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[mrklaw]

I don't mind it being 30fps but not achieving 1080p is kinda disappointing. Phil did say that the new 10% reserve would be put into the effects and other things so maybe they opted for that route rather than upping the resolution.

10% wouldn't get you anywhere near 1080p from 900p though, and it wouldn't solve the limited esram. Better to aim for a resolution best balanced for that (eg 900p) and use any extra power for effects or framerate stability

The game looks incredible. So vibrant. Wonder though, with the One struggling for 1080p a lot so early on, as the gen goes on will they push for more visual effects and continue to struggle or will they get their heads around the hardware better and resolution/frame rate etc will improve?

Both Ps4 and Xbox 1 will be under increasing pressure on graphics quality as PCs get even more powerful. So I expect more Ps4 games to potentially start being 900p, and xb1 possibly lower.

 

[Principate]

Let's look at the bright side: if this self-sustaining resolution (and framerate) "drama" persists over the next years, the console manufactures will not forget to focus adequately on performance with their next gaming system. As we learned, they do care about bad publicity (with resulting bad sales) and are willing to change accordingly.

This I don't get neither of the consoles are top of range, in comparison to the way Xb360 and PS3 was, that was for a reason as they didn't want to make mass losses selling these machines. So assuming they follow the ideology into the next generation, Wouldn't it just become a wild west duel of precisely how cheap they can go while being the same power range as the competitor in comparison to chasing the stars of the previous gens.

I don't really get why the resolution difference would inherently make them care more unless they plan to go near bleeding edge. Wouldn't it just encourage more corporate espionage.

 

[Sub_Level]

generational leap used to look like this

Insane that MGS and Chaos Theory were one generation apart. Even something more impressive from the PS1 like Omega Boost doesn't even approach Chaos Theory on XBOX. dat jump

 

[JaggedSac]

Even with the recent dev 10% GPU boost or was this before then?!

Phil addressed that they were using it for gameplay and not graphical purposes.

 

[BabyFaceKillah]

That's a shame.

Developers like Insomniac deserve to be on Playstation so they can fully bring their art to its highest potential. They made a mistake.

trying to shit on the Xbox again I see.

 

[Hubble]

The game's art style more than makes up for its resolution

 

[Miles Quaritch]

That thread also has people reacting to a person who posted negative impressions with ridiculous hostility, claiming he was a paid shill among other things.

Really, it should be concerning that Sony console warriors are taking a bigger interest in this game than XB1 owners are.

Where? I see no-one claiming he's a paid shill or being overly hostile or negative to his impressions.

 

[omonimo]

Not sure what this has to do with anything...


Yes, the difference in pixel number is greater, however the jump in visual fidelity is not.



Yeah, 720p is somewhat disappointing. I'm hoping devs can stick to 900p on the X1 from now on though as I find 900p to be perfectly fine.

If they manage to lock it at 30 then I think the game will play fine. I don't agree that 60fps is entirely necessary.

It's not for you. But reality it's another matter. 720p in a full hd tv are horribly upscaled with a blurry mess. Unfortunately.

 

[Gbraga]

In my opinion it isn't even about better graphics at 30, but the chaos the game's co-op will be.

Just imagine 8 dudes firing fucking nukes at the same time.

Either the framerate will go to shit then or it's actually running quite a bit better internally to make sure it stays stable when shit goes down.

900p is a shame, but we knew it wouldn't be 1080p for quite some time now. Honestly, I was expecting 720p.

Of course I'd rather have 60fps, but I'm not too mad considering the 8 player mayhem.

I'll never forgive them for Ratchet though.

 

[Moosichu]

The game looks great. It may be nice for it to have a higher res. But I would want games in 4k ideally . It looks very good to me and that is all that matters

 

[Ploid 3.0]

It could have been worse, good job hitting 900p/30fps I say. Insomniac are good developers even if people may think they aren't. They had pretty talented engineers from what I remember. They were pretty close to ND in ability, people even thought ND and Insomniac shared tech (I read that it was debunked). Ratchet open world stuff, and Jack and Daxter open world, good times.

About wanting it at 60fps, maybe the next xbox will be BC. Maybe it will be able to run xbox one games at higher resolutions, and higher framerates like Dolphin, and such but without having to emulate. Will a ESRAM-less Xbox Two have a problem running xbox one games, or emulating it?

