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Star Wars: The Last Plinkett Review
- Thread starter PerezDeCorcho
- Start date
Warm Machine
Member
Watching this reminded me at how broken the tone is. TLJ is really the most cartoony of all of the Star Wars movies. It makes the goofiest looking aliens, makes jokes out of pretty well anything dramatic, and the acting is all overwrought and overdone. For all the effort put into female leadership, which I didn't even really notice when I first watched the film, the Resistance sure gets their assess kicked and everyone killed due to poor decisions by that very same leadership. On that front I don't think the messaging was clear at all given everyone died. People bitch about Phantom Menace being pointless, this was far and away more pointless. It overturned the last film to start over again and even made the entire galaxy completely ambivalent to the existence of the First Order. You wonder why the couple dozen Resistance fighters care if no one else does.
pel1300
Member
Any link to this? I did a search on youtube and google but found nothing. I know that moviebob loves episode 8.
pel1300
Member
So much this....you would think the rest of the Galaxy would be totally against the FO....it's like if some country decided to nuke 5 countries in Europe into oblivion. Or if North Korea nuked South Korea, Japan, and parts of the US (Guam and Hawaii)....the entire world would obliterate North Korea.
I seriously was hoping Ep 8 would involve forces around the galaxy getting together to unite against the First Order and give the Resistance more resources and troops.
I also thought the First Order would be in disarray after losing so many soldiers along with their main base...but then they would get alt right sympathizers...so that would level the playing field a bit.
MilkyJoe
Member
Because Rian Johnson doesn't give a fuck about anything other than subverting expectations, like that is supposed to be a good thing,
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
One thing I love about RLM is they still act like guys from the 2000s, ie they call it as they see it, as people used to be allowed to do, if they think a movie is shitty they'll say so and not give a shit if it pisses off feminists or liberals, as seen with both TLJ and Ghostbusters.
In fact let's stop and think about how absurd it is that we live in times where people will defend movies for political reasons, not documentaries, just movies that are supposed to be entertainment.
In fact let's stop and think about how absurd it is that we live in times where people will defend movies for political reasons, not documentaries, just movies that are supposed to be entertainment.
TheContact
Member
I love Plinkett reviews so much, especially the Star Wars ones. I've disgracefully never seen this movie so now I have to watch it so I can watch this review.
LegendOfKage
Member
Imagine someone said to you, "Hey, I got tickets to see Journey! You want to go? I mean, none of the guys who were in the band from the 70s or 80s will be there anymore, and the music sounds way different, and the new guys absolutely refuse to play any of the old hits, and the people who wrote and produced all the Journey music that you loved aren't there anymore, but still man, It's JOURNEY! We can see an all new Journey concert today!"
Because that's how I feel about the prospect of watching Episode IX. It's just high-budget fan fiction at this point, and I'm done.
Because that's how I feel about the prospect of watching Episode IX. It's just high-budget fan fiction at this point, and I'm done.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
TLJ showed me that not only do they not have any new ideas, they are bad with the old ones. the bit with Luke as an aging Jedi living in hiding and only being discovered at the very end of the film ... this was actually George Lucas's idea from the SW draft process. it's a 45 year old idea! what did they do with it? a lame remake of Empire Strikes Back (Yoda/Obi Wan training), followed by a sequence stolen from Return of the Jedi (throne room), concluded by another ripoff of Empire (Hoth battle) and multiple scenes from A New Hope (Obi Wan's sacrifical sword fight on the other side of a door followed by twin suns nostalgia to rip off Lucas one more time). (is this what they call doing things that have never been done with Star Wars? pretty sure the Casino thing was in an episode of the Ewoks cartoon.)
the worst thing about it is people saying "Can't you see how unexpected and brilliant this is?" or calling it "Subversive" or "Never before done". yes it's been done before, it was done 40 years ago. it's the same old thing, done worse, with a smirk. the film think it is better than its source material, it is immensely condescending (RLM pointing out how characters state the exact same thing so idiots can understand). deconstructionism is fine but if you aren't creating anything new i have no reason to go to your movie. why not just write a blog about it or something. if i want to take apart SW i will watch people like RLM.
