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[SPOILERS] Zero Time Dilemma Spoiler Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

The format was alright, but the beginning desperately needed an hour or two of proper introduction. Like in the previous two games, properly introducing the characters, situation, setting up the mystery, plus the characters taking their time to analyze the situation. Then the fragmentation could have been pulled off. However, being thrown straight into randomized scenes without any build-up doesn't work at all.

So the story was basically stumbling hard for several hours before slowly ascending. Then, during mid-end game you might get the impression that the full turn-around is about to happen, just before that ending hits out of nowhere, leaving you like this:
tE4PZ0h.gif

i admit the only time i was interested in the story were the parts connecting it to vlr (since it comes out of nowhere and suddenly it's the vlr timeline!), and the shifters plans to get themselves to a safe timeline, pre-ending.

but even that had the alien teleportation device.

and like, why does sigma send his kids to 1904. what is wrong with him. hell 2004 would have been a crappy time compared to 2024 or something closer to 2029.

also why doesn't sigma ever try digging a way out or finding a way out in any way. maybe he does and fails, but there's an electricity system that's on so he probably could have rigged something together. delta probably would have mind hacked him not to though huh.

ztd is like the anti-999.
 
Obviously Sigma/Diana ending is peak ZTD.

Speaking of this, I'm going through the game again and I actually just finished this ending for the second time. As predictable as Sigma and Diana being Phi's parents was, that ending is still something truly special. It's easily one of the best moments across all three games. The feels were so damn strong!

Surely even if you were disappointed with the overall game/ending you can still appreciate that wonderful moment. It's masterfully written and acted.

yCHHzWDl.jpg
 
Surely even if you were disappointed with the overall game/ending you can still appreciate that wonderful moment. It's masterfully written and acted.

hi - long-time listener, first-time caller - and i gotta straight up shit on the entire d-team happenings:

1. it's the reason the entire fucking shitty plot of this game exists
2. sigma being phi's dad retroactively makes sigma far grosser in vlr
3. nothing in this game was masterfully written, directed, or acted
 
Speaking of this, I'm going through the game again and I actually just finished this ending for the second time. As predictable as Sigma and Diana being Phi's parents was, that ending is still something truly special. It's easily one of the best moments across all three games. The feels were so damn strong!

Surely even if you were disappointed with the overall game/ending you can still appreciate that wonderful moment. It's masterfully written and acted.

Agreed. I'd rank ZTD weakest of the three games, given its flawed pacing, largely irrelevant and arbitrary puzzles and weak ending, but both D team endings are the best moments in the entire series for me. Raw emotion given space to breath packing great twists in relation to VLR (my personal favourite).
 
hi - long-time listener, first-time caller - and i gotta straight up shit on the entire d-team happenings:

1. it's the reason the entire fucking shitty plot of this game exists
2. sigma being phi's dad retroactively makes sigma far grosser in vlr
3. nothing in this game was masterfully written, directed, or acted

Lies detected.
 
I'm fairly sure Uchikoshi said himself that ZTD is completely different from what he had in mind in VLR. He had a basic outline of what he wanted to do but once time went by and he finally had an opportunity to do it he found himself bored by it and went into a completely different direction.

I think it's understandable, but it's a shame nonetheless. ZTD doesn't gel with what VLR had set up and as you said, feels more bogged down by the necessity to stick to the series and deliver some closure for hanging plot threads. Which he didn't pull out too well either.

I mostly agree that there are huge problems with some of the new stuff introduced by the game because it's not set up at all. The anecdotes, the pseudoscience stuff dropped along the line made me second-guessing whether it's true or not, especially in VLR. In ZTD ancient aliens and mind hack are just dropped on the player without any build-up.

Shame, shame really. It's still a decent game but compared to previous entries in the series the delivery is totally botched.

Yeah, I vaguely remember the writer saying he had something specific in mind for ZTD. It couldn't have been this.

Honestly, I was hoping that the Alien Device was actually a fake and Zero was planning shenanigans with the watches. Nope. Just does what it says on the tin. I suppose a fake Device would have been predictable, but having the device just be real and dropped like that was boring as all get out.


...Also, notice how the game treated shifting this time around. In VLR, Tenmiyoji brings up the question of time travel and what happens to the old future when you fix the past. They never resolve the question and Akane and friends decide to 'fix the past anyways.

In ZTD they basically decide that you can't fix the time line and 'time travel,' or SHIFTING, only serves to create alternate realities, and that unless you're a SHIFTER you'll never get to see these alternative timelines, meaning it's pointless!

