Support NeoGAF

[Stiflers Mom]

Well, why would I want to take medicine if I can have the same fun without VR.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

VR isn’t the future. It’s a small part of the future, but the large majority of games do not benefit at all form VR, and would probably be worse in VR.

Just like 3D gaming, it’s a niche that is being pushed way too early.

AR has a much bigger future than VR, because it’s much more useful outside of gaming.

A lot of this is misconceived.

Most game genres benefit from VR. FPS, Racing, Horror, Platformer, Stealth, Puzzle, RTS, Simulation, RPGs, all multiplayer genres - tons of genres.

Heck, VR can even bring back dead genres/game concepts like light-guns or DDR machines by recreating them virtually. I plan to own a large private virtual arcade in the future.

AR might have a bigger future, but VR is also extremely useful outside gaming - certainly as much as personal computing is. AR/VR are going to converge into the same device anyway and people will pick and choose or blend between them as the need arises.

Flying and racing sure, but fighting, FPS, 3D action adventure, side scrollers, sports, etc don’t really benefit at all.

Alyx is the highest rated FPS game of the last decade. Don't be silly.

Echo Arena is also the first virtual sport; literally a sport that is virtual.

And Action adventure is almost VR's bread and butter.

 

[Romulus]

Flying and racing sure, but fighting, FPS, 3D action adventure, side scrollers, sports, etc don’t really benefit at all.

Hard disagree on FPS and action-adventure. I've had experience there. Platforming is also superior because you can judge distances better. I have not tried the other genres to know, but I wager some side scroller would be great and sports. Not seeing "most" genres don't benefit. I would give you a third at the absolute most.

 

[MrFunSocks]

FPS doesn't benefit VR? Are you on crack? It takes the first person genre to a whole new level.

It's different in VR, but games like Titanfall, Halo, etc would be much worse in VR.

A lot of this is misconceived.

Most game genres benefit from VR. FPS, Racing, Horror, Platformer, Stealth, Puzzle, RTS, Simulation, RPGs, all multiplayer genres - tons of genres.

Heck, VR can even bring back dead genres/game concepts like light-guns or DDR machines by recreating them virtually. I plan to own a large private virtual arcade in the future.

AR might have a bigger future, but VR is also extremely useful outside gaming - certainly as much as personal computing is. AR/VR are going to converge into the same device anyway and people will pick and choose or blend between them as the need arises.

Alyx is the highest rated FPS game of the last decade. Don't be silly.

Echo Arena is also the first virtual sport; literally a sport that is virtual.

And Action adventure is almost VR's bread and butter.

Ratings don't mean anything to me. I've had more fun with metacritic 60 games than with ones rated 90+. Reviews are all politics and partnerships these days.

With VR while genres can benefit in some ways, there are drawbacks to get those benefits, and they don't outweigh them. FPS games where you have to run around? Nope, non VR is better. RPGs? How would diablo benefit from VR for example? RTS? How would C&C benefit from VR? All multiplayer genres? How exactly?

Simulation? What do you mean by simulation?

 

[sendit]

It's different in VR, but games like Titanfall, Halo, etc would be much worse in VR.

If you’re talking about 1:1 port, then I agree.

The game obviously has to be developed first for VR. Half Life Alyx is a great example of this.

 

[MrFunSocks]

If you’re talking about 1:1 port, then I agree.

The game obviously has to be developed first for VR. Half Life Alyx is a great example of this.

But even developed first for VR it puts massive restrictions on what you can do because of VR.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

It's different in VR, but games like Titanfall, Halo, etc would be much worse in VR.

Titanfall's mechs would be immediately better in VR. They'd have to figure out a good way to do locomotion though. Stride shows you can do wall running just fine, so it's not like it's impossible.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Titanfall's mechs would be immediately better in VR. They'd have to figure out a good way to do locomotion though. Stride shows you can do wall running just fine, so it's not like it's impossible.

And the bolded is the problem. Auto running, teleporting, having to physically move around etc limits how games can be designed.

The mechs would look cooler in VR, but again, movement and pretty much everything else other than POV is worse.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

But even developed first for VR it puts massive restrictions on what you can do because of VR.

It's the other way around. Non-VR is the more restricting of the two.

That Boneworks video is a perfect example. It's far more boundless in player mechanics and control than any FPS game to date.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

And the bolded is the problem. Auto running, teleporting, having to physically move around etc limits how games can be designed.

The mechs would look cooler in VR, but again, movement and pretty much everything else other than POV is worse.

