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Tesla (temporarily) remotely extends range of vehicles for free in Florida

Kurdel

Banned
Well you seemed to be arguing that the market wasn't competitive, and I mentioned that there seemed to be a lot of electric car manufacturers with models at a consumer price point. That would make the market competitive, so I asked how you would prove that the market was non-competitive.

I don't think the market is at a place where people would en masse dump Tesla because of how they manage their SKUS. If people want a Tesla, they will get a Tesla.

I think it's that people trusting the free market to course correct if something is truly wrong is a notion I have trouble believing in.

Here's some ideas for Tesla to fuck over people further and make more comprehensive artificial Trim levels on their cars, specially with the Model 3 coming soon and them wanting to force people into the S since they can't meet production:

*7 speaker systems in all cars but charge more to unlock premium audio surround, otherwise you get 4 speaker lock

*Charge extra to unlock front seat memory settings

*Super cold AC package. Restrict blower to 5 speeds and unlock 3 more for a small fee.

*Superheated steering wheel upgrade. Your wheel can heat, but you gotta pay to unlock.

*Hyperbright front lighting. Everyone gets the same headlights, but base models wont output full Lumen till you upgrade.

I got plenty more! Tesla, hit me up!

Don't give them more ideas for 2020 gaffers to defend!

We live in a nightmare world, and people will gladly defend every inch of it.
 
It's sad people defending this shit.

The new future of cars, they have everything but it's all DLC locked.

A/C, Stereo, Alarm, Remote Start, Keyless Entry, Trunk!. It's all in the car, you can buy it all with that stuff locked out.. and unlock it later!

Here's a 200hp engine, locked to 100hp. Pay $2000 and unlock 50 more hp... $3000 and unlock the last 50hp!

Fuck this noise.. Elon and Tesla aren't the saviors people make them out to be.

Sounds great. Sign me up!
 

Kyzer

Banned
"If they can't make a profit when they are benefiting from enormous subsidies, tax breaks and extremely exploitative labor practices, then they shouldn'texist."

isn't a contradiction with supporting green subsidies.

It's almost as if I like green energy but hate anti-consumer and anti-labor practices, and don't think a company should be able to get government money if it insists on using the latter two.

Why even mention subsidies in the list of things they shouldnt be able to rely on if you support them receiving them and even say they should get more to make them stay afloat? You clearly are moving the goalposts about your position on that specific bulletpoint but ok
 

Kyzer

Banned
When did Elon Musk say he was Jesus or this big savior everyone keeps going out of their way to vocally state that they dont believe? If you buy a Tesla do you automatically become a disciple or so you have to pay extra?
 
When did Elon Musk say he was Jesus or this big savior everyone keeps going out of their way to vocally state that they dont believe? If you buy a Tesla do you automatically become a disciple or so you have to pay extra?

Elon Musk himself? Never. Its called exaggeration over the borderline worship he gets from certain corners of the net.

Why even mention subsidies in the list of things they shouldnt be able to rely on if you support them receiving them and even say they should get more to make them stay afloat? You clearly are moving the goalposts about your position on that specific bulletpoint but ok

You're right, I hate green energy. I love global warming. You win. Now can you move on?
 

rambis

Banned
I never mentioned GPUs. Do you think ECU means the same thing as GPU??
I confused you with someone else. Point still stands.

No one is allowed control over something they don't own. Tesla does not retain ownership of the car you purchase.
 

Kurdel

Banned
When did Elon Musk say he was Jesus or this big savior everyone keeps going out of their way to vocally state that they dont believe? If you buy a Tesla do you automatically become a disciple or so you have to pay extra?

Yeah, to be honest I would rather have 10 Elon Musks than one Notch.

What he did with his money is admirable, and does deserve praise.
 

Jezbollah

Member
No one is allowed control over something they don't own. Tesla does not retain ownership of the car you purchase.

Given that there are software updates all the time for Tesla, then surely there is a legal caveat in place for when you buy such a vehicle that states you consent to such software updates, regardless of their content.
 

East Lake

Member
Why not keep it unlocked and sell it for the lower cost or maybe slightly higher?

If Elon Musk cares about the environment, he shouldn't be so concerned about doing this because more range will entice more people to adopt electric cars.
I'm not sure what the argument is here. If they're selling the car for 70,000 they should lower the price just because? Where's the limit on making a profit? If he likes the environment, why not sell it for 10,000? If you sell it slightly higher, how does that help the consumer?

