Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Oh? Google told me it was “fuck with me”. Seriously.
I thought that was weird because who says “fuck with me”?
They could have come up with a more believable subterfuge.
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Streamer mistreats his wife and his son while streaming live.
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
I thought that was weird because who says “fuck with me”?
They could have come up with a more believable subterfuge.
EDIT:
nkarafo
Member
Be careful though, you dont want to hold her too tight because her wrists might get bruised and you end up accused for abuse anyway. I have seen this happen in my own circle.
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TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
I think this is very important. Not only a lesson to women, but everyone.
People aren't bound to respond properly to everything, so watch out what you do.
There's no denying that he reacted completely wrong in pretty much every way imaginable (and got what he deserved).
BUT... this woman is (probably soon was) married to him, they have kids (at that age, too....).
She knows him. He is VERY clearly enraged the entirety of the video, getting angrier and angrier by the minute. When the videos start, you can see that this is a man close to his breaking point.
But the woman just goes on and on and on and makes things continually worse. It should have been clear to her where this would lead.
I'm not defending his actions at all, but people do not behave like that out of nowhere. The woman must have known his temper and violent tendencies.
Yet she did what she did instead of stepping away as he asks her to (clearly he knew he was close to the breaking point himself).
There is no denying she had a part in this, too.
Yeah, what he did was worse, but there isn't a person in that scene (except the kid) who did not come across as a failure of a human being.
What a terrible relationship. Poor kid. Really makes you consider the benefits of restricting who is allowed to raise children...
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Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
She’s long gone. I kicked that bitch to the curb. Metaphorically of course.
Papa
Banned
Lol I just made it up
And I never said that there are men waiting to beat everyone up around every corner. But I am opposed to the notion that anyone should have to temper their words and actions for fear that a man is going to clock them in the face. It's boyish behavior.
In fact, my experience in everyday adult life has been the exact opposite. People are more likely to remove themselves from a situation and let the appropriate authorities intervene. When faced with a situation that isn't physically threatening to you or anyone else present, not getting physical is exactly what I've come to expect from well adjusted adults. And the Ubahn in Berlin provides plenty such incidents, almost weekly sometimes.
You curb your behavior to match the laws of your country. It's not up to random men to enforce (their notion of) law and order with their fists. Quite often when they do, they'll end in jail like Mrdeadmoth here.
See, this here's my problem. The implication that if she WAS mouthing off, it would be okay to hit her. And the fact that you seem to think it's okay to tell Feminists that if they want to share a society with men, they need to accept that men are inherently violent and will b
beat them if they get a little too rowdy. You do this instead of reviling the notion of men enforcing their own brand of justice with their fists.
This is something that I absolutely cannot get behind. Nobody, man of woman, should fear speaking their mind because of an implicit threat of violence from men. And it is not my experience that modern societies operate this way. As long as their behavior is within the confines of the law, anything goes.
TeamGhobad
Banned
Victim blaming? So the woman is the culprit then? Cause all i saw was a grown ass man trying to play a videogame and then getting harassed by a woman.
Papa
Banned
You need to spend less time strawmanning and more time steelmanning because right now you’re looking like a fool whose over-egged pudding exploded in his face.
You have not addressed any point that I made.
So you insult me and don't bother addressing anything I say? Classy.
I've been addressing your points as your posts bring them across, starting from the fact that you think it's socially acceptable for men to hit other people at all. If you feel I'm strawmanning, maybe you should reread your posts and see what is they appear to be implying, because I don't think your posts are saying what you seem to think they're saying.
And consider dialling back the insults. My tolerance for your insults is not at an all time high after you tried to muddy the waters and drag your buddy into the discussion based on something that happened in a completely unrelated thread. I have no interest in a mud slinging match. Play the ball, not the man.
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Only he is not in jail. And going by our laws here, probably wont be.
The little bit I saw/heard of it was horrifying but most guys would know that it would lead to some type of physical confrontation if they acted that way with another guy.
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Papa
Banned
Evidently not if you believe that I am advocating for violence.
I don’t respond positively to people who play the victim in place of rhetoric, so go ahead and place me on that ignore list as you already threatened to do.
Did you or did you not say you oppose equality because it means women would have to accept that men can beat them, just like they allegedly beat other men to enforce their will on them? You might want not be advocating for violence, but you're not advocating against it either. You're behaving as if it's an acceptable status quo, instead of finding it a problem in opposition to many first world democratic ideals.
Claiming that I'm playing the victim is just the cherry on the cake. Coming from the person who rushed to drag unrelated arguments with someone else into the discussion, even tagging him so he could get in on it.
