Father_Brain
Banned
The fact that Versus caused what was formerly one of SE's pillar franchises to skip an entire console generation is what really makes it the biggest Japanese development trainwreck this gen, possibly ever.
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Square-Enix Q3/13: ¥5.7b/$61M loss amid console market, praises social/mobile/browser
- Thread starter Blablurn
- Start date
The fact that Versus caused what was formerly one of SE's pillar franchises to skip an entire console generation is what really makes it the biggest Japanese development trainwreck this gen, possibly ever.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Fucked over by Versus and handheld spinoffs. A Wii KH probably would've sold amazingly in the US given Epic Mickey 1 more than doubled sales of even KH2 in their first NPDs.
It'll be interesting to see how KH1.5 HD does, and if it can break the 200-250k first month ceiling the handheld titles seem to have.
Forgot about KH...its been too long.
Well made KH title for PS4/720 with good marketing can be big hitter barring another Versus disaster.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Square doesn't know what honor is.
KillerMan91
Member
Releasing earlier with PS2 and totally different game would have maybe actually worked so good point. Still it's hard to say how much the graphics and production values matter with sales of FF in the west. They would have also lost those delicious MS marketing monies (If I remember right MS marketed the shit out of XIII in US). Also as the game sold fine I really don't think that going with HD release with XIII was that bad decision. The bad decision was to ignore critical and user criticism and go full steam ahead with XIII-2. Surprisingly XIII-2 bombed...
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Forget that, KH3 needs to be PS360 (and maybe Wii U) if Nomura wants any hope of bringing the brand back to it's former status. They need a big fat established kiddy base to sell this to, and PS4/TNXB won't be able to deliver that for years to come.
Yeah, SEis their biggest enemy when it comes to the west. They need to look at how western companies successfully sold their RPGs here. Maybe we can get paranoid and think that SE is purposely driving up interested in the titles through the whole operation Suzuka and message boards like this to try and build some free hype for when the games are finally released.
Vitor Navarrete
Neo Member
Given Versus, I don't know if Nomura can deliver KH III in sooner than that.
Meccanical
Member
The post mortem on Versus will be a very fucking interesting read I tell you that.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Considering how SE have handled current gen development, I reckon a KH3 built on the Agnis Engine would be a harbinger of a coming apocalypse.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Then he needs to finally hand over the reigns to 1DD's only competent team (SE Osaka).
The console games market is weak. THQ just bottomed out. Darksiders II failed to even break even. The console sales market in Japan is especially weak. You can see posts on gameindustryinternational every month talking about what percentage the overall market has contracted.
Just look at Sleeping Dogs, a game that's better than GTA IV in gameplay, setting and writing but failed to sell more than 90,000 in the first month (was originally shelved by Activision, despite being fantastic). Same kind of underselling happened to Dragon's Dogma (Capcom game, I know).
I don't think they actually released any console games that they personally developed since last January. Mostly talking about their publishing here, aren't they? Correct me if I'm mistaken.
Didn't everyone say they've turned into one of the best western publishers? The bad news here is that betting on great content in publishing, and betting on great PC ports isn't making them money. Betting on mobile and social is. Consumers are to blame for a lot of this.
Just look at Sleeping Dogs, a game that's better than GTA IV in gameplay, setting and writing but failed to sell more than 90,000 in the first month (was originally shelved by Activision, despite being fantastic). Same kind of underselling happened to Dragon's Dogma (Capcom game, I know).
I don't think they actually released any console games that they personally developed since last January. Mostly talking about their publishing here, aren't they? Correct me if I'm mistaken.
Didn't everyone say they've turned into one of the best western publishers? The bad news here is that betting on great content in publishing, and betting on great PC ports isn't making them money. Betting on mobile and social is. Consumers are to blame for a lot of this.
Surely people will be disappointed no matter what.
Meccanical
Member
The generation was also "difficult" for EA. Take 2 lost money over the course of the generation and still faces buyout threats.
