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[J@hranimo]

RIP:

MaverickHunterAsh
theprodigy
Revven

Wait.....what?

I just played a couple races with Revven today! D:

SmashGAF what happened?

 

[Ryce]

It just dawned on me that no Lucas in Smash 4 means no Lucas amiibo figure

Profound sadness

I wouldn't be surprised if Amiibo factored into the decision to cut him, since Mother 3 was never released outside of Japan.

 

[HK-47]

Wait.....what?

I just played a couple races with Revven today! D:

SmashGAF what happened?

An example was made.

 

[Troubled Bat]

It just dawned on me that no Lucas in Smash 4 means no Lucas amiibo figure

Profound sadness

You aren't Guy.

 

[Kouriozan]

It just dawned on me that no Lucas in Smash 4 means no Lucas amiibo figure

Profound sadness

Cheer up, he might be a DLC character!
Lucas was my main so of course I would be sad if he is getting cut. And nothing is set in stone in the leak, they are discussing about it.

 

[-Horizon-]

RIP:

MaverickHunterAsh
theprodigy
Revven

So what happ-

So the attitudes in this thread have been getting progressively nastier and closer to crossing a line since E3 (with some posters in particular being especially caustic), and it needs to stop.

When it breaks out into insults towards each other, that's a breaking point. It doesn't matter if you think that the other person is being too dismissive of your taste in toys, or whether you mistakenly believe that they are someone you read about on the internet, or whether Jimmy started it when he grabbed my Power Ranger so it's not fair if I get timeout too.


Also: the bans were differing lengths based on the circumstances and ban histories involved, so please don't spread "facts" based on whatever little information you have.

Oh, never mind.

 

[ReiGun]

Yeah but what other fighter do "casual" gamers even play?

Um...all of them? Every major fighting game has a large casual fanbase, and none of them have this hostile divide between casual and competitive players. There are jokes and whatnot on both sides, maybe even a little animosity, but Smash is the only game I see where it feels like people simply do not want the other side to exist because they think someone playing 1v1 with no items or 4v4 with all pokeballs somewhere in the world is ruining their fun. It's flat out ridiculous to me.

 

[R0ckman]

L-canceling isn't an exploit, it was a planned feature. Most people don't know this however because it's actually called "Smooth Landing".

It doesn't sound like you know what it is fully, the extension of chaining it into moves is not intended. Thus is where the comparison to Snaking comes in.

 

[HK-47]

Um...all of them? Every major fighting game has a large casual fanbase, and none of them have this hostile divide between casual and competitive players. There are jokes and whatnot on both sides, maybe even a little animosity, but Smash is the only game I see where it feels like people simply do not want the other side to exist because they think someone playing 1v1 with no items or 4v4 with all pokeballs somewhere in the world is ruining their fun. It's flat out ridiculous to me.

I dont think there are any smash players that dont ocassionally play with pokeballs and assist trophies on very high.

 

[jph139]

So - assuming there'll be unlockables this time, and the Gematsu leak is the full extent of newcomers - I'm figuring the last three guys are going to be hidden until release. And I figure the following will remain unlockable:

Ganondorf
Falco
Wolf
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ness
ROB
Mr. Game & Watch
Sonic
Mega Man
Pac-Man
Chrom
Shulk
Chorus Men
MAYBE Luigi

That's about 15 locked out of 47 characters, so about 30% of the total roster. For comparison, 44% of Melee's were unlockable, 40% of Brawl's characters, and 33% of the original's. A big step down total! If this turns out to be the case, we only have three veteran starters left to reveal - Ice Climbers, Wario, and Meta Knight. That's one Veteran a month between now and release, which I think is a pretty reasonable expectation.

 

[HK-47]

It doesn't sound like you know what it is fully, the extension of chaining it into moves is not intended. Thus is where the comparison to Snaking comes in.

Do you think Sakurai didnt know that reducing landing lag would be used to defend or attack sooner, including comboing? Thats like the whole reason you'd put something like that in.

 

[Karsticles]

I asked about this earlier (probably four or five pages back at this point) but this thread moves so fast that it's hard to keep track: Has DaBoss (or anyone) posted an analysis of the newcomer move-sets? I'm especially interested to see if anyone has figured out what may be Palutena's default move-set. The trailer shows all 12 specials (I counted!) and her Final Smash, so I'm curious which specials among the 12 are the ones she'll have by default. This is important since her default move-set is the only one that can be used in ALL game modes, including against randoms online.

