Support NeoGAF

[Motwera]

I am pretty sure OP doesn't know that people around the world are still buying consoles to play games on, even when it is the least legitimate way, it isn't always about the technology and efficiency, jeff.

It is about the demand, easiness, and relevance of gaming consoles as a whole, is what keeps it alive.

Also, don't go hampering people about your uber-techy knowledge (which I actually understand) just to try to prove a point, after all, not everybody here is uber-geeky in technology like you.

 

[Durante]

I think the topic should be called the death of PC gaming

You may not have been around for it, but we got roughly 10 of those per month back around 2006.

I think people got it out of their system by now.

 

[shrek]

Oh look. It's this thread again.

The average consumer either does not care about or does not understand any of the advantages PC gaming possesses. Consoles aren't going anywhere, especially if MS has anything to say about it.

 

[entremet]

I agree with the OP it will just take longer.

Smartphones, tablets and non custom hardware will rule in the near future.

The average age of gamers keeps going up every year. The market will crater for dedicated machines. It's not a growth market either.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yup, the final straw was my insisting the next generation game consoles (XB1 and PS4) would have CE features and need a seperate processing path and memory for vision and audio processing. I was correct (Xtensa processors and for the PS4 it's in the Southbridge with 256 MB of memory) but that's beside the point. I also insisted that the PS4 would have a browser desktop which was an unpopular opinion with Shifty. Windows 10, XB1 and PS4 all have browser/openGL desktops. I speculated that DirectX would move from brute force to using more efficient ARM GPU techniques like tiling and Direct X 12 supports tiling...that comment created another firestorm.

Is that all? I seem to remember you posting outlandish claims based on technical nonsense that people could not understand to the point where Shifty banned you because you refused to listen.

It seems like its one of those times again.

I can understand debating the merits of dedicated hardware in an age like ours, when everything is proprietary and easy to find, but none of your actual points in the OP touch on that, and have nothing to do with why realistically, the general consumer parent thingy at Holiday would pick say, a desktop PC over one of those heavily marketed gamer boxes that plays their child's preferred games.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Is that all? I seem to remember you posting outlandish claims based on technical nonsense that people could not understand to the point where Shifty banned you because you refused to listen.

It seems like its one of those times again.

I can understand debating the merits of dedicated hardware in an age like ours, when everything is proprietary and easy to find, but none of your actual points in the OP touch on that, and have nothing to do with why realistically, the general consumer parent thingy at Holiday would pick say, a desktop PC over one of those heavily marketed gamer boxes that plays their child's preferred games.

Go back and read the posts (I have), you will find I was usually accurate and about 2 years in advance of implementation. I can find and email you a link to the posts that got me banned, they were as I stated. I was guilty of "derailing" threads and that is a failing I have to this day...I don't find most threads interesting if they don't bring up new information or the next logical progression in a subject. This thread is a case in point....I can see the end of consoles beause in 2 years the PC can fill the same role.

The PC OS is evolving just as Game Console OS is evolving, they are converging because everyone is moving to a browser desktop. Consumer facing platforms are going to support IPTV and XTV on the desktop or instantly accessable from the desktop. To do this requires webkit and native libraries always loaded. The same will be true for the PC as Windows 10 with HEVC is designed to support Vidipath (DLNA CVP2). To work as a consumer facing plarform easy enough to use for the "masses" will require a very easy to use and simple console like desktop. That's also coming. In a few years every TV on Cable will be a connected smart TV or use a STB with browser to watch TV (DLNA CVP2 platforms support XTV). They will support games, browser, Video Chat and more..so much so that the UI is extremely important...it must be very easy to use. Think about that and the average consumer that just wants to turn the TV on and use it. Or turn it on and play games. Think about a PC that is instantly on which is the goal of the current game consoles.