You ignored the video I see. It has no auto-movement or teleporting or room-scale movement.

 

[V4skunk]

VR isn't the future.
It burns your eyes out with prolonged usage.

 

[Rac3r]

Weird flex but ok

 

[MrFunSocks]

You ignored the video I see. It has no auto-movement or teleporting or room-scale movement.

So you need a huge room to run around in, and then what happens when you get to the end of that room/designated space? Again, that's a huge limitation. Gaming is never going to be mainly get up and run around, people just don't want that. They want to sit on their lounge and play.

The movement in that still has nothing on something like Halo 5.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

So you need a huge room to run around in, and then what happens when you get to the end of that room/designated space? Again, that's a huge limitation. Gaming is never going to be mainly get up and run around, people just don't want that. They want to sit on their lounge and play.

The movement in that still has nothing on something like Halo 5.

I just said you don't need a room to play in. You sit or stand in one spot. That's how VR games typically work.

I can tell you haven't tried VR much at all before.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

VR isn't the future.
It burns your eyes out with prolonged usage.

And I'm guessing you thought 5G towers are the cause of the virus, right?

Please. VR will be seen as healthier on the eye than any other display once varifocal displays are used in a few years. You can't argue with hard science.

 

[Dolomite]

Don't see VR becoming mainstream until the size of the actual hardware is palatable. The experience is fun. The experience of watching someone using it is priceless

 

[V4skunk]

And I'm guessing you thought 5G towers are the cause of the virus, right?

Please. VR will be seen as healthier on the eye than any other display once varifocal displays are used in a few years. You can't argue with hard science.

The hard science is that blue led light permanently destroys your eyes.
5g is none ionising radiation but you are low iq and don't know the facts and remember to keep your mask on that you can smell your own fart through like a good sheep. Idiot.

 

[MrFunSocks]

I just said you don't need a room to play in. You sit or stand in one spot. That's how VR games typically work.

I can tell you haven't tried VR much at all before.

Sorry I misunderstood what you said as meaning that since it has no auto movement etc that you must be physically moving around. So it's just controller movement? I know that VR games typically involve just point and teleport or controller, and that's what I'm saying is one of the big limitations of them.

Please. VR will be seen as healthier on the eye than any other display once varifocal displays are used in a few years. You can't argue with hard science.

How will it be healthier on the eye than watching a TV from 2m away?

 

[DarthBuzzer]

The hard science is that blue led light permanently destroys your eyes.
5g is none ionising radiation but you are low iq and don't know the facts and remember to keep your mask on that you can smell your own fart through like a good sheep. Idiot.

Blue light that is barely any worse than regular displays and can be filtered.

Low IQ? I mean, believe that if you want, but I've clearly been laying a lot of the facts in this thread against people who can't explain their false points properly.

And if I may enquire, you seem to be anti-mask right? If so, you've just outed yourself as the simpleton of this thread. Anti-maskers are up there with flat-earthers.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

Sorry I misunderstood what you said as meaning that since it has no auto movement etc that you must be physically moving around. So it's just controller movement? I know that VR games typically involve just point and teleport or controller, and that's what I'm saying is one of the big limitations of them.

Teleporting isn't the norm anymore. It was in the past, but now it's just a secondary option if the game includes it.

Controller movement is how traditional gaming works - the downside in VR is potential sickness, but that's where comfort options and future anti-sickness advancements come in.

 

[Romulus]

But even developed first for VR it puts massive restrictions on what you can do because of VR.

I used to think that but I don't anymore.

Another argument not mentioned. VR can be played with a controller, all the same inputs as non VR, but you get life sized scale and depth perception as a bonus, no negatives.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

How will it be healthier on the eye than watching a TV from 2m away?

Because your eyes will naturally shift focus. Apart from blue light, a virtual forest and a real forest will be just as comfortable for your eyes.

Ergo: It will never cause eye strain or headaches unlike TVs where your eyes are always focused on the TV panel.

The only way it will cause these issues is if you recreate the same conditions as reality. IE: If you stare at a virtual TV for too long.

 

[V4skunk]

Blue light that is barely any worse than regular displays and can be filtered.

Low IQ? I mean, believe that if you want, but I've clearly been laying a lot of the facts in this thread against people who can't explain their false points properly.

And if I may enquire, you seem to be anti-mask right? If so, you've just outed yourself as the simpleton of this thread. Anti-maskers are up there with flat-earthers.

