Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Yeah. The fact that I have such hard criticisms of this should tell you everything you need to know. I even own a fansite for the game and this change with the gunplay pisses me off.
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StarWars Battlefront 2 looks like case of being careful what you wish for [EuroGamer]
- Thread starter Tal Shiar Agent
- Start date
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Chill guys... in BF1 you know map routes. Beta always have TRASH MAPS
Im just disappointed the big 20v20 mode is still nothing but linear gameplay. They cash in on the original games name but dont even try to bring in the one mode people really loved: Conquest.
Well maybe Campaign will be fun. Maybe theyll add Conquest later? I dont know. Ill still play the final game but I just dont enjoy the slow paced linear gameplay.
Well maybe Campaign will be fun. Maybe theyll add Conquest later? I dont know. Ill still play the final game but I just dont enjoy the slow paced linear gameplay.
I am buying this because it has a single player campaign that will give me alot more enjoyment then the multi player could.
spindoctor
Member
The first game was a monstrous success in terms of sales and a colossal failure in terms of quality.
So far there is no indication that this game will be any different.
So far there is no indication that this game will be any different.
Hmm didnt find it much complicated at all, seems mostly straight forward.
Only issues I have had was figuring out how to fucking duck, and what all the UI means, and what my objectives are.
I think its just the right amount of arcady shooter, with a bit more depth than BF1. Not sure how I feel about the loot and not sure Ill actually pick it up though.
Oh and I really dislike the current flight controls.
Only issues I have had was figuring out how to fucking duck, and what all the UI means, and what my objectives are.
I think its just the right amount of arcady shooter, with a bit more depth than BF1. Not sure how I feel about the loot and not sure Ill actually pick it up though.
Oh and I really dislike the current flight controls.
Lol same here. Idk why it isn't tap to crouch and double tap to roll.
Yeah, I don't think the problems are its complexity...the gameplay really feels off. The beta actually pushed me back to the original and I was surprised at how much I still enjoy it. The good thing is that I don't think the player numbers will drop too much at the release of BF2 now, so I still have some time left with that.
As others said, the only real improvement is to the space battles, and the controls take a bit of getting used to, even after you invert them.
As others said, the only real improvement is to the space battles, and the controls take a bit of getting used to, even after you invert them.
I wanted a single player campaign because I want a story-based Star Wars game. Ideally in RPG form but since EA doesn't want to put in the investment, I'll take whatever I can get. I want story bad enough that I might buy this game (if it seems substantial / reviews well) even though I'm not the biggest fan of most shooters.
For me, the main benefit of Star Wars is the universe and the lore. Just having storm troopers in beautiful environments is neat but I'd love to be able to invest in an open world skyrim-like RPG. Maybe with the Star Wars Rebels crew, whatever. Without any story, it's not really using the full power of the license.
The most common explanations are that the stick deadzones are too high, or that you are simply coming from the 2015 game which played very differently. For the former, just lower the stick dead zone in control settings, but theres not much you can do about the latter except just to get used to it.
I've mentioned earlier in the thread that I find the aiming itself to feel stiff, not just in comparison to the previous game but other shooters as well. I haven't really messed around with the mouse sensitivity though. I also find blaster pistols to feel rather weak compared to those in Battlefront 2015, while others have mentioned the reduced blaster effects having a negative effect on the visual feedback that comes from landing shots. I still find landing shots and getting kills to feel satisfying, but there are some noticeable changes.
Main issue with Battlefront I think is that it has been trying to closely to be a Battlefront game. They never should've made the game a Battlefront game. All the issues I personally have stem from the legacy of Battlefront or DICE's funky interpretation of it. I get why they did it. Capitalize on the fanbase of the original games. But it's Star Wars. They didn't actually need the old school fan base.