AMD Start Now Technology ​​Get back to work and play quickly

​​​What look​s like a PC but acts like a tablet or a smartphone? It’s your PC with AMD Start Now technology. How’s that, you wonder? Simply put: AMD Start Now gives select AMD-based PCs the responsiveness and convenient connectivity of a tablet or a smartphone. No more sitting around, tapping your foot and waiting for your computer to boot up – your computer quickly goes from sleep to on, and from ​on to online.

 

[Neff]

I don't wish to sound rude, but from my experience absolutely nothing suggested in the OP circumvents what people traditionally like about consoles and traditionally dislike about gaming on a PC.

 

[kitch9]

Gaming on the pc is a pain in the ass, and I love my PC.

No way in hell it becomes mainstream.

 

[kephyr]

"Considering that is only retail, it's pretty bloody impressive regardless. I'm sure those top 7 have healthy digital sales as well, but the majority of PC sale are only digital"

Yes. It's true. But if you go to the Steam, you will see many actions/sales and cheap games, not 60$ AAA games. If the Steam or GOG or Humble bundle, etc brought more money to the publishers, they would release the AAA games these platforms/shops. I don't know the reason, but they (AAA publishers) don't prefer this path. Why? In my opinion, the full price AAA game does low numbers or less (!) than the console market. It is important.

The GTA is a good example, big project with big investment, they pushed back the PC release. I don't know what was the marketing bulls*it about the "reschedule" but the GTA was the first on the UK sales in first week of 2015. Ok, it is just a tip, but ...

There are many PC users in the world and PC has more power and possibility, but it is not enough itself.

 

[Ushay]

Meh.


There will be PS5/XboneXXX, and they will be great.

Indeed.

Console has apparently been dying since 10 years ago. Yet with the new gen we're seeing growth compared to last gen.

The console is simply too convenient a solution for the working individual who cant be bothered to assemble a PC. They have enough power, a fixed ecosystem and simple control scheme.

Consoles aren't going anywhere.

 

[Chuck Norris]

OP, Your knowledge of hardware development is impressive. Your insight into consumer behaviour and trends is woeful. Nothing you said is reflected in reality. PCs themselves are struggling against the emergence of tablets and better laptops. People don't care about more powerful PC architecture. And I'm skeptical about any emergence of Smart TVs, the HDTV wave has crashed and most people have invested in their TV already.

 

[Micerider]

I see where you're coming from Jeff bug you argue on technical info (which I can somewhat stand with) and completely ignore one the most important aspect : market appeal.

There is no brand of PC pushing marketing in the way console manufacturers do. It could happen if MS would focus their big game on it though, but they can't keep a straight line on PC gaming in the last decade.

 

[vpance]

I want to see what RAD can do with 20TF. Next gen will be the one that finally delivers.

 

[Suzushiiro]

I see where you're coming from Jeff bug you argue on technical info (which I can somewhat stand with) and completely ignore one the most important aspect : market appeal.

There is no brand of PC pushing marketing in the way console manufacturers do. It could happen if MS would focus their big game on it though, but they can't keep a straight line on PC gaming in the last decade.

Yeah, I think people are going to be buying boxes built by Sony and Microsoft to play games on their TVs for a while because those are the brands that they associate with that sort of gaming experience. Those boxes may become more HTPC-like in the future (in that they may be less of a walled garden,) though I doubt things will go so far as us seeing an Xbox Two that's literally just a HTPC with the same version of Windows that you run on your desktop machine.

 

[AmyS]

I want to see what RAD can do with 20TF.

I'll second that thought.

 

[Seanspeed]

Is this what happens when the "PC master race" circle-jerk takes itself seriously?

I really don't think OP is any PC fanboy/elitist. He's a guy super knowledgeable about this stuff that makes some....uh, bold predictions at times. But I've never seen a hint of favouritism when it comes to PC or anything.

And there are very few people outright agreeing with him, too. Even all the regular PC gamers I see here seem to think differently.

Its funny though. Twice I've seen 'PC master race' mentioned in this thread, and both times it was not by elitist PC gamers, but by people trying to disparage PC gamers. Which is how I most often see it being used. And it never seems to be a bannable offense for some reason...