the worst thing is the weaponizing of SJW stuff. it is ironic because Finn and Rey are vastly under-served by their stories and this is some kind of lame shield against criticism. "old Star Wars was only about white males" is the party line now. yet look at Empire -- both white males fail entirely: Han Solo is frozen in carbonite (and possibly killed), Luke has his arm cut off, crying for mercy. both are saved by Leia and Lando -- two minorities in fact save the day in the most beloved film. Lando even destroys the death star in the next film. but Billy Dee Williams was refused participation in TLJ to make way for Justin Theroux.
the worst thing about it is people saying "Can't you see how unexpected and brilliant this is?" or calling it "Subversive" or "Never before done". yes it's been done before, it was done 40 years ago. it's the same old thing, done worse, with a smirk. the film think it is better than its source material, it is immensely condescending (RLM pointing out how characters state the exact same thing so idiots can understand). deconstructionism is fine but if you aren't creating anything new i have no reason to go to your movie. why not just write a blog about it or something. if i want to take apart SW i will watch people like RLM.
the worst thing is the weaponizing of SJW stuff. it is ironic because Finn and Rey are vastly under-served by their stories and this is some kind of lame shield against criticism. "old Star Wars was only about white males" is the party line now. yet look at Empire -- both white males fail entirely: Han Solo is frozen in carbonite (and possibly killed), Luke has his arm cut off, crying for mercy. both are saved by Leia and Lando -- two minorities in fact save the day in the most beloved film. Lando even destroys the death star in the next film. but Billy Dee Williams was refused participation in TLJ to make way for Justin Theroux.
Nymphae
Banned
Spoilers ahead for TLJ if anyone seriously cares....
I laughed so hard in the theatre at the scene where the asian girl stops Finn from sacrificing himself to save the rebels. First of all, I would expect a full speed T-bone to be a fatal accident for both of them, but we'll let that slide.
It's been a while since I've seen it, but IIRC, Finn was sacrificing himself to stop the advancing ships, and save the last remnants of the Rebellion. Asian girl decides this can't happen, and t-bones Finn to safety. They have a touching moment holding eachother as she explains that they save the people they love or some sappy bullshit, literally as the empire blasts the fuck out of the remaining rebellion forces - directly over the shoulder of the 2 characters in frame.
Like holy shit, she robs him of the one substantial thing Finn actually does in these movies, which directly results in the rebellion losing even more of their already dwindling forces. They didn't have to frame it so the rebellion is getting blown the fuck apart as they hug though, such a weird decision.
Edit: Also, just a little thing that annoyed me about TFA - Han using a lever to MANUALLY pull the Falcon out of hyperdrive, in the distance between the planet surface and it's outer force field. Are you absolutely fucking kidding me?
I laughed so hard in the theatre at the scene where the asian girl stops Finn from sacrificing himself to save the rebels. First of all, I would expect a full speed T-bone to be a fatal accident for both of them, but we'll let that slide.
It's been a while since I've seen it, but IIRC, Finn was sacrificing himself to stop the advancing ships, and save the last remnants of the Rebellion. Asian girl decides this can't happen, and t-bones Finn to safety. They have a touching moment holding eachother as she explains that they save the people they love or some sappy bullshit, literally as the empire blasts the fuck out of the remaining rebellion forces - directly over the shoulder of the 2 characters in frame.
Like holy shit, she robs him of the one substantial thing Finn actually does in these movies, which directly results in the rebellion losing even more of their already dwindling forces. They didn't have to frame it so the rebellion is getting blown the fuck apart as they hug though, such a weird decision.
Edit: Also, just a little thing that annoyed me about TFA - Han using a lever to MANUALLY pull the Falcon out of hyperdrive, in the distance between the planet surface and it's outer force field. Are you absolutely fucking kidding me?
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Catphish
Member
Yeah but Arnel Pineda is awesome.
LegendOfKage
Member
I just picked Journey because they were a band popular around the same time. Journey still has members who were in the original band, and they still play their old songs. The Journey in my example was a hypothetical. If they were completely different people who didn't want to have anything to do with their old songs anymore, then they wouldn't even be Journey. They'd just be some new band calling themselves Journey, which is how I now feel about Star Wars. Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I could have worded that better.