DICE is quite capable of making a fun and engaging shooter game. They should've made their Star Wars game more their own. Make it something new and original. Build it to their strengths. But they followed the past too closely. The best example is the third person combat. It's there only because thats what Battlefront was in the past. I don't enjoy that perspective and plenty of people don't. There is no reason for it to be there. It kind of feels like even DICE doesn't actually wants it but feels forced to do so.
DICE is quite capable of making a fun and engaging shooter game. They should've made their Star Wars game more their own. Make it something new and original. Build it to their strengths. But they followed the past too closely. The best example is the third person combat. It's there only because thats what Battlefront was in the past. I don't enjoy that perspective and plenty of people don't. There is no reason for it to be there. It kind of feels like even DICE doesn't actually wants it but feels forced to do so.
BinaryBear07
Member
I like what I saw of the beta. I can't wait to play the full game.
prag16
Banned
I've gotten enough used to the gunplay changes that this doesn't really bother me anymore to be honest.
What's worrying me more now is the loot box shenanigans. I find myself in faceoffs that there's no way I should have lost, and then I see the stacked loadout the opponent was using. I've only put around 3 hours in while I'm sure some have put in 30 unlocking tons of shit. I have no crafting parts to upgrade anything else and it's all up to RNG bullshit loot boxes.
I'm not that great at games like this to begin with; I'm maybe "above average" at best. So put me at a slight disadvantage, and I start to struggle.
tearsintherain
Member
Yeah, seems like a weird comment. Only played a few hours of beta but it seemed pretty simple and easy to jump in, but with enough complexity that you could spend a lot of time getting a lot better. But I was able to get a lot of kills and have a lot of fun (on console, tried a little on PC too) without really having to understand a lot of the mechanics. I still am not really sure how exactly the specialist position works for example, like I can bring up my scanner and I see people behind buildings and it auto marks people out in the open but I'm not sure if clicking buttons while I am zoomed in on my scope is doing anything...
Now Rainbow Six or Overwatch or Battlefield 1 I would argue are games that can feel overwhelming before you even start.
Now Rainbow Six or Overwatch or Battlefield 1 I would argue are games that can feel overwhelming before you even start.
RichiRamjag
Member
Agree with all of this. Their blend of the old with their vision just isnt working for me at all. Ive never played a game where I can play it and feel absolutely nothing but disappointment, but I got that feeling with both the original and the new beta. Id rather they do something more similar to what they do.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Am i missing something here? How have they done much to address the complaints about a lack of depth at all? The author of this article doesn't seem to offer much explanation beyond "it feels different".
From what i've played, there is still no sense of depth to the gameplay. That was one of the biggest complaints about the previous game, but the few changes they have made to try to move towards solving that haven't actually addressed the core of the issue at all. It's like they've tried to fix it without knowing what's actually the problem, and just stuck on things that games with more depth usually have without actually thinking about if they help. There's the class system, spawn system and the changes to the shooting mechanics, but the first two of those don't do much at all.
You've got the class system which misses the point of what the classes should be about in this style of game. In something like the original Battlefronts, or Battlefield, the classes are not simply just your loadout. The class you choose defines your role and what you're going to be doing to help the team overall. Using the classic battlefront 2 as an example, you had the standard trooper class which was your go-to combat role, shock trooper which was needed for anti-tank, engineer that was needed for repairing and was the close range support, and then marksman which was your longer range unit. In comparison to the new game they had more teamwork oriented roles. The officer in the new game is a class that's there's to buff teammates, but that doesn't provide the same degree of teamwork as the classes of the original games or Battlefield do. Basically, the classes here are just more like weapon loadouts than actual roles that you'll need on the team. It's more choosing "What loadout do i want" than there being any situations of "What role does the team need"; ultimately, it doesn't matter what you go for.
