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[Maxim726X]

Where's the outrage for tiered preorder rewards? The pitchforks were out in force when Deus EX did it.

Honestly, the ignorance is astounding.

They're not even remotely the same situation. Just read.

On topic: Is there a concrete date for Symphonia? I just see early 2016...

I think this is the third time I've purchased this, and I've only played a few minutes of it on the GC. Maybe it's finally time to give the game a try.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

Really looking forward to enjoying Zesteria via Steam Link.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It already has been discussed, and even then there's nothing to compare. They are two entirely different situations .

How so?

Two games offering tiered rewards based on the number of preorders. Explain the difference.

 

[Peff]

How so?

Two games offering tiered rewards based on the number of preorders. Explain the difference.

A free game and a bunch of costumes everyone gets versus picking and choosing four pieces of game content and extras while missing out on the rest and a four-day delay if you choose not to pre-order. Totally the same.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Yall who ain't played ToS who are getting this freebie: enjoy! It's a fun little game despite some rough edges.

 

[SmokedMeat]

A free game and a bunch of costumes everyone gets versus picking and choosing four pieces of game content and extras while missing out on the rest and a four-day delay if you choose not to pre-order. Totally the same.

Ah I see. I thought everyone received all of the content with each Deus tier. I didn't realize it was pick among a couple offerings.

 

[texhnolyze]

If you have Tales of Zestiria pre-ordered, Symphonia is now in your library:

It's.. beautiful..

 

[Momentary]

Yup, his music in THAT boss fight (in Zestiria) is so awesome.
You'll love it!
Rising up!

ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! I need to save the world from the top of the tallest mountain!!!!!!!!!!! I need this soundtrack for gym purposes.

 

[bede-x]

Ah I see. I thought everyone received all of the content with each Deus tier. I didn't realize it was pick among a couple offerings.

Yeah, I think that was what made people a little annoyed. If they had said that if enough people pre-ordered, you'd get Human Revolution for free, I doubt anyone would complain.

 

[Kasumin]

You're not really encouraging anything here. The developers had to make the game 30 FPS because of hardware limitations of the PS3 and probably shitty development choices. They also basically built the entire game around 30 FPS (Thinking they wouldn't have to port it anywhere else..for some reason), so just making it 60 FPS will ruin the game's flow and balance. That's according to them, we'll see when someone unlocks it to 60 FPS.

90% of Tales games are 60 FPS in battle. The next Tales game on PS4 is 60 FPS. Zestiria is an exception and not a goal they ever want to hit. Whether or not this game is a the greatest selling Tales game ever...will not influence whether or not they made more 30 FPS games.

Therefore anyone who doesn't want to get the game because of 30 FPS, you can still get the game when someone unlocks it to 60 FPS. Like I said, you're not telling the developers that you want 30 FPS when you buy the game. I'm pretty sure 60 FPS is always their target goal.

I scanned the entire topic and didn't see anyone address this, sorry if I am answering something that was already said.

Thanks for the bit of context. And I agree. The reactions to 30 fps are bizarre to me, but anyway...

Though I have a feeling that Zestiria being locked to 30 fps is due to their attempt at "seamless" battles. IMO, the sacrifice wasn't worth it anyway. The battle camera clearly wasn't up to the task. And Tales of Graces had battle transitions take maybe 1.5 seconds at most. To me that was seamless. When battles take place in a separate area, then you can get some great spell effects. Graces had some beautiful looking spells. Look at games like FFXII and Xenoblade in comparison. Seamless battles seem to require a sacrifice in terms of certain battle effects. I don't mind it in FFXII or Xenoblade, but one thing I've loved Tales games for is the amazing spell effects.

So we get a cut frame rate and toned down spell effects for... what? Seamless battles in a series where battles always end with some kind of results screen that sometimes have characters doing silly things? Not worth it at all, IMO. Just get the battle transitions to be as fast as they were in Graces and we're fine, IMO. Because even with seamless battles, the Results screen is a disruption and defeats the entire point. Tales really does not need seamless battles.

 

[Stuart444]

Though I have a feeling that Zestiria being locked to 30 fps is due to their attempt at "seamless" battles.