In fact, consider Zero's plan. He say's he's 'saving the world' by basically unleashing a premature Armageddon, right? But according to the 'many timelines' theory the game goes with, there should have already been realities where the Earth didn't get destroyed by a Nuclear War. Heck, he only knew about the bad timelines because of SHIFTERS in the first place.

With that in mind, him playing the 'Decision Game' and releasing 'Radical 6' seems to be completely pointless. He's just making more 'bad realities.' And no one thought to point this out to him.

Heck, if his precious new SHIFTERs use their powers to 'save the world,' he'll never know it because of how it works, which makes everything completely pointless.

Also, I'd love to see what he meant when he told Akane and friends to come to his cult meeting.
 
I'm usually not a fan of assuming that some hypothetical alternative thing we never got would have been automatically better. Maybe the first draft was even messier. Though in this case it really seems like the man forgot what he actually wrote in VLR at some point of the overhaul... The original concept (if VLR was more successful) also probably wouldn't have gone this pseudo-Telltale route to ,,appeal" to western audiences more.
 
3S06UbEm.jpg


As I was playing the game I wrote down 20 questions that are confusing me. Who on GAF wants to be awesome and take my challenge and answer them all? :D

1. Who exactly was Sean? Just someone Delta met at a hospital?
Yeah, just someone that Delta knew at that time

2. Why did Akane say she doesn't know what happened at the Mars Test Site at the end of VLR when she should know?
It's not like they shifted when you saw C Team enter the VLR timeline, so having different memories wouldn't exactly work since she did take part in it. I think it's because Akane felt like she had to keep quiet about it for the plan to fully work.

3. Is the Phi in ZTD the same Phi from VLR? If so, why are her eyebrows now orange when they weren't in VLR?
Probably to make the twist more obvious before the scene where she mentions she's originally a redhead. Who knows if this was the original intention for Phi's background or not.

4. Eric's mother was Mira's first victim. Akane's dad was wrongfully convicted of the crime causing Akane's mother to commit suicide. The real Sean died waiting for surgery because his surgeon and a taxi driver were killed in a car accident (was the surgeon and taxi driver anyone?) Is that all correct? If so, is all that simply implying how something so small can cause a big rippling effect?
Small things make big changes, yeah.

5. How exactly did anyone even know Sean's name? When did Sean tell them? And didn't he have no memories of everything?
No one knew until the game actually started (since C and D team didn't know his existence at all), this is backed by where they won the coin flip and ask who he is. He told Q team probably after the game started. I wouldn't say no memory meant him not knowing anything about himself, he was probably programmed to at least remember the name Sean.

6. If Delta was always with team Q, wouldn't that make 4 in the group? Why did no one think that was odd? And why would they be surprised to learn 10 people are playing the game?
Q team found it really odd since no one has met him prior at Dcom. Seems like they just saw him forced to play because of the bracelet, but knew his name didn't contribute to the X Passes. In some fragments you can hear an additional gunshot or see a pool of blood when they needed to reach 6 kills. C and D team found it odd having 10 members because they've never seen him before and assumed it was 9 at first.

7. The whole Delta needed to re-create everything again so he could be born is confusing me. He's already alive as an older human? Explain!
It's sort of like June's thing in 999. She had access the timeline on where things allowed her future self to exist. For Delta, it's his past, which is contradictory. It's just weird time travel theory on how things already exist despite needing a time travel event to even allow it in the first place.

8. Why did Delta set up the puzzle rooms? What was the point of the characters doing them this time?
No point this game besides Delta's trolling. I'd say it's just for us as players since nothing was really story integrated until Decision Game time

9. For the team select screen, why the hell would they put a picture of Sean as Q? Why not just have a list of text to pick?
Q's appointed as leader, and iirc, people were baffled since they knew Q to be supposedly deaf and blind. Sean ends up as acting leader instead despite being suspicious to Eric. In my mind, Mira was interested in curious on how Q (who they thought was a kid) would decide things and was fine with him choosing. Eric just going along with Mira.

10. Why was Delta called Q?
Q was to hide his real identity. Otherwise Sigma and Diana naming one of their kids after a blind/deaf man they barely knew would be odd. Also a lowercase delta is an upside-down Q.

11. Why was Sean making all the choices when Q/Delta was supposed to be in charge?
Because they thought he was deaf/blind and couldn't make the decisions. As for why they might've let Sean be appointed leader, I answered that earlier.