Make both or change the price because eventually the customer will be able to upgrade on their own and there won't be a thing we can do about it outside of costly legal battles that usually don't end in the corps favor.


You cannot maintain control over a product that someone else owns.
Again I'm not sure what the argument is. If you look around there's plenty of things you buy you don't have total control over. If I buy a gas powered car with artificially reduced power, I got what I payed for. It doesn't hurt me if I didn't need the power, and it doesn't hurt me if they chose that instead of physically building a less powerful engine, and it's not necessarily going to create any savings for me if they make a physical engine instead of opting for a software lock.
 

Kyzer

Banned
I confused you with someone else. Point still stands.

No one is allowed control over something they don't own. Tesla does not retain ownership of the car you purchase.

If you purchase the cheaper version it is probably under an agreement with terms and conditions which spells out that you are purchasing the battery in a limited state in exchange for the lower price. They arent retaining ownership of something you paid for, they are ommitting something so that you dont pay for it.
 
I don't think the market is at a place where people would en masse dump Tesla because of how they manage their SKUS. If people want a Tesla, they will get a Tesla.

I think it's that people trusting the free market to course correct if something is truly wrong is a notion I have trouble believing in.

The free market is terrible for correcting unethical business behavior. At least with large businesses like Shell, BP, DeBeers, Nestle, Coca Cola, WalMart, Amazon, etc...

People don't even know that Nestle purposefully fucked over mothers in developing nations by convincing them not to breast feed with propaganda studies. Or that Coca Cola slaughtered union workers in Columbia. Or that the United Fruit Company slaughtered union workers.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I confused you with someone else. Point still stands.

No one is allowed control over something they don't own. Tesla does not retain ownership of the car you purchase.

And I don't believe there is anything illegal about you putting your own firmware on there, so long as it doesn't cause anything that is deemed unsatisfactory to automotive regulations.
 
If you purchase the cheaper version it is probably under an agreement with terms and conditions which spells out that you are purchasing the battery in a limited state in exchange for the lower price. They arent retaining ownership of something you paid for, they are ommitting something so that you dint pay for it.

Terms and Conditions are always Just and Fair.

maxresdefault.jpg

And I don't believe there is anything illegal about you putting your own firmware on there, so long as it doesn't cause anything that is deemed unsatisfactory to automotive regulations.

For now. But aren't tech companies pushing for this? Wasn't Apple very recently trying to make it ILLEGAL to repair your own phone?

Hasn't John Deere argued that farmers don't actually own their tractors?

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/


In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world's largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don't own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive ”an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle." Over the last two decades, manufacturers have used the DMCA to argue that consumers do not own the software underpinning the products they buy—things like smartphones, computers, coffeemakers, cars, and, yes, even tractors. So, Old MacDonald has a tractor, but he owns a massive barn ornament, because the manufacturer holds the rights to the programming that makes it run.
(This is an important issue for farmers: a neighbor, Kerry Adams, hasn't been able to fix an expensive transplanter because he doesn't have access to the diagnostic software he needs. He's not alone: many farmers are opting for older, computer-free equipment.)
Over the last two decades, manufacturers have used the DMCA to argue that consumers do not own the software that powers the products they buy.
In recent years, some companies have even leveraged the DMCA to stop owners from modifying the programming on those products. This means you can't strip DRM off smart kitty litter boxes, install custom software on your iPad, or alter the calibration on a tractor's engine. Not without potentially running afoul of the DMCA.

Do you think Tesla and others wont follow suit?
 

Ri'Orius

Member
Practically? Fine, if you want it, there is a drawback! 85kWh battery pack from tesla weighs about 540kg. Let's assume that the 75kWh weighs about 500kg. The battery has a fifth of it's battery capacity software locked. So, it's completely reasonable to assume that a 60kWh battery would be at least 80kg lighter. Why should I drag additional 80kg of equipmenet that my car isn't utilizing because of a corporate policy everywhere I go? Weight is essential for the energy consumption of a car.

Well done. You have successfully found a practical reason why this practice could negatively impact the consumer. I want to be clear here: I sincerely commend this, and feel silly for insisting that there is no practical drawback.

That said, this thread is now eight pages long, and this is the first mention of the weight difference I can find. So while you have found a legitimate practical reason that someone could be pissed off about, I think it's safe to say that the weight is not the actual reason that people are pissed off about software locking.

The actual reason, I still believe, is nonsense emotional hangups about "but the disc has the bytes on it!" It's nonsense in games and it's nonsense here.