The console market in general is hostile to risk at the moment. Revenue is strong, but profits are very difficult to come by unless you're talking about a well established brand, e.g. GTA, CoD, and Madden and Need for Speed.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
"Developing FF Versus: The Book: The Game: An interactive Final Fantasy"
Meccanical
Member
I stand corrected on Enix. So it is only Square that has seen its game quality collapse dramatically.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Yeah, I think FFXIII did okay all things considered in the end. But then it's also pretty much the only bigger budget SE JRPG to do so on consoles (and the only 3rd party one st all besides Dark Souls). The Last Remnant, Infinite Undiscovery, Star Ocean 4/DC, The Crystal Bearers, Nier and FFXIII-2 all underperformed, and I strongly suspect Lightning Returns will do the same.
And it's not like Wii would've been a sure bet either, the platform had plenty of problems of it's own as well as virtually the entire industry betting against it. But I still think the potential at least was there for something more than PS360 have been able to deliver market wise. And the FFXIII we'd have gotten out of it probably would've been less damaging to the brand overall too.
Meccanical
Member
H_Prestige
Banned
Dude, come on. I know you like nintendo and all...
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Quality wise, I think the Enix groups held up pretty well this gen (DQ, Nier, Moon Diver, etc). They've definitely had their lowpoints too though (Star Ocean 4).
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
It wouldn't have been a corridor RPG, that's all.
H_Prestige
Banned
Just like FFX, right?
You know what? I already have a possibly great idea for promoting the game. Here's my idea based on the fact the game gives you the possibility of summoning trains and airplanes: a little kid is confronting some bullies who're trying to have his lunch when all of a sudden he raises his hands in the air. At first, bullies go all LOLing at him, but then a giant airplane appears starting following them. Then, the voiceover "Did you ever summon a plane? *kid grins* In Bravely Default, you can! *shows gameplay images* An RPG with a nostalgic style, but with modern features. It's time for adventures again in Bravely Default: Flying Fairy. Only on Nintendo 3DS"
Here's my idea.
Now, back IT: since they lost just 60 millions in the last 9 months and that they have over a billion in banks, isn't the "who's gonna buy Square?" talk a little bit premature? =P
Meccanical
Member
Nintendo should buy Square and have them team up with Platinum games to do a game like Dark Souls.
>_>
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Sorry, a one corridor RPG.
The public opinion of SE has never been so low, to a point that is now irreversible. I get people who are following the series/firm ever since their dear childhood are saddened by how both go further to shit with each mainline entry, but their attitude falls in line with spoiled brats' behavior in my book. The stuff I read while I go on my lurking spree... "GAF made me hate XIII games more than the very act of playing them!", "unhealthy consideration over a FF that is yet to be released!", etc. Unhealthy? Really now? Thought the second degree was obvious enough, but apparently not.
Ceiling Narolf is watching you fap, and that is no fan-fiction.
I mean, come on guys, live and let live. You will then complain on how this forum gets negative at times, while you actively nurture said negativity, moreover when you start ganging up against specific individuals (LuuKyK) for no apparent reason other than for him defending his favorite things. I know the guy had its stubborn moments at times, that he stanned Lightning as if she were an idol of all sorts... but I don't see how that is more "childish" than the zeal people exert on this forum in general while they are fond of something in particular.
I've never put all that much stock into "my FF is better than yours" meta-debates because of that kind of shenanigans. Made even worse by the fact you guys will then always purchase the games day one just for the sake to be first at crying a river upon how terrible they are? Start by acknowledging your own contradictions before being all that judgmental towards others.
All you needed was the phrase "What ____ can learn from ____" and it would've been complete.
I . . . I . . .
H_Prestige
Banned
FFX was no less linear than FFXIII. Even its "towns" were just huts and shops scattered along the way.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
FFX had branches. It was extremely linear still, but then it was also on shelves a year after PS2 launch and didn't hamstring most of Square's R&D for half the generation.
Besides which, FFXI/XII were pretty far from corridors and that's where a Wii/PS2 FFXIII could've been building from.
ambientmystic
Member
Damn straight, preach it Durante, my PC comrade. It's like their Japanese developer division in the company forgot that the PC exists after releasing The Last Remnant on it 5 years ago. They're pissing away that free moneys to be made on Steam with their backlog of quality Japanese releases they're withholding from the PC market.