Blue led light is the most damaging light there is.
Again you really know fuck all so stfu.
You are brainwashed by the TV programming and are too stupid to research the facts.

 

[Texas Pride]

VR won't take off until you get the porn industry into it and on a mainstream VR device with a low cost of entry.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

Blue led light is the most damaging light there is.
Again you really know fuck all so stfu.
You are brainwashed by the TV programming and are too stupid to research the facts.

Yep, we've found our resident flat-earther guys. The irony of a brainwashed individual thinking others are brainwashed.

I barely watch TV, and I don't even use mainstream media for news; I rely entirely on scientific papers, studies, people who report those, and a little thing called logic that is solely missing from this thread.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

My issue with it is it all seems like a bit of a faff. I really couldn’t see myself bothering with making the space, and the helmet, and the wires, and shutting out the world entirely while I play.

I’ve tried it, it’s pretty cool, but it’s not worth the extra effort imo. I’m happy with gaming like a muggle.

Sit down, pick up a pad, click “go”, done.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

My issue with it is it all seems like a bit of a faff. I really couldn’t see myself bothering with making the space, and the helmet, and the wires, and shutting out the world entirely while I play.

I’ve tried it, it’s pretty cool, but it’s not worth the extra effort imo. I’m happy with gaming like a muggle.

Sit down, pick up a pad, click “go”, done.

Imagine it's 2030. You wake up, put on your AR glasses, walk the dog and your virtual pikachu in a meadow of endless flowers which is actually just your dull local field area. You get back home and feel like gaming.

A portal perpetually exists in your gaming area thanks to the AR glasses - it shows a live feed of your virtual house. You simply walk through the portal in real life and suddenly you're in VR as these double as VR glasses. All you had to do was literally walk into your room. You sit on your virtual couch, which is automatically aligned with your real couch. You snap your fingers and get transported to your private IMAX theater that feels as good as the real thing. You play some non-VR games on this 900 inch display that beats any setup possible in reality.

Then you want to play a VR game, so you just continue sitting on your couch and play your VR game like that - and when you reach a calming area in the game, it's more relaxing than it ever could on a 2D display.

See how frictionless the future will be? It will be easier than how you game today even in VR.

 

[Imagine Wagons]

I got both the Oculus Rift and PSVR. Both are collecting dust. I get motion sick in PSVR but not as often in the Rift for some reason.

I don't like that teleportation controls in the games I've played. It just doesn't work the way I think it would with a modern controller.

Also the physical effort it takes to set everything up is too long. Dealing with the sensors is annoying but I hear they have "inside-out" tracking which should fix that.

I think it's still possible for VR to be big especially in a COVID world where I'd be down for going to virtual sportsball games or concerts or something. I think for that to be successful they're going to need to have high refresh rates and resolutions that are almost imperceptible to the user and at a very low cost. No wires.

I'm more bullish on streaming gaming. Project xCloud changed my mind about it. Stadia didn't. Having a buffet if graphically excellent games without doing local processing makes my lazy tendencies satisfied.

 

[Romulus]

VR isn't the future.
It burns your eyes out with prolonged usage.

Maybe its really, really slow? I've been using mine for 4 years, 10+hours per week. And for my job I have to take an eye exam every year. Still perfect vision.

 

[V4skunk]

Maybe its really, really slow? I've been using mine for 4 years, 10+hours per week. And for my job I have to take an eye exam every year. Still perfect vision.

How come fighter and Apache chopper pilots don't use full colour heads up in their helmets? You should know, seeming as though you think you are an expert...

 

[Romulus]

How come fighter and Apache chopper pilots don't use full colour heads up in their helmets? You should know, seeming as though you think you are an expert...

Huh? I'm not claiming to be an expert. I actually didn't even know much about eye damage until you mentioned it. Just mentioned my personal experience. You come off as really aggressive sometimes.

And apparently VR color displays aren't that big at all for the military. Some of the most strict vision requirements in the world and they're using full-color displays.

 

[Birdo]

NOW they can't use it. It is improving every year and it will continue to do so.

There is literally nothing you can do to combat motion sickness with VR. It is caused by the lack of real-world spacial awareness. Which is the very definition and point of VR.

Good lord, VR fans are the fucking Vegans of gaming. I don't care if you enjoy it. Not everyone else does. And that's okay.

 

[Hudo]

Well, weird statement but I am also pretty thankful that I didn't waste any money on GTA Online or RDR Online, so...