 

[Yaoibot]

At this point in its life-cycle, the Xbox 360 was giving us games like Gears of War, which set the benchmark for high-end, consumer-friendly (priced/ convenience) graphics for years, until Uncharted came around. Yet today, revisionist history abounds, and its no longer about the "graphics" at all, but all about the gameplay. Well, there are thousands of great "gameplay" experiences on tablets, Steam, Live and PSN for a fraction of the cost of what a supposed "premium" video-game system is supposed to offer. We used to pay $500 and get hardware that competed with PCs for at least a few years. Only one of these new consoles is keeping the pace, and barely at that. Why has the narrative changed so dramatically? PR brainwashing? The market getting older (and therefor more concerned with families and less with the minutae of gaming)? Or younger (and they simply can't recall the previous gens)?

I'm genuinely curious as to why the goal-posts have moved so much. And would we be having any of these discussions, at all, if MS hadn't buggered up the design and wasted their engineering on Kinect and bad RAM configurations? I don't think that we would. If anything, the shoe would be reversed and the hate would be raining on Sony's machine; justifiably so.

 

[Zophar]

Where? I see no-one claiming he's a paid shill or being overly hostile or negative to his impressions.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116505011&postcount=263

The implication is there.

 

[Huggers]

Unfortunately, Xbone is the first console in history where the graphics will get worse over time. I know this because of a drive-by post by a Sony fanboy in a thread this one time.

They won't get worse obviously but will they drastically improve? Extra CPU allocation, Direct X etc..

 

[Bessy67]

Let's look at the bright side: if this self-sustaining resolution (and framerate) "drama" persists over the next years, the console manufactures will not forget to focus adequately on performance with their next gaming system. As we learned, they do care about bad publicity (with resulting bad sales) and are willing to change accordingly.

What do you think they're going to do though? They're not going to take massive losses on hardware sales and most people aren't going to spend $700 on a console.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Unfortunately, Xbone is the first console in history where the graphics will get worse over time. I know this because of a drive-by post by a Sony fanboy in a thread this one time.

It's not that graphics will get worse but rather attaining 1080p will be harder and harder to achieve with all the things going on in your game. Last generation it seemed like so many games didn't hit 720p as time went on.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

I wonder if it was locked 30 at E3, because whatever I played felt really shitty framerates. I think it definitely was dropping frames.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116505011&postcount=263

The implication is there.

Are you serious right now? You're reading far too much into a comment that actually holds some weight of truth. It's no secret that gaming journalists aren't very good at games...

 

[twobear]

The won't get worse obviously but will they drastically improve? Extract CPU allocation, Direct X etc..

They do generally drastically improve, yes. Even on Xbox 360 where MS's first parties weren't generally really bothered about having the best graphics ever as Sony's studios are, the gap from e.g. Forza 2 to Forza 4 was very big.

It's not that graphics will get worse but rather attaining 1080p will be harder and harder to achieve with all the things going on in your game. Last generation it seemed like so many games didn't hit 720p as time went on.

Such as what? Seems to me like resolutions generally improved over time.

 

[Jinroh]

Expected. The 30 Fps should be fine for this style of game

Are you kidding? It's a fast paced action game, 60 fps should be mandatory.

 

[Daft Bird]

Unfortunately, Xbone is the first console in history where the graphics will get worse over time. I know this because of a drive-by post by a Sony fanboy in a thread this one time.

I love this post too much!

 

[Xenon]

Platform bitching is port begging's ugly cousin. It's sad to see the BS going on in this thread because the "Too bad it's on the Xbone" comments were just starting to die down.

 

[mrklaw]

They do generally drastically improve, yes. Even on Xbox 360 where MS's first parties weren't generally really bothered about having the best graphics ever as Sony's studios are, the gap from e.g. Forza 2 to Forza 4 was very big.

But didn't resolution and framerate generally drop over time last gen, as more and more emphasis was put on fancy graphic effects over framerate stability or proper HD resolutions (not even 720p)?

 

[shinnn]

But it's an exclusive, how can they not hit full 1080?

There was a lot of exclusive sub-720p games on X360. Theres a lot of sub-1080p exclusives on XB1. MS has never been obsessed over native resolution.

 

[wsoxfan1214]

Why can't they use the infinite power of the cloud for that 60fps?

Alright, I own a PS4 and have no interest in an Xbone, but this shit in every topic is getting tiring.

 

[Skeff]

What do you think they're going to do though? They're not going to take massive losses on hardware sales and most people aren't going to spend $700 on a console.

Well... it is possible to have more powerful cheaper consoles if that's what your setting out to do, in fact this generation the most powerful console is not the most expensive to manufacture.

