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Super Mario Sunshine....Gaf opinion!
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That Damn Kid
Member
I'm going to try replaying it before Osyssey comes out.
Favorite Mario game.
Favorite Mario game.
My first Mario game, and probably the one I played the most. The levels may not have had much platforming, but I actually enjoyed just running around and exploring the levels. Despite the limitations, Isle Delfino was very well-realized and really felt like a fresh new setting.
I'd love for nintendo to give this game the hd treatment, but its problems are so severe they would really need to do a full remake/overhaul for it to be acceptable in today's gaming environment.
I'd love for nintendo to give this game the hd treatment, but its problems are so severe they would really need to do a full remake/overhaul for it to be acceptable in today's gaming environment.
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
It's great, but not my favorite 3D Mario game.
Worth a play. Still holds up well, IMO.
Worth a play. Still holds up well, IMO.
Andyliini
Member
Worst Mario platformer, ever. The only 3D Mario I can't stand. I have tried to play it a couple of times, but never did get very far, maybe to the 4th world or so. The main problem is water, and it's everywhere. When it comes to water, I hate it in videogames, it always makes enjoyable game a chore to play, no matter the genre.
Second problem, the games physics are broken. I can't even push a watermelon in a straight line without the game screwing me over tenfold. Not to even mention jumping, watercannon, and the pinball machine.
I didn't know Nintendo was even capable of releasing a game this broken, but my god they did. Koizumi-god, my ass.
Second problem, the games physics are broken. I can't even push a watermelon in a straight line without the game screwing me over tenfold. Not to even mention jumping, watercannon, and the pinball machine.
I didn't know Nintendo was even capable of releasing a game this broken, but my god they did. Koizumi-god, my ass.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Just didnt click with me in the same way 64 or Galaxy did. Found the Fludd mechanic largely unsatisfying, and the worlds/levels a little samey.
GametimeUK
Member
It's a fantastic game and I still feel the Nintendo magic whenever I play it.
User123456
Member
I fucking love it so much. Level and mission design varies wildly from Mario 64 excellence to the kind of rage inducing shit you'd find in a bad 3D Sonic game, but most of it is good, the game looks and runs great and most importantly, THE MOVEMENT man. The way Mario controls is just the stuff of dreams.
Sunshine was my Gamecube killer app like almost no other. Along with Metroid Prime and FZero GX, Sunshine is the first game that comes to mind when I think "Gamecube".
Sunshine was my Gamecube killer app like almost no other. Along with Metroid Prime and FZero GX, Sunshine is the first game that comes to mind when I think "Gamecube".
I am sure I'd like it more today than my views back in the day. I thought Sunshine's resort theme made it seem like a more relaxed game, and I viewed that in a negative way.
One huge edge it has over 64, Galaxy 1 & 2, 3D Land & World, and the New Super Mario games is that its locations have a sense of history to them. There's a sense of continuity and world building in the locations, which the pattern of unlocking Sprites in each location alludes to. 64 had this loosely, Galaxy barely has it as the goal is traveling small spaces in space, and the New Super Mario games just go for visual themes and absolutely nothing else, with 3D Land & World having just a bit more flair in those respects.
It's that bit in Sunshine I hope Odyssey continues.
One huge edge it has over 64, Galaxy 1 & 2, 3D Land & World, and the New Super Mario games is that its locations have a sense of history to them. There's a sense of continuity and world building in the locations, which the pattern of unlocking Sprites in each location alludes to. 64 had this loosely, Galaxy barely has it as the goal is traveling small spaces in space, and the New Super Mario games just go for visual themes and absolutely nothing else, with 3D Land & World having just a bit more flair in those respects.
It's that bit in Sunshine I hope Odyssey continues.
Alter_Fridge
Member
Rockondevil
Member
I've always thought Sunshine got a lot of unjust hate.
I enjoyed it immensely, possibly more than Galaxy. That isn't to say it is a better game than Galaxy, but I just found more enjoyment in it. Couldn't say if it was based on my age at the times of their releases or not though.
I enjoyed it immensely, possibly more than Galaxy. That isn't to say it is a better game than Galaxy, but I just found more enjoyment in it. Couldn't say if it was based on my age at the times of their releases or not though.
Vampirolol
Member
Loved it back then, it was my first 3D Mario.
But replaying it is really hard... a lot of the levels just aren't great and damn those blue coins really suck.
Still loved the atmosphere, especially in the hotel.
But replaying it is really hard... a lot of the levels just aren't great and damn those blue coins really suck.
Still loved the atmosphere, especially in the hotel.