Catphish
Member
That hurt to watch.
JimiNutz
Banned
If I remember correctly the cannon is already firing as Finn is racing towards it. It was not possible for him to make it in time the weapon was going to blast straight through him killing him while still blasting open the doors.
Rose saves Finn because his plan wasn’t going to work, and everybody but him could see it. She didn’t screw up his noble destruction of the battering ram cannon. She saved him from disintegrating uselessly in its beam.
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Grinchy
Banned
I thought that was the point? It looked like he was going to do the Independence Day thing and put his ship all up in the blaster's face right in time for it to fire off its big attack causing it to explode itself. I dunno if it would have worked or not, but if we get too scientific about that, we can't ignore the fact that Rose and Finn would have both died in the collision she caused anyway.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
its a bad argument anyways since the film sets up a theme of nobly sacrificing your life for the Resistance. at the start Page Tico sacrifices herself to do the space bombs. then right before Finn's moment Holdo sacrifices herself to do lightspeed ramming. both successful. and immediately after Finn is denied the same, Luke sacrifices himself to save the Resistance. this is a main theme of the movie and one i don't really care for. to me the Empire was all about sacrificing people for this ideology, to see the other side doing the same is unfortunate.
people claim it shows the "Theme of Failure" but i never bought this theme as anything more than empty posturing. all of the new characters don't fail, they actually come out better than they started:
- Rey starts off an inexperienced Jedi with parental issues, ham-strung by the shadow of the great Luke. she ends up single-handedly saving the Resistance, besting Luke, and realizing her parents don't matter cos some art school level mirrors bullshit.
- Finn starts off as a traitor, for some reason, eliminating his entire arc from TFA. he is tased by Narc Rose and accused of abandoning ship for not being a real Rebel. by the end, he has proved himself again, his status as a Real RebelTM enshrined by having an extremist girlfriend who stops him from trying to save everyone (something 3 other characters pull off w no problem).
- Poe starts off a no name guy, ends up getting away with disobeying orders and starting a mutiny. since the higher ups like him, he is essentially given license to kill, he is the lone face of the Resistance by the end. good thing Leia survived so she could pardon this dangerous lunatic.
so they all end up with more experience, more power, more status than they started. even if it doesn't make any sense at all. for instance it is hard to buy a movie where Finn (a hero who on a previous mission helped destroy Starkiller Base) is assumed a traitor but Poe can ignore orders and pull guns on superior officers and spends no time in the brig. funny, when Han Solo, an illegal smuggler with bounties on his head, decided to ditch the rebellion at the end of ANH, he was rewarded with a ton of money and no questions asked.
the only way it makes sense is if you shut off your brain. it has all the depth of a Disney cartoon.
people claim it shows the "Theme of Failure" but i never bought this theme as anything more than empty posturing. all of the new characters don't fail, they actually come out better than they started:
- Rey starts off an inexperienced Jedi with parental issues, ham-strung by the shadow of the great Luke. she ends up single-handedly saving the Resistance, besting Luke, and realizing her parents don't matter cos some art school level mirrors bullshit.
- Finn starts off as a traitor, for some reason, eliminating his entire arc from TFA. he is tased by Narc Rose and accused of abandoning ship for not being a real Rebel. by the end, he has proved himself again, his status as a Real RebelTM enshrined by having an extremist girlfriend who stops him from trying to save everyone (something 3 other characters pull off w no problem).
- Poe starts off a no name guy, ends up getting away with disobeying orders and starting a mutiny. since the higher ups like him, he is essentially given license to kill, he is the lone face of the Resistance by the end. good thing Leia survived so she could pardon this dangerous lunatic.
so they all end up with more experience, more power, more status than they started. even if it doesn't make any sense at all. for instance it is hard to buy a movie where Finn (a hero who on a previous mission helped destroy Starkiller Base) is assumed a traitor but Poe can ignore orders and pull guns on superior officers and spends no time in the brig. funny, when Han Solo, an illegal smuggler with bounties on his head, decided to ditch the rebellion at the end of ANH, he was rewarded with a ton of money and no questions asked.
the only way it makes sense is if you shut off your brain. it has all the depth of a Disney cartoon.