 

[Resenge]

There is literally nothing you can do to combat motion sickness with VR. It is caused by the lack of real-world spacial awareness. Which is the very definition and point of VR.

Good lord, VR fans are the fucking Vegans of gaming. I don't care if you enjoy it. Not everyone else does. And that's okay.

Wtf are you talking about, there IS something you can do about VR sickness. People get used to it all the time. The only thing you have said that is correct is not everyone needs to enjoy VR, who the hell here says that everyone has to play VR.

Why do anti VR trolls always use that argument because someone is educating people. No one here is forcing you to play VR they are just defending a hobby they enjoy from missinformation that people like you spread.

 

[Birdo]

No one here is forcing you to play VR they are just defending a hobby they enjoy.

"VR IS THE FUTURE, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT"

And no. For many people, you don't just "Get used" to things that make you motion sick. It's been nearly 30 years, and I still can't play Wolfenstein without getting very ill.

 

[Resenge]

"VR IS THE FUTURE, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT"

And no. For many people, you don't just "Get used" to things that make you motion sick. It's been nearly 30 years, and I still can't play Wolfenstein without getting very ill.

Funny how you didnt quote from someone that but just wrote it as it its fact and not made up by you to bolster your bullshit arguments. Even if one person said it (because I dont speak for everyone unlike you apparently), you have a problem with that one person and not every VR user.

I and the other VR users here must really enjoy having VR sickness every day?

Everyone here, we have another VR expert who says you cannot enjoy VR because you cannot get over VR sickness. Time to throw your headsets away. Wait you dont feel VR sick? that cannot be! Birdo says because he cannot get over VR sickness that means many other people cannot too and that also means we cannot have a VR headset.

 

[Birdo]

I and the other VR users here must really enjoy having VR sickness every day?

Not everyone suffers from motion sickness. Count yourselves very lucky. It sucks.

Just enjoy your VR and let others avoid it in peace.

 

[12Dannu123]

The problem with VR is beyond gaming there's no use of VR that is practical and gaming alone is not a strong value proposition to fork out $400 for. If VR is to become mainstream it needs other sectors.

Microsoft's Hololens probably has more potential than VR at this point, especially because there are a lot more practical use cases for its technology. The reason why computers and Smartphones are considered the mainstream form factors because they have multiple sectors using the devices and have many use cases. VR currently does not.

VR COULD become a common thing in gaming, it's very unlikely to become a mainstream device that everybody should buy. Devices like the Hololens will likely replace VR by that point.

 

[Resenge]

Not everyone suffers from motion sickness. Count yourselves very lucky. It sucks.

Just enjoy your VR and let others avoid it in peace.

I didn't say I dont suffer from VR sickness. I absolutely have and can still do from time to time, especially when I first bought a headset, but I got used to VR and it hardly affects me now. Don't get me wrong, I agree VR sickness is not nice but people get over it. They can and do get used to VR.

You are the one coming into this post and spouting your bullshit, It seems to me that you not only not avoiding it but actively engaging with it. Take your own advice and let people enjoy their VR and you avoid it in peace.

 

[Kerotan]

I look at it like films and TV series. They are different things that both have a future. I hate this shit about there can only be one thing.

 

[John Mullins]

Unprofessional statement from a technology company. Doesn't help their image that they are lazy bottom feeders either.

They should be helping push boundaries for the future as someone in their position. But instead we get this.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

What sets VR apart from gaming, for me, is how it tricks my head.

I had a headset on, playing a low res, poor graphic first person view rollercoaster ride demo, and when i went over the crest of the ride and descended down, my stomach dropped. Why? I know i was sat in a living room playing a game but my body reacted as if it was real.

That's immersion taken to the next level.

On a side note, not all VR games will be screen-games in VR. VR has a lot of potential outside of the modern-day genres. When 2d moved to 3D, the first few waves of games were essentially 2D platformers with a bit of 3D thrown in; Crash, Pandemonium etc. Tomb raider broke the mould and pushed 3D further.

I want to play a point and click adventure (Broken sword vr please) where i'm essentially sat in a theatre, watching the characters on a stage. That would be pretty perfect tbh.

 

[Petaya Berry]

Yep, we've found our resident flat-earther guys. The irony of a brainwashed individual thinking others are brainwashed.

I mean, you once said that is better to go in a VIRTUAL BAR with VIRTUAL FRIENDS through VR than go in a REAL BAR with REAL FRIENDS.
And that was before Covid.

Bold of you to call others "flat-earthers" or "brainwasheds".

