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[SPOILERS] Zero Time Dilemma Spoiler Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

PK Gaming said:
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source
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If ZTD would have focused on Sigma and Phi, the VLR + ZTD combo would've made 999 irrelevant. What a cool pair of characters that were da real MVP of this trilogy.
 
So Uchikoshi only did Team D? They were my favorite team, far ahead the others, so I'm not entirely sure how to feel about this (alien nonsense withstanding). I did enjoy Team Q too, though, but far less.
 
I just read the prologue again and it's really great. The fact that Sigma constantly brings up Radical-6 in a panic and that he discusses it with Akane and Phi is awesome since that sort of stuff never happened in the actual game.

It also lets us know that the Akane from ZTD is the one from 999 and not the one in the ending of VLR in her robe.

I recommend everyone to read it. It fleshes out the characters and makes ZTD actually make more sense.
 
Speaking of the prologue, I really dislike Sigma's characterization in that

His personality is already off in the main game, but still good enough to a point where I could appreciate him as a character. The prologue on the other hand...

None of the participants dared make a move. A furry face poked through the wall of legs.
“Gab…” Sigma’s voice trailed off. His gaze caught on the canister hanging from the dog’s collar.
“Could it be-?” No sooner had he spoken than Sigma leapt towards the dog. Carlos seized the opportunity and tackled Sigma. The two wrestled across the floor and slammed into the wall, shaking the room.
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Is a bit much. Actually, a bit much is an understatement. I can't believe he had to be lectured by Phi on how to behave himself on a mission he literally spent his entire life preparing for.

“There’s still some fight left in this old man!”
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Sesavba.jpg
 
PK Gaming said:
Speaking of the prologue, I really dislike Sigma's characterization in that

His personality is already off in the main game, but still good enough to a point where I could appreciate him as a character. The prologue on the other hand...

None of the participants dared make a move. A furry face poked through the wall of legs.
“Gab…” Sigma’s voice trailed off. His gaze caught on the canister hanging from the dog’s collar.
“Could it be-?” No sooner had he spoken than Sigma leapt towards the dog. Carlos seized the opportunity and tackled Sigma. The two wrestled across the floor and slammed into the wall, shaking the room.
Click to expand...

Is a bit much. Actually, a bit much is an understatement. I can't believe he had to be lectured by Phi on how to behave himself on a mission he literally spent his entire life preparing for.

“There’s still some fight left in this old man!”
Click to expand...

Sesavba.jpg
Click to expand...

Huh? I actually thought Sigma was spot on in ZTD considering he had the mentality of an old man. He was much more sensible and aware. I'm not exactly sure what was supposed to be off about him?

And I don't have a problem with what he did in the prologue. I mean with SO MUCH build up to finally getting to Dcom the pressure of it all got the better of him. It's understandable. The story needed something like that since in the actual game him, Akane and Phi all seemed way too relaxed when it came to Radical-6.
 
I can understand the stress getting to Sigma as well. He's been planning to stop Radical-6 for decades and everything he found at Dcom is nothing like he expected--just boring and completely normal.

Also, just because he's older and wiser doesn't mean he's perfect. I'm pretty sure Tenmyouji had his rash moments in VLR, for example.
 
There's rash, and then there's running around screaming about 6 billion people dying and breaking stuff and charging at dogs and saying he's an old man inside a young person's body. It's just way, way too comedic (par for the course for ZTD, but still...)

I totally understand how the pressure could affect a normal person. But there should have been a nuance to it. Phi goes through the exact same thing, but her breakdown is way more natural than Sigma's. And honestly, Sigma Sr. should be intelligent enough to know better. He spent his entire life preparing for this, why would he fuck it up by acting like an idiot? (If one of the participants was a culprit then he'd be completely screwed)

Ya'll are seriously going to tell me that the guy who delivered this speech:

We trudge through our lives with no greater understanding of our ultimate goal. You might say we don't understand what we're building. Only an intelligence of a higher order than ours can understand what we're doing. Imagine how we might look to such an intelligence. We may be building some structure so perfect and elegant we can't even perceive it. Whatever it is, we've likely been building it on a dimension just above the ones we know since time immemorial. If we are like the termites, then what we've been building is almost certainly something of tremendous beauty. And you are about to catch a glimpse of it. Or have you already...?
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Is naive and short tempered enough to think that panicking in a critical situation would do anyone good...?
 
orthodoxy1095 said:
Finished. Seemed on track to be pretty great until Delta.
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I feel like a big part of the issue here is that, with the way that the game is paced, you can't help but feel it really is building up to this great, final reveal (irrespective of whether or not you played VLR. Obviously, those of us who did were expecting something from the start!)