 

[abadguy]

At this point in its life-cycle, the Xbox 360 was giving us games like Gears of War, which set the benchmark for high-end, consumer-friendly (priced/ convenience) graphics for years, until Uncharted came around. Yet today, revisionist history abounds, and its no longer about the "graphics" at all, but all about the gameplay. Well, there are thousands of great "gameplay" experiences on tablets, Steam, Live and PSN for a fraction of the cost of what a supposed "premium" video-game system is supposed to offer. We used to pay $500 and get hardware that competed with PCs for at least a few years. Only one of these new consoles is keeping the pace, and barely at that. Why has the narrative changed so dramatically? PR brainwashing? The market getting older (and therefor more concerned with families and less with the minutae of gaming)? Or younger (and they simply can't recall the previous gens)?

I'm genuinely curious as to why the goal-posts have moved so much. And would we be having any of these discussions, at all, if MS hadn't buggered up the design and wasted their engineering on Kinect and bad RAM configurations? I don't think that we would. If anything, the shoe would be reversed and the hate would be raining on Sony's machine; justifiably so.

This may come as a surprise to some people but not every gamer is as obsessed with numbers/pixels as others, especially when the games still look great running on the console.

Platform bitching is port begging's ugly cousin. It's sad to see the BS going on in this thread because the "Too bad it's on the Xbone" comments were just starting to die down.

That is after all what this is really about. A certain group feeling "betrayed" by a dev that was formally exclusive to their console of choice. If people were really REALLY sticklers for 1080p 60fps they wouldn't even be gaming on consoles.

 

[Silky]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116505011&postcount=263

The implication is there.

you're reaching hard there

 

[EvB]

At this point in its life-cycle, the Xbox 360 was giving us games like Gears of War, which set the benchmark for high-end, consumer-friendly (priced/ convenience) graphics for years, until Uncharted came around. Yet today, revisionist history abounds, and its no longer about the "graphics" at all, but all about the gameplay.

Gears of War was also a pretty good game with some really well thought through mechanics.
It seems like you are doing some revising yourself.

Hey guys remember the days when all Ps2 games were jaggy messes?
You could just look at a game and think it was jaggy and then carry on with gaming.

 

[Gestault]

But it's an exclusive, how can they not hit full 1080?

It's likely down to the suite of effects and detail they want in an open-world game. We've seen the number of active enemies in each scene, and they would have left overhead planned for those situations with the addition of seven extra players for the co-op mode. If games can have good reasons for a lower resolution to keep things smooth, I feel like this is one of them. I think a slightly softer image means very little in scenes and visuals along the lines of what we've seen.

 

[Eleuin]

Let's look at the bright side: if this self-sustaining resolution (and framerate) "drama" persists over the next years, the console manufactures will not forget to focus adequately on performance with their next gaming system. As we learned, they do care about bad publicity (with resulting bad sales) and are willing to change accordingly.

You think they care what a vocal minority says?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Such as what? Seems to me like resolutions generally improved over time.

lol what?

 

[Zophar]

Are you serious right now? You're reading far too much into a comment that actually holds some weight of truth. It's no secret that gaming journalists aren't very good at games...

That's not the part I'm talking about. This is not really the thread for discussing this but if you don't see how "he made a favorable comparison to an exclusive on another platform and I think that is suspicious" doesn't imply the poster has some kind of ulterior motive I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Branduil]

"diminishing returnz"

I'm not sure this image proves what you think it proves. I mean, I could argue that the jump from 1 to 3 looks as impressive as the jump from 3 to 4, even though it's two games on the same hardware.

 

[ElTorro]

What do you think they're going to do though? They're not going to take massive losses on hardware sales and most people aren't going to spend $700 on a console.

Something like the PS4 has a good balance between price and performance, and its always about that relative balance than about absolute performance. There is no need to deviate from that. My point was more directed at the XBO which got mattricked unnecessarily in that respect. They sacrificed some of the idea of a gaming console (good gaming performance for a good price) in order to shape it as a trojan horse for Microsoft services and applications. Evidently, most of their customers don't care too much about these. Consequently, the performance/price ratio is worse than it could have been, and that might be something they won't want to repeat the next time they design such a system (unless the next system is something completely different, of course, like a pure streaming client).

 

[kasane]

loved the visuals but the e3 gameplay left a bad impression on me

shame they couldn't reach 1080p but there aint anything we can do ;[

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Let's look at the bright side: if this self-sustaining resolution (and framerate) "drama" persists over the next years, the console manufactures will not forget to focus adequately on performance with their next gaming system. As we learned, they do care about bad publicity (with resulting bad sales) and are willing to change accordingly.

This might happen if sales were bad but PS4 has flown off the shelves and despite the giant PR disasters of last year Xbone numbers are pretty healthy.

They have no reason to believe that they should aim for cutting edge hardware next time around.