SleepingDragon
Member
It's probably my favorite Mario game.
Cave Johnson
Member
This is the only mainline game where I have stopped at the final boss battle. Guess I need to come round playing it through the emulator again.
I didn't like it..largely because the water pack made it seem not like a Mario game (or at least not a true continuation/evolution of the Mario 64 template).
If they called it Captain Toads Sunshine Splash and had a different main character..I'd probably have enjoyed it more as it just wasn't what I wanted or expected from mainline Mario.
I found it a letdown compared to Mario 64.. as it felt you kind of had constant training wheels when you had FLUDD. A safety net. I'd have much prefered it as an occasional power-up along the lines of a feather or fireballs..as opposed to an almost constant item.
If they called it Captain Toads Sunshine Splash and had a different main character..I'd probably have enjoyed it more as it just wasn't what I wanted or expected from mainline Mario.
I found it a letdown compared to Mario 64.. as it felt you kind of had constant training wheels when you had FLUDD. A safety net. I'd have much prefered it as an occasional power-up along the lines of a feather or fireballs..as opposed to an almost constant item.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
This is how I felt. I loved it at first, then grew to hate it.
The Greek Freak
Member
A straight up garbage game. Nothing good about it besides how the water looks.
I'm still shocked Nintendo released that crap without swapping Mario out.
I'm still shocked Nintendo released that crap without swapping Mario out.
I never understood this kind of statement : a game is a game, its qualities and pleasure remain intact, regardless of the title, it doesn't change anything except the skin and the title. So I definitely don't see how just a title can spoil the pleasure in a game. I don't see how a change in the title and the skin can drastically change a platformer game.
I could understand if Super Mario Sunshine was released just today, because we were surprised, we excepted something else from a 3D Mario game and we could fear the new 3D Mario games would look like Sunshine (as New Super Mario Bros DS was "cloned" on Wii, 3DS and Wii U, so I can understand why people can hate these games which are too similar). But now that we had very different other 3D Mario games such as Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, Super Mario 3D World (and soon Super Mario Odyssey), I thought people would be "relieved" about the future of the series and that Super Mario Sunshine's differences were better accepted
Toadthemushroom
Member
I love Sunshine. It has its flaws but everything else makes up for them in my eyes. The locales all give you a superb sense of "being there". Mario controls like a dream, and the variety of actions you can perform to get the job done with FLUDD are insane.
Magicpaint
Member
Agreed. I'm very fond of it.
I've forgotten one more thing :
Not at all. You're right if you're doing normal jumps with Yoshi. But if you're using a spin jump while riding Yoshi, you can do the highest and the longest jump in the game. Spin jump is a little hard to master (but it's normal, or else it would be too easy), but it makes the 8th Shine in Ricco Harbor relatively easy (without using the coconut juice to create ascending platforms) because you can reach the summit without using a single enemy platform (or just the very first one).
You can also reach the blue coin at the summit of the pirate boat attraction in Pinna Island thanks to Yoshi and its (cheated) spin jump, without using the (upside down) pirate boats.
So on the contrary, I think Yoshi is "god tier" (except its weakness against water) in Super Mario Sunshine.
Not at all. You're right if you're doing normal jumps with Yoshi. But if you're using a spin jump while riding Yoshi, you can do the highest and the longest jump in the game. Spin jump is a little hard to master (but it's normal, or else it would be too easy), but it makes the 8th Shine in Ricco Harbor relatively easy (without using the coconut juice to create ascending platforms) because you can reach the summit without using a single enemy platform (or just the very first one).
You can also reach the blue coin at the summit of the pirate boat attraction in Pinna Island thanks to Yoshi and its (cheated) spin jump, without using the (upside down) pirate boats.
So on the contrary, I think Yoshi is "god tier" (except its weakness against water) in Super Mario Sunshine.
I adore Mario Sunshine. I understand it gets a lot of flack, and frankly I sort of understand some of it. The game is probably one of the least polished of the 3D major Mario titles. There are a ton of weird, wonky glitches and physics related things (such as the plinko machine shine), and a few overly difficult shines such as bringing Yoshi to the island one and kicking around the fruit and whatnot.
But to me, Mario Sunshine has an style and feel to it that is unbeatable. It's so charming, relaxing, and fun. I love Isle Delfino and Fludd really makes Mario's movement abilities much more interesting and complex. Honestly, I do probably love it so much solely because of it's tropical "relaxing" vibe, but I do genuinely think the game has a very large amount of enjoyable content in it combined with its tight but complex controls. It's different enough from Mario 64/Galaxy to warrant a play, just know to expect something a bit more unique and obtuse as far as Mario games go.