12. Why didn't team Q think it was odd that they didn't see a picture of Delta on the wall in the library with rest of the cast?
This was a hard one to rationalize. I feel like this one is for the players more than anything because if you check the status menu of the participants, there was no Sean picture.

13. Delta said he let Mira roam free and didn't inject her with the drug that erases her memory. So why didn't she mention her memories weren't getting erased?
She wasn't injected only in one timeline I think? In the timeline she wasn't, the group wasn't in a teamwork mood since a team already got executed, so she kept that as an advantage to herself.

14. Was it explained where Mira got her robe when she went on her little killing spree?
Nope

15. Delta mentioned that he had a brother with another family? Who? Sean?
Left was his non-blood related brother after Delta was adopted

16. Is Delta the same person as Brother that was mentioned in VLR? In VLR Free The Soul seemed to hate humanity, and yet in ZTD Delta wanted to save as much of humanity as possible?
It's possible Brother only did that to get Free the Soul to rally behind him. Make them think they're purging humanity when they're actually achieving Delta's supposed best case scenario

17. Who was Brother's brother that died young that was mentioned in VLR? Surely not Sean?
Left

18. Why/how was Delta so old?
Delta got sent to 1904 after being in the pod.

19. When with team Q everything was from Delta's perspective and when with team C and D he was looking through cameras from his glasses? Correct?
Q team is a mix of both. Remember that scene where you thinking they're unchaining Gab? It's really Delta and they're obstructing the camera view at times. Same goes for when you see an extra blood puddle behind Sean instead of right under. But yeah, C and D were from cameras. I thought this twist was neat since it reminds me of those murder mysteries where the narrator is actually counted as a character. Too bad Delta himself wasn't as great as the 10th character/perspective twist for me.

20. If the separate wards didn't exist, couldn't the teams have gone into any room they wanted?
Usually they found themselves to wake up in a room. As for why they didn't get to any room, that's because the doors were locked. Zero can't have the players walk in on another team just sleeping.

Sure this is an old post I'm responding to, but I just finished it, so I gave a shot with my answers and how I saw things.

Game was... ok. The game itself is fine, but being the third entry in the Zero Escape franchise, it wasn't what I was expecting. Lots of messy time travel with silly ideas. I didn't like the whole "dilemma" of killing alternate selves just to shift to another timeline. I didn't like how some of the returning characters were handled, mostly Akane. She wasn't bad, but she wasn't Zero 1 either. I was hoping for that personality when facing the dangers against another Zero. The only time I got this reckless yet calculated feeling from her was during the nuclear reactor room with her plan to shift elsewhere.

Diana was probably my favorite out of the new characters if I'm allowed to count her. Carlos was a good guy, and I thought it was hilarious that everyone in the other teams blamed Carlos for anything bad outside their Ward. Sean was decent, I liked him. Eric's backstory made him one of the most human, but also one to be hated. I think his role in just that was fine. Mira was my least favorite. Such an uninteresting character that ended up starting the events of ZE series (besides the snail of course).


Game's my least favorite of the 3. 999 had the best confined story along with tension averaged throughout. VLR had some really nice crafted twists. It might've had such a way out there story, but the execution was really good for me. 999 had the cool bottom screen revelation while for me, VLR had the walking Schrodinger's Cat Box armor. ZTD's presentation choice on why they made it cinematic was cool, I thought, when they got to that twist. Too bad Delta being not that great while the animations being not great either kind of hurt it.

Also no K part disappointed me. I was actually hype to see what it was going to be and then nothing lol
 
I thought the game's beginning was super duper weak. There's a huge lack of interactivity, and you're basically forced to sit through the same scenes 3 times.

The game starts to pick up considerably once you start getting into the meat of decision games. ie: the dice decision, the Yellow button decision, etc. Basically any time Zero forced you to make a decision after a puzzle was great.

Obviously Sigma/Diana ending is peak ZTD.

Mmm, I'd agree with this.

As a game, I'd say that ZTD is pretty alright, and it feels like a progression of 999 and VLR in the ways that it involves the player in the decision-making; it's definitely a step up from picking doors.

But the storytelling? Yeesh.
 
I like to think Delta mindhacked that snail on the road.

Obviously for complex reasons he couldn't just put it there with his hands.
 