You are not wrong there. I think the map traversal was set to be 30fps to make it easier for the PS3 with the open world and stuff but because there is no transition screen, they couldn't up it to 60fps (it'd be very bizarre without a transition screen).

At least that is how I see it.

 

[K.Sabot]

Holy shit I just realized that Go Shiina did the ost for this, thanks thread.

Even more hype about my preorder.

 

[Strife In a Teacup]

Oh yeah! Nice to see Tales of Symphonia already in my steam library.

 

[ryushe]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but if i pre-order this from GMG, can I cash in on the ToS reward?

 

[Jawmuncher]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but if i pre-order this from GMG, can I cash in on the ToS reward?

NO

All of the good rewards are steam only.

 

[-MD-]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but if i pre-order this from GMG, can I cash in on the ToS reward?

From the Zestiria store page

"Only purchases of Tales of Zestiria on Steam count towards the Pre-Purchase Rewards."

 

[Flandy]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but if i pre-order this from GMG, can I cash in on the ToS reward?

No you can't

 

[ryushe]

Booourns! PS4 copy it is.

Thanks guys.

 

[Dusk Golem]

For 100% confirmation about the no Steam pre-order rewards thing, from GMG's website: https://greenmangaming.zendesk.com/entries/96435797-Tales-of-Zestiria-Pre-purchase-FAQ

"Tales of Zestiria Pre-purchase FAQ

Are you offering the tiered pre-purchase bonuses that are available on Steam?
No, this is a Steam exclusive.

Will you be providing any pre-purchase bonuses for this title?
Unfortunately we have no pre-purchase bonuses as reflected on our product page."

 

[Hylian7]

I'm glad I didn't preorder this. 30FPS on Zestria and even 30FPS on Symphonia? Both of these are things we shouldn't accept or put up with. 30FPS Symphonia is even more a joke since the Gamecube version was 60FPS. I don't understand why they half-assed this shit.

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

I'm glad I didn't preorder this. 30FPS on Zestria and even 30FPS on Symphonia? Both of these are things we shouldn't accept or put up with. 30FPS Symphonia is even more a joke since the Gamecube version was 60FPS. I don't understand why they half-assed this shit.

Because the HD versions are based on the half-assed PS2 version. Which somehow fucked up in rejiggering the game for 30fps. (In that it's seemingly hard to undo it)

 

[MUnited83]

I'm glad I didn't preorder this. 30FPS on Zestria and even 30FPS on Symphonia? Both of these are things we shouldn't accept or put up with. 30FPS Symphonia is even more a joke since the Gamecube version was 60FPS. I don't understand why they half-assed this shit.

Nobody actually knows Symphonia's framerate, there's nothing but speculation about it.
It seems you also don't actually know why Zestiria is 30fps. Here's a thing: it's not because they half-assed it. That isn't how it works.

 

[Hylian7]

Because the HD versions are based on the half-assed PS2 version. Which somehow fucked up in rejiggering the game for 30fps. (In that it's seemingly hard to undo it)

So the half-assery goes even deeper. No thanks, even more glad I didn't support that kind of garbage.

I really wish developers would stop making games with stuff based on framerate. Two huge examples of this I remember are Valkyria Chronicles PC, which was otherwise a great port, but had some issues if you running above 30FPS with the tank being unable to go up hills. It's entirely possible they may have patched this by now. There is a chapter early on in VC where the tank starts right in front of a ramp, and you're basically screwed. I managed to beat it without bringing the tank further.

Dark Souls 1 on PC also had this problem, and I know it was locked to 30 FPS, but I'm guessing the reason for this was because stuff was calculated on framerate. I used Durante's DSFix to unlock the framerate and I remember sometimes getting stuck on weird bits of the ground.

Nobody actually knows Symphonia's framerate, there's nothing but speculation about it.
It seems you also don't actually know why Zestiria is 30fps. Here's a thing: it's not because they half-assed it. That isn't how it works.