Since you do such 'start-stop' segments, it feels like you are being dangled a carrot non-stop, with the expectation that once you get into the paths that cross-over, crazy stuff was going to go down in terms of reveals and twists.

Then you get... well... that twist. And it ain't great.
 
DMiz said:
I feel like a big part of the issue here is that, with the way that the game is paced, you can't help but feel it really is building up to this great, final reveal (irrespective of whether or not you played VLR. Obviously, those of us who did were expecting something from the start!)

Since you do such 'start-stop' segments, it feels like you are being dangled a carrot non-stop, with the expectation that once you get into the paths that cross-over, crazy stuff was going to go down in terms of reveals and twists.

Then you get... well... that twist. And it ain't great.
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It's an alright twist in some ways. But yeah, I guess it didn't feel as "big" as it should have been.

The Delta twist seems like something that you'd put in the middleish to effect more insanity, rather than towards the end, as if that was supposed to impress me.
 
I'm sorry but I don't think I can search this entire thread for the answer so if it's already been solved, I apologize. Did we ever figure out who "?" Is from the bonus ending of VLR?
 
Tricky I Shadow said:
I just read the prologue again and it's really great. The fact that Sigma constantly brings up Radical-6 in a panic and that he discusses it with Akane and Phi is awesome since that sort of stuff never happened in the actual game.

It also lets us know that the Akane from ZTD is the one from 999 and not the one in the ending of VLR in her robe.

I recommend everyone to read it. It fleshes out the characters and makes ZTD actually make more sense.
Click to expand...

Wait. There's a prologue? Where?
 
Tricky I Shadow said:
I just read the prologue again and it's really great. The fact that Sigma constantly brings up Radical-6 in a panic and that he discusses it with Akane and Phi is awesome since that sort of stuff never happened in the actual game.

It also lets us know that the Akane from ZTD is the one from 999 and not the one in the ending of VLR in her robe.

I recommend everyone to read it. It fleshes out the characters and makes ZTD actually make more sense.
Click to expand...

Where's this prologue? I need more Diana.

Edit: And I should have refreshed.
 
clay_ghost said:
No. But it should be you the player. Not sure why they totally drop the plot line.
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I'm glad they did, because Uchikoshi already used something similar once before in a different game, and I was bracing myself for a lot of predictable retreads.

But there wasn't! As emotionally disappointing as the final ZTD twist felt, it's at least not him repeating himself.
 
On another note: Who else thought the puzzles were terrible in this game?

It took over 2 hours before the puzzle rooms even start, and when they do, they just kinda throw all of them at you at once.

Most of the puzzle rooms are easy and you spend more time examining the rooms and pixel hunting that solving them. Like the Power Supply room: That was pathetic. By far, the hardest part of that room was finding the matches!

The puzzle rooms didn't even tie into the plot or narrative this time either. It felt like they were thrown in as an obligation because the previous games had them.

But, hey, we got terrible cinematic in exchange, right?

Ugh, I've been trying to sell on craigslist and no one's biting.
 
Narroo said:
On another note: Who else thought the puzzles were terrible in this game?

It took over 2 hours before the puzzle rooms even start, and when they do, they just kinda throw all of them at you at once.

Most of the puzzle rooms are easy and you spend more time examining the rooms and pixel hunting that solving them. Like the Power Supply room: That was pathetic. By far, the hardest part of that room was finding the matches!

The puzzle rooms didn't even tie into the plot or narrative this time either. It felt like they were thrown in as an obligation because the previous games had them.

But, hey, we got terrible cinematic in exchange, right?

Ugh, I've been trying to sell on craigslist and no one's biting.
Click to expand...

The puzzle rooms felt no better or worse than how they were in 999 and VLR to me. I had no complaints.

And the puzzle rooms do tie into the plot. Did we play the same game? I mean they even call them 'quest rooms' this time since your goal isn't always to simply find a way out of the room. You have other goals like finding an antidote for example.

They were also to develop the strength of their powers in extreme situations, just like how it was in VLR.

And honestly, I had no problems at all with the 'terrible' cinematics. I adjusted to them quickly and ended up enjoying them quite a lot. I found them refreshing after 999 and VLR.
 
Narroo said:
On another note: Who else thought the puzzles were terrible in this game?

It took over 2 hours before the puzzle rooms even start, and when they do, they just kinda throw all of them at you at once.

