Honestly, XII has the kind of story people tried to argue XV does at launch. It's straightforward and concise.
He's 3/3 on terrible games. 3rd Birthday, Type-0 and XV.
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Tabata: "Fans playing FF15 w/o watching the movie might miss crucial story details"
- Thread starter Ydelnae
- Start date
Honestly, XII has the kind of story people tried to argue XV does at launch. It's straightforward and concise.
He's 3/3 on terrible games. 3rd Birthday, Type-0 and XV.
Honestly they're both terrible but we all got our biases.
It's been almost a year since this game has come out. This whole back and forth is kind of tiring and petty at this point from both sides.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
Please no. 170GB is enough.
I don't think Type-0 is terrible - it's a mobile spinoff. If it were a mainline title, yes, it'd be an enormous disappointment, but it's not. If I Am Setsuna was FFXV, we'd be scratching our heads, but it's not. There has to be different expectations for different platforms and different projects. It may actually be Tabata's best designed game, as unfortunate as that sounds. Its peers in the FF spinoff space include titles such as Dirge of Cerberus, so that's about where expectations should begin.
I watched the movie before playing it and still had no idea what was going on.
The film at least explains who Luna and Regis are. But I still never really understood who Noctis's pals were. Beat the game and was left with questions and frustration. Really wanted to experience
The film at least explains who Luna and Regis are. But I still never really understood who Noctis's pals were. Beat the game and was left with questions and frustration. Really wanted to experience
the world of ruin
LiquidSolid
Member
Nah, they're two completely different issues. FFXV is an incoherent mess because Tabata can't tell a story to save his life, as he's proven with every game he's directed. Whereas KH is a convoluted mess, because Nomura took the decent, simple story from KH1 and then continued to add more and more crap on top of that. Of the two, I'd take KH any day of the week though.
I don't mean to blow your mind or anything, but there are great games on mobile. Type-0's platform doesn't absolve Tabata of it's low quality as a game in general.
I mean, if they subscribed to your thinking themselves, they wouldn't have put it on consoles and Steam.
O.v.e.rlord
Banned
Like how pple in the fucking movie can use magic without fucking mining for it. Yeah. I guess so.
I'm here.
Yeah, pretty much.
Didn't play 3rd Birthday or Type-0 yet, but I really like Crisis Core.
It's really telling though that every single game he's directed has been a "make something out of this thing Nomura and Nojima came up with" situation. I really hope his next game is something his team is more passionate about.
I had a friend whom I was talking about FFXV with while I was playing it, who insisted that if I watched the movie I would like the game more. My only response was that if it was important to the games story why weren't at least parts of these things included in the main game.
If it's essential to the story it should be in the main game.
If it's essential to the story it should be in the main game.
They put Mobius on Steam, so they've ported worse.
witchedwiz
Member
I would rephrase as..
"People not reading faqs or similar will miss small details as our storytelling went apeshit and forgot to bring in the game something we said we would.."
E.g prompts father identity information remains only in the form of the official guidebook....
Nevertheless..
I hope that SE next big project that isn't a remake doesn't get soooooo much butchered from the original reveals..
Thea Lunt of stuff that was scrapped in ffxv was staggering..
"People not reading faqs or similar will miss small details as our storytelling went apeshit and forgot to bring in the game something we said we would.."
E.g prompts father identity information remains only in the form of the official guidebook....
Nevertheless..
I hope that SE next big project that isn't a remake doesn't get soooooo much butchered from the original reveals..
Thea Lunt of stuff that was scrapped in ffxv was staggering..
Human Trashcan
Banned
Before they come out: "No it's fine you don't have to watch it but you can!"
After it comes out and everyone agrees the game's storytelling is awful: "Should've watched the movie bro"
I see you Tabata
After it comes out and everyone agrees the game's storytelling is awful: "Should've watched the movie bro"
I see you Tabata
100%TrophyMaster
Member
The story fell apart in the second half. There was so much cool potential with the world of ruin. Also you shouldn't have to watch a movie separate from the game to know what's going on SE.