Speaking of this, I'm going through the game again and I actually just finished this ending for the second time. As predictable as Sigma and Diana being Phi's parents was, that ending is still something truly special. It's easily one of the best moments across all three games. The feels were so damn strong!

Surely even if you were disappointed with the overall game/ending you can still appreciate that wonderful moment. It's masterfully written and acted.

yCHHzWDl.jpg

I'm actually really conflicted on that scene, on so many levels. While I whole-heartedly support the romance between Diana and Sigma, at the same time, the level of time-jumps and what-not make it hard to feel like they're two people genuinely falling in love as opposed to fulfilling some hokey time loop thing.
 
I'm actually really conflicted on that scene, on so many levels. While I whole-heartedly support the romance between Diana and Sigma, at the same time, the level of time-jumps and what-not make it hard to feel like they're two people genuinely falling in love as opposed to fulfilling some hokey time loop thing.

But the Diana and Sigma from that ending (D-End 2) hadn't ever SHIFTed.
 
But the Diana and Sigma from that ending (D-End 2) hadn't ever SHIFTed.

It's not so much the shifting as the point that Sigma semi-brings up when there's a flash forward to the future. Diana joins him in his space facility, and then dies from illness; and if my memory is correct, Sigma kind of says something along the lines of, "I know we fell in love when we were in D-COM, but the me [young Sigma developing the tech needed for the jump backwards] here is in love with you, too."

And that point made me cry, just a little bit. Young Sigma is also in love with in Diana, who is actually probably in love with old Sigma, because old Sigma knows everything about Diana. It's like this... I don't know how to put it, but as I said, "hokey time loop". It's like an unnatural way to fall in love, despite Diana and Sigma being a very adorable couple that's easy to root for.
 
Finally finished the game yesterday night, I enjoyed the ride but I agree with the sentiment of it being the weakest. I noticed the Platinum rate for this game was just a bit above 51% which was kind of nice to see...though it's kind of hard not to get a Platinum after seeing all options. The only one I was missing at the end was a single file.

I think the puzzles in this game were pretty good. They felt a lot easier than any of the other games and though some might see that as a negative, I preferred it because it kept the story going at a brisk pace. Both 999 and VLR had some frustrating ones at the end too where I couldn't focus because of the urgency in the story and ended up looking up the solutions. I also liked the fact that there weren't secondary objectives in the room because I hated the feeling of needing to stick around in a room because I haven't found the "secret" code yet.

My biggest gripe with the game is that I never felt the mystery or urgency as strong as I did in the prior games. Any big reveal felt par for the course so it felt like it was missing some of those iconic moments from the past games. In past games, a reveal would feel like the ceiling suddenly collapsed on you because you thought the cracks were just a part of the ceiling. ZTD felt like it gave you a lot of not so subtle signs that the ceiling is going to collapse and why. The other issue is that the past games have sort of trained you to expect it to happen.

What I do feel the game excelled at were character moments. Stuff like the Sigma + Diana ending*, Eric's backstory, finding out why Junpei is kind of a butt head, etc. were all great. Sort of going with the same reason I complained about story twists, I think the fact that there are two prior games with a decent bit of character building helped make the moments a lot more special.

Overall I don't think the high's of ZTD ever reached the high's of 999 or VLR but it was still a great ride and I'm happy to have caught this franchise.

what the fuck is this "hurr durr I'm Professor X bullshit"? YO ZERO? WHY THE FUCK YOU DON'T JUST MIND CONTROL THEM INTO MAKING SWEET LOVE AND PUT THE BABIES INTO THE TRANSPORTER HUH? Oh? You're concerned about humanity or something? You just wanted everyone to want to combine the power of their hearts so justice and love can defeat radical-6? We just going to pretend that you don't have some vaccine thing lying around in your base? Or that radical-6 could have probably been stopped at an earlier point in the timeline? Fuck you and your Steve Jobs turtle neck. Your glasses are dumb too.

*But....why in the transport pod itself? I mean I don't have an answer to "why not?" but that was one of the strangest things for me.


I thought the game's beginning was super duper weak. There's a huge lack of interactivity, and you're basically forced to sit through the same scenes 3 times.

I agree, but for me that extends to a lot of other moments in the game that were consistent for each team. In particular I hated the decontamination room because you had to see basically gthe exact same scene three times and then sit through the alternate second half when you make the opposite choices.
 
So how was Zero able to lock out the alternate X-passes if he couldn't move between timelines. I guess he could have read Akane's mind when she showed up but it seems the branches used different passes no matter what.