But to me, Mario Sunshine has an style and feel to it that is unbeatable. It's so charming, relaxing, and fun. I love Isle Delfino and Fludd really makes Mario's movement abilities much more interesting and complex. Honestly, I do probably love it so much solely because of it's tropical "relaxing" vibe, but I do genuinely think the game has a very large amount of enjoyable content in it combined with its tight but complex controls. It's different enough from Mario 64/Galaxy to warrant a play, just know to expect something a bit more unique and obtuse as far as Mario games go.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Member
Loved it! But imo, out of all the recent Mario game releases, this one would be an amazing remake if they did it for the Switch.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
It also gave us this theme from one of the trailers, which has stuck with for all these years. I would buy this game in a heartbeat if it ever gets a HD release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaFdCx34njk
yes he was.
Yoshi was unarguably a massibe downgrade in sunshine. Not for the reason Wamb0wneD mentioned in his post, but because mario would lose most of his moves the moment he picked up yoshi, therefore losing all his movement options, aside from having a buffed spin jump.
Yoshi should have never been included in the game. He was awfully implemented.
Moves than mario lost when using yoshi in shunshine:
- side flip
- wall kick
- the dive (the "b" button), and it's two folloups.
- dive jumps (canceling the startup of a jump with a dive)
- the water pack (both spaying water and floating in mid air)
- swimming
- being able to spray water in front of you, then dive into it, so that mario would slide super fast across the stage
- interaction with ropes
...
avoid yoshi at all costs. He takes away from you sunshine's only strong aspect: mario's movement.
I disagree, but it's your opinion. I was much more "shocked" by the implementation of Yoshi in Super Mario 64 : I was so disappointed at that time.
In Super Mario Sunshine, Yoshi is here for "hardcore" platform (and for some optional blue coins) and it does it very well. I remind you that the 8th Shine in Ricco Harbor is totally OPTIONAL : you can skip it to finish the game and this mission doesn't unlock any more optional stages or missions (contrary to the Green Stars in Super Mario Galaxy 2 which were required to unlock the final comet, or contrary to all green stars, flags and stamps to unlock the final world). And I suppose you'll learn nothing if I tell you there were "hardcore stars" in Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 as well.
And when you're talking, you're telling me that Yoshi is less fun than Mario to control : I think it is always the case in all Mario games ! Yoshi is just a BONUS in the Mario games and is ALWAYS less fun to control than Mario (even in Super Mario World or Super Mario Galaxy 2). Yoshi has always been considered like a (nice) "power-up item" in all Mario games in order to expand the gameplay and add some variation, but the gameplay's core (and pleasure) in all Mario games has always been Mario himself and alone without power-up. So I'm glad that Yoshi isn't too present in Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario Galaxy 2, or else I would have been annoyed. We can see Yoshi just enough to feel some variation in the gameplay, but not too often so that we aren't annoyed.
cereal_killerxx
Junior Member
Agreed. 3D world wasn't awful by any means but I had so many issues with it.
Elfstar
Member
Mario Sunshine was one of the biggest disappointment of my gaming life.
Stilistically it's a really bizarre and weird game, even borderline ugly in some cases, and the monothematic setting destroyed the visual variety.
The gameplay itself it's great, but everything is hampered by a lot of questionable level and game design choices.
Aside from that, the game was clearly unfinished and rushed to the market. It surely lacks worlds and missions, and that's why they had to compensate with that dumb blue coin padding. Just like Wind Waker.
Nowadays i kinda miss that kind of traditional, Mario 64-esque gameplay though.
Stilistically it's a really bizarre and weird game, even borderline ugly in some cases, and the monothematic setting destroyed the visual variety.
The gameplay itself it's great, but everything is hampered by a lot of questionable level and game design choices.
Aside from that, the game was clearly unfinished and rushed to the market. It surely lacks worlds and missions, and that's why they had to compensate with that dumb blue coin padding. Just like Wind Waker.
Nowadays i kinda miss that kind of traditional, Mario 64-esque gameplay though.
what am i reading....
you're going to have to explain me what's hardcore platform about spamming a completely busted spin jump (which is the only thing yoshi can do).
And, by the way, what you referred previously as the spin jump, for yoshi, is actually two separated moves. Yoshi's spin jump is pretty much the same as mario's. The difference is that, because yoshi can't use fluud, they gave yoshi an aditional move.