Nah buddy. If you're going to engage in bad faith, at least own it. Don't play holier-than-thou. You're right. I will place you on my ignore list. Have a great day further.
Papa
Banned
Did you or did you not say you oppose equality because it means women would have to accept that men can beat them, just like they allegedly beat other men to enforce their will on them? You might want not be advocating for violence, but you're not advocating against it either. You're behaving as if it's an acceptable status quo, instead of finding it a problem in opposition to many first world democratic ideals.
Claiming that I'm playing the victim is just the cherry on the cake. Coming from the person who rushed to drag unrelated arguments with someone else into the discussion, even tagging him so he could get in on it.
Nah buddy. If you're going to engage in bad faith, at least own it. Don't play holier-than-thou. You're right. I will place you on my ignore list. Have a great day further.
Nope, didn’t say any of that. Seems that it’s you who needs to go back and read.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Enough with this “first-world”, “third world” bullshit. Stop being so self-righteous.Did you or did you not say you oppose equality because it means women would have to accept that men can beat them, just like they allegedly beat other men to enforce their will on them? You might want not be advocating for violence, but you're not advocating against it either. You're behaving as if it's an acceptable status quo, instead of finding it a problem in opposition to many first world democratic ideals.
Claiming that I'm playing the victim is just the cherry on the cake. Coming from the person who rushed to drag unrelated arguments with someone else into the discussion, even tagging him so he could get in on it.
Nah buddy. If you're going to engage in bad faith, at least own it. Don't play holier-than-thou. You're right. I will place you on my ignore list. Have a great day further.
Domestic violence exists everywhere. Yes, even in YOUR country. As does physical violence in general, feminine or masculine. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.
Of course it does. I never said it doesn't exist, so deconstruct that strawman.
But it's not the order of the day and it's not something we should factor into the equation when we're discussing something like equality.
Contrary to what's being said here, men are not at any given time one wrong statement away from being punched in the face by other men.
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cormack12
Gold Member
Not that I have a horse in this race as the people in the OP are both disgusting, I'm not sure you're distinguishing what you mean very well here. There are lots of times when you have to appraise the situation and not make a remark as a man. And there are lots of documented news items where innocuous nights out have turned into really sad events. There are times where men just walking home drunk have been attacked, unprovoked as well - by groups of juveniles/youths or adult males.
When you're out in a small crowd of say three, and there's a massive stag do going on with fella's acting like proper nobheads who might bump in and spill a drink on you. You have a choice to say 'Watch what you're doing', and then risk you and your mates being set up on by 18-20 younger, alcohol fuelled lads. Driving down the road and a guy cuts you up, are you more likely to wind your window down and yell if he looks like a drug dealing meathead? Are you more likely to just let it go if it's an elderly woman? I've been to Hamburg and I've seen men fighting on the Reeperbhan for an innocuous comment in passing about a cigarette.
I'm not saying the threat of a punch lies round every corner/comment but,
This is also not an accurate or fair definitive statement.
Daniel Pacheco
Member
Is this real?
Rei dos Vermes
Member
Outrageous! Men should never hit women, unless it's a life-and-death case of self-defense.
Papa
Banned
Since that cuntwaffle
Z
Zewp
tried really hard to misrepresent my arguments and pretend that I was advocating for violence so that he could stroke his own virtuous ego, allow me to clarify.
My point is that there are different social expectations for men and women, often subconscious, due to our evolutionary history. Due to being the physically weaker sex, women receive more leeway in social interactions as they generally do not have to worry about the physical threats that men do. We have created complex systems of law and order to control and deter the natural physical impulses of men (and women, but men are quite obviously the more physical sex). However, because those animalistic base urges do still exist in the older parts of our brains, men often ignore (or forget) the law and resort to violence, especially when inebriated. This is supported by the correlation between low IQ and propensity for violent crime in men.
Pointing this out does not mean that I am advocating for it to be the status quo; rather, I am pointing to our evolutionary history as being a key part of why there are different social standards for men and women. In this context, I do not support so-called “equality”, because men and women are physically not the same, and the resulting inequality actually favours women in that it shields them from the threat of violence that is often present in male interactions. It is foolish to pretend that we can eliminate all violent tendencies from men as they have evolved over millions of years. The best we can do is control and deter them with law and order. Anyone familiar with my posting knows that I’m a fan of law and order as any reasonable person would be, but appealing to the authority of something without understanding the why of it makes you ideologically motivated.