Neoriceisgood did a convincing layout. I also reposted it in the FGW thread.

 

[BassForever]

So - assuming there'll be unlockables this time, and the Gematsu leak is the full extent of newcomers - I'm figuring the last three guys are going to be hidden until release. And I figure the following will remain unlockable:

Ganondorf
Falco
Wolf
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ness
ROB
Mr. Game & Watch
Sonic
Mega Man
Pac-Man
Chrom
Shulk
Chorus Men
MAYBE Luigi

That's about 15 locked out of 47 characters, so about 30% of the total roster. For comparison, 44% of Melee's were unlockable, 40% of Brawl's characters, and 33% of the original's. A big step down total! If this turns out to be the case, we only have three veteran starters left to reveal - Ice Climbers, Wario, and Meta Knight. That's one Veteran a month between now and release, which I think is a pretty reasonable expectation.

I feel pretty confident Sakurai is going to reveal all the newcomers before the game launches, seems like he was upset by people spoiling the cutscenes he created for SSE by uploading them to youtube and I get a similar feeling with these newcomer trailers he's put up.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I wouldn't be surprised if Amiibo factored into the decision to cut him, since Mother 3 was never released outside of Japan.

It's possible that it could happens. I really like how Amiibo's figurines look so high quality. I'm eager to see it in person.

 

[ReiGun]

I dont think there are any smash players that dont ocassionally play with pokeballs and assist trophies on very high.

Me neither. Which is what makes it even more perplexing to me. My friends and I typically play 4v4 no items, but sometimes we turn on pokeballs or bombs or play 3 on 1 teams or whatever. I think most Smash players try to enjoy every option the game has to offer from time to time. That includes competitive players, despite spending the majority of their play time in 1v1.

The "us vs them" mentality that forms whenever people talk about balance or what have you need not exist. Especially when most of it is built on building and attacking strawmen and spreading misinformation. Everyone wants the game to be fun as possible, and many games (including Smash) have shown that satisfying the needs of one type of player need not come at the expense of another.

 

[GameGuru59]

Do you think Sakurai didnt know that reducing landing lag would be used to defend or attack sooner, including comboing? Thats like the whole reason you'd put something like that in.

Judging from his current statements, and the current length of landing lag in Smash 4, apparently not.

 

[R0ckman]

Do think Sakurai didnt know that reducing landing lag would be used to defend or attack sooner, including comboing? Thats like the whole reason you'd put something like that in.

It was simply to defend, there is a gap between landing and shielding, use that gap to insert a move and you have the best possible way use it, but also not the way it was intended.

 

[HK-47]

Judging from his current statements, and the current length of landing lag in Smash 4, apparently not.

You know, you can decide to change things in sequels. It doesnt mean he didnt anticipate that very obvious application, consider animation canceling and lag reduction are a big part of nearly every fighting game.

 

[HK-47]

It was simply to defend, there is a gap between landing and shielding, use that gap to insert a move and you have the best possible way use it, but also not the way it was intended.

You have him stating that wasnt intended or being "misused"?

 

[Kid Ska]

If Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man vs. Pac-Man isn't an event match, there is nothing right in this world.

 

[Mr. Smiley]

If Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man vs. Pac-Man isn't an event match, there is nothing right in this world.

Expect Mario to be huge to inflate dat

Spoiler

deserved

Nintendo ego.

 

[rekameohs]

If Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man vs. Pac-Man isn't an event match, there is nothing right in this world.

Mario vs. Snake vs. Sonic vs. the player was the final one in Brawl so it's pretty much a certainty.

 

[R0ckman]

You have him stating that wasnt intended or being "misused"?

I would think the fact that its tied to the button that is used for defending would make it obvious, but I guess I'm asking for too much for people to make the connection.

 

[IntelliHeath]

If Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man vs. Pac-Man isn't an event match, there is nothing right in this world.

I hope so. That would be awesome event mode. I think I did suggested that long time ago when we found out the first leak.

 

[Not75Drops]

Here is your filling for a day until DaBoss coming back.