 

[Talax]

LOL wtf!!!! Best thing to come out of this thread imo. XD

 

[truly101]

Probably stated already but gaming consoles are arguably more threatened by tablets and smartphones, not really desktops and laptops. That may be where some of the more traditional gaming space goes, there could also be a big sea change as kids growing up today don't have an interest in what gamers did 5-10 years ago.

 

[Akainu]

i haven't been keeping up. this was a joke thread right? the op wasn't being serious?

 

[Roberto Larcos]

It's a shame there's still so much ignorance regarding PC gaming.

How many PCs built in 2005 (the year the Xbox 360 launched) meet the minimum spec requirements for GTA V or Advanced Warfare?

Things are rosy at the start of the gen - it gets a lot less black and white towards the tail end.

TV are built to be outdated in 5-10 years time anyway, whether because of immaturity of the LCD or simply due to purposefully built in obsolescence. When my Philips died after only six years I bought a Smart TV and ever since I've been hitting myself for the head I haven't done so sooner. Can't help but laugh when MS puts youtube behind Live Gold or I see people discussing which console is best for Netflix. TVs already take care of all that guys. I can totally see streaming become so good that most people can play one console generation older games easily on smart TVs.

1) YouTube and other apps are no longer paywalled, only online gaming.

2) Over 25 million people have already said that 'one console generation older games' aren't good enough.

i haven't been keeping up. this was a joke thread right? the op wasn't being serious?

Something something Poe's law?

 

[lazygecko]

Its funny though. Twice I've seen 'PC master race' mentioned in this thread, and both times it was not by elitist PC gamers, but by people trying to disparage PC gamers. Which is how I most often see it being used. And it never seems to be a bannable offense for some reason...

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Seanspeed]

How many PCs built in 2005 (the year the Xbox 360 launched) meet the minimum spec requirements for GTA V or Advanced Warfare?

Things are rosy at the start of the gen - it gets a lot less black and white towards the tail end.

GTAV on PC is a port of the next-gen version(a game that only runs 30fps on these next gen consoles, too). I would also assume that Advanced Warfare PC is made with the next-gen version in mind, although it'd be interesting to see if something like a 8800GT could run it on lowest settings and 600-720p.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Windows needs to become free for this movement to ever occur. Linux development is a huge player in this, but Windows licensing kills the boxes on a price to performance ratio, and until Linux has a much larger presence, we have to rely on windows to pick up that momentum.

I imagine if Windows becomes free, real market saturation can begin, and more devices can begin opening the floodgates. More devices, more linux opportunities, more room for steamOS expansion.

I dunno, I'm just going on about nothing I suppose, but I think Windows is preventing this from happening.

 

[Boss Mog]

Meanwhile back in the real world....

Piracy is and will always be an issue on PC

And in 2017 most TVs won't be from 2017 and the PS4/XB1 will probably be selling better than ever.

 

[Molemitts]

I hope consoles don't die before Bloodborne is released, please? I'm real hyped for that one.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

GTAV on PC is a port of the next-gen version(a game that only runs 30fps on these next gen consoles, too). I would also assume that Advanced Warfare PC is made with the next-gen version in mind, although it'd be interesting to see if something like a 8800GT could run it on lowest settings and 600-720p.

You can still play both games on an Xbox 360 bought over 9 years ago though, right?

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

The day consoles go away for good, the better I think. A unified platform for universal development would be a dream come true. I just don't want that platform to be windows based.

I'd love for Linux to become the universal OS. Everyone contributing to it's development, and everyone having access to it. Maybe some day my pipe dream will happen

 

[Seanspeed]

Windows needs to become free for this movement to ever occur. Linux development is a huge player in this, but Windows licensing kills the boxes on a price to performance ratio, and until Linux has a much larger presence, we have to rely on windows to pick up that momentum.

I imagine if Windows becomes free, real market saturation can begin, and more devices can begin opening the floodgates. More devices, more linux opportunities, more room for steamOS expansion.

I dunno, I'm just going on about nothing I suppose, but I think Windows is preventing this from happening.