 

[jstevenson]

When we began this project, Marcus and Drew laid out their design goals for the game: This included an open world, a LARGE number of enemies on screen, and effects that could rival a KISS concert (plenty of explosions, pyro, fireworks etc).

Everything has gone towards those goals. The game looks and plays awesome and hitting the game's vision and design goals was more important than an arbitrary resolution

 

[twobear]

But didn't resolution and framerate generally drop over time last gen, as more and more emphasis was put on fancy graphic effects over framerate stability or proper HD resolutions (not even 720p)?

GTAIV & RDR -> GTAV
Halo 3 -> Halo Reach -> Halo 4
PGR3 -> PGR4
ninja gaiden II -> ninja gaiden III
alan wake -> alan wake: american nightmare

all improved resolutions while also improving the graphical effects

 

[EternalTruth]

"diminishing returnz"

What are smoking the difference between Drake from 3 to 4 is huge!! and apparently its going to run at 1080p, with the devs aiming for 60fps... so we are definitely not seeing not diminishing returnzzzzzzzzzz ...

 

[Huggers]

When we began this project, Marcus and Drew laid out their design goals for the game: This included an open world, a LARGE number of enemies on screen, and effects that could rival a KISS concert (plenty of explosions, pyro, fireworks etc).

Everything has gone towards those goals. The game looks and plays awesome and hitting the game's vision and design goals was more important than an arbitrary resolution

It does indeed. Always enjoy your work.

 

[aries_71]

Alright, I own a PS4 and have no interest in an Xbone, but this shit in every topic is getting tiring.

Agreed. Stopped being clever the third time it was repeated. Now it's just tiresome and childish.

 

[abadguy]

When we began this project, Marcus and Drew laid out their design goals for the game: This included an open world, a LARGE number of enemies on screen, and effects that could rival a KISS concert (plenty of explosions, pyro, fireworks etc).

Everything has gone towards those goals. The game looks and plays awesome and hitting ]the game's vision and design goals was more important than an arbitrary resolution

As it should be. Game looks amazing!

 

[Silky]

When we began this project, Marcus and Drew laid out their design goals for the game: This included an open world, a LARGE number of enemies on screen, and effects that could rival a KISS concert (plenty of explosions, pyro, fireworks etc).

Everything has gone towards those goals. The game looks and plays awesome and hitting the game's vision and design goals was more important than an arbitrary resolution

So...is the framerate locked? Are you aiming to get it locked?

 

[Bgamer90]

When we began this project, Marcus and Drew laid out their design goals for the game: This included an open world, a LARGE number of enemies on screen, and effects that could rival a KISS concert (plenty of explosions, pyro, fireworks etc).

Everything has gone towards those goals. The game looks and plays awesome and hitting the game's vision and design goals was more important than an arbitrary resolution

You don't have to explain yourself. Many of the people that are "disappointed" probably weren't interested in the game anyway. Tell the crew to keep up the good work. Really looking forward to this game.

 

[TheTwelve]

Insomniac don't do 60fps anymore
anymore. I remember them saying about it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/insomniac-60fps-no-more

That's not going to fly very well a half-decade later.

 

[LittleJohnny]

That's a shame.

Developers like Insomniac deserve to be on Playstation so they can fully bring their art to its highest potential. They made a mistake.

Shouldn't they deserve PC then? Did they make a mistake going PS3 last gen? splain

 

[ElTorro]

They have no reason to believe that they should aim for cutting edge hardware next time around.

They should not. A good price is important, and they will not want to subsidize expensive console hardware again; which in fact is bad for gamers, since we would get a console that is powerful in its early life but has to withstand a long generation to compensate for the upfront losses.

I'd be perfectly ok with console hardware that has a reasonable price/performance ratio but get's upgraded every 3-4 years. The higher level of abstraction in game engineering would make the transitions costs between different hardware platforms less of issue of developers, so it would be possible to do that.

 

[Gbraga]

When we began this project, Marcus and Drew laid out their design goals for the game: This included an open world, a LARGE number of enemies on screen, and effects that could rival a KISS concert (plenty of explosions, pyro, fireworks etc).

Everything has gone towards those goals. The game looks and plays awesome and hitting the game's vision and design goals was more important than an arbitrary resolution

Can it hold 30 when everyone's doing crazy shit on co-op though?

 

[Smutpeddler]

It's disheartening for all the resolution crying and it will never stop. Next gen consoles will hit somewhere in the 2k range and all these complainers will scream about not hitting 4k. Take what they give you. It's a console. I would love more horsepower on both consoles, but they are what they are.