It seems weird to me that Lightweight would be a normal dash and therefore faster than Sonic and it looks like she was in the middle of a dash before Lightweight was used. Granted, I haven't played Smash in a while. Also, all of her specials are based off Uprising powers so does Charged Staff Shot fit?

 

[Unicorn]

3DS can do patches, like with Pokemon X/Y save glitch, and DLC Fire Emblem Awakening and Mario Golf.

And now those games are worse off. Fuck patches.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

It seems weird to me that Lightweight would be a normal dash and therefore faster than Sonic and it looks like she was in the middle of a dash before Lightweight was used. Granted, I haven't played Smash. Also, all of her specials are based off Uprising powers so does Charged Staff Shot fit?

Nah, I don't think it's a dash, either.

 

[jwluther]

Random question: I'm assuming the answer is no, but has anyone demoed Smash 3DS on an original 3DS? I'm still rocking my OG Aqua Blue, and am slightly concerned about how comfortable (or not) Smash will be on it.

 

[MrSaturn99]

And now those games are worse off. Fuck patches.

Even X/Y?

 

[GameGuru59]

You know, you can decide to change things in sequels. It doesnt mean he didnt anticipate that very obvious application, consider animation canceling and lag reduction is a big part of nearly every fighting game.

Yes, I'm saying he's changing it because he (and Nintendo in general) don't appreciate the wide gulf in skill that the technique creates. Nintendo doesn't appreciate games that require a high level of skill with the input device itself. They believe nuance ought to emerge from the gameplay. This is evident in every video gaming device Nintendo has created, ever. And it is evident in all of their major gaming franchises. Therefore, to reduce the skill gulf between casual and competitive players, they (Sakurai) are reducing the number of inputs available to the user. You will likely have fewer mobility options in Smash 4, and this is by design.

 

[IntelliHeath]

It seems weird to me that Lightweight would be a normal dash and therefore faster than Sonic and it looks like she was in the middle of a dash before Lightweight was used. Granted, I haven't played Smash in a while. Also, all of her specials are based off Uprising powers so does Charged Staff Shot fit?

Hmm, I will have to take a look at trailer again. I'm trying to figure out the move sets because there are so many moves there.

 

[Unicorn]

Even X/Y?

oh, forgot my sarcasm tag.

/s *

 

[Troubled Bat]

I wonder when Shulk will be shown. :3

 

[Kid Ska]

Expect Mario to be huge to inflate dat

Spoiler

deserved

Nintendo ego.

And for Mega Man to start off with 300% damage, inflicted by Capcom of course.

 

[ColossalLazy]

Man is there a video looping the character select music? Shit is so good.

 

[DaBoss]

He's been avoiding SmashGAF today because of the graveyard.

It's actually how heated the discussion is that made me avoid it. The bans are the aftermath. :/

Anyways, I'm more interested in the changes to veterans and mechanics than newcomers this time around lol.

Also, my posts aren't meant to be "be all end all", it is to spur discussion and is a community effort.

Lots of people have posted things already and covered things individually and they were great posts, but the thread is moving too fast and a bunch of different things are being talked about. Maybe dissect things in the next thread where it will probably slower.

As for Palutena (her gameplay portion of the trailer I feel is poorly made) made a nice image with what he thinks the specials are. Edit: seems like people already mentioned that lol.

 

[Troubled Bat]

When is the Smash 3DSXL going to be shown!

 

[Tookay]

The hard part about this whole conversation is that its really hard for us on the outside to know how the larger casual audience felt about how Brawl played versus Melee. I preferred Melee physics but I don't think its impossible that the majority of the playerbase preferred Brawl physics. Nintendo & Sakurai, due to their sorceresses in collecting data, 100% have a better understanding of how the casual audience responded to the changes than ANYBODY in this thread, Smashboards, etc. do.

I'm skeptical that most players could even articulate how they feel about the two, let alone compare their differences.

 

[ReiGun]

Watching vids on Youtube. My dude Greninja is looking like a problem.

 

[Daouzin]

Me neither. Which is what makes it even more perplexing to me. My friends and I typically play 4v4 no items, but sometimes we turn on pokeballs or bombs or play 3 on 1 teams or whatever. I think most Smash players try to enjoy every option the game has to offer from time to time. That includes competitive players, despite spending the majority of their play time in 1v1.