Well Windows too, but also there's no real PC manufacturer that can put out PC's at or below cost like Microsoft and Sony can afford to do. There's no walled garden ecosystem for them to make their money off of. So that's another advantage traditional console manufacturers will probably have for the foreseeable future. Even if games are cheaper on PC and it might ultimately be a more affordable route, $100-200 higher sticker price for these machines would be enough to make people shy away.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I love Jeff threads. When it comes to the technology, he seems to know what he's talking about. Usually, I don't understand what he's saying, but this time I think he made an effort to make it more understandable. Much appreciated.

That said, I don't agree with him that the death of the game console is in sight. He may be correct that on a technical level PCs will soon be able to do anything that consoles can do, but I think there are just too many people who, like me, just like the ecosystems and plug-and-play nature that consoles bring.

 

[Goldfishking]

The day consoles go away for good, the better I think. A unified platform for universal development would be a dream come true. I just don't want that platform to be windows based.

I'd love for Linux to become the universal OS. Everyone contributing to it's development, and everyone having access to it. Maybe some day my pipe dream will happen

Competition is good for everyone, a unified platform is not always the answer.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Well Windows too, but also there's no real PC manufacturer that can put out PC's at or below cost like Microsoft and Sony can afford to do. There's no walled garden ecosystem for them to make their money off of. So that's another advantage traditional console manufacturers will probably have for the foreseeable future. Even if games are cheaper on PC and it might ultimately be a more affordable route, $100-200 higher sticker price for these machines would be enough to make people shy away.

I agree. The fact that hardware cannot benefit from constant fabrication will forever be a hindrance to PC adoption, but one of the huge advantages is that if they can nail the scalability aspects, users can grab games based on their needs. So while you'll never get PS4 performance for $400 worth of PC components, a user only interested in Indie games can maybe get something perfect for that for $200.

Perhaps the markets can start standardizing bare minimum requirements and set up a tiered system that they can start printing on premade units.

 

[Denton]

Gaming on the pc is a pain in the ass, and I love my PC.

No way in hell it becomes mainstream.

You might have missed the tens of millions of League of Legends players...and World of Tanks players...and DOTA 2 players...and Steam users....

The only places where consoles are more "mainstream" than PC is US and UK, rest of the world is more PC mainstreamed than consoles.

 

[Seanspeed]

You can still play both games on an Xbox 360 bought over 9 years ago though, right?

If your Xbox360 miraculously lasted that long, sure.

But a decent gaming PC bought right now will also be able to play new games for the next 5 years as well, so long as you aren't interested in keeping up with the PC curve and are fine with 30fps.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Competition is good for everyone, a unified platform is not always the answer.

Competition is good, and there would still be competition among content creators. But the OS war has been a nightmare so far. Heavily one sided for the most part, and the good sides often having awful side effects. As it stands, windows is basically all powerful, and the tech moves at whatever rate they want it to.

 

[Hiko]

The day consoles go away for good, the better I think. A unified platform for universal development would be a dream come true. I just don't want that platform to be windows based.

I'd love for Linux to become the universal OS. Everyone contributing to it's development, and everyone having access to it. Maybe some day my pipe dream will happen

I don't know why you dream about such a meaningless thing.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

I don't know why you dream about such a meaningless thing.

I'm a hopeless romantic when it comes to open source

 

[FyreWulff]

Competition is good for everyone, a unified platform is not always the answer.

You can still have competition with a standard format.

Movie studios still compete with each other even though they all release their movies on a standard format.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

You can still have competition with a standard format.

Movie studios still compete with each other even though they all release their movies on a standard format.

Big time! Even among the Linux distro's there's still competition, and ultimately I think that's where the real development will take place. When dev's no longer have to choose where to allocate resources.

I mean I hardly remember people complaining about variety when the PS1 and 2 dominated the console space. It was a golden era for gaming, where it was actually about making content, and less about the gaming politics.

I think if we were to just globally move over to pc development, we'd be much better off for it.