Is it some reason other than animations/collision detection being based on the framerate somehow? That would be my best guess. Unless there is some other absolutely riveting reason why it's 30FPS, then yes, it is totally half-assed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

 

[impact]

It sucks wanting to support Japanese RPGs on Steam but not wanting to support 30fps locks on Steam

Thanks for the offer Namco, but I'll have to pass.

 

[MUnited83]

So the half-assery goes even deeper. No thanks, even more glad I didn't support that kind of garbage.

I really wish developers would stop making games with stuff based on framerate. Two huge examples of this I remember are Valkyria Chronicles PC, which was otherwise a great port, but had some issues if you running above 30FPS with the tank being unable to go up hills. It's entirely possible they may have patched this by now. There is a chapter early on in VC where the tank starts right in front of a ramp, and you're basically screwed. I managed to beat it without bringing the tank further.

Dark Souls 1 on PC also had this problem, and I know it was locked to 30 FPS, but I'm guessing the reason for this was because stuff was calculated on framerate. I used Durante's DSFix to unlock the framerate and I remember sometimes getting stuck on weird bits of the ground.



Is it some reason other than animations/collision detection being based on the framerate somehow? That would be my best guess. Unless there is some other absolutely riveting reason why it's 30FPS, then yes, it is totally half-assed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

If half-assed means "we don't have a magically high budget to retool the game completely, a game that was made by a different team and that would never be thought to be ported to other platforms", then yeah, I guess it's "half-assed". Unlocking the framerate breaks animation, balance, difficulty and fighting mechanics. If you want to complain about it, complain about the initial development and release of the game, not the port. This port doesn't seem to be half-assed by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Hylian7]

If half-assed means "we don't have a magically high budget to retool the game completely, a game that was made by a different team and that would never be thought to be ported to other platforms", then yeah, I guess it's "half-assed". Unlocking the framerate breaks animation, balance, difficulty and fighting mechanics. If you want to complain about it, complain about the initial development and release of the game, not the port. This port doesn't seem to be half-assed by any stretch of the imagination.

Fine, then the game is half-assed in it's initial development. Are you happy now? They should actually put some effort into the technical aspect of the game, especially when it was going to be coming out on PC.

 

[MUnited83]

Fine, then the game is half-assed in it's initial development. Are you happy now? They should actually put some effort into the technical aspect of the game, especially when it was going to be coming out on PC.

Yes, much better. Calling a portjob "half-assed" because it's hindered by design decisions by other team made several years ago it's very unfair.


Also, the game was in development for a few years, in which obviously a PS4/PC versions were not really on the table. It was a PS3 only game for a large portion of development.

 

[texhnolyze]

Fine, then the game is half-assed in it's initial development. Are you happy now? They should actually put some effort into the technical aspect of the game, especially when it was going to be coming out on PC.

It was initially a PS3 game.
PS4 and PC just announced way later.

 

[10k]

Awwwwww yeah! We made it son!

 

[Momentary]

Is it some reason other than animations/collision detection being based on the framerate somehow? That would be my best guess. Unless there is some other absolutely riveting reason why it's 30FPS, then yes, it is totally half-assed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

I don't see how this is half-assed when you get more graphical fidelity and higher resolution options than the PS4 port. The porting team is a porting team. They probably don't have the man power to try and redo animations tied to game logic to be able to run it at 60fps. You think the development team is porting this to PC? It's probably QLOC since it's Bandai Namco's go to guys. They don't do half-assed ports.

Plus, you might be able to unlock it and see whether or not you can play the game stably at 60fps. But it's either going to run at twice the speed or you're going to have some janky animation problems throughout the game.

I agree with you that companies tying frame rate to game logic makes absolutely no sense outside of very special cases like Southpark which does it to emulate the T.V. show. Even if the platform they develop it on cant stably run it, they still shouldn't do it just in case they decide to release it on more capable hardware.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Rayge is correct, it's QLOC. and QLOC is a high quality PC developer / port house. They developed DBZ Xenoverse to be 60fps when creating that version of the game, while the consoles (base development team) had to settle for 30fps. However this game is a PS3-focused developed title from the outset, so....