The "us vs them" mentality that forms whenever people talk about balance or what have you need not exist. Especially when most of it is built on building and attacking strawmen and spreading misinformation. Everyone wants the game to be fun as possible, and many games (including Smash) have shown that satisfying the needs of one type of player need not come at the expense of another.

Yeah I 100% agree with your sentiment but as a competitive player, even while drinking, everyone I play competitive with never play with any items on, but we all play with low tiers and items on high when we play with casuals and play for fun like everyone else.

Our casual friends still have fun and prefer PM.

 

[Ryce]

Some events I’d like to see…

Competitive Eating
Characters - Pac-Man vs. Kirby vs. Yoshi vs. Wario
Stage - maybe Yoshi’s stage (something colorful)

Food is constantly spawning, and whoever eats the most within the time limit wins. Isabelle’s Assist Trophy is also here to throw fruit, and Munchlax walks around stealing food.

Timber!
Characters - Villager vs. Toon Link
Stage - Town & City

Plant a tree and defend it from Toon Link (whose AI aggressively goes after the tree) for a certain amount of time.

Wii Fit
Characters - Wii Fit Trainer (Female) vs. Wii Fit Trainer (Male)
Stage - Wii Fit Studio

Perform all of the exercises listed on-screen before the opponent does.

Chapter 20 Revisited
Characters - Pit vs. Palutena
Stage - Palutena’s Temple

You must defeat the Chaos Kin while keeping Palutena alive, but a single blow to Palutena K.O.s her.

Smash Bros. Circuit
Characters - Little Mac vs. Donkey Kong vs. Bowser vs. King Dedede
Stage - Boxing Ring (Smash Bros. version)

With only one stock, fill your meter up and perform Little Mac’s K.O. Uppercut on DK. After he’s killed, Bowser runs out; do the same to him, and then finally to Dedede to become the Smash Bros. champion.

 

[Kid Ska]

Competitive Eating
Characters - Pac-Man vs. Kirby vs. Yoshi vs. Wario
Stage - maybe Yoshi’s stage (something colorful)

Food is constantly spawning, and whoever eats the most within the time limit wins. Isabelle’s Assist Trophy is also here to throw fruit, and Munchlax walks around stealing food.

YES.

 

[Megalosaro]

I'm skeptical that most players could even articulate how they feel about the two, let alone compare their differences.

That is where focus testing comes into play

 

[Vermillion]

I definitely want some Kirby: Triple Deluxe music in this game.

Particularly this

Spoiler

:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmxR486CYgk

On the Fountain of Dreams stage.

Oh, and

Spoiler

Dark Meta Knight's theme

on the Halberd.

EDIT: And can we get some Heavy Lobster on the Halberd, too?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=619ZVPR6nVk

 

[LeMaximilian]

Coincidence?

 

[OricWindstar]

I definitely want some Kirby: Triple Deluxe music in this game.

Particularly this

Spoiler

:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmxR486CYgk

On the Fountain of Dreams stage.

Oh, and

Spoiler

Dark Meta Knight's theme

on the Halberd.

Spoiler

That would be epic!

Speaking of Smash music, is there a collection of all the confirmed music yet? If not, I may assemble a youtube playlist and add things as their confirmed/released. I love listening to new Smash music on the cusp of its release.

 

[Village]

Coincidence?

Yes.

Sega has a character and and an assist in the game already

So yes.

Namco is making the damn video game and they are only getting one guy an and a assist trophy(s) or rather that star flag. .

 

[Berordn]

Competitive Eating
Characters - Pac-Man vs. Kirby vs. Yoshi vs. Wario
Stage - maybe Yoshi’s stage (something colorful)

Food is constantly spawning, and whoever eats the most within the time limit wins. Isabelle’s Assist Trophy is also here to throw fruit, and Munchlax walks around stealing food.

what

i'll sue

 

[Troubled Bat]

Coincidence?

Max pls ;_;

I'm going to expect Bayonetta as a costume!

 

[LeMaximilian]

Max pls ;_;

I'm going to expect Bayonetta as a costume!

It's perfect for DLC. That and Protoman.