Xenon
Member
Pagusas
Elden Member
God damn, if i couldn't hate the guy more, now he's having to resort to outright lying to defend his horrible script and directing?
Duallusion
Member
As someone who has pretty much zero reverence for the whole SW saga and thought TLJ was pretty fun/good (after one and only viewing) and didn't think much about the details of the plot... yeah, this review made me a believer: TLJ really doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. To me, not because it's subversive or for whatever reason hardcore fans dislike it; it just plain 'ol dumb way too often as a movie on its own.
This was the first Plinkett review I've seen and I subbed half an hour in; love the humor and surprisingly inteligent, in-depth criticism combo.
This was the first Plinkett review I've seen and I subbed half an hour in; love the humor and surprisingly inteligent, in-depth criticism combo.
Ulysses 31
Member
You should probably check out Mauler's TLJ review and critiques too to see how badly movie hold up.
PrCat88
Member
"I can't wait to get more on that" has been my most quotable remark to any of these Disney star wars reviews.
JimiNutz
Banned
Yeah I think Po says, the weapon is already firing, your ship won't make it. Then we see the ship starting to break up and disintegrate. I do get what you mean about it being a bit of a stupid scene though.
Ulysses 31
Member
Come to think of it, what was even the point of the rebels going out with those things that can't even fire? Just drive to the AT-STs and then what?
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Shouta
Member
The only movies that hold up are A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back really. Every other one has huge problems when scrutinized. TLJ is still my favorite after those for what it tries to do, despite all of the problems the film has.
It's kind of interesting that the biggest problem with the last half of Return of the Jedi made its way into The Last Jedi, too many things going on but like only a little bit of it was interesting.
Grinchy
Banned
And, in typical NewStarWars fashion, why did the bad guys park their crafts 4 miles away from their target despite having incredible maneuverability and being able to land right up next to the big door?
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5secondrulesucks
Banned
lmao journey is the band you use for your analogy
Kadayi
Banned
^This. RoTJ isn't particularly good. I think this was when Lucas realised the merchandising opportunities were insane and so he threw hundreds of different aliens into the mix to sell huge amounts of future landfill.
Weiji
Banned
Oh God. Just keep digging that hole motherfuckers. Bury the Star Wars franchise deep.
I can’t believe I tried to defend them in the other thread.
They didn’t just try and fail. They are disingenuous a holes Jesus.
pel1300
Member
To be fair to Mark Hamill...he actually doesn't wanna defend this movie.
Here is the timeline:
2016 to early/,mid 2017: "I can't believe what they are doing with my character. I fundamentally disagree with every decision you have made with my character"
late 2017: "I feel bad for being so open about what I said. Yeah I had disagreements but I came to appreciate what Rian Johnson did and I did my best to see his vision come true..he was the best man for the job"
Shortly after the movie is already released: "A Jedi would NEVER give up...Luke would NEVER say something like that...WHO IS THIS GUY??!?!? I had to think of this as not Luke Skywalker....let's just call him Jake Skywalker....he's not my Luke"
then.....the blu-ray comes out in March...so Lucasfilm phones him up again... and....he has to go full PR mode again...
However in a VERY recent tweet he bashed the movie again...just a few weeks ago...he said he still doesn't understand why and what they did with his character.
Then like last week a fan tweeted at Mark..."Why did Luke blahblahablah" and Mr. Hamill responded "When I understand, I'll let you know"
I love how Mark Hamill...while he has enough professionalism to not totally shit on the movie because he is...after all, an employee...he still realizes that neglecting the fans is also shitting where you eat as well. He can't be controlled the way the other actors are because he is pretty much Star Wars royalty.
I'm sorry, did Mark Hamill say "pure hatred". Criticizing a shitty movie is "pure hatred" now. Seriously what the fuck is wrong with people who live in Hollywood.
