A Link to the Past
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Zek said:
And Ganondorf is?
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Super Smash Brothers Brawl *SPOILERS**SPOILERS**SPOILERS*
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And Ganondorf is?
No, and Ganondorf wasn't done justice at all by making him one either. Just look at Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNSS4VQLktY (MP3 spoilers)A Link to the Snitch said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Zek said:
I see no point in that post.
Dark Samus can be a clone of Samus. Does DS not have any moves even remotely resembling Samus'?
perfectchaos007
Member
Have we figured out the 35th character yet?
WiiRevolution1
Member
Agreed. Stage Builder = Win!Avrum said:
But its just to bad that it looks like you can't choose where each player respwans
Anyway when I get teh game tomorrow I'm gonna make this stage
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p231/WiiRevolution1/abrawlicesheild.jpg
Yea its lame-ish but I like it. :lol
Putting it on the developer isn't any better either. Otherwise as an engineer, I can label all the shortcomings of every product I put out as 'intended features.' And then no one is allowed to complain that my product has flaws. If everyone absolutely demands that the word 'clone' be reserved for what the game says is a clone, then do a find and replace on all everyone's posts to replace 'clone' with 'characters which are too god damned similar' and read everyone's posts that way.webrunner said:
That's like, the least important event as far as co-op goes =( But thanks.Manabanana said:
masterkajo
Member
Do we still don't know what Toon Links FS is? If I came across a Mario when I am playing this game online... he is so gonna pay for that!!Firestorm said:Stupid Mario taking Young Link's final smash
YLink's aerials have definitely changed.
Keru_Shiri
Member
You know, I was going to post how I was disappointed that Wolf made it in instead of Roy or Geno. But then I started watching gameplay footage of Ike, Lucario, Charizard, Ivysaur, and Sonic in action and I said "Wait a minute, this is Smash Bros. motherfucking game of forever, WHAT THE HELL am I complaining about?"
Seriously, except for Amir0x, everybody probably had at least one character they wanted in as playable, and if it wasn't Wolf, it could've been someone worse (imagine if it was Krystal, also with Fox's moveset). Granted, I hope Fox and Falco got nerfed a bit, so they don't dominate the tourney scene, but hell, I'm happy with what we got.
Also, Lucario looks like a lot of fun to play as.
Seriously, except for Amir0x, everybody probably had at least one character they wanted in as playable, and if it wasn't Wolf, it could've been someone worse (imagine if it was Krystal, also with Fox's moveset). Granted, I hope Fox and Falco got nerfed a bit, so they don't dominate the tourney scene, but hell, I'm happy with what we got.
Also, Lucario looks like a lot of fun to play as.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
Actually, outside of Ridley, I'm honestly drawing a blank on characters that actually had a realistic chance of getting into Brawl that didn't make it. I mean, there was never going to be a chance of there being more than two Mother characters and the remainder of my list just consisted of a few third parties (a certain blue robot who fights for everlasting peace, for one), and some minor characters that never had a shot: Bugzzy, Biospark, Kamek, Midna...
GotchaForce
Member
Green Hill Zone vids?
slayn said:
You're the one who said that there wasn't a line between clones and non clones, and I was just informing you that the game specifies one quite clearly.
Anyway, regarding the whole clone thing: look at TLink's new aerial down A. Functionally, it's more of a clone of Kirby's stone then it is of regular Link's aerial down A.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Perhaps Krystal and Geno, due to their poll placements, and maybe Midna. Also any melee character that was cut. But yeah, everyone else was either a bit player, or a third party character. We damn near got 'em all.Iam Canadian said:
webrunner said:
Look. If move behaviour is what we used to determine clonage, then no character is a clone. YLink is a clone of Link because most of their moves share the same visual effect. People do not play the characters they call clones half the time. They just see them and go "lol clone they must be the same".