Others like Falcom are beginning to see the light (via XSEED).
Until that magical day arrives, I'll be content with my 3x native ressed, 4x MSAA uprendered FF XII HD on PCSX2. Good enough for now.
You could return to any previously visited location in FFX, which is pretty much a neccessity for completing the bestiary for the dude in the Calm Lands Arena.
Also Airship.
I'm pretty sure you could go backwards in FFX. You can't do that in XIII. And you never get an airship for going back to areas, either.
X's map design might have been linear, but XIII is a shrinking room propelling you forward. There's no back-tracking until Pulse, and only in Pulse, Eden, and the Cradle.
H_Prestige
Banned
That's literally the only difference. Not being able to backtrack is pretty low on the list of FFXIII's problems.
And saying FFX has an airship is pretty disingenuous. Does FFXII also have an airship?
No it wouldn't. Completely different development teams, completely different design philosophies.
FFXIII Wii/ps2 would have been the same exact game, just uglier and released in 2008.
FFX had a bunch of mini games to mess around with (Blitzball! Al Bhed language, hidden spots on the world map only accessible via airship, etc.). All there was to do in FFXIII is literally run straight ahead and fight fight fight. Both were linear, but one did a much better job of masking it (FFX).
H_Prestige
Banned
I'm not saying FFX didn't have more to offer than FFXIII. Just that the maps were still corridors like FFXIII and there was essentially only one way to go.
Ah, gotcha. What a difference incorporating everything else makes though. FFX feels like an open world RPG next to FFXIII.
/hyperbole
They...already do that.
LMFAO
To be fair the [...] part is actually important here.
Pretty sure he meant all the browser/Mobage/Social games instead of actual retail titles. It's not the first time they say that they make ton of cash out of browser/Mobage games.
It will be really interesting if FFXIV bombs. What are they going to do next?
Seriously? This is the first town in the game:
As you can see, its not terribly complicated, but there's stuff to do. Towns serve a function beyond giving you a place to buy items. They establish pacing, they give you something to do besides fighting all the time , and they allowed you to soak up the serenity, so that you could develop an attachment to a foreign land and by extension a motivation to protect it. The random npc's may seem insignificant, but they served an important purpose in the greater narrative. They gave us a window into humanity's stake in the universe, and we didn't need to read about their society and cultural views in a codex because we got to see it first-hand.
By comparison, you get to the first "town" in Final Fantasy XIII eleven hours into the game:
It's evacuated, lifeless, and another monster hallway, expect the wallpaper is now building-sidings instead of mountain sides. Everything we learn about Palumpolum's culture, people, and economy is delivered in the codex. It'd be a stretch to even call it a setpiece, since the events occurring in chapter 7 have no connection to the town itself.
Is the console market shrinking? Yes, console game sales are down from the heyday of 2009. Weak? Ehhh, they're back down to 2006 levels. Was the console market weak in 2006? 2003? 1999?
You've officially gone over the deep end.
Kind of funny how they make the yellow lines turn corners for no reason. If they just connected the zones, it would be pretty linear.
A lot of that is just the load screens making the city seem bigger than it actually is. If Academia was on PS2, it would probably have over 30 different load screen areas. It's a huge city, just that on PS3 it all is loaded at once. It might be bigger than all the towns in FFX combined.
It'll be interesting to see people complain about LR, even though it's supposedly going to have more shops than any previous FF game.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
lol, no. FFXIII's claustrophic linearity was a direct outgrowth of HD asset creation. This is a pretty well known fact, and why the game's development cycle was so inherently problematic.
That would not have been an issue at all on Wii and/or PS2, and the resulting game likely would have been far, far different. The game also likely would've been cellshaded given what we know of the PS2 rev that actually was in development, so "uglier" might be in the eye of the beholder. Wind Waker and Okami still look pretty damn pleasing imo.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Academia is the prime example of why towns in rpgs nowadays are pointless. They're fluff and filler that hold nothing but npcs that add no story and artificially spread out merchant options. Srpgs handle them the best way - a menu for each important thing and a neat little picture in the back. All the "immersion" I need. Rabanastre sure looks fuckin cool but in the grand scheme it's a giant time sink for walking time.