Ethically? Yes, there's a giant drawback that you're constantly ignoring, examples of which you can see clearly on last 3 pages (you don't even have to go through the whole thread) and in parts of my previous posts that you didn't quote.

If you're talking about whether Tesla's pricing is fair on the whole, that's a complicated issue and I'd rather just stick to the easy question of whether software locking is okay, because it obviously is.

If there's something else, I'd encourage you to mention it specifically. Otherwise I'm just going through three pages trying to find it, and then if I respond to something and it's not what you meant I wasted time and look like I'm strawmanning.

Again, it all reads like nonsense to me. If you think there's something in there that's more valid than "but I own the car (with a software lock), why can't I use it?", I'll happily give it some thought.
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
What if its cheaper to baseline the hardware and software lock the features? Shouldn't do it because !!!!

What if the base cost doesn't got up, but it's now easier to add features after the fact? Screw that because !!!!

Suppose you run a car company and it's cheaper to install a piece of hardware (any type) and disable it (for a premium) than it is to make two different types of cars. Do you choose to manufacture both anyway?


Then charge the lower price for all of it. Don't charge for features that cost the same to manufacture.

I'm not buying a car and having stuff DLC'd out. What's hard to understand about this. If it costs the same to make, then find another way to add value by actually adding something more of value.
 

Jezbollah

Member
Then charge the lower price for all of it. Don't charge for features that cost the same to manufacture.

I'm not buying a car and having stuff DLC'd out. What's hard to understand about this. If it costs the same to make, then find another way to add value by actually adding something more of value.

Just a question - I can see where you're coming from here - but if you believe you should use a car to it's maximum capability (in this case, maximum battery capacity), would you still buy one if it cost more to use a different battery, lower capacity battery?
 

Kyzer

Banned
Im sorry but I don't even want the government to ban this. Regulation can be good and the free market is not that good at fixing things but neither is the government. Im in favor of regulation against the instances in which this could be abused, to prevent companies from doing all the scary things you guys are talking about, but Tesla offering a limited version for cheaper is not one of them and if this got banned it would be an example of over-regulation and a net loss for the consumer. All the potential bad uses of software locked hardware are definitely concerning though, I see where y'all are coming from on that.
 

Dougald

Member
Don't give them more ideas for 2020 gaffers to defend!

We live in a nightmare world, and people will gladly defend every inch of it.

Honestly, software-locking your engine or fuel tank were things a lot of us were saying to be deliberately facetious ~15 years ago when DRM was first coming in, so who knows.
 
Im sorry but I don't even want the government to ban this. Regulation can be good and the free market is not that good at fixing things but neither is the government. Im in favor of regulation against the instances in which this could be abused, to prevent companies from doing all the scary things you guys are talking about, but Tesla offering a limited version for cheaper is not one of them and if this got banned it would be an example of over-regulation and a net loss for the consumer. All the potential bad uses of software locked hardware are definitely concerning though, I see where y'all are coming from on that.

But should the government simultaneously make it illegal to tinker with your own car's software?

Like should it be illegal for me to jailbreak my iPhone? My Tesla?

What if Apple offered a model of the 7 that had 30% more battery life, but we found it wasn't a battery thing but a software thing? Prosecute any person who jailbreaks their regular 7 and turns off the battery dampener software? Prosecute anyone who jailbreaks their iPhone to change the keyboard?
 

Kyzer

Banned
But should the government simultaneously make it illegal to tinker with your own car's software?

No way. Unless its to lift DRM that you voluntarily bought the car with in order to get it at a lower price. I guess CFW that bypasses it entirely is an interesting topic...
 
No way. Unless its to lift DRM that you voluntarily bought the car with in order to get it at a lower price. I guess CFW that bypasses it entirely is an interesting topic...

What if Apple offered a model of the 7 that had 30% more battery life, but we found it wasn't a battery thing but a software thing? Prosecute any person who jailbreaks their regular 7 and turns off the battery dampener software?

What if someone jailbreaks their 7 but only to change the keyboard? Fine, until Apple starts selling keyboard skins?

Should it be illegal to repair your own iPhone? Apple wants that to be the case. And you're violating their terms and conditions if you do. Makes sense for it to be illegal if you don't actually own the phone. Welcome to tech distopia where everything it techy and futuristic but you own nothing.
 

WaterAstro

Member
I'm not sure what the argument is here. If they're selling the car for 70,000 they should lower the price just because? Where's the limit on making a profit? If he likes the environment, why not sell it for 10,000? If you sell it slightly higher, how does that help the consumer?

He's building the same machine at the same cost.