Anyway, I need someone to use more of YLinks aerials.
coreycubed
Neo Member
webrunner said:
Is that it?
from what I've seen, all the clones (Wolf + Fox, Ness and Lucas) have at least as many differences between as Mario and Luigi had in Melee, and they were certainly NOT clones of each other.Keru_Shiri said:
Even if you are EXTREMELY strict with the clone definition, and count Luigi as a Mario Clone, Ganondorf as a Falcon clone, Falco and Wolf as Fox clones, Ike as a Marth clone, Ness as a Lucas clone (or lucas as a ness clone), and toon link as a link clone, there is still about a 50% increase in non-clone characters in Brawl over Melee's non-clone character count.
Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Marth, G&W, Diddy Kong, Zelda, Sheik, Metaknight, Pit, PKMN Trainer (nevermind the fact that he's really 3 characters), Snake, Peach, Yoshi, Ice Climbers, DeDeDe, Lucario, Ness, Sonic, Bowser, Wario, ROB, Olimar, Falcon, Jigglypuff.
I count 30 non-clone characters (32 if instead of counting Pokemon Trainer as 1 character, you count him as 3 characters: Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur). 39 characters total including the clones of Falco, Wolf, Ganondorf, Ike, Luigi, Lucas, and Toon Link (and probably only 2 or 3 of them, if even that, are "clones" in the Melee sense. Most of them have quite a few move differences).
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
Keru_Shiri said:
I'm actually very happy we didn't get Krystal. But that's all I'm going to say on the subject because I don't want to start a Krystal argument. We just had a "Sakurai is lazy" argument and now we're in a clones argument, so this thread is already in enough disarray.
Firestorm said:
Here's how I see it: A given move has various parts to it:
1) Visuals (this is the animation used. Warlock Punch does not have a flaming falcon attached to it, so it does have different visuals, but only minorly so)
2) hitboxes (where on the attack it hits.. in terms of the new Psi Magnet moves, Ness's is a full bubble and Lucas only goes in front)
3) movement (arcs and whatnot. EG: Mario and Luigi's jump punches go in different directions) In terms of actual gameplay, Movement is the biggest determination of whether a move is the same move as another move.
4) speed (both in wind-up and actual movement)
5) Power (What might be a killing move for one character, may be a damage move for a clone)
6) Details (Marth's and Roy's differeing sweet spots)
Most moves that clones have (defined here by the recessed portrait) have very similar Visuals, Hitboxes, Movement. Where they differed was usually speed, power, and in the details.
But, it looks like the 'clones' in Brawl have:
a) more different visuals (completely redone animations in some cases, even if they're doing the same 'move')
b) much different hit boxes (TLink, for instance, has somewhat strange anatomy and a much shorter sword. Plus, there's stuff like the above Psi Magnet example)
c) Different movement. TLink's down A stops all forward movement and goes straight down. Link's follows the trajectory you were already going (given that you would be fast-falling anyway since you had to press down to do the move)
d) Different speed, power, and details, as previous clones.
Basically everything i've seen (aside from the Landmaster Trio), suggests that any situation where it was the "same" in some respect, is now only "similar", or in some cases (Dorf's up-b), "Completely different"
I don't disagree that a full moveset is better, but people are treating the 'clone' news like we have a roster of Roys and Pichus and Doctor Marios which isn't the case at all.
Keru_Shiri
Member
GaimeGuy said:
I'm not going to argue, in face I agree 100%. Hell, I LIKE clones. But I really don't see how this addresses my post.
flipping_heck
Member
:lol :lol seems like every SSBB board is mad about the Landmaster clones!
Keru_Shiri said:
As long as Waveshining and that infinite grab thing are gone, then at least they won't be responsible for banning every stage with a wall or a walk-off-edge
And if most characters have a way of catching up with them somehow without items, then stages with circles won't be banned either.
I noticed Summit seems to have a circle, so it got me concerned
Christopher
Member
Bluemercury
Member
Avrum said:
LOL at wario bike, i laugh loudly after seeing that bike being throwed around....:lol
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
Geez. Someone drops the word "clone" and the entire thread becomes a full-fledged debate.
It's nice to see that the spirit of the Dojo thread lives on.
