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[striferser]

Can't agree with this ban since i know several woman who wear burqa on their own choice

Anyone supporting this should read this article:

Burqa ban five years on - 'We created a monster'

That's an eye opener and need to be read by everyone supporting burqa banm

 

[FDC1]

Can't agree with this ban since i know several woman who wear burqa on their own choice

That's an eye opener and need to be read by everyone supporting burqa banm

The "on their own choice" argument has very little relevance. Plenty of illegal stuffs are done by people on their own choice, we still forbid them. The question is if wearing burkas is harmful (for women rights reasons, for security reasons, etc...) or not for the well-being of the society.

 

[patapuf]

I agree. Just banning isn't helping anyone. Education and easily accessible and free help for women with abusive husbands are the way to go. But apparently quite some here are in favour of solving the problem by putting it somewhere we can't see it.

These things exist. Lack of help for women with abusive husbands is not a problem. Lack of language courses are not a problem. The problem is if these women are indeed in a bad situation, how do you get that help to them? how do you get them to even consider it when they can barely say hello on the phone?

Banning burqas doesn't solve anything. But it's not a problem you solve just by having infrastructure in place.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

what if its cold outside???

 

[Chariot]

These things exist. Lack of help for women with abusive husbands is not a problem. Lack of language courses are not a problem. The problem is if these women are indeed in a bad situation, how do you get that help to them? how do you get them to even consider it when they can barely say hello on the phone?

Banning burqas doesn't solve anything. But it's not a problem you solve just by having infrastructure in place.

Encourage them in coming or calling. Hell, why not make some mandatory friendship meetings for all immigrants where they meet with immigrants from other cultures and counsellors. Just a little fun time with cookies, talk and maybe a movie. Counsellors can then establish a social connection and maybe see if there are troubled people and approach them if needed. You can add native swiss volunteers and christian church members into the mix. Could help with integration and with the location of people with any kind of problems.

Encourage people. Give them friendliness and welcome. Make clear that they can talk about their problems any time and that they will be helped. Banning burka is shutting them out. Show them that they are not welcome. Would you give secrets to a system that forbids you to wear something you feel you want or need to wear?

 

[Kill Your Masters]

On the topic of abusive and opressive partners in Switzerland:

Alcohol plays a role in many cases of domestic violence in Switzerland. Almost every second woman who is subject to abuse says that alcohol consumption is a problem in her relationship, according to a study.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/harmful-correlation_alcohol-abuse-linked-to-domestic-violence/35887680

So, alcohol ban should be next then...right?

 

[boiled goose]

Let's be pro woman by fining them!

 

[FDC1]

On the topic of abusive and opressive partners in Switzerland:



http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/harmful-correlation_alcohol-abuse-linked-to-domestic-violence/35887680

So, alcohol ban should be next then...right?

Can't we just debate on the subject without the use of false equivalencies? Thanks.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Who the fuck spoke of all muslims. Not all muslims women wear burqas all the time in public.

It is a worrying symptom of oppression, and while it should not be banned, it is disgusting to just brush it off as "oh it's just a choice".

Well that's what you were implying was it not? You're first comment to me made no distinction and felt like ANY woman who chose not to wear the burqa was putting their life on the line - I made a specific distinction that yes it might but only if you happen to live in an extremist Islamic country

On your second line, you say not to brush it off as saying "its a choice" yet you're very willing to bring oppression up when you have many interviews with these women about why they wear it.

Like it or not, It is a choice, and yes for those that don't believe in the garb or the religion it is also a tool of oppression.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

This is a flase flag to unmask ninjas, but the joke is on them, for a real ninja is never seen, only felt, from behind.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Can't we just debate on the subject without the use of false equivalencies? Thanks.

The subject is oppressed women. (as anti burqa argument)

 

[hodgy100]

Can't we just debate on the subject without the use of false equivalencies? Thanks.

How is it a false equivalence?

 

[GTS300Coupe]

I'm indifferent about this subject but I will say that I believe every country has the right to say and do what they believe is in their best interests.

 

[Chariot]

I'm indifferent about this subject but I will say that I believe every country has the right to say and do what they believe is in their best interests.

Working out superbly for North Korea. Of course countries can do what they want, but that shouldn't stop us fron critizing.

 

[KingSnake]

The subject is oppressed women. (as anti burqa argument)

There's nowhere stated that the law was made to help oppressed women. I don't understand why is this discussed.

In the article in the OP is very clearly stated what was the reason:

Giorgio Ghiringhelli, who drew up the proposal, said the result sent a message to "Islamist fundamentalists" in the country.

He added: "Those who want to integrate are welcome irrespective of their religion.

"But those who rebuff our values and aim to build a parallel society based on religious laws, and want to place it over our society, are not welcome."

And I commented earlier that this happens because burqa is associated with Sharia and Islamic extremism in the perception of a lot of people here in Europe.

Working out superbly for North Korea. Of course countries can do what they want, but that shouldn't stop us fron critizing.

I wouldn't compare North Korea with a referendum, though. In the end there is no better expression for democracy than a referendum. Even when the results are questionable, there's not better representation of the society than a referendum.

 

[y2dvd]

I never understood the argument of "hey there's a problem here also, so it's hypocritical to address this." It's like saying if we can't fix all problems, why try solving any at all.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Anyone supporting this should read this article:

Burqa ban five years on - 'We created a monster'

Thanks for posting this.

 

[Tertullian]

and that's a good thing. religion already has special treatment in places it shouldn't. things like tax exceptions, special rules and so on. religion should be treated no different from any hobby or other recreational activity from a legal point of view.

Churches aren't tax exempt specifically because they're religious. They're tax-exempt because they're charitable organizations that are good for society. A massive portion of the private charity performed throughout the world, both now and throughout history, is performed by churches (and equivalents). Nevertheless, to exempt other organizations dedicated for the public good rather than to profit, yet tax churches, would be a low-level form of religious persecution.

The idea that religious people need no more protection than football fans or knitting enthusiasts is horrifying and historically ignorant, given the massive amount of religious persecution that has gone on throughout history, bot from other religious people and (especially in the 20th century) from secular states.

But thank you for demonstrating my point so effectively. Most 21st century liberals still pretend to support freedom of religion; at least you're honest.

 

[Skinpop]

But thank you for demonstrating my point so effectively. Most 21st century liberals still pretend to support freedom of religion; at least you're honest.

I support freedom of religion in that I support free thought. you cant have the latter if you ban the former. I do however not support the notion that our society should bureaucratically support(and enable) various religious practices.

 

[MrHoot]

On the topic of abusive and opressive partners in Switzerland:



http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/harmful-correlation_alcohol-abuse-linked-to-domestic-violence/35887680

So, alcohol ban should be next then...right?

Funny you mention that as there's been some form of prevention against alcohol. Not a total ban of course, but it's now illegal to buy/sell beer past 7pm regardless of your age because there were too many cases of drunken youth (especially during the week ends)