clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
The next generation consoles need at least 4GB RAM dedicated to gaming (means: available for developers to create their games).
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Square Enix: PS4 & 720 Will Need Plenty Of RAM To Meet Our Standard (+Edge RAM Rumor)
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
Chû Totoro;39533617 said:
Why does the talk of a powerful console with a decent amount of ram always bring out the 'bu bu $500 people? PS3 was the only one that did that, for a bunch of reasons we've gone over countless times. The 360 wasn't that expensive, but it was pretty powerful right?
How much would a 360 GPU, CPU and ram have cost in 2005, and what would that buy you now?
And while UMA might be preferred, what if it's at the expense of ram? If you were a developer, would you prefer 2GB UMA, or 4GB ram split into 2GB VRAM and 2GB general RAM? That might be the hobsons choice in front of Sony right now.
You've just listed the exact reasons I had in mind when thinking UMA is better suited for cost reduction.
Also, i don't think they would have a separate pool of slower memory just for the OS. Unless you were thinking the 4GB would consist of a slow pool of 2GB and a fast pool of 2GB.
You guys are missing the point of these supposedly more efficient engines. With the right technology, they may be able to iterate on designs and mechanics much better than they could this gen.
BlazingDarkness
Member
They didn't fire people, they just reshuffled people within the company and changed their development approach towards bigger projects.
The point of my post was to highlight that actually their console output has been increasing, we've had years and years of people (fairly) criticizing SE's long development cycles and now we're seeing more titles release within a smaller time frame, which reflects exactly what SE said they'd hope to do (One big FF a year or so)
Then there's the fact that we've already seen their Next Gen engine, and it appears already to be in a workable state, they've had a team specifically formed to create the engine ready for the next generation of consoles, this is completely different to their approach this generation with Crystal Tools, and the FFXIII titles, where the engine was still being worked on years after we originally saw those FFXIII teasers, which is part of the reason why FFXIII/Versus XIII were in such a development hell. This is why I'm optimistic . The Luminous Studio engine also has a lot of benefits and methods as to create games more efficiently without sacrificing quality, so good looking games with shorter development cycles
As for XIV, it relaunches in 2 months or so, it looks to deliver a lot of changes, so I'm sure the product will speak for itself when it launches
mugurumakensei
Member
When I say slow, I mean slower than VRAM.
I would actually prefer 4/2 for a total of six giving ample general memory for os and games.
A larger overall amount for the same amount of chips, right? I said the same thing a week or so ago. Seems like the best balance IMO.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
My guesstimation of the amount of Ram in the XboxInfinity
4Gig total, with half of it reserved to the OS.
4Gig total, with half of it reserved to the OS.
fallingdove
Member
Agreed. I don't have near the time I need to play them all.
You don't buy sticks of GDDR5 ram.. GDDR stands from Graphics Double Data Ram. It only appears in Graphics Cards. You can get DDR3 that runs at higher speeds if that's what you're talking about if you mean high end RAM... like DDR3 2133.
The Wii U cannot run that Final Fantasy tech demo. If you think that then you should also be ready to pay over $500 minimum for the console. Because the GTX 680 graphics card that is used to power that demo alone costs $480-520.
The Wii U cannot run that Final Fantasy tech demo. If you think that then you should also be ready to pay over $500 minimum for the console. Because the GTX 680 graphics card that is used to power that demo alone costs $480-520.
Projectjustice
Banned
Gemüsepizza;39533358 said:
Doesnt work like that.
Proelite
Member
Nope.
8GB of DDR3 / DDR4 with 3 reserved to the OS. The 3 GB for OS is currently rumored.
Addition amounts of Edram is highly likely.
Stacked ram 512mb - 1GB on the XGPU is also likely.
Square Enix doesn't need a fancy engine to make TWEWY 2. So until they do they can continue to fade into obscurity. This generation has been an absolute disaster for them and it seems like they didn't learn their lesson at all if they keep wanting to push the envelope with fancy engines.
Out of Working Order
Member
Excuuuuuuuuuuuse me, but what about Wii U?
Disheartening that Wii seems to be left out of next gen talk from developers, again.
Disheartening that Wii seems to be left out of next gen talk from developers, again.
Actually their initiative with this engine clearly says you're wrong.
When will you people learn that power, or powerful engines, does not mean that game quality has to suffer. Go back to your ignorant world where stagnant technology is the mystical savior of the industry.
Projectjustice
Banned
Square you need to make good games before making any hardware demands. This isnt the 90s anymore.