Also to compare Empire to TLJ just shows how fucking oblivious Rian Johnson is. People weren't angry at Empire because Empire left you wanting more. Empire left you conflicted and eager to see how they overcome. How Rian Johnson still has fans honestly confuses me.
I saw Empire when I was a kid. I wasn't angry or writing letters to Lucas. I was excited to see return of the jedi.
Shouta
Member
It is strange to me that Hamill doesn't understand Luke's character in TLJ at all. For all of the problems the film has, Luke's character and story works in the film and jives with the situation set-up by TFA. Whether you like it or not is a separate matter but it's pretty easy to understand what happened with Luke.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Two years later, nobody gives a shit about Ghostbusters 2016 anymore.
But what's really sad is it sunk the legacy of the older Ghostbusters, what was once a ubiquitously loved movie now has new political baggage and it seems like people have kinda forgotten Ghostbusters as a whole as a result, it's not a movie people really seem into anymore, which is a fucking shame.
Good going Sony, you killed the legacy of one of the '80s most beloved movies.
Of course that could change and people could come back around after a while.
pel1300
Member
Mark Hamill says:
-If Luke really fucked up that badly...he would take some time to regroup....maybe about a year...not freakin 20 years...and the try to correct his mistakes. Not just give up completely.
And it doesn't really make sense. Episode 7 implied that Luke went to the Jedi Temple on a mission to do something. It was clear as day Luke was trying to do SOMETHING for the greater good and left a MAP so someone could find him....not this whole "I came to the most unfindable place to die" crap.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
This highlights one of the problems with Disney's star wars: that they have not drafted a rough story for the entire trilogy beforehand. Each director follows their own vision unchecked, and do whatever they want, which in turn messes up with a lot of foreshadowing set up by the previous title.
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Shouta
Member
Yet what happened caused Han and Leia to separate for years. I don't think it's at all unbelievable that Luke would be crushed by what happened as he was the trigger for it. It led to Ben falling to the dark side AND the deaths of everyone under his tutelage. That's the biggest failure Luke's ever had and by his own hands. He failed to follow what was taught to him, what he was supposed to be teaching to others.
That's always what gets me confused about everyone's perception of Luke. Everyone sees him as this paragon of hope that wouldn't give up but even in final moments of Return of the Jedi, he was swayed by his emotions and attacked Vader in anger when Leia was brought up. He was always that character throughout the original trilogy too, as his character in TLJ is actually consistent with how he acted there. I mean, he does eventually comeback and does something heroic as shit.
As for Ep 7 stuff, I thought it was always speculation on the character's part and I thought the map wasn't left by Luke specifically for people to find him but that it was just a map to the First Jedi that should be on record. But as Grivenger points out, it just really highlights how they had no gameplan going into these new films.
pel1300
Member
This is what people who defend the film have been saying for the past 10 months.
Basically, it's not unrealistic...in real life people change for the better or worse.
Yes, we get that.
But the thing is: Just because it can happen doesn't make it good storytelling.
It's also not unbelievable that Luke would try to right the wrong he did by stopping Kylo Ren at all costs....that kind of thing happens in real life too....and it makes for better storytelling.
Watch the anime "Monster". It's a great show that shows A Japanese doctor trying to stop the "monster" he created. I wish Luke took the same approach with his creation (dark Kylo Ren).
Back to what Mark Hamill said: He said that YES, Luke would have been crushed, YES Luke would have needed time to get himself together, but that it should have been about 6 months or a year....not 2 decades.
Plus he has Kylo roaming free around the galaxy killing people with the guidance of Snoke for so many years, meanwhile Leia is out there struggling for help all these years because the New Republic isn't fully supporting her (such BS that I had to read outside "canon" sources to get that info)
I get what lessons and Rian Johnson was trying to preach, and I AGREE WITH THEM, but it's just so odd that it was in this movie. Becoming stronger from failure is the main theme of this movie....uh, Rian....this is a universally undertood concept..."What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger"
pel1300
Member
Oh people don't talk about this enough but:
Snoke implies that the dark side and the light have some symbiotic relationship where when one side grows stronger..the other side grows equally strong....uh...what?
That makes everything seem so pointless.