Anyway, while watching the videos of the boss fights (Rayquaza and Pokey), I've been wondering what the difficulty is set to in these videos. It seems like the "border" of the stage is set really far outside the scrolling zone in these boss areas, particularly in the Pokey one. In the Pokey video, I saw Lucas get knocked pretty far out of the scrolling area without dying. It just seemed odd, since the border appears to be set farther out than any of the borders in the Melee stages. I hope this doesn't nerf the difficulty of the bosses too much.
It's nice to see that the spirit of the Dojo thread lives on.
Anyway, while watching the videos of the boss fights (Rayquaza and Pokey), I've been wondering what the difficulty is set to in these videos. It seems like the "border" of the stage is set really far outside the scrolling zone in these boss areas, particularly in the Pokey one. In the Pokey video, I saw Lucas get knocked pretty far out of the scrolling area without dying. It just seemed odd, since the border appears to be set farther out than any of the borders in the Melee stages. I hope this doesn't nerf the difficulty of the bosses too much.
List of stages
1. Delfino Plaza
2. Mushroomy Kingdom
3. Mario Bros.
4. Luigi's Mansion
5. Rainbow Cruise
6. Mario Circuit
7. Bridge of Eldin
8. Tetra's Ship
9. Hyrule Temple
10. Port Town
11. Big Blue
12. Rumble Falls
13. Warioware
14. Yoshi's Island
15. Yoshi's Island (Melee)
16. Smashville
17. Battlefield
18. Final Destination
19. Onett
20. New Pork City
21. Skyworld
22. Distant Planet
23. Pictochat
24. Electroplankton
25. Corneria
26. Lylat Cruise
27. Green Hill Zone
28. Shadow Moses Island
29. Castle Seige
30. Brinstar
31. Norfair
32. Frigate Orpheon
33. Pokemon Stadium 2
34. Spear Pillar
35. Battleship Halberd
36. The Summit
36 so far I think
1. Delfino Plaza
2. Mushroomy Kingdom
3. Mario Bros.
4. Luigi's Mansion
5. Rainbow Cruise
6. Mario Circuit
7. Bridge of Eldin
8. Tetra's Ship
9. Hyrule Temple
10. Port Town
11. Big Blue
12. Rumble Falls
13. Warioware
14. Yoshi's Island
15. Yoshi's Island (Melee)
16. Smashville
17. Battlefield
18. Final Destination
19. Onett
20. New Pork City
21. Skyworld
22. Distant Planet
23. Pictochat
24. Electroplankton
25. Corneria
26. Lylat Cruise
27. Green Hill Zone
28. Shadow Moses Island
29. Castle Seige
30. Brinstar
31. Norfair
32. Frigate Orpheon
33. Pokemon Stadium 2
34. Spear Pillar
35. Battleship Halberd
36. The Summit
36 so far I think
Keru_Shiri
Member
Personally, I don't think shining by itself should be damaging at all, and strictly a defensive move/projectile reflection. That, and maybe Falco's d+air could be scaled back a bit.webrunner said:
I'm wondering where Pokemon Stadium 1 is--why nobody's found it yet--considering that they needn't have changed the name if they just got rid of it. Edit: The name of Pokemon Stadium 2, I mean.
Probably the same people who thought Samus and Captain Falcon were clones in SSB64 because they had the same up tilt and neutral air.Crushed said:
There weren't any people like that. I HOPE.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
It's a nice stage list, but six Mario stages is a bit excessive.
I wouldn't have complained if they excised Mario Bros. and Rainbow Cruise.
I wouldn't have complained if they excised Mario Bros. and Rainbow Cruise.
Keru_Shiri
Member
*drools at stage builder vid
*drools again at music
*drools again at music
JonathanEx
Member
Just a note, the music is the stuff from the .rar: nothing not posted in here before, sadly.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
HK-47 said:
Eh...I wasn't really a fan of Brinstar Depths. I mean, Kraid was cool, but the actual level design just irritated the ever-living heck out of me.
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