My point is that there are different social expectations for men and women, often subconscious, due to our evolutionary history. Due to being the physically weaker sex, women receive more leeway in social interactions as they generally do not have to worry about the physical threats that men do. We have created complex systems of law and order to control and deter the natural physical impulses of men (and women, but men are quite obviously the more physical sex). However, because those animalistic base urges do still exist in the older parts of our brains, men often ignore (or forget) the law and resort to violence, especially when inebriated. This is supported by the correlation between low IQ and propensity for violent crime in men.
Pointing this out does not mean that I am advocating for it to be the status quo; rather, I am pointing to our evolutionary history as being a key part of why there are different social standards for men and women. In this context, I do not support so-called “equality”, because men and women are physically not the same, and the resulting inequality actually favours women in that it shields them from the threat of violence that is often present in male interactions. It is foolish to pretend that we can eliminate all violent tendencies from men as they have evolved over millions of years. The best we can do is control and deter them with law and order. Anyone familiar with my posting knows that I’m a fan of law and order as any reasonable person would be, but appealing to the authority of something without understanding the why of it makes you ideologically motivated.
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
If anything women are unprotected in society hence the high statistics of rape, abuse, and so on, whether by strangers or in a domestic environment, even in so called well developed nations with laws that should deter from that but societies that do not. I don't see how they're more protected than men by anything, interactions between men are still regulated by societal norms and law generally, maybe in a school environment you see more boys fighting but in adult life you're generally expected to not behave that way anywhere whether with women or among each other, whether in the work place or out.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Lots of victim blaming here. It's wrong, but she should not push him to his breaking point, she should know better since she's married to him, basically she should know her place is to let him be and do her duties? A lot like rapists are wrong, but women that got raped should know not to act like free people wearing what they want and going where they please and whatever else, huh? As if you know their prior life and if that wasn't her own breaking point, a stupid Fortnite session over god knows how much already lost time avoiding his family and responsibilities that come with one instead of partaking in it or whatever? You don't know but you can easily assume this is just her pushing him to his breaking point and getting whooped for it which is sad but expected out of the blue when previously everything was fine!
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1.21Gigawatts
Banned
The "Why don’t you listen?” is actually the most telling part of this if you ask me.
It shows that the guy isn't even considering her position, thinks he is right, she is wrong, and he is the victim of her "interruptions", which then in turn justifies his violent reaction towards her.
Its typically something you see in very small children when there is something they're not allowed to do or something is taken away from them. Before they've been properly socialized this often results in "hissy fits". But since he is an adult his "hissy fit" is a lot more violent than the one of a toddler.
I don't know if thats already sociopathy or just really, really bad upbringing, in any case, I don't think it can be fixed without therapy.
But looking at the reactions of people it also becomes clear that many share his perspective, trying to justify his reaction by pointing out that she bothered him and he told her to leave him be.
Loads of broken man babies out there.
It shows that the guy isn't even considering her position, thinks he is right, she is wrong, and he is the victim of her "interruptions", which then in turn justifies his violent reaction towards her.
Its typically something you see in very small children when there is something they're not allowed to do or something is taken away from them. Before they've been properly socialized this often results in "hissy fits". But since he is an adult his "hissy fit" is a lot more violent than the one of a toddler.
I don't know if thats already sociopathy or just really, really bad upbringing, in any case, I don't think it can be fixed without therapy.
But looking at the reactions of people it also becomes clear that many share his perspective, trying to justify his reaction by pointing out that she bothered him and he told her to leave him be.
Loads of broken man babies out there.
Nah, we are ALL unprotected in society. Murder, assault, rape, abuse, theft, fraud. You name it, it happens to millions of us.
Given the natural human capacity for empathy most of us are not even "kept in check" by laws. We just don't do bad things because we are self aware and empathetic enough to understand that hurting others is not good for them or us and we don't want that.
Then you've got the uncontrollable element. People who don't care or just don't even think. People who don't even consider the consequences of their actions. We can't really do anything about them except for to be on the lookout.
You've made a mistake in assuming that it's only women who are vulnerable. We are all vulnerable. Even the strongest of strong men can become victims of anything.
The only difference is that men have a higher possibility of being able to protect themselves, in general.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I did not say that I was responding to a post right above talking about how women are protected so women was my subject.
And it's dumb to see anyway in a post about a woman getting physically abused, there's no room for "but some men get abused too" just as an incident where a man was abused should be confronted head on and not with a flood of "but women get abused too, talk about that instead" derailing the whole thing as if you care about one thing you can't also care, where applicable and appropriate, about another.
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Yep.