Most of the puzzle rooms are easy and you spend more time examining the rooms and pixel hunting that solving them. Like the Power Supply room: That was pathetic. By far, the hardest part of that room was finding the matches!

The puzzle rooms didn't even tie into the plot or narrative this time either. It felt like they were thrown in as an obligation because the previous games had them.

But, hey, we got terrible cinematic in exchange, right?

Ugh, I've been trying to sell on craigslist and no one's biting.
Click to expand...
They were awful because of pixel hunting.
 
Narroo said:
On another note: Who else thought the puzzles were terrible in this game?

It took over 2 hours before the puzzle rooms even start, and when they do, they just kinda throw all of them at you at once.

Most of the puzzle rooms are easy and you spend more time examining the rooms and pixel hunting that solving them. Like the Power Supply room: That was pathetic. By far, the hardest part of that room was finding the matches!

The puzzle rooms didn't even tie into the plot or narrative this time either. It felt like they were thrown in as an obligation because the previous games had them.

But, hey, we got terrible cinematic in exchange, right?

Ugh, I've been trying to sell on craigslist and no one's biting.
Click to expand...

Fuck the Power Supply room, man. I straight up looked a guide up for that part because I didn't care anymore at that point.
 
So, uh, why was Carlos there? I can understand Eric/Mira/Sean/Akane/Junpei because they were all dominoed by the snail, and Sigma/Diana/Phi because family and stuff, but Carlos just seems unrelated. Did I miss something where the snail started the fire that killed his family or something?
 
ThatChairMan said:
So, uh, why was Carlos there? I can understand Eric/Mira/Sean/Akane/Junpei because they were all dominoed by the snail, and Sigma/Diana/Phi because family and stuff, but Carlos just seems unrelated. Did I miss something where the snail started the fire that killed his family or something?
Click to expand...
Get money for his sister's medical treatment.
 
Brazil said:
Fuck the Power Supply room, man. I straight up looked a guide up for that part because I didn't care anymore at that point.
Click to expand...


Ironically, the power room is the one that least needs the guide. The matches can be a pain to find (hello 3DS!) but otherwise the room is just 'tap to solve!' the entire way.


orthodoxy1095 said:
They were awful because of pixel hunting.
Click to expand...

Pretty much; most of my time was spent just looking around the room and picking up items.

Tricky I Shadow said:
The puzzle rooms felt no better or worse than how they were in 999 and VLR to me. I had no complaints.

And the puzzle rooms do tie into the plot. Did we play the same game? I mean they even call them 'quest rooms' this time since your goal isn't always to simply find a way out of the room. You have other goals like finding an antidote for example.

They were also to develop the strength of their powers in extreme situations, just like how it was in VLR.

And honestly, I had no problems at all with the 'terrible' cinematics. I adjusted to them quickly and ended up enjoying them quite a lot. I found them refreshing after 999 and VLR.
Click to expand...

Er - forcing people into a silly puzzle room for no apparent reason isn't really a plot point. You can easily remove the rooms from ZTD and you'd loose nothing. Actually, the narrative would become more coherent, if anything. You can't say that about 999.

999 revolved around the puzzle rooms by the end and there's no real way to write them out of the plot.

As far as VLR goes...welll...it was much weaker. We're basically given 'well if you remember back in 999' as an excuse and it didn't make much sense. That said, they did perform a narrative function of splinting up the party with the chromatic doors, and occasionally providing documents/tools/locations for some plot points. Weaker, but still passable.

Both games also had more actual puzzles you had to stop and think about. They also had 'end of game puzzles' that fit in with the climax, such as the Q room in VLR, or the library and workshop in 999.

In ZTD: No one even makes reference to the puzzles in the cutscenes. I guess you're supposed to take it on faith that the puzzles should be there. I mean, after all, what do puzzles have to do with SHIFTING? It's now an even bigger plot hole than it was VLR and it's never addressed.

Also, it was mostly pixel hunting and 1+1=2. The only real 'puzzle' was the number system puzzle in the transporter room, and there wasn't much too it. The game basically just pukes up a few basic puzzle rooms after a few hours of cutscenes-you solve the rooms, and then the plot continues. It's completely vestigial.


Also, anyone else notice that the game didn't really have a climax this time around? Instead, you solve the 'Force Quit Box,' zero shows up and goes 'complex,' then you get the ending outro. No wonder it wasn't satisfying!
 
Narroo said:
On another note: Who else thought the puzzles were terrible in this game?

It took over 2 hours before the puzzle rooms even start, and when they do, they just kinda throw all of them at you at once.
Click to expand...