I remember asking my roomate whose copy I played if some of the early stuff in the game would feel less confusing and out of nowhere if I watched the movie and anime and thank god he said that while yes, they were a waste of time. Dodged two bullets there.
Don't know about Type 0, but there's Crisis Core too.
3rd Birthday and Crisis Core were the worst games published by SE I ever played for a long time, and now I add XV to that list and only recently found out this guy directed 3B lol.
The guy has an abysmal track record for someone who's worked on a mainline game, which had me super confused when people were legitimately hopeful that he'd be up to the task lol, he's not the best director all right.
Don't know about Type 0, but there's Crisis Core too.
3rd Birthday and Crisis Core were the worst games published by SE I ever played for a long time, and now I add XV to that list and only recently found out this guy directed 3B lol.
The guy has an abysmal track record for someone who's worked on a mainline game, which had me super confused when people were legitimately hopeful that he'd be up to the task lol, he's not the best director all right.
AdmiralSnackbar
Member
I watched the movie after the game and it retroactively made everything worse.
Where are these other countries these refugees come from?
This whole war has basically been starship troopers but they switch to normal soldiers once FFXV starts?
Where are these other countries these refugees come from?
This whole war has basically been starship troopers but they switch to normal soldiers once FFXV starts?
Goddamn that is a grim resume. Wow.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I cant even tell if this is sarcasm or not.
X2X0
Member
Annoying, really annoying, it's clear that the movie events should have been put in the game from the start, but was made into a movie for more profit or simply he felt they didn't have time and preferred to go with an open world and little story[tabata should've controlled his urges and made one LATER!]. but really they could have simply made that with no movie to bother making and a bit more time. it could have easily added 20 hours of rich story gameplay and made 15 one hell of a game.
Imp the Dimp
Member
I platinum'd the game and understood pretty much nothing of the plot. I never watched Kingslaive.
I liked the game though.
I liked the game though.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Magic as supplied by the King's power and magic from elemental sources are different things in this world.
I like this analogy .... but I think you're too kind to the game. It's more like a pizza made with the wrong kind of dough ... one that takes too long to cook properly and it's been pulled out of the oven after the usual time cooking has elapsed. So of course it's still kind of gooey and gross but to make up for it , every one of your favorite toppings has been spilled on top whether they go well together or not. As well, just before this under cooked mess gets served, you can get some expired prawns as an appetizer - don't like sea food or dislike getting food poisoning ? too bad , the rotten prawns are required , the gut ache they'll almost immediately leave you with will leave you wanting to fill your gut with just about anything. Problem is the pizza is so bad that you'll pick out the stuff on there you like and eat as much as you can , but at the end you still have to eat some of that undercooked gross ass dough and well, it'll just leave you feeling a bit sick by the time you push your plate away in disgust.
Later on , a half decent plate of sliders will be served in an attempt to wash out the taste of the shitty pizza but it won't be enough because the 2 flavors won't mix well. Eventually a desert will be served that everyone can share and well, it won't taste too bad but you'll have had your fill long before it comes to your table.
In the end you'll be left wishing that the whole pizza could have been great instead of just some toppings and perhaps even wish that those pretty good sliders were re purposed as more pizza toppings. Above all else you'll really wish the whole thing could have been cooked on the right kind of dough. As well, if there were some way to just not even serve those rotten prawns and just have a good stand alone pizza ....
Ah well, it's not as though this crap restaurant will really learn from these mistakes. They're about to release the long awaited followup dish to a beloved franchise that will probably feel like it's got all the important ingredients but somehow it'll end up undercooked and bland. Then after that we're going to be subjected to a 3 + course meal of mystery that will take way to long to make and probably won't be as good as the baconator we all ate 20 years ago. It would be easier to just make a baconator out of the same ingredients today but , I guess we're stuck with the expensive meal no one really asked for instead...