According to the news articles he was (fired now) working a regular job and streaming 8 hours a day. They have two young kids and she is pregnant with their third. Assuming the guy also goes to sleep at some point that doesn’t really leave him any time to spend with his family. She made him dinner and it had been sitting there while he was playing more Fortnite matches. It sounds like she may have hit her breaking point. I don’t find that unreasonable. He is ignoring his families responsibilities to play a game and sounds like he has for a long time.
My Mom was a stay at home Mom. My Dad often had to work two jobs and we didn’t have much extra money. My Dad never once missed dinner with the family. He spent a lot of his free time with us. I can’t imagine him ever acting like this guy and needing to play Fortnite all day instead. I’m sure there were plenty of times when we ignored my Dad, but he never once called any of us cunts.
My Mom was a stay at home Mom. My Dad often had to work two jobs and we didn’t have much extra money. My Dad never once missed dinner with the family. He spent a lot of his free time with us. I can’t imagine him ever acting like this guy and needing to play Fortnite all day instead. I’m sure there were plenty of times when we ignored my Dad, but he never once called any of us cunts.
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It's a discussion though. What do you want people to do? Just read your post and say "yup I agree" and that's it? Too boring.
I don't know these people involved in this incident and, if I wanted to, why shouldn't I explore potential nuance in the discussion.
This guy is obviously an abusive asshole. So bad, in fact, that he was fine with assaulting his wife while streaming on the internet. I don't see any "wiggle room" for the guy. What he did was unacceptable.
Buuuuuut... I can see where there is room for discussion to some degree. Why does it need to be framed as "victim blaming"?
This guy is obviously unhinged. Why is she with him? Why didn't she leave? Is she really provoking him?
They are not invalid questions. Maybe her life, and her kid's life, would be better if she had asked herself these questions?
For me the argument of "victim blaming" is counter productive.
You will NEVER be able to stop people from being terrible shitty abusive people.
Never. It's just how people like this guy behave. It's shocking to see, I know, but this guy in the video? There are millions of them out there.
So maybe, just maybe, it's a good idea to advise people on how this kind of stuff can be best avoided?
One of the things we never want to do is to shame or silence victims but also you never want to find yourself in a society that isn't able to discuss how people can avoid being victimized.
Sure, we could try to condition people so that nobody turns out like this guy but literally thousands of years of laws and cautionary tales and morality based stories and religious teachings and the like have failed to achieve this. We keep trying but what do we do in the meantime?
Noboru Wataya
Banned
FTFY
Abuse isn't a gendered issue. So there should be no need to bring gender into it at all.
It doesn't matter though as you need to give people the freedom to talk about it.
Who cares if the thread is derailed? Derailed from what? Everyone knows this guy is a massive scumbag so we should just have 13 pages of "yep"?
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I mean, we're closer to 13 pages of nope, she brought it on herself and you're a SJW if you talk about women's abuse cos we should always also talk about men, than the opposite.
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Yeah, this dude is an absolute disgrace. Shit, my parents had their full blown arguments from time to time (no physical abuse) but they never feckin streamed it online for all the world to see.
Can't believe they have 2 kids and a 3rd on the way. Genuinely feel sorry for those children.
It just looks like an utterly toxic and probably dangerous relationship. Hopefully they can get away from each other and the kids will not be too f-ed up by it.
TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
Everyone looking at that video can tell that this is not a relationship in which "everything was fine". Relationships in which everything is fine do not escalate like that.
It is very much possible that was also her breaking point with her throwing the camera around, etc.
If you actually took the time to read what people wrote instead of just assuming nonsese, you would see that almost nobody shares his perspective.
However, if you stopped with the ideology for a moment and just looked at the clearly visible facts, you would also see that this woman has a blame in this as well. Who gets how much blame is a different question, but I see no innocents here (except the kid). Then again, that "father" seems more like a kid to me as well...
This accusation of victim blaming seems off to me. As if the person that got hit was entirely innocent and had nothing to do with what happened to her.
Let's stop with that ideology nonsense here and just be real for a moment.
There is no excuse for violence if not in self-defence, no excuse for rape.
But then there is also this nasty thing called reality.
Let's have some examples:
If you walk around in a no-go area with fancy clothes and get robbed, are you entirely unininvolved in what happened to you? You walked into a dangerous situation and had an event happen to you that was likely to happen. You were stupid. You could have avoided the problem.
If you make a holiday trip to one of the unstable countries around the world and get kidnapped, did you play no part in your fate? You decided it would be a great idea to endanger your life like that. You were stupid. You could have avoided the problem.
If you are a woman, barely wearing anything and walk right into a group of guys in a culture and country that is known for how bad they treat women, what exactly did you expect to happen? You decided to put yourself in an extremely dangerous situation. You were stupid. You could have avoided the problem.