If you rotate the analog stick 360º while mario (not yoshi) is in the air, he will start spinning, but continue falling. However, if you do the same thing with yoshi, and hold the "a" button afterwards, yoshi will actually start going upwards while spinning. So, you gain a bit of heigh, and you can travel a significant horizontal distance before falling. This action can be done, with yoshi, in midair, after any of his jumps (aside from the tripple jump).
So, in sunhine, unlike in the other mario games, to extend a jump with yoshi, instead of simpy holding "a" to use yoshi's "flutter jump" (where he does his characteristic noise while moving his legs), it's better to rotate he stick 360º, right as you hold "a", to use yoshi's mid air spin instead.
What happens when you do a spin jump with yoshi, is that you're already spinning (because you've already rotated the stick, to do the spin jump from the ground) and you're also holding the "a" button already (to do a high spin jump), so, when the spin jump ends, and before you start to fall, you automatically transition into yoshi's mid air spin (which gives you an aditional bit of heigh and extends your jump horizontally even further).
So, yoshi's spin jump is not "the highest and longest jump in the game", as that's the combination of two separated actions. The second part of what you call the "spin jump", can also be used with both the regular jump and the double jump.
If the player does not realize that yoshi's "spin jump" is actually two separated actions, they will only use the second part when doing a spin jump (as it happens automatically). However, if they are aware of it being two different actions, they can also use the second one to further extend their regular or double jumps.
this is a pretty weak defense, as yoshi is not a downgrade at all, in world or galaxy 2, compared to the extent that he is in sunshine.
Like you said yourself, yoshi was actually a power up in super mario world (he could spit fire, you could use him as a platform to jump from him while in mid air, sending him to his dead, but saving yourself, ect...).
Maybe you want to post a list of what moves mario lost in those games when using yoshi, and we compare it to the list a made for sunshine? lol
Yoshi was the opposite of a powerup in sunshine. You didn't gain anything from using him, and lost most of your moveset for traversal in a 3D space. You needed him for some shines, that was about it.
are we done here?
like, how is anyone defensing yoshi's inclusion in sunshine? he was so bad.It's a good game that is absolutely worth trying for every platforming or Mario fan. I'd say it's certainly a step down from Mario's greatest 3D games (which I recommend to everyone, regardless of if you like Mario or platforming), but those are held to an extremely lofty standard as some of the highest caliber games ever made.
Sunshine is not one of the greatest games ever made when considering all genres. But it is a classic among 3D platformers specifically. Its unique setting and controls make it very refreshing to come back to even for people who play a ton of Nintendo games.
Unfortunately, it was clearly rushed and some challenges feel unbalanced and particularly frustrating. It could have used a bit more play testing and another months of development time. But a large portion (in fact a majority) of what is there is very enjoyable. Unfortunately, the rough parts are so numerous and uncharacteristic for the franchise that they tend to stick out more than the good parts.
It's worth playing and beating. But not worth a 100% playthrough.
Sunshine is not one of the greatest games ever made when considering all genres. But it is a classic among 3D platformers specifically. Its unique setting and controls make it very refreshing to come back to even for people who play a ton of Nintendo games.
Unfortunately, it was clearly rushed and some challenges feel unbalanced and particularly frustrating. It could have used a bit more play testing and another months of development time. But a large portion (in fact a majority) of what is there is very enjoyable. Unfortunately, the rough parts are so numerous and uncharacteristic for the franchise that they tend to stick out more than the good parts.
It's worth playing and beating. But not worth a 100% playthrough.
Road of Ease
Member
It sticks out in the Mario series and it's kind of weird (which makes it similar to SMB 2 now that I think about it), but it's also a beautiful, chill and enjoyable game. I like it. Don't get the hate.
Soulscribe
Member
I remember being obsessed with the graphics and art style, and in particular the sound of Mario's shoes click-clacking on the ground as he ran around. It's such a satisfying noise and every once in a while I'll watch a gameplay video as a funny reminder. It's those little satisfying details that always drew me to Nintendo games. Anyway, the gameplay itself was a mix of great and bad, I thought. The water mechanics I thought were fabulous but there were large segments that felt borderline unfinished.
Where the game misses the mark is in execution, and it's mainly because every other mainline Mario entry is so pristine and polished that Sunshine sticks out. It was strange to see so many bugs and undercooked segments in a AAA Mario release. That aside though, if the game was given an extra year of development (or, let's face it, if it were developed by Nintendo now) it would be perfection. Still a classic.