Why is one artificially cheaper because he just limits the range when the cost to him is the same? Realistically, he's "losing" money on the gimped model. I'd rather he just ungimp it and sell it at the higher price if that's going to be the case.
 
So they manufacture 75kw batteries for all cars, but still sell you on a lower cost 60kw in order to provide a lower cost option.

That's like what??? It looks like their supply chain or mfg process isn't up to snuff supposing that the supplier prices between the two batteries are significantly different.

They're taking the hit putting a 75kw battery when it's supposed to be 60k, so it's kinda hard to even care though. They're gaming themselves, not the consumer, because they aren't good at mfg yet.
 
Well done. You have successfully found a practical reason why this practice could negatively impact the consumer. I want to be clear here: I sincerely commend this, and feel silly for insisting that there is no practical drawback.

That said, this thread is now eight pages long, and this is the first mention of the weight difference I can find. So while you have found a legitimate practical reason that someone could be pissed off about, I think it's safe to say that the weight is not the actual reason that people are pissed off about software locking.

The actual reason, I still believe, is nonsense emotional hangups about "but the disc has the bytes on it!" It's nonsense in games and it's nonsense here.



If you're talking about whether Tesla's pricing is fair on the whole, that's a complicated issue and I'd rather just stick to the easy question of whether software locking is okay, because it obviously is.

If there's something else, I'd encourage you to mention it specifically. Otherwise I'm just going through three pages trying to find it, and then if I respond to something and it's not what you meant I wasted time and look like I'm strawmanning.

Again, it all reads like nonsense to me. If you think there's something in there that's more valid than "but I own the car (with a software lock), why can't I use it?", I'll happily give it some thought.

It's about the concept of ownership and creating arbitrary product lines which shouldn't exist by the means of software locking.
Firstly, as stated numerous times in this thread, there are no limits for software locking, which can lead to pretty absurd situations in the future if companies continue to freely embrace this concept (a car with software locked rear doors is an example). Problem is, in the future, people like you will continue do defend this anti-consumer principle.
Secondly, this can easily lead to gradual decline of the rate of progress of these vehicles. Who will stop Tesla from continuing to offer a 60kWh model (software locked from a larger battery) when the battery density increases 2x, 4x, etc, if it is very profitable, and if the '60' brand is already created?
Thirdly, I'm sorry to break it to you, but not using a full potential (in this case, hardware) of a product you own is not okay from a consumer perspective. What you're effectively getting is an arbitrary software licence to use the hardware you own.
The complicated issue (bolded part of the quote) of Tesla's pricing is the very reason they are doing this. It seems to you that the 60 model is the bargain in the range, but it is there actually to create sense for the premium they are making the consumer pay for the 75 version. Software locking enables them to create that sense, or meaning for it's existence, and for that, software locking is not okay.

At least I'm glad that you moved on from looking only at the practicality aspect of the situation.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
But should the government simultaneously make it illegal to tinker with your own car's software?

Different topic, but I believe they should for cars. Heavy machinery isn't the place for unregulated tinkering.
 

East Lake

Member
Then charge the lower price for all of it. Don't charge for features that cost the same to manufacture.

I'm not buying a car and having stuff DLC'd out. What's hard to understand about this. If it costs the same to make, then find another way to add value by actually adding something more of value.
So hypothetically lets say the price of the 75kwh car is priced at 75,000 and is lowered by 2,000, prompting more people to buy the car. Note this is less than the 8,500 reduction Tesla chose for the software limited car, so people who might buy with an 8,500 discount aren't buying with only a 2,000 discount. Now suppose you want to sell to people at an 8,500 discount, but it costs less to make the same battery and software lock it than to actually make a new battery. Note that this would cost the company less money, and that if they actually made the different battery it would be more expensive for the consumer at 60kwh, it would also be more expensive for the consumer if they only made a 75kwh version, and wouldn't offer any options to people who might be in the market with an 8,500 discount.
 

Kyzer

Banned
What if Apple offered a model of the 7 that had 30% more battery life, but we found it wasn't a battery thing but a software thing? Prosecute any person who jailbreaks their regular 7 and turns off the battery dampener software?

What if someone jailbreaks their 7 but only to change the keyboard? Fine, until Apple starts selling keyboard skins?