Also there is really no way for me to consider any of the endings a "good ending" when every execution did actually happen and Sigma and family always starve to death in the bunker.
 
So how was Zero able to lock out the alternate X-passes if he couldn't move between timelines. I guess he could have read Akane's mind when she showed up but it seems the branches used different passes no matter what.

Easy, generate a random X-pass when someone dies. If someone tries to use one of the passwords that hasn't been generated yet, assume they got it from another timeline.
 
It's not so much the shifting as the point that Sigma semi-brings up when there's a flash forward to the future. Diana joins him in his space facility, and then dies from illness; and if my memory is correct, Sigma kind of says something along the lines of, "I know we fell in love when we were in D-COM, but the me [young Sigma developing the tech needed for the jump backwards] here is in love with you, too."

And that point made me cry, just a little bit. Young Sigma is also in love with in Diana, who is actually probably in love with old Sigma, because old Sigma knows everything about Diana. It's like this... I don't know how to put it, but as I said, "hokey time loop". It's like an unnatural way to fall in love, despite Diana and Sigma being a very adorable couple that's easy to root for.

You should watch Misfits :P.
 
*But....why in the transport pod itself? I mean I don't have an answer to "why not?" but that was one of the strangest things for me.

I've been thinking about this for an entire month now. Sigma's a really tall guy, he's got a huge build, and packs 18 inches. That just sounds downright uncomfortable in the transporter.
 
I've been thinking about this for an entire month now. Sigma's a really tall guy, he's got a huge build, and packs 18 inches. That just sounds downright uncomfortable in the transporter.

The other thing about that ending... Did they just never find the rest of the rooms? Was the bulk of the food supply actually in the pantry, right there, and they just never knew they could walk right in?
 
The other thing about that ending... Did they just never find the rest of the rooms? Was the bulk of the food supply actually in the pantry, right there, and they just never knew they could walk right in?

That's what I figure, yeah. They would have needed codes to the respective door which they didn't have, to be fair.

Or tried to destroy a wall for some reason.
 
finally finished the game, I had to check online to see if the ending was actually the real ending cause I couldn't believe it, felt like there HAD to be another secret ending after Carlos points the gun at Zero.

How dare they not give me post game files on D team, I don't give a flying fuck what Q what does jokers in Q team are doing.(well I do but......)

Where's Kyle? Where's Blick Winkel?

I liked Captain America, Diana, and dickhead Junpei. Akane needed more of an edge to her with the crazy shit she pulled off in 999, only got a glimpse in the VLR route. Sigma needed more "im too old for this shit moments" he didn't feel like an old man a lot of the time. Phi was mostly just.......there, really disappointing.

Not sure why Mira decided to turn face and turn herself in out of nowhere, Eric was about what I expected him to be, Sean was........a kid.


and that timeline where Sigma, Diana, and the kids are stuck with no food left..........that's pretty dark man.......either slowly started to death or killed the babies before killing themselves,
 
CpBA2OsUMAEAFUA.jpg


Eric suddenly points his shotgun at you. He demands to know who killed Mira.

What do you do?


>Tell him that he did, you crazy son of a bitch
>Try to run away
>Fight
 
So how was Zero able to lock out the alternate X-passes if he couldn't move between timelines. I guess he could have read Akane's mind when she showed up but it seems the branches used different passes no matter what.

Also there is really no way for me to consider any of the endings a "good ending" when every execution did actually happen and Sigma and family always starve to death in the bunker.

My headcanon says after they use the teleporters once last time, they head back to the lounge and prepare to die. Sigma throws a chair against the wall in frustration, revealing the truth about the complex (or the morphogenic field reveals it to him). They make it to the pantry and now have years of food left.

This also exposes the control room and, with nothing better to do, he and Diana brute force control of the system and find their way out and live happily ever after.
 
I was really disappointed Sigma and Diana didn't really acknowledge Delta as their son, I was hoping for some crazy family drama. The males in the family get the short end of the stick. Delta doesn't give a shit about killing Sigma but spared Diana for some reason, Kyle gets thrown under the bus, Delta barely gets acknowledged by his parents.
 
What are you even saying?!? Argh that's it, you're done!

GAME OVER



You think this is funny? Huh?!? Well you won't be laughing when I put a bullet in your head!

???: Calm down you.

Eric: Wait... but how?!? You can talk?!

Gab: Yes. You may call me... Kyle.


KYLE END-1

Mind = Blown
 
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