There's two possible options:
1) it's not possible to go through the entire game and fix and re-time all the animations (especially if damage dealt or received is also based on this). There's just simply too much work to get the game out in a reasonable timeframe on one feature.
2) Bandai Namco didn't want to pay QLOC the overhead and post-dev costs to go through and fix the game to be 60fps, even though it's definitely possible to do within the timeframe.

I'm going to go with option 2 on my flip-coin-o-meter.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

So this is two ARPG games by a well-regarded port team for $50?

How's the story?

 

[Kasumin]

Holy shit I just realized that Go Shiina did the ost for this, thanks thread.

Even more hype about my preorder.

Go Shiina didn't do the entire OST. He did 14 tracks out of 109 as shown here on VGMdb. All of his tracks are on disc 3 of the soundtrack.

I know Sakuraba is meh on Tales, but knowing what he's capable of when he isn't limited, I'm always a bit baffled by the Go Shiina hype. Sakuraba himself said in an interview that he has limits set on what he can do when he composes for Tales games. Not to say Go Shiina's not good, but I don't think he's the be all end all.

Also, the game was in development for a few years, in which obviously a PS4/PC versions were not really on the table. It was a PS3 only game for a large portion of development.

The fact that it was in development for at least two years is part of my disappointment in this game. We can make excuses for Xillia 1 and 2 regarding games being rushed and short development time, but what's Zestiria's excuse? That it was made only with the PS3 in mind? If so, that's pretty shortsighted on the dev team/management/Namco's part. Even Atlus is developing Persona 5 for both. And despite the long past console generation, signs were pointing to a new generation being on the horizon. At the very least they could have not locked game logic to the frame rate as that would have given more options for a PC port at least.

It's obvious that Tales games have less of a budget, but looking at Bandai Namco's other games that's clearly a choice on their part. They've chosen to invest less in the series. Dissolving the Tales Studio is one sign of that. Hideo Baba also mentioned having much less staff for Zestiria. I'm just annoyed that the series' potential is continually wasted because Bandai Namco doesn't seem to see it as being worth investing. Then they half-ass things and get negative fan response like in Japan. I saw what Xillia was going for, and it pissed me off when I heard the game was rushed because man did I love that world's design and lore.

 

[thesaucetastic]

I know Sakuraba is meh on Tales, but knowing what he's capable of when he isn't limited, I'm always a bit baffled by the Go Shiina hype. Sakuraba himself said in an interview that he has limits set on what he can do when he composes for Tales games. Not to say Go Shiina's not good, but I don't think he's the be all end all.

I find the way Bamco limit Sakuraba on Tales games is baffling. He created my favorite soundtrack of all time with Baten Kaitos (and holy shit, did his 8 year old daughter have a set of lungs, and singing in Italian to boot.) I just like Go Shiina's work as well (Tales of Legendia has my second favorite soundtrack, even!) I feel like they give him a lot more flexibility for whatever reason.

 

[tauke]

I'm still unclear if buying it as a gift means the receiver will get the PO reward too?

Hope someone can answer this for me.

 

[texhnolyze]

I'm still unclear if buying it as a gift means the receiver will get the PO reward too?

Hope someone can answer this for me.

Yes, I can confirm this.
I bought the game via gift and I got Symphonia on my library now.

 

[tauke]

Yes, I can confirm this.
I bought the game via gift and I got Symphonia on my library now.

Thanks! Now I can ask a friend of mine to buy it for me and I'll pay her through Paypal since my bank blocked all debit card purchases on Steam.

 

[SephLuis]

Fine, then the game is half-assed in it's initial development. Are you happy now? They should actually put some effort into the technical aspect of the game, especially when it was going to be coming out on PC.

The game was initially PS3-only. You should be thankful Namco Bandai is even creating new versions for PS4 and PC so that you can play it. Those version did not exist even in Japan, which is the series main market.

Also, 30 fps =/= half-assed development. Considering what they were trying to achieve, it was far too much for what the PS3 was capable of. Thus the game was capped at 30 fps and it still suffered from some heavy drops. To achieve 60 fps, they would have to sacrifice a lot of things, to the point this would be a completely different game (better or worse, it still up to debate).