 

[SmokedMeat]

You might have missed the tens of millions of League of Legends players...and World of Tanks players...and DOTA 2 players...and Steam users....

The only places where consoles are more "mainstream" than PC is US and UK, rest of the world is more PC mainstreamed than consoles.

Yes, some countries love ftp games.

 

[system11]

The day consoles go away for good, the better I think.

So all those people who happily buy consoles and play games on them at the moment, are they supposed to just find a new hobby? They're not going to switch to PC or anything that resembles one.

 

[Krejlooc]

They're not going to switch to PC or anything that resembles one.

They already play on PCs. There is nothing stopping "PC" from looking just like the consoles of today.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Yes, some countries love ftp games.

Suggesting that the only thing that non-US/UK gamers play on the PC is F2P titles does an enormous disservice to the platform, and suggests that you don't know a lot about the global PC scene.

 

[Seanspeed]

Yes, some countries love ftp games.

Suggesting that the only thing that non-US/UK gamers play on the PC is F2P titles does an enormous disservice to the platform, and suggests that you don't know a lot about the global PC scene.

This is him earlier on this very page:

Im not familiar with PC gaming, so I don't comment about it. I stick with what I know

I have a feeling I'm going to get a lot of use out of that. Didn't think it would be so quickly, but I'm not shocked, either. lol

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

So all those people who happily buy consoles and play games on them at the moment, are they supposed to just find a new hobby? They're not going to switch to PC or anything that resembles one.

I wouldn't want them to. I don't want pc development to set the world on fire in it's current state. PC's are very unfriendly at the moment. Accessibility needs to be addressed as a primary concern. PC's need to become even friendlier than consoles in many aspects. SteamOS and Steambox's are making some pretty large strides regarding this, and any hardware provider looking to entice people for gaming purposes needs to address this.

 

[FyreWulff]

Big time! Even among the Linux distro's there's still competition, and ultimately I think that's where the real development will take place. When dev's no longer have to choose where to allocate resources.

I mean I hardly remember people complaining about variety when the PS1 and 2 dominated the console space. It was a golden era for gaming, where it was actually about making content, and less about the gaming politics.

I think if we were to just globally move over to pc development, we'd be much better off for it.

It's just silly when you think about the fact that a game has to be replicated 2 or 3 times on the same shelving area. It'd be like having to make separate DVDs for Panasonic, Sony, and GenericName DVD players, or having to release 3 different versions of a book that all have the same words in it with different covers to get people to buy them.

It's time for the game industry to grow up.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Guys, we will see a Convergeance, where PC and console gaming become indistiguishable. PC gaming is becoming more console-ish with Steamboxes and the decline of the PC market because of the Tablet Boom , and Console games are becoming more PC-ish with the inclusion of greater feature sets.

 

[The Sarcastic Dude]

We'll all be laughing at this thread a few years from now. (Well, perhaps except OP). Console ain't going anywhere.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

It's just silly when you think about the fact that a game has to be replicated 2 or 3 times on the same shelving area. It'd be like having to make separate DVDs for Panasonic, Sony, and GenericName DVD players, or having to release 3 different versions of a book that all have the same words in it with different covers to get people to buy them.

It's time for the game industry to grow up.

Yup yup, and it's not even as if the big 3 couldn't continue to push hardware if they so desired. They could still push an "official Sony playstation" using the same framework, and just use that as the targeted spec for however long they desired. Obviously those with better hardware could get more out of the games, and those with weaker hardware would suffer, but these are problems that PC gaming still needs to address.

I dunno, I just feel like people attack PC gaming for the wrong reasons.

 

[Josh5890]

By 2017 every TV will be a smart TV or have a Vidipath STB connected to it. There will be a need for at least one media hub with hard disk (read PC), the other TVs can use ARM STBs or HDMI sticks.

I know several people who still do not own an HD TV. They still sell CRT TV's today. Some people don't care about that kind of stuff. I don't see every TV sold being a Smart TV for a very long time.