The vehicles are something that's now somewhat more prevelant than the previous game as you can spawn them in, but they are not handled in a good way at all. They're treated more like temporary power-ups than anything. Unlike something like Battlefield, it doesn't feel like it's proper combined-arms, they feel secondary to the infantry classes and like they're just shoved in. You can't get out of vehicles without them exploding, they're single-crew, they're only repaired by an ability, they have no sort of ammo and are ultimately just there to make a single player more powerful for a while. They don't have the same sort of feel that vehicles on the other games did, where they can be an important part of the team and overall strategy, it feels like they're just there for some reason but are overall not that important.
I think they've entirely missed what the problem with the lack of depth was in the first game. It was the lack of any coherance and teamwork. The original game had things like ammo and healing with medical and ammo droids or player drops, a class system where the classes had actual purposes, multi-crew vehicles that were a critical part of the combined-arms gameplay and didn't seem irrelevant to the infantry gameplay, transport vehicles, the engineer class that was needed for repairs, the shock trooper that was needed for anti-tank, equipment with limited uses etc. There was more to encourage teamwork and actually working together, but with this it's like they've tried to shove in more depth and teamwork without realizing what is actually needed for those things.
The game still seems to be an extremely arcadey, simple experience where it doesn't feel like what you're doing ultimately makes much difference overall. There's not as much of a cohesive combined-arms, team-oriented experience to it when compared to the originals. That was what the Battlefront experience was supposed to be about and there's none of that here. That doesn't mean it's a bad game that you can't enjoy, but it's not good that it still doesn't reach the level of depth and teamwork the originals had despite that being something a lot of people complained about with the previous game and how they said they'd "listened" to those complaints.
Ontop of that you've then got their absurd, immersion-breaking choices like all weapons and heroes in every era, and the silly emotes. For them to go on about how they want an immersive, authentic experience, but then to just throw that idea out by shoving in something that completely goes against that goal seems like they don't really have that much integrity with their vision regarding authenticity/immersion for the game and what they say they actually want that to be.
From what i've played, there is still no sense of depth to the gameplay. That was one of the biggest complaints about the previous game, but the few changes they have made to try to move towards solving that haven't actually addressed the core of the issue at all. It's like they've tried to fix it without knowing what's actually the problem, and just stuck on things that games with more depth usually have without actually thinking about if they help. There's the class system, spawn system and the changes to the shooting mechanics, but the first two of those don't do much at all.
You've got the class system which misses the point of what the classes should be about in this style of game. In something like the original Battlefronts, or Battlefield, the classes are not simply just your loadout. The class you choose defines your role and what you're going to be doing to help the team overall. Using the classic battlefront 2 as an example, you had the standard trooper class which was your go-to combat role, shock trooper which was needed for anti-tank, engineer that was needed for repairing and was the close range support, and then marksman which was your longer range unit. In comparison to the new game they had more teamwork oriented roles. The officer in the new game is a class that's there's to buff teammates, but that doesn't provide the same degree of teamwork as the classes of the original games or Battlefield do. Basically, the classes here are just more like weapon loadouts than actual roles that you'll need on the team. It's more choosing "What loadout do i want" than there being any situations of "What role does the team need"; ultimately, it doesn't matter what you go for.
The vehicles are something that's now somewhat more prevelant than the previous game as you can spawn them in, but they are not handled in a good way at all. They're treated more like temporary power-ups than anything. Unlike something like Battlefield, it doesn't feel like it's proper combined-arms, they feel secondary to the infantry classes and like they're just shoved in. You can't get out of vehicles without them exploding, they're single-crew, they're only repaired by an ability, they have no sort of ammo and are ultimately just there to make a single player more powerful for a while. They don't have the same sort of feel that vehicles on the other games did, where they can be an important part of the team and overall strategy, it feels like they're just there for some reason but are overall not that important.