I rely entirely on scientific papers, studies, people who report those

Yes, right. Just a look at some of your posts at that hate group and we know that you are lying here.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

There is literally nothing you can do to combat motion sickness with VR. It is caused by the lack of real-world spacial awareness. Which is the very definition and point of VR.

Good lord, VR fans are the fucking Vegans of gaming. I don't care if you enjoy it. Not everyone else does. And that's okay.

In this very thread, I laid out how sickness can be avoided and/or solved for everyone. Stop spreading myths with false science - we already have a anti-masker in here and that's bad enough.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

The problem with VR is beyond gaming there's no use of VR that is practical and gaming alone is not a strong value proposition to fork out $400 for. If VR is to become mainstream it needs other sectors.

Microsoft's Hololens probably has more potential than VR at this point, especially because there are a lot more practical use cases for its technology. The reason why computers and Smartphones are considered the mainstream form factors because they have multiple sectors using the devices and have many use cases. VR currently does not.

VR COULD become a common thing in gaming, it's very unlikely to become a mainstream device that everybody should buy. Devices like the Hololens will likely replace VR by that point.

VR has countless uses outside of gaming. In communication, education, work, all other forms of media, computing, and so on. The value proposition of a VR headset -a least a mature version of VR in 5-10 years will be seen as a bargain. "You're telling me I can buy this $400 headset and it will instantly give me 10 4K monitors? Man this thing is cheap!"

HoloLens is an AR headset - it can't replace a VR headset FYI.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

I mean, you once said that is better to go in a VIRTUAL BAR with VIRTUAL FRIENDS through VR than go in a REAL BAR with REAL FRIENDS.
And that was before Covid.

Bold of you to call others "flat-earthers" or "brainwasheds".

Yes, right. Just a look at some of your posts at that hate group and we know that you are lying here.

I can guarantee you that what I said before was that there are ways in which a virtual bar is better. There is no way I would say a virtual bar is universally better for everyone.

A virtual bar can be attended with barely any friction with friends across the world - and you can all be whatever avatar/body you want and get to trash the place up and do all kinds of things a real bar wouldn't allow or be possible in. That's the benefit.

And if I'm lying, why do I keep reiterating hard science in this thread?

 

[Birdo]

In this very thread, I laid out how sickness can be avoided and/or solved for everyone. Stop spreading myths with false science - we already have a anti-masker in here and that's bad enough.

I've just had a read of your comments in this thread.

You seem emotionally attached to the concept of VR. To the point where you throw insults at people who dislike it.

It's okay for others to dislike something you like. Just accept that it's not for everyone and move on.

 

[Romulus]

What sets VR apart from gaming, for me, is how it tricks my head.

I had a headset on, playing a low res, poor graphic first person view rollercoaster ride demo, and when i went over the crest of the ride and descended down, my stomach dropped. Why? I know i was sat in a living room playing a game but my body reacted as if it was real.

That's immersion taken to the next level.

On a side note, not all VR games will be screen-games in VR. VR has a lot of potential outside of the modern-day genres. When 2d moved to 3D, the first few waves of games were essentially 2D platformers with a bit of 3D thrown in; Crash, Pandemonium etc. Tomb raider broke the mould and pushed 3D further.

I want to play a point and click adventure (Broken sword vr please) where i'm essentially sat in a theatre, watching the characters on a stage. That would be pretty perfect tbh.

My first VR experience was on psvr, and similar. Low resolution, basic controls. But my god, it honestly felt like I was inside a sci fi spacecraft. My brother and I were blown away. Technology finally convinced us of something without smoke and mirrors...on low end hardware.

We went in imagining it as being like 3dtv 2.0 with the screen close to our face. Lol. No.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

I've just had a read of your comments in this thread.

You seem emotionally attached to the concept of VR. To the point where you throw insults at people who dislike it.

It's okay for others to dislike something you like. Just accept that it's not for everyone and move on.

Disliking something is not the problem. Spreading lies and overall primitive thoughts about a technology that they can't begin to understand is the problem.

All the highly negative comments in here are from people who simply don't get it, and they're so far gone that they believe everything they say.

 

[Resenge]

It's okay for others to dislike something you like. Just accept that it's not for everyone and move on.

You keep using this argument, no one is forcing you to comment, no one is forcing anyone to play VR, but you keep pretending that is the problem as you have nothing else to complain about and you just have to keep whining about things that are not actually happening.

Just enjoy your VR and let others avoid it in peace.

So ironic that you cannot follow your own advice.