Should it be illegal to repair your own iPhone? Apple wants that to be the case. And you're violating their terms and conditions if you do. Makes sense for it to be illegal if you don't actually own the phone. Welcome to tech distopia where everything it techy and futuristic but you own nothing.
Ok this is an interesting topic... I dont really know how to look at this. If they sold you an iphone for cheaper but technically didn't sell you that battery performance, then unlocking it would be more akin to piracy than modding, right? Because technically you didnt pay for that part of hardware that you unlocked. Or rather, you didnt pay for that capacity to be unlocked via software, since its all operated by the OS. I honestly dont know what to think of this analogy. On one hand, yeah thats your battery physically. On the other, in order to unlock that capacity youre going to have to hack DRM. I guess CFW that unlocks the capacity would be acceptable, but bypassing the DRM would not? You definitely got me thinking... 🤔


He's building the same machine at the same cost.

Why is one artificially cheaper because he just limits the range when the cost to him is the same? Realistically, he's "losing" money on the gimped model. I'd rather he just ungimp it and sell it at the higher price if that's going to be the case.

They probably sell more by having a cheaper option so its worth it. They operate at a loss because of high volume and investment, so they gotta keep sales high.
 
You own the physical fucking battery that is capable of going the whole way but they charge you to remove the software which limits it?
These fucking savages are enslaving consumers with drm and it needs to stop.
 

pxleyes

Banned
You own the physical fucking battery that is capable of going the whole way but they charge you to remove the software which limits it?
These fucking savages are enslaving consumers with drm and it needs to stop.
Take a deep breath because you aren't gonna like how they produce processors.
 

rambis

Banned
Given that there are software updates all the time for Tesla, then surely there is a legal caveat in place for when you buy such a vehicle that states you consent to such software updates, regardless of their content.
No, surely there isnt. This is all unregulated. Any case would have to go to court and the courts usually decide against the corps in these cases. This isnt anything new, the same story for decades now.

What Tesla can do is void your warranty but thats about it.
 

Jezbollah

Member
No, surely there isnt. This is all unregulated. Any case would have to go to court and the courts usually decide against the corps in these cases. This isnt anything new, the same story for decades now.

What Tesla can do is void your warranty but thats about it.

Interesting. TIL. Thanks.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
No, surely there isnt. This is all unregulated. Any case would have to go to court and the courts usually decide against the corps in these cases. This isnt anything new, the same story for decades now.

What Tesla can do is void your warranty but thats about it.

Then I don't really see what the issue is. You own the hardware, you're free to modify the software.
 

rambis

Banned
Then I don't really see what the issue is. You own the hardware, you're free to modify the software.
Kyzer is arguring that its illegal. Decades of precedent says this is false. Basically just ask yourself, "why we got modchips"?
 
I just can't get behind the idea of needing access to something just because you 'own' it. To me, it doesn't matter if it's a smaller battery or one with a cap, as long as I'm getting what I paid for I really don't care at all how it's produced. There are literally no downsides and even some benefits. Your resale value isn't affected and may even be higher than if it were just a smaller battery. I don't understand getting angry about the principle of ownership when as a consumer I'm actually benefiting.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Kyzer is arguring that its illegal. Decades of precedent says this is false. Basically just ask yourself, "why we got modchips"?

Yes I get that, but I don't understand why people are arguing that Tesla are locking it away, when you are free to modify it.
 
I just can't get behind the idea of needing access to something just because you 'own' it. To me, it doesn't matter if it's a smaller battery or one with a cap, as long as I'm getting what I paid for I really don't care at all how it's produced. There are literally no downsides and even some benefits. Your resale value isn't affected and may even be higher than if it were just a smaller battery. I don't understand getting angry about the principle of ownership when as a consumer I'm actually benefiting.

There are downsides, you are effectively dragging the weight of an average grown human everywhere you go, which you don't need, if the fifth of the battery capacity is software locked. May not sound like alot but weight is essential in energy consumption.
 
There are downsides, you are effectively dragging the weight of an average grown human everywhere you go, which you don't need, if the fifth of the battery capacity is software locked. May not sound like alot but weight is essential in energy consumption.

I feel like that would be negligible but I'm not automotive expert. I still feel like the benefits outweigh that though.
 

Ri'Orius

Member
It's about the concept of ownership and creating arbitrary product lines which shouldn't exist by the means of software locking.

But to be clear: any of these things you're saying are totally fine if they're not done with a software lock, yes? Creating the illusion of a premium model by selling a stripped-down model? Selling two-door cars is fine and not anti-consumer, selling cars with software locked doors is evil? And product stagnation (like, say, mobile phone battery life) is fine as long as there was never a software lock involved?

Firstly, as stated numerous times in this thread, there are no limits for software locking, which can lead to pretty absurd situations in the future if companies continue to freely embrace this concept (a car with software locked rear doors is an example). Problem is, in the future, people like you will continue do defend this anti-consumer principle.

