN OF MEN"

I dunno, fits this crew better. P4 are a bunch of chumps who can't do things without their parents permission and P5 are a punch of punks who don't have a care as long as it's a good time.
 

kadotsu

Banned
Why didn't they make Morgana the new master of the Velvet Room? They almost had a great sendoff for Igor. Instead they chose to not go through with it to the end and have a reunion scene at the end that 2x2 Shinobuden made fun off more a decade ago. That said I still liked the ending more than P4's, then again I'm not into twisty endings.

I hope P6 is entirely about the creation of a new Velvet Room with all the helpers that were ever in the series.
 

LiK

Member
I'm so glad I wasn't spoiled about Igor. I literally yelled out "holy shit" when the real Igor showed up with his original voice. That was soooo good. One of the best moments. Persona bot spoiled Goro for me but that was nothing compared to Igor.
 
P4 ending is LITERALLY perfect.

The MC has to leave his friends behind because his time is up, he doesn't want to leave, but he goes with the strength and passion that his new comrades taught him. He also knows he will see them some time in the future. This is EXACTLY what the player is feeling. You don't want to leave these new friends, this great little town, you want to keep going and going and going with these people you've bonded with, but you can't. The game is over, Yu has to return home, and the game has to end for you. But the bonds you've formed, the memories you made, those will remain with both of you for as long as you remember.

I love Persona 5, but the game doesn't have the courage to know to balance sorrow and happiness together. It is all winning, all style, all the time.

Maybe, but the alternative would've been to pretty much recreate the Persona 4 ending.

I think it also fits with how much more worldly Persona 5 is. There's a greater sense of the world outside your group of friends, whereas Persona 4 is very much a bubble around Inaba. So it makes sense to me that leaving your group of friends isn't nearly as dramatic here, and that there's more acknowledgement that things don't necessarily end here, that life continues beyond this point. This is especially true in light of how many spinoffs of Persona 4 they made that kind of contradict the sentiment of "oh no we're like never going to see each other again," not to mention the epilogue of Golden.

I'm so glad I wasn't spoiled about Igor. I literally yelled out "holy shit" when the real Igor showed up with his original voice. That was soooo good. One of the best moments. Persona bot spoiled Goro for me but that was nothing compared to Igor.

Yup. Holy shit best reveal ever.

I hope P6 is entirely about the creation of a new Velvet Room with all the helpers that were ever in the series.

Persona 6 turns into a fleshed-out version of Yakuza 0's cabaret club management minigame except you're pairing Velvet Room attendants with wildcard persona holders.
 

Holundrian

Unconfirmed Member
Maybe, but the alternative would've been to pretty much recreate the Persona 4 ending.

I think it also fits with how much more worldly Persona 5 is. There's a greater sense of the world outside your group of friends, whereas Persona 4 is very much a bubble around Inaba. So it makes sense to me that leaving your group of friends isn't nearly as dramatic here, and that there's more acknowledgement that things don't necessarily end here, that life continues beyond this point. This is especially true in light of how many spinoffs of Persona 4 they made that kind of contradict the sentiment of "oh no we're like never going to see each other again," not to mention the epilogue of Golden.



Yup. Holy shit best reveal ever.

That was never a sentiment even in the original P4. I distinctly remember people mentioning about how the MC definitely should visit again, inviting him back etc. Even outside of that there was a strong them of friendships that survive any distance. It was never meant a final goodbye at least in the true ending even without the Golden epilogue.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
For example, I love that a response you can give to CoD kid during the final days is "we can just play online"
 

Chase17

Member
The Akechi thing bums me out. He is pretty much speaking the truth about the phantom thieves the whole game. Could have used his completely understandable stance to be a proper rival to the protagonist. Instead it's just that he is on a revenge/murder tour.

The Igor twist (especially regarding the voices) was neat I guess but it didn't do a whole lot for me. I hardly see him as a character so when it happens it's just kind of like an "oh, ok" moment. Maybe if I did the twins social link that would have helped.

The social commentary at the bottom of Mementos is A+

Bouncing around to the social links in January felt just like an Ace Attorney credits sequence to me lol

Would be funny if the updated version included the month in jail. Need to properly manage your free time there!
 

Holundrian

Unconfirmed Member
The Akechi thing bums me out. He is pretty much speaking the truth about the phantom thieves the whole game. Could have used his completely understandable stance to be a proper rival to the protagonist. Instead it's just that he is on a revenge/murder tour.

The Igor twist (especially regarding the voices) was neat I guess but it didn't do a whole lot for me. I hardly see him as a character so when it happens it's just kind of like an "oh, ok" moment. Maybe if I did the twins social link that would have helped.

The social commentary at the bottom of Mementos is A+

Bouncing around to the social links in January felt just like an Ace Attorney credits sequence to me lol

Would be funny if the updated version should include the month in jail. Need to properly manage your free time there.

Lol I never thought about it but Persona 5 Shawshank Redemption gameplay months would be hilarious. Prison Confidants wohoo!
 