Be happy that you are even receiving the game in your platform of choice. Namco could localize only the PS3 version and call it a day. They are already going further porting this to two platforms.

It's better to play at 30 fps than not playing or at 60 fps and broken.

 

[Erekiddo]

I was planning on getting this on PS4 as I prefer RPGs on consoles whenever possible, but this version is $10 cheaper and comes with a free game.

Ugh.

Is Symphonia available to play now? Or does it unlock in 2016.

 

[chaosblade]

I was planning on getting this on PS4 as I prefer RPGs on consoles whenever possible, but this version is $10 cheaper and comes with a free game.

Ugh.

Is Symphonia available to play now? Or does it unlock in 2016.

It will unlock when it releases next year.

 

[t26]

The fact that it was in development for at least two years is part of my disappointment in this game. We can make excuses for Xillia 1 and 2 regarding games being rushed and short development time, but what's Zestiria's excuse? That it was made only with the PS3 in mind? If so, that's pretty shortsighted on the dev team/management/Namco's part. Even Atlus is developing Persona 5 for both. And despite the long past console generation, signs were pointing to a new generation being on the horizon. At the very least they could have not locked game logic to the frame rate as that would have given more options for a PC port at least.

Do you rally want to use Altus as an example when persona 5 got delays until summer 16?

 

[Basileus777]

Do you rally want to use Altus as an example when persona 5 got delays until summer 16?

The Atlus who managed to put out one console game last generation. The Atlus who doesn't put anything on the PC, frame rate locked or not.

 

[Aeana]

The Atlus who managed to put out one console game last generation. The Atlus who doesn't put anything on the PC, frame rate locked or not.

It's people like you who are the reason why the Trauma series is dead. THANKS A LOT JERK.

 

[Basileus777]

It's people like you who are the reason why the Trauma series is dead. THANKS A LOT JERK.

I knew I missed something.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

It's people like you who are the reason why the Trauma series is dead. THANKS A LOT JERK.

Don't remind me. D:
But then again, I really loved the Trauma games on the Wii.

Anyway, I'm probably going to bite the bullet even though it's 30fps since I know I'll enjoy it anyway... I have no self control, especially since it comes with Symphonia.

 

[Durante]

Also, 30 fps =/= half-assed development.

On console, sure. But crippling your code base to the extent that you cannot change or unlock the framerate when porting to PC or other new platforms? That's half-assed engineering, absolutely.

The Atlus who managed to put out one console game last generation. The Atlus who doesn't put anything on the PC, frame rate locked or not.

Yeah, Atlus is hardly a good example.

On the other hand IF put out an uncountable number of JRPGs on consoles, and when IFI made PC ports of those they went from 30 FPS (with sometimes heavy drops) to rock solid 60 FPS.

 

[Momentary]

On console, sure. But crippling your code base to the extent that you cannot change or unlock the framerate when porting to PC or other new platforms? That's half-assed engineering, absolutely.

I wonder how that even gets agreed upon in a pre-development meeting. Even if for the forsee able future you don't see your project making its way to more capable hardware, why tie it down like that?

 

[Thoraxes]

So hyped for this.

Picking up a Steam card tomorrow!

 

[GhostTrick]

It's people like you who are the reason why the Trauma series is dead. THANKS A LOT JERK.

Sheeesh. I wish Trauma Center would get a second chance on Wii U/3DS or PC.:/

 

[Shinjica]

If half-assed means "we don't have a magically high budget to retool the game completely, a game that was made by a different team and that would never be thought to be ported to other platforms", then yeah, I guess it's "half-assed". Unlocking the framerate breaks animation, balance, difficulty and fighting mechanics. If you want to complain about it, complain about the initial development and release of the game, not the port. This port doesn't seem to be half-assed by any stretch of the imagination.

Synphonia was 60 on the gamecube, so no, it does not break anything.

The game was initially PS3-only. You should be thankful Namco Bandai is even creating new versions for PS4 and PC so that you can play it. Those version did not exist even in Japan, which is the series main market.
.

created? they didnt do that because they are some king of angels, they are doing that because they see a potential revenue in that. Stop thinking that they are doing us a favor, they are company who want money, not some charity istitution