I think they've entirely missed what the problem with the lack of depth was in the first game. It was the lack of any coherance and teamwork. The original game had things like ammo and healing with medical and ammo droids or player drops, a class system where the classes had actual purposes, multi-crew vehicles that were a critical part of the combined-arms gameplay and didn't seem irrelevant to the infantry gameplay, transport vehicles, the engineer class that was needed for repairs, the shock trooper that was needed for anti-tank, equipment with limited uses etc. There was more to encourage teamwork and actually working together, but with this it's like they've tried to shove in more depth and teamwork without realizing what is actually needed for those things.
The game still seems to be an extremely arcadey, simple experience where it doesn't feel like what you're doing ultimately makes much difference overall. There's not as much of a cohesive combined-arms, team-oriented experience to it when compared to the originals. That was what the Battlefront experience was supposed to be about and there's none of that here. That doesn't mean it's a bad game that you can't enjoy, but it's not good that it still doesn't reach the level of depth and teamwork the originals had despite that being something a lot of people complained about with the previous game and how they said they'd "listened" to those complaints.
Ontop of that you've then got their absurd, immersion-breaking choices like all weapons and heroes in every era, and the silly emotes. For them to go on about how they want an immersive, authentic experience, but then to just throw that idea out by shoving in something that completely goes against that goal seems like they don't really have that much integrity with their vision regarding authenticity/immersion for the game and what they say they actually want that to be.
L4DANathan
Member
Wow, that reads like a PR statement.
Cynn
Member
People sure are jumping onto the loot box hate bandwagon with both feet eh? Like season passes were better in any way, shape or form.
RichiRamjag
Member
I prefer them to loot boxes that provide in game benefits, yes.
What A Time To Be Alive
Member
Loot crates are bullshit in their current form but the game is not complicated at all. Hell I actually like it a helluva lot more than the first one.
Cuningas de Häme
Member
First Battlefront (DICE version) is better. This is just like the old Battlefronts, shitty copy of Battlefield with a Star Wars skin.
First Strike mod for BF1942 is so much better than any of the Battlefronts, be it new or old.
First Strike mod for BF1942 is so much better than any of the Battlefronts, be it new or old.
I'm enjoying the ground combat but starfighter is probably the highlight and biggest surprise from the beta. It's incredibly fun to fly around and shoot down enemy ships. I'm curious how many different starfighter maps will be included on launch.
Gnome Scat
Member
I think it's a huge step up over BF2015, that game was super disappointing.
buttery fistful
Member
Just remake the original Battlefront 2
TDLink
Member
This post is all so true. Especially the bolded.
Biff
Member
Excellent post that perfectly puts my thoughts into words too. Well done.
This was the same problem I had with the 2015 Battlefront.
It drove me off the wall how people kept saying it was an authentic experience when the game had almost every player jumping around with jetpacks, Stromtroopers without helmets, a nonsensical Walker Assault mode that made no sense as to why an AT-AT would suddenly become invincible or vulnerable at predetermined times, and other small things that just showed that DICE had tons of people that were great at recreating props and look but not many were actually Star Wars fans.
Why does it have to be one or the other? Both fucking suck.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Here is how I would make battlefront 2 better moving forward.
- for base classes remove all non-launcher weapons from star cards and reduce the number you can choose to two .
- all guns removed from star cards become secondary weapons, or even primary weapons.
- add about 20 more primary weapons to the game (5 per class) and 5 secondaries (all classes have access to same secondaries).
- add attachments for all primary weapons that have meaningful gameplay differences.
- have a loudout for each class just like battlefield (primary, secondary, star card 1, star card 2).
- for heroes keep things basically the same (have 3 star cards) .
- add in a real conquest mode with speeders that you can jump into (like horses in bf1).
- bump the player count to 64 on conquest maps. Have walkers and capital ships be behemoths from battlefield 1.
- bring back titan mode from bf2142. Have titan mode in both space and land battles.
- remove health imbalance of classes by default.
- allow players to replace an active star card with a passive if they wish.
- tweak combat to feel faster. (Increase player speed, vaulting, etc)
- allow battle point banking as long as you remain on the server (points carry over to the next game.