Proelite
Member
Stagnant tech is what's killing this console gen right now. If Wii-U turns it around for 3rd parties next year, I'll eat my hat.
shinobi602
Member
They're advising(pretty much warning) MS and Sony about what's needed to run this, and you think the Wii U will have this?
Pinko Marx
Banned
Come on down to PC land, Square. We'll treat you right.
Though that stance is pretty droll by itself, the most amusing thing is how quickly this apparent concern about game budgets would evaporate should Nintendo decide to release a console that is on par with its competitors.
Clearly I'm wrong when they haven't even made a next gen game yet. I mean after all, things worked out so well for them this time around. Considering they might not even get Versus out onto shelves before the end of the current generation I'd take anything they plan on (that you consider initiative) with a few doses of salt. You can disagree with me all you want but it's clear as day that Square Enix is no where near where they used to be in terms of popularity or relevance.
Proelite
Member
Not to mention Nintendo can somehow be the savior of third parties.
Who told you that? Your crystal ball?
It's highly unlikely this will happen, but would be great to see.
Yeah pretty much and it's fucking annoying. It's almost as if the same people who have downplayed and ignored technology these last 6+ years are all of a sudden experts on the subject or suddenly give an interest because a certain company decided to start pushing tech relevant to the last few years.
What is it with people with Kid Icarus avatars having piss poor reading comprehension? You claimed that Square hasn't learned anything from the issues experienced this generation. With efficiency being a focus with this new engine, you are clearly wrong on your ignorant assumption.
I don't give a shit how popular or relevant you think they are. All I'm saying is it's too early to be assuming doom and gloom regarding next gen because of this engine.
shinobi602
Member
Looks damn near photorealistic to me.
DR2K
Banned
It won't be recipricated I assure you.
Well, SE never actually mentions any consoles in the article do they?
Regardless this demo is targeted to run at the highest spec possible, so the WiiU wouldn't be able to run it at the same level of fidelity as the other 2. Whether or not a port of their engine/games will be possible is another matter of course.
It's quite cute you bring up avatars considering your own. Yadda yadda, people in glass houses, something something.
Here's a hint: What they PLAN OR AIM ON DOING isn't going matter until they FOLLOW THROUGH with it. If (or when, according to you) Square Enix magically transforms their entire business model next generation based on this engine and is able to launch more than three titles for the entire generation without it being a complete development clusterfuck then you can bring this up all you want and I'll admit I was wrong. But until then it's on Square Enix to prove that they realized their mistakes and have changed and deliver what gamers want.
Then how do you explain the people who basically damned the PS360 for so many studios shutting down but are suddenly excited about the Wii-U?
No way, clearly looks like CG.
Why so ?
No, budgets are too high for "AAA" (or now, "AAAA") projects regardless of who's system they appear on. The industry is headed toward a complete homogenization and risk-averse model that mirrors the typical "hollywood blockbuster" without any sort of middle-ground to try smaller things (note: on consoles - Square, as an example, is doing great work on handhelds).
It has nothing to do with Nintendo trying to rein the industry in, because - frankly - it's extreme in either direction.
Where the majority of dev studios are owned by a couple mega publishers and those mega publishers work on this model it's a path that leads to a far less diverse *console* market.
Here in Toronto, there are like 6 different brands of gas station. Like 5 of them are owned by the same big 2 companies (because they bought out all the little guys) and hilariously the supply chain is basically the same. Gas prices are never, EVER competitive outside a few independently run and sketchy stations and are always *exactly* the same price at *exactly* the same time. It's probably the same where you are. What's my point? This type of homogenization is dangerous. Obviously a game that looks like this through-and-through would be very expensive.
Creativity *does* lose when the budget is massive. Bean counters would never green light a game that expensive that's any kind of a risk. You know this. I know this. Everyone else should know this too.
You want a game that has this much time and effort put into the art? It's going to be expensive, and it's going to be by-the-numbers for the most part - to appeal to the lowest common denominators to garner the sales to make up the massive expense. There's a reason why you hear crap like "1 million sales to break even" or "next gen will be 5 million sales to break even" and all that.
The current budget model is broken and going all-in high-end is not going to fix it. Whether your name is Nintendo or Sony or Microsoft or Apple or EA or Square or THQ (RIP in 1 year), it doesn't matter in the long run.
shinobi602
Member
Everybody views things differently.
Just for my own amusement, I showed the picture to a bunch of my co-workers and literally every one thought it was a real picture lol. A few of them are gamers.
Horse Armour
Member
There's no reason to think gaming budgets will balloon next gen like they did next gen, I don't think anyone has even said so.