Where the game misses the mark is in execution, and it's mainly because every other mainline Mario entry is so pristine and polished that Sunshine sticks out. It was strange to see so many bugs and undercooked segments in a AAA Mario release. That aside though, if the game was given an extra year of development (or, let's face it, if it were developed by Nintendo now) it would be perfection. Still a classic.
absolutely this.
That's exactly my point : I consider these "two separated actions" as just one single action. That's why the spin jump while riding Yoshi is the longest and highest jump in the game. If I followed your logic, I could also consider "triple jump + JET by holding R button" like four different actions : it doesn't make any sense, I consider it as just one single "jump" and this jump is definitely less high and less long as Yoshi's spin jump !
And it is "hardcore" because the spin jump is hard to do and Yoshi dies if it falls in the water.
About Yoshi in Super Mario Galaxy 2, I consider it as a nice feature, but definitely less fun to control than Mario : you lose the long jump (I think, that is what I remember), the spin attack and you are slower than Mario alone.
And it isn't the question about "how many moves Mario loses when riding Yoshi" : the fact is that the "flow" is better when we control Mario alone, in all Mario games. They are Mario games, not Yoshi games (for that, there is Yoshi's Island), so its normal Mario is much funnier and far more interesting to control than Yoshi (who is just like a nice power-up bringing nice variation in the gameplay, but not too often before the player is annoyed) in all Mario games.
this is a pretty weak defense, as yoshi is not a downgrade at all, in world or galaxy 2, compared to the extent that he is in sunshine.
Like you said yourself, yoshi was actually a power up in super mario world (he could spit fire, you could use him as a platform to jump from him while in mid air, sending him to his dead, but saving yourself, ect...).
Maybe you want to post a list of what moves mario lost in those games when using yoshi, and we compare it to the list a made for sunshine? lol
Yoshi was the opposite of a powerup in sunshine. You didn't gain anything from using him, and lost most of your moveset for traversal in a 3D space. You needed him for some shines, that was about it.
are we done here? like, how is anyone defensing yoshi's inclusion in sunshine?
[/QUOTE]It's definitely a good game, the thing for me is the lack of level variety. Given that it's all centered around this one place every level is some sun filled village, beach, whatever. Coming from Mario 64 with such a diverse set of levels that's a bit of a letdown.
you're clearly not realizing that i was simply explaining you, and everyone else reading it, how yoshi's "spin jump" actually works in sunshine. I wasn't doing any mental gimnastics or anything, maybe you read my comment with the wrong mindset?
And, either way, if you want to ignore the whole explanation i wrote (which was the valuable part of the post), and only take the last phrase at face value, it's still true. Yoshi's spin jump wasn't the higherst and longest jump in the game, like you previously said. That's just how it is. I was simply informing people how it actually worked, because you can actually use the second part of what you call the "spin jump", with both your regular jump and double jump, like i explained in my previous post.
If the player does not realize that yoshi's "spin jump" is actually two separated actions, they will only use the second part when doing a spin jump (as it happens automatically). However, if they are aware of it being two different actions, they can also use the second one to further extend their regular or double jumps.
Way to downplay my comment lol
edit:
again, the difference being that, in sunshine, the "flow" takes a much harder hit, compared to the other games, because sunshine had much bigger levels and was more centered in player control, which was why mario has way more moves and was much more mobile in sunshine, compared to a 3D mario like galaxy 2, yet he loses all those very much needed moves when picking up yoshi.
Also, bringing up galaxy 2 only helps my case, because it shows the contrast between, all the ulitily tied to yoshi in galaxy 2 (yoshi's transformations, etc...) vs yoshi pretty much not adding anything at all in sunshine. That's regarding adding stuff. If we compare how much yoshi takes away from mario, it's much more significant in sunshine, which is why it affect the "flow" negatively. More specifically, it slows down the gameplay.
and, in your previous post, you left part of my previous post, that i think you forgot to remove? (it's quoted improperly)
mordecaii83
Member
Coming off SM64 which was my favorite game of all time back then (and maybe still is), SMS was just a disappointment. I didn't like the FLUDD mechanic, the story was terrible, and the levels were too samey (I missed the larger variety previous games had such as ice levels, a haunted house, etc).
I also didn't like how they steered you so hard towards one specific shine every time you went in a level and preferred the more open SM64 where you almost always had multiple stars you could go after.
I also didn't like how they steered you so hard towards one specific shine every time you went in a level and preferred the more open SM64 where you almost always had multiple stars you could go after.
when that happens, it would make more sense to simply port 3D world, instead of trying to figure out how to make galaxy work on the switch (no pointing at the screen for moving the starbit cursor, no waggle for using mario's spin)