- put a cool down on how soon you can play as the hero you just played as.
- allow assault to be a medic if they wish by choosing medic cards.
- make sure each class has a defined role
All of that would make bf2 way better.
- for base classes remove all non-launcher weapons from star cards and reduce the number you can choose to two .
- all guns removed from star cards become secondary weapons, or even primary weapons.
- add about 20 more primary weapons to the game (5 per class) and 5 secondaries (all classes have access to same secondaries).
- add attachments for all primary weapons that have meaningful gameplay differences.
- have a loudout for each class just like battlefield (primary, secondary, star card 1, star card 2).
- for heroes keep things basically the same (have 3 star cards) .
- add in a real conquest mode with speeders that you can jump into (like horses in bf1).
- bump the player count to 64 on conquest maps. Have walkers and capital ships be behemoths from battlefield 1.
- bring back titan mode from bf2142. Have titan mode in both space and land battles.
- remove health imbalance of classes by default.
- allow players to replace an active star card with a passive if they wish.
- tweak combat to feel faster. (Increase player speed, vaulting, etc)
- allow battle point banking as long as you remain on the server (points carry over to the next game.
- put a cool down on how soon you can play as the hero you just played as.
- allow assault to be a medic if they wish by choosing medic cards.
- make sure each class has a defined role
All of that would make bf2 way better.
It annoys me when people say they really like the first game, but this one has too many problems. Overwhelming consensus seems to be the first game, despite a hardcore fanbase, had some of the shittiest gunplay in gaming.
After buying it and playing it I agree. Game was garbage.
2 needs help. A lot of it. But it at least had a better foundation. This beta should have been 6 months ago though.
After buying it and playing it I agree. Game was garbage.
2 needs help. A lot of it. But it at least had a better foundation. This beta should have been 6 months ago though.
TDLink
Member
Battlefield 1 and Titanfall 2, both games EA released last year and are now available through Access, are way way more fun to play. So why would would I switch to playing this instead? The only draw at that point is the Star Wars of it all. And yeah, that is a big draw. But if I'm going to dedicate my multiplayer shooter time to a game, I want it to feel satisfying too. Right now, it doesn't.
I can't believe what they've done with vehicles this time around; as someone else mentioned, they feel like COD killstreaks now...I wanted to re-live that bit at the end of attack of the clones, where the landing ships turn up, you load on and then cart a bunch of people to the front line.
That symbiosis between vehicles and infantry is still sorely missing from my Battlefront game.
That symbiosis between vehicles and infantry is still sorely missing from my Battlefront game.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
So... you have never played either? This is absolutely nothing like them.Cuningas de Häme;251352752 said:
This shit is Homefront 1 with linear maps.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Battlefront (2015) was a good arcade shooter that needed more content, no season pass and a few tweaks
Battlefront 2 (2017) is
That made me laugh, very loud
Pay2win loot boxes aren't complex, the writer is just silly.
Glass Rebel
Member
I played a bit of the beta and while Starfighter Assault (or whatever its called) is simple fun, its not enough to pry me away from Titanfall 2.
Its a shame because presentation wise it hits all the right notes to a lifelong Star Wars fan.
Its a shame because presentation wise it hits all the right notes to a lifelong Star Wars fan.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
The game is boring garbage. I've haven't had less fun moving and shooting in a recent game.
Even flying feels like you have your hands tied. I played 5 whole minutes, for context.
Even flying feels like you have your hands tied. I played 5 whole minutes, for context.
Fair enough. Personally I thought the changes to flight combat gave you way more freedom and it felt exciting to navigate space and engage in combat with others.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yes, all of this.
New rebirth of this franchise has been a graphical and audio tour de force that was unfortunately tied to an unmitigated failure in overall gameplay experience.
That the franchise manages to get so much right, but fail at the most important aspects in gameplay is breathtaking. To say nothing of the P2W systems.
DICE not getting my money this time around.
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