Lucent
Member
Boom!
Shadow Broker
Banned
This is exactly what I want to say but without all the cursing and vulgar language.
I beat FFXV and at that time that I was playing it I liked it. Looking back on it my feelings changed some because of all the issues the game had but I always had the feeling of "fuck it, let's hope FFXIV is a better game."
Today the IGN article came out about whatever the Switch port is supposed to be and this quote of his and yeah.... I am a long time FF fan. I had every intention of buying a Switch port if it was released but now I doubt I'll buy FFXIV when it's released in like 15 years or an eventual Switch port.
BasilZero
Member
Reference to the
games' main characters?
I swear in every game Tabata made,
all the player characters die
xD
matrix-cat
Member
I watched Kingsglaive and it honestly only made me more confused. All the characters had different faces and voice actors, and Ravus
, so I thought it was an alternate universe or something.
This is legitimately better and more heartfelt than anything in FFXV proper
clearly died in the movie
This is legitimately better and more heartfelt than anything in FFXV proper
Tabata is like poisonous, horrible death to plot and story. He cuts it all up in the sake of "pacing" and gameplay and the game just ends up as a ghost of what it could have been. I haven't played any other games he has directed, but from what I've read of other people's thoughts on his attitude towards game directing, this seems pervasive to the way he works. And obviously, as a gamer that gets a huge part of my enjoyment from plot, lore and well developed characters, FFXV doesn't satisfy, well far from it.
I sincerely hope he won't get to direct any other mainline Final Fantasy, which has historically been a bastion IP for riveting plot, lore and characters. What a sad waste of immense potential this game was.
Edit: Actually, I have played one other game he directed which was Crisis Core. And apart from the gameplay which I remember enjoying, the whole story felt like unnecessary non-sense. Can someone please drown Genesis? Thanks.
I sincerely hope he won't get to direct any other mainline Final Fantasy, which has historically been a bastion IP for riveting plot, lore and characters. What a sad waste of immense potential this game was.
Edit: Actually, I have played one other game he directed which was Crisis Core. And apart from the gameplay which I remember enjoying, the whole story felt like unnecessary non-sense. Can someone please drown Genesis? Thanks.
cj_iwakura
Member
Still better than XV, and I say this as a fan.
Why would it be sarcasm? Those games are awful.
AdmiralSnackbar
Member
I watched Kingsglaive and it honestly only made me more confused. All the characters had different faces and voice actors, and Ravus, so I thought it was an alternate universe or something.clearly died in the movie
This is legitimately better and more heartfelt than anything in FFXV proper
Ravus lived because his arm was cut off.
Supposed to explain why he has a robot arm in the game.
Also he has a robot arm if you didn't notice it in the one 30 second cutscenes he was in the game.
I got so tired of being told "didn't you watch the movie?" when I was asking people about story details I was confused by. Terrible storytelling in the base game. I'm all for narratives and worlds being enriched through transmedia storytelling, but the core component really needs to function on its own.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
I call bullshit on this because it's not true.
GuitarGuruu
Member
You don't say? I do think they should have included some of the scenes from the movie into the main game. You don't even understand the beginning of the game without watching the movie, it makes no sense why they required people to dive into multiple forms of media just to understand the whole story of the title.
I understood the beginning of the game perfectly fine without watching the movie,
Yabberwocky
Member
Kingsglaive has crucial story details, but I think Brotherhood is what packs the biggest emotional punch and has the most character development. Noctis and his father, Prompto's pushing himself due to Noctis, Gladio's initial resentment towards Noctis, Ignis' episode highlighting the dynamic between Ignis and Noctis whilst showing that Noctis isn't in a good place emotionally due to fear and grief re: losing his father.
There was so much fantastic potential there, and it was all completely squandered. Regis' and Noctis' relationship alone, man. Just completely wasted and glossed over in FFXV.