I'm so glad I wasn't spoiled about Igor. I literally yelled out "holy shit" when the real Igor showed up with his original voice. That was soooo good. One of the best moments. Persona bot spoiled Goro for me but that was nothing compared to Igor.

I went into the game dark other than watching the first two trailers, I knew what some of the party members looked like and that is pretty much it. The Igor thing had me audibly gasp. I did the apparently common Persona-fan thing of "Oh yeah the Japanese voice actor died, they must've switched up the English voice just to match that" explanation. Very happy to be surprised.

...
I dunno, fits this crew better. P4 are a bunch of chumps who can't do things without their parents permission and P5 are a punch of punks who don't have a care as long as it's a good time.

Definitely true. The three teams of P3, P4 and P5, while all being super close, definitely have different vibes. The Phantom thieves driving off into the sunset absolutely makes sense. I also really liked MC looking at you in the last few frames while the "Now it is your time.." music in the background, pretty clear message to get off your ass and go spend time with your own friends =)
 
The last boss of this game was so fucking on point. The deadly sins mechanic was very well done even if it make him frustrating to fight. I also loved the design. I'll echo that most of the bosses in this game sucked. I liked extra mechanics like the roulette wheel in Sae's battle. But earlier bosses were not great.
 
The Akechi thing bums me out. He is pretty much speaking the truth about the phantom thieves the whole game. Could have used his completely understandable stance to be a proper rival to the protagonist. Instead it's just that he is on a revenge/murder tour.

The Igor twist (especially regarding the voices) was neat I guess but it didn't do a whole lot for me. I hardly see him as a character so when it happens it's just kind of like an "oh, ok" moment. Maybe if I did the twins social link that would have helped.

The social commentary at the bottom of Mementos is A+

Bouncing around to the social links in January felt just like an Ace Attorney credits sequence to me lol

Would be funny if the updated version included the month in jail. Need to properly manage your free time there!
I think what will happen is they will revise Akechi's social link and make it a lot like Adachi's from Golden. Maxing it out on your own should have Akechi serve the time instead of you.
At least, that is what I want.
I'm so glad I wasn't spoiled about Igor. I literally yelled out "holy shit" when the real Igor showed up with his original voice. That was soooo good. One of the best moments. Persona bot spoiled Goro for me but that was nothing compared to Igor.
I kinda figured the Igor was a fake but then the real Igor appeared....with a completely different voice. It was the first time in the game where I wanted to use Japanese voices.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
The last boss of this game was so fucking on point. The deadly sins mechanic was very well done even if it make him frustrating to fight. I also loved the design. I'll echo that most of the bosses in this game sucked. I liked extra mechanics like the roulette wheel in Sae's battle. But earlier bosses were not great.

Really? I liked madarame's a lot.
 

kadotsu

Banned
Persona 5 Sin/Rogue/Whatever edition needs to have a large Jester Arcana storyline branch. You can almost see the SMT routes working in this game.

I liked all the bosses. I need to revisit 3 before I can say they are my favorite but they aren'T as brain dead anymore.
 
They went full SMT with that final part, a bloody tokyo, defeating the fours angels, and they taking on a god that use the seven deadly sins!

loved it
 

Apharmd

Member
I've been trying to figure out the significance of the final kill shot. I think I just got it.

I don't know enough about Japan's current social and political landscape to fully understand everything going on with Yaldabaoth, but it seems he at least represents apathy and prioritizing "saving face" over actual justice, which is a recurring theme with literally every target.

So Joker's ultimate Persona is naturally whom SMT essentially considers the ultimate rebel against authority, but I didn't really get why the final shot consisted of the Seven Deadly Sins. Like, the final attacks in P3 and P4 were very straightforward, but I didn't get this one right away because the Sins are obviously bad things as opposed to, say,
Myriad Truths
from P4.

Taking down every villain is about exposing their crimes and getting justice for the victims instead of sweeping the crimes under the rug and maintaining the status quo. So when you go up against Yaldabaoth and his bit about apathy and willful imprisonment, you take the Sins and shoot a hole through his head with them to force them to be undeniable. It's not subtle at all, but I didn't get it right away because I couldn't think of a way for using them to be righteous.

(Also, knowing that Joker's ultimate Persona is goddamn Satan certainly adds all kinds of fun meaning to Arsene's dialogue during that awakening).

Woooah. Even though it was super obvious, I didn't get that's what it meant to shoot God in the face with the seven deadly sins. I thought it was accepting them and proudly brandishing them instead of hiding them. But no, yours makes a lot more sense.

I feel foolish that I didn't get that even though as you said, it was totally not subtle at all. Haha.
 

LiK

Member
I felt like I was fighting Trump when I was fighting Shido. Man, imagine the English version came out last year during election season. Would've had even more impact.
 
I thought that the part of the ending sequence when you get to see all your confidants working to try to get you free was a nice touch. Iwai's was the best since he basically got you protection in prison.
 
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