Well, first that's a slippery slope fallacy. Second, if consumers continue to buy stripped-down models, clearly someone's getting value out of it. I personally hate two-door cars, or even worse two-seater cars, and I don't understand why people would buy such products, but that's not my decision to make for other people. If someone would rather have a car with room for just two people, well, that's his or her decision to make.

Secondly, this can easily lead to gradual decline of the rate of progress of these vehicles. Who will stop Tesla from continuing to offer a 60kWh model (software locked from a larger battery) when the battery density increases 2x, 4x, etc, if it is very profitable, and if the '60' brand is already created?

How is this problem exacerbated by software locks? If anything software locks can prevent this sort of stagnation by making it easier/more profitable for Tesla to sell a wider range of products and easier for consumers to upgrade as they see fit.

If they couldn't do software locks, what makes you think they'd make 240kw batteries as the only model available if the 60 model is the most profitable? The much more reasonable conclusion in the scenario I believe you're outlining is to just sell 60kw models, meaning the 240kw isn't available even to those who want it.

I'd rather have the option to buy a phone with a bigger battery than not have that option. If the cheapest way to give consumers that option is through software locks, why do you want to make it harder for them to give consumers options?

Thirdly, I'm sorry to break it to you, but not using a full potential (in this case, hardware) of a product you own is not okay from a consumer perspective. What you're effectively getting is an arbitrary software licence to use the hardware you own.

It's not arbitrary: it's what I paid for. If I paid for a 60kw car, and I get a 60kw car, that's called a fair and transparent business transaction.

And again: I don't think it's better for anyone involved if it's a hardware restriction. You've failed to give any reasoning for that (aside from the weight issue which, again, I think is clearly not on anyone's mind).

The complicated issue (bolded part of the quote) of Tesla's pricing is the very reason they are doing this. It seems to you that the 60 model is the bargain in the range, but it is there actually to create sense for the premium they are making the consumer pay for the 75 version. Software locking enables them to create that sense, or meaning for it's existence, and for that, software locking is not okay.

So you're saying using software locks to achieve the exact same psychological effect that hardware differences have been doing since forever is scummy.

But it's totally fine for Tesla (and every car company in existence) to sell multiple models if and only if those models have different hardware, right?
 

KHarvey16

Member
Sell the 75kw version at the 60kw price would be what Tesla would do have to do if the market were competitive. Since they cost the same to produce. Not hard.

Doesn't this assume Tesla would still make money this way? Isn't it possible (or even likely) the more expensive cars partially subsidize the battery cost on the lower priced vehicles, since penetration and volume is their biggest goal?
 

East Lake

Member
It's shitty to charge people more to use something they already physically own.
To be honest this reaction seems mostly based on a misconception. The misconception either being that if you buy the high end version, people are getting what you got for a discount with the software limit, or the opposite where people who buy the cheap version are getting gouged and should have been able to use all 75 kwh.

This assumes Tesla should be doing one thing or the other, either pricing everybody at 60kwh prices or pricing everybody at 75kwh prices, or to restate, either charge less or charge more. Tesla chose to go for something in between. Nobody was ever going to get more range at a discount price, whether it's manufactured or software limited. If people want 75 kwh at 60kwh prices they can wait for other manufacturers to offer that.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
You are a horrible boring human being.

So be it. But the idea of dicking around with the ECU of a car for a hobby, especially when cars are so reliant on the logic in that box, sounds fucking dangerous and difficult to test - unlike custom mechanical components.
 

E-Cat

Member
Holy shit, almost 20 pages over... this?

Does no one here understand how electronics, which cars pretty much are at this point, work?

You make multiple SKUs out of one chip, or in this case, battery. This is to achieve greater yields in case there is a slight production defect. Or, there may be nothing wrong with the product at all, but it will be artificially 'downgraded' to a lower-tier class because that's where the most demand is. Do you really think that 200 Hz feature or extra HDMI port on your fancy new TV cost $500 extra to make?

Hence, it's the premium customers who in actuality get charged out the ass, not the middle ones. Nothing to see here.
 

daegan

Member
So be it. But the idea of dicking around with the ECU of a car for a hobby, especially when cars are so reliant on the logic in that box, sounds fucking dangerous and difficult to test - unlike custom mechanical components.

Personally my line is drawn when the car has autonomous features. I don't want a hobbyist sending their self-driving machine out into the wild where it can go all GTA.
 
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