...even in Brotherhood, Luna's episode... was a thing. Poor Luna is still paper thin even in the tie-in anime episode.
I'm still headscratching and completely frustrated that the the tie-in anime felt better written with stronger character arcs than the main game. It's usually the opposite.
still not over this
There was so much fantastic potential there, and it was all completely squandered. Regis' and Noctis' relationship alone, man. Just completely wasted and glossed over in FFXV.
...even in Brotherhood, Luna's episode... was a thing. Poor Luna is still paper thin even in the tie-in anime episode.
I'm still headscratching and completely frustrated that the the tie-in anime felt better written with stronger character arcs than the main game. It's usually the opposite.
still not over this
Type-0's scenario came from Tabata, and it's basically a blueprint for every mistake made in FFXV. I don't think this excuse flies at all.
I've played four of his games now (Crisis Core, 3rd Birthday, Type-0, and FFXV), and I've hated three, while thinking the last was just okay (Crisis Core). The gameplay is always shallow, and the story tends to suck :/
But it's still part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis. Of course as the director he has a huge level of creative control, but it's hard to imagine a bunch of spinoffs and a reboot from a Nomura project are "passion projects" of his. He even talked about how he had to force himself to like Noctis, because at first he just didn't like him at all.
Sure, he lacks a lot in storytelling, but working on something brand new, with no ties to anyone else's work, he would be able to focus on the kinds of things he enjoys the most.
When you take FFXV and its narrative, the best parts, or at least what I consider to be the best parts, are the calm moments of interaction between the main cast, the road trip aspect, as well as some of the world's lore. But it was all poorly executed and explored through the main plot, which was composed by remnants of the Versus project.
I'm not saying he has no fault in the games' shortcomings, or that a better director wouldn't deliver better games, but when I play his games, or at least the ones I did play, I don't see someone who should never be allowed to work on another game, I see a lot of misplaced potential. If he sucks at telling epic stories through well directed cutscenes, maybe we'd have a better story if he didn't even try. But he can't do that, because it's Final Fantasy, because it's specifically the reboot of the Final Fantasy Versus XIII project. I do think a more intimate story about these four friends and their camaraderie at the front, while you explore more of the world's history through gameplay, would make for a much more compelling and fulfilling story than having this epic plot involving astrals, ancient bloodlines and kingdoms with such a poor presentation.
Even on the management side of things, judging by all the interviews, he seems to be very good at managing his team and resources. Parntering him with Nomura as they did in the early XV days could actually have been a brilliant choice. Too bad they took Nomura out shortly after to work on VII Remake. Putting people to do what they do best is something that some times I wonder if wouldn't drastically improve the quality of their titles. Toriyama's stories are also... weird, but the man can certainly direct a cutscene. He's great at it! Why not let him focus on this kind of thing, instead of letting him create his stories and be in charge of game design? I don't get it.
Absolutely clueless as to how to tell a fucking story. Ridiculous.
Fortunately for me I did watch Kingsglaive. Frankly it was infinitely better than FFXV as a story. But the way they integrated it into FFXV was pathetic, and made it feel like they were making it up as they went along. Of course, then I was told I had missed out on characterisation by not watching the short with Noctis and his bros before they set out. I hadn't even known that existed.
It doesn't matter anyway, a game costing 70 euro should be a self-contained story to begin with. "You need to see this movie / read this book first" is nonsense.
Fortunately for me I did watch Kingsglaive. Frankly it was infinitely better than FFXV as a story. But the way they integrated it into FFXV was pathetic, and made it feel like they were making it up as they went along. Of course, then I was told I had missed out on characterisation by not watching the short with Noctis and his bros before they set out. I hadn't even known that existed.
It doesn't matter anyway, a game costing 70 euro should be a self-contained story to begin with. "You need to see this movie / read this book first" is nonsense.
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