Nothing lowers the guilt of the aggressors in any case, ever.
But to try and pretend as if all victims had nothing to do with their situation is just factually wrong. That isn't victim blaming, and it is harsh, but that is often the nature of truth.
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Reckheim
Member
yeh, its one thing to want open discussion, its another thing to try and justify domestic abuse.
Papa
Banned
yep
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Dude, seriously fuck off with this disingenuous bullshit.
The majority of people in this thread have not been saying that. Not even close.
Come to the party with intelligence and reason or take your crap somewhere else.
I mean, that's not how I see it. I think you MAY just be misrepresenting the views expressed in the thread.
This is your take on what people are saying here "nope, she brought it on herself and you're a SJW if you talk about women's abuse cos we should always also talk about men".
You sincerely feel like you are being honest with that representation?
Sure, I completely agree with you. My objection isn't that these things don't happen. My objection is that it's normal and should be factored into the discussion when we're discussing things like, in this case, equality for women.
This is very much deviant behavior and not the norm. The idea being put forward here is that if women wanted total equality, they need to also accept that they're then fair targets for male aggression, because males are inherently aggressive. I don't believe violence goes part and parcel with being male. I rather believe it's a societal issue. Hence why in Berlin, as an example, you're more likely to hear about drug addicts stabbing each other in Kotbusser Tor than successful businessmen in doing the same in Alexanderplatz.
Thanks for engaging respectfully, btw. It's always nice when people can talk to each other online without being at each other's throats.
Papa
Banned
I am attempting to discuss and understand how something like this can occur, because to prevent such behaviours in future, you first have to understand why they exist.
You, on the other hand, want to wave your arms and shout about how virtuous you are by accusing me of victim blaming and advocating violence.
Only one of us understands what the other is saying, and it ain’t you.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
For a lot of them yes it's honest and also semi-honest for those who take more issue and respond to and pile on posts like mine but were just fine with posts like that.
Papa
Banned
Sure, I completely agree with you. My objection isn't that these things don't happen. My objection is that it's normal and should be factored into the discussion when we're discussing things like, in this case, equality for women.
This is very much deviant behavior and not the norm. The idea being put forward here is that if women wanted total equality, they need to also accept that they're then fair targets for male aggression, because males are inherently aggressive. I don't believe violence goes part and parcel with being male. I rather believe it's a societal issue. Hence why in Berlin, as an example, you're more likely to hear about drug addicts stabbing each other in Kotbusser Tor than successful businessmen in doing the same in Alexanderplatz.
Thanks for engaging respectfully, btw. It's always nice when people can talk to each other online without being at each other's throats.
Not at all what I said, but you badly want it to be so you can continue showing how virtuous you are.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Men who behave like that are usually the ones who end up as incels, because they're insufferable cunts, usually deeply insecure, sexist and entitled.
Then they further radicalize online where they even experience support for their situation and are encouraged to internalize that viewpoint that the problem doesn't lie with them, but rather everyone else around them.
Men abusing women isn't something new. Back in the day it was justified by gender roles(along the lines of: "women are hysteric, a good beating will calm them down"), but society changed and that doesn't fly anymore.
So its no wonder that socially regressive, far right online communities are the ones who keep defending, excusing and justifying male violence towards women. Its completely predictable actually. The very reason why the alt-right in the US is so interested in the gaming community is because they recognized that a community consisting of mainly young, male, impressionable people is the perfect breeding ground for their last century ideology.
We can have a debate about that, I just doubt that anyone would honestly represent the other side. The people among the alt right or Gamergate who actually know what they are doing never openly admit what they are doing. Thats kind of the point. I'd call it plausible deniability, but there is nothing plausible about it.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Amazing. Just what I was talking about...
BANGS
Banned
I'm not sure what you mean, I was just getting the point across that they're both pieces of trash for that whole display they put on in front of their kid. She was begging for an ass kicking and he was an asshole who couldn't just stabilize the situation...
Is this a joke? Did you even watch the video?
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Papa
Banned
Are you describing incels or feminists?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Incels fight for something they feel entitled to, but aren't.
Feminists fight for something they're actually entitled to. You having a problem with that says more about you than feminists.
Papa
Banned
What entitlement are feminists fighting for that they don’t currently have?
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Incels
Sexist
Entitled
Gender
Regressive
Far right
Violence
Alt-right
Young
Male
Gamergate
I think you missed a few checkboxes. Do better.
TLZ
Banned
Thanks for ruining this thread. You somehow took this story and made it about your feminist agenda.
Can a mod please close this thread. It's served its purpose and more, and now being taken in another direction.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
vidya ---------- games