I did think the puzzles were a step down from VLR. I solved everything much faster than in VLR and never got stuck... Yet the puzzles made less sense. You could pretty much stimble through most rooms by using things on other things (and sometimes had to, e.g., the infirmary).

And, seriously, how many puzzles boiled down to "find a screwdriver (or screwdriver-like object)"?
 
Narroo said:
Ironically, the power room is the one that least needs the guide. The matches can be a pain to find (hello 3DS!) but otherwise the room is just 'tap to solve!' the entire way.




Pretty much; most of my time was spent just looking around the room and picking up items.



Er - forcing people into a silly puzzle room for no apparent reason isn't really a plot point. You can easily remove the rooms from ZTD and you'd loose nothing. Actually, the narrative would become more coherent, if anything. You can't say that about 999.

999 revolved around the puzzle rooms by the end and there's no real way to write them out of the plot.

As far as VLR goes...welll...it was much weaker. We're basically given 'well if you remember back in 999' as an excuse and it didn't make much sense. That said, they did perform a narrative function of splinting up the party with the chromatic doors, and occasionally providing documents/tools/locations for some plot points. Weaker, but still passable.

Both games also had more actual puzzles you had to stop and think about. They also had 'end of game puzzles' that fit in with the climax, such as the Q room in VLR, or the library and workshop in 999.

In ZTD: No one even makes reference to the puzzles in the cutscenes. I guess you're supposed to take it on faith that the puzzles should be there. I mean, after all, what do puzzles have to do with SHIFTING? It's now an even bigger plot hole than it was VLR and it's never addressed.

Also, it was mostly pixel hunting and 1+1=2. The only real 'puzzle' was the number system puzzle in the transporter room, and there wasn't much too it. The game basically just pukes up a few basic puzzle rooms after a few hours of cutscenes-you solve the rooms, and then the plot continues. It's completely vestigial.


Also, anyone else notice that the game didn't really have a climax this time around? Instead, you solve the 'Force Quit Box,' zero shows up and goes 'complex,' then you get the ending outro. No wonder it wasn't satisfying!
Click to expand...


The climaxes were probably:
1. The incinerator for Team D
2. Diana and Sigma year of isolation.
3. Everything for Team C starting with Junpei's plan to have them all shift.

Fuck team Q
 
Tricky I Shadow said:
What in the world? The Zero Escape games have far better writing than like 95% of other videogames.
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Oh, I was talking in general terms (damn apostrophe). Not about this game. I do have quite a few complaints about this game and am pretty disappointed overall, but wouldn't ever call it an utter disaster.
 
Uchikoshi being the lead writer only for D Team bodes rather well for him, given that it was handled best between the three overall. Q Team was easily the weakest.
orthodoxy1095 said:
Ugh, I thought it was annoying on Vita at times, I can only imagine what 3DS was like.
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I had no problems with pixel hunting on 3DS (I played on an XL, for the record).
 
Finally can enter this thread! Finished the game the other day.

I was very...underwhelmed. There were some GREAT moments, but I think...you guys voiced all the complaints very well. It was very incoherent, there weren't that many great 'twists' and then "HAHAHA WHO IS ZERO?!?!" and I literally didn't care who Zero was by the end.....

Also....I didn't like them animating the SHIFT mechanic. I don't know why but that just made it seem so....cartoony and cheap.

VLR was SO good. VLR has an incredible build-up and excellent payoff (I 100%'d it from start to finish on Vita before ZTD). There's this fantastic moment in VLR where you 'figure out' why the gameplay mechanics exist and then you take it a step further to solve some of the other puzzles/passwords. I've gone through VLR twice, even, and still those moments gave me great joy!

I can't say the same of ZTD.
 
plutoknight said:
Finally can enter this thread! Finished the game the other day.

I was very...underwhelmed. There were some GREAT moments, but I think...you guys voiced all the complaints very well. It was very incoherent, there weren't that many great 'twists' and then "HAHAHA WHO IS ZERO?!?!" and I literally didn't care who Zero was by the end.....

Also....I didn't like them animating the SHIFT mechanic. I don't know why but that just made it seem so....cartoony and cheap.

VLR was SO good. VLR has an incredible build-up and excellent payoff (I 100%'d it from start to finish on Vita before ZTD). There's this fantastic moment in VLR where you 'figure out' why the gameplay mechanics exist and then you take it a step further to solve some of the other puzzles/passwords. I've gone through VLR twice, even, and still those moments gave me great joy!

I can't say the same of ZTD.
Click to expand...
It was just one more gooney animation in a sea of them :p
 
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