This generation isn't going to be the first time they don't go up.
What does my avatar have to do with your poor comprehension? I'm not the one shitting on a company because the moves they make don't align with my personal hopes.
Also, we don't have to wait for next gen to come and go. All we have to do is look at the engine itself and see if it contains features such as more efficient toolchain, quicker iteration, etc. If it does then that already proves they learned something from this gen, thus you're wrong.
I don't care about their output, I'm not the biggest SE fan, I've always seen them as overrated. However it's your assumption that is silly IMO. If this article included how they made the engine so efficient, and scalable, that they were using it for TWEWY 2 on the 3DS, I'm sure you wouldn't have anything negative to say.
So work towards efficiency to keep the budget under control. Recent developments, such as those seen in UE4, CE3, and Frostbite 2, where iteration does not lead to hours of compile time is a great way to allow more done in equal or less time. This is one of the many areas where new technology can benefit budgets.
No one is saying the current course of development practices is the best method to go. In fact a common theme among developers has been working towards efficiency.
Goddammit, Square Enix. Come to PC. We have all this crap already, and have had it for quite some time. Why must they treat us like peasants? Lol.
Anyways, Microsoft or Sony won't care as long as they can get major engines to run in some form (UE4, CE3, etc.). Square Enix's performance this gen has done little to help convince MS or Sony that they need even more tech to support Square Enix's massive requests.
Anyways, Microsoft or Sony won't care as long as they can get major engines to run in some form (UE4, CE3, etc.). Square Enix's performance this gen has done little to help convince MS or Sony that they need even more tech to support Square Enix's massive requests.
Stylized reality.
I thought you didn't care about my opinion on SE? Why does it matter to you if I shit on them on an internet message board?
Astounding logic. You were captain of your high school debate team, right?
No fucking shit, because that's literally what I said in my first post in this thread. It doesn't even have to be on 3DS (another assumption on your part). If they put it out Vita it would actually be a reason to own that system.
I like how you are giving a menacing tone to their words. Like S-E could say ¡FU Japan! If you want to play our games you have to buy a PC.
When did I ever say I care or don't care about your opinion of SE. Reading comprehension fail yet again.
I enjoy singling out illogical nonsense. Maybe if less people wouldn't jump to irrational assumptions, we would have better discussions here on GAF.
So care to point out what's so flawed in my logic? You claim pushing the envelope with this engine proved they learned nothing from this gen. I say you're wrong since the engine can show they have learned lessons.
Not that hard to understand.
Is this the "Nintendo persecution complex" in reverse? It's weird to see.
Favorite part of thread: "Our new engine is super efficient, but could we get assloads of ram to make it happen?"
I didn't think it would be possible, but next gen could be even more hilarious than this one..
BlazingDarkness
Member
SE love their high end tech, they'll go all out for the PS4/720 and their smaller stuff will go on handhelds
The Wii U is in that murky inbetween like the Wii was
You do realize engine efficiency (development-wise) has nothing to do with RAM requirements, right?
metalslimer
Member
Well anyone besides Sony. Beyond and The Last of US probably wouldn't get a look anywhere else. I do agree that people complaining that everything was the same this E3 with the lack of new IP are in for a rude awakening next gen when all we see at E3 is Dead Space 4, CoD, Assassin's Creed, etc.
I'd take that. 2GB should be plenty for rendering the current view, but not enough for storing the entire current level. 2 VRAM plus 2/4 normal RAM lets you have a super fast cache which would work great with a streaming engine, constantly keeping the VRAM filled as needed. You'd need something as memory increases and drive speeds don't keep up
Nemesis311
Member
Sooooooooo....
FFXV 1-2-3-4-5 confirmed?
Who knows how many sequels SE will have to do to cover the new engines costs?
FFXV 1-2-3-4-5 confirmed?
Who knows how many sequels SE will have to do to cover the new engines costs?
Yeah, I'm aware how engines implement new features that reduce the tedium of many processes.
I simply find it somewhat amusing that anyone would tout efficiency while asking for more hardware grunt. When I want my work force to be more efficient, I don't hire new people or build a new system, I improve upon the processes of my current staff and system. Call me old fashioned I guess. /shrug
opticalmace
Member
Well, shit. Hype train ticket confirmed.
To be fair, the start of a new gen is usually when we see a slew of new IPs.
I can understand that reasoning, but due to the nature of legacy code or tools, building a new system (or part of a new system) is one of the ways to gain efficiency.
I can agree with that so long as we include the modifier "eventually" somewhere.
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