It's used as the explanation of why Rey is so strong in the force (still doesn't explain her skill set).
So no matter what happens.....both the light and the dark will be equal.
Oookkaaaay...so why should we care now?
Snoke implies that the dark side and the light have some symbiotic relationship where when one side grows stronger..the other side grows equally strong....uh...what?
That makes everything seem so pointless.
It's used as the explanation of why Rey is so strong in the force (still doesn't explain her skill set).
So no matter what happens.....both the light and the dark will be equal.
Oookkaaaay...so why should we care now?
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
That's my thoughts, maybe it "could" happen but that doesn't mean you have to like it, it's too dark, this is really the fate we want for Luke, Han and Leia?
Nah, fuck this fanfiction bullshit.
In hindsight this RLM video was really quite prescient , especially considering they posted it just weeks before the sale to Disney happened.
Lucas just couldn't let Star Wars ride gracefully off into the sunset, it was one last FU to the fans, rather than leaving behind a legacy that would stand the test of time, Star Wars is fast being diluted and will probably be forgotten in a few decades because of it.
Nah, fuck this fanfiction bullshit.
In hindsight this RLM video was really quite prescient , especially considering they posted it just weeks before the sale to Disney happened.
Lucas just couldn't let Star Wars ride gracefully off into the sunset, it was one last FU to the fans, rather than leaving behind a legacy that would stand the test of time, Star Wars is fast being diluted and will probably be forgotten in a few decades because of it.
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Helios
Member
This is the redemption arc for George Lucas after the prequels. He will buy the SW rights back from Disney once the franchise is worth nothing and make it great again.
Yeah, I'm dreaming.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
If he were to be humble enough to let other writers and directors take on his ideas, it would actually work very well. Disney's Star Wars lacks the sheer imagination that George Lucas provided to the IP.
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Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
This is what I don't understand is why didn't he just usher in a new generation of filmmakers himself? He could be the overseer while still turning over the reigns of Star Wars to a new generation of filmmakers, think basically the EU but movies instead of books, games and comics.
What happened instead implies he no longer gave a shit and just be wanted to be done with it, I think he realized he made a mistake though, the dude pissed away his life's legacy, that's got to hurt.
But Lucas always came off to me as not being as down to Earth as Spielberg.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
I think that was his original plan? Before he sold the rights to Disney, and even the sell itself. But the new LucasFilms decided to go into a different direction, and there's not much he could do then.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Why didn't he write it into the contract that he would have final say over what they do or don't do?
I don't understand selling the whole kit and kaboodle to Disney, striking a distribution deal maybe, but not that.
kunonabi
Member
The thing is Luke realizes that his anger was getting to him and he pulls himself back. He ignores Yoda, Palpatine's, and Ben's commands and chooses his own path. It's the last step in him becoming the Jedi he wants to be and his entire character arc. Luke in TLJ is entirely contingent on ignoring that and having Luke consider the one thing he would never do as shown on screen previously. Could events spiral out of control to where Luke has that moment of weakness? Maybe, but there needs to be some development in Luke's history and character to support getting from end of RotJ Luke to TLJ flashback Luke. Instead, we get the flimsiest of setups because Johnson doesnt put character first.
Vlaphor
Member
I think he wanted to retire from film making altogether and wanted to make sure that the franchise continued on. I don't think Disney was the best option, but they were able to pony up the 4 billion that Lucas wanted, so they got it.
pel1300
Member
LOL that video totally fits in with Rian Johnson's "Let the past die...kill it if you have to".
I'm just puzzled as to why Rian Johnson was so determined and set on this "subvert expectations" philosophy. It's like Rian Johnson read every fan theory out there, which means he was aware of almost every possible outcome, and chose to do everything that was not associated with ANY fan theory....therefore rendering his options to.....almost nothing....and that is what we got.,.a movie where it feels like nothing happened....well except the Resistance being totally destroyed and not consisting of 12 people..as opposed to the 250 people before (again, WTF? in TFA it seemed like the Resistance had at least thousands of people).
kunonabi
Member
I heard that it mostly about making sure the Lucasfilm employees would continue to have jobs.