Sportbilly
Member
They make their figures up, then correct them when NPD/ publisher figures get released or leaked.
You need to press a button?? Fuck that, Gabe does it for me.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The death of the Game Console
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
- Start date
They make their figures up, then correct them when NPD/ publisher figures get released or leaked.
You need to press a button?? Fuck that, Gabe does it for me.
Sportbilly
Member
DP
What we recognize as a game console will be radically different when broadband catches up to the requirements of content delivery. We are still in Comcastopia, so this seismic shift is still a bit off. The situation is better in some other markets, but those markets do not have the same volume of discretionary spending.
slavesnyder
Member
Yes! This is the truth.
Normal people, and these are the guys they are aiming at, the majority, the masses, not the technological pioneers, nerds and admins, they do not know what all this abbrevation-shit means, what all these numbers mean. they want entertainment, and consoles are the easiest way to get the job done, together with tablets and phones.
No one sells CRT TVs today. And who is "they" by the way?
Insane Metal
Gold Member
LMAO, we have these threads every gen.
I was playing my 360 on a CRT until Aug 14.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Sure, but you're describing problems with the PC experience, not it's limitation. Any PC can be made to function even easier than any console. It's setting that experience up in a way to make it simple. On my mothers computer that I switched over to linux, she turns her computer on, and it gets to the desktop which has 4 icons (increased in size of course). Internet, email, hangouts and facebook. All of them are separate icons that lead to different internet pages in chrome lol.
So I took what's arguably the most complicated operating system, and turned it into something literally anyone who can understand the words can use.
The PC gaming experience can be absolutely simple.
Someone playing on a CRT is a very different thing from electronics stores selling CRTs.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Curry-Hakase
Member
I think he means who still stocks CRTs on the shelf.
I haven't seen CRTs in retail for a while.
HDTVs are fairly affordable these days ignoring the models with all the bells and whistles.
I don't agree with the Smart TV being in every household though.
Even when I bought my tv 2 years ago I had to kind of hunt to find a dumb tv model with specs/price I wanted.
As for the OP, that sony/linux prediction is hilarious.
slavesnyder
Member
They only have to add a grandson like you to every box.
The problem is that of course you can configure and optimise pc stuff for a perfectly fit end product. but this is something the majority cannot do.
with consoles you buy a box and you know exactly what is in it and what it can do and what not.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I agree. It's something any manufacturer of gaming pre-built's is going to have to address. I imagine a Steambox of any nature would be relatively plug and play, because the OS is designed around gaming. If Sony sold a pre-built playstation branded pc for example, the user interface would have to be tailored around gaming, while the performance and game handling would be done by a universal operating system. The Playstation UI would be the shell.
slavesnyder
Member
In this case we can be friends.
Steambox for me is a console, even if there is a pc inside and it runs on linux. (playstation and xbox are also pcs inside, so what the heck).
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
The people in this thread talking about the labyrinthine complexities of playing a PC game seem to be ignoring the realities of the modern PC marketplace, and the software support currently available.
If I want to buy a game? I click on 'Buy Game' in Steam. It is automated.
If I want to install a game? I click on 'Install game' and the game installs.
If I want to patch a game? Steam does it for me.
If I want to update a driver? Nvidia says 'Download and update' and I click the button.
If I don't want to micromanage the settings of a game so that they are optimised for my hardware, I go to Geforce Experience and I click 'Optimise'.
I just don't understand the arguments that some people in here are making about the 'convenience' of consoles - the gulf in accessibility and convenience is not as wide as it was during the 360/PS3 era. It just isn't.
If I want to buy a game? I click on 'Buy Game' in Steam. It is automated.
If I want to install a game? I click on 'Install game' and the game installs.
If I want to patch a game? Steam does it for me.
If I want to update a driver? Nvidia says 'Download and update' and I click the button.
If I don't want to micromanage the settings of a game so that they are optimised for my hardware, I go to Geforce Experience and I click 'Optimise'.
I just don't understand the arguments that some people in here are making about the 'convenience' of consoles - the gulf in accessibility and convenience is not as wide as it was during the 360/PS3 era. It just isn't.
slavesnyder
Member
If I say I want a PS4, you know exactly what it is.
If I say I want a WiiU, you know exactly what it is.
If I say I want an XboxOne, you know exactly what it is.
If I say I want a PC, you don't know jack.
Using Steam is not the problem. The Millions of configurations, plugins, drivers, compatibilities and system requirements are the problem.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Absolutely, and that's the goal they're hoping to achieve. Valve wants a unified operating system to sell games on. Valve want's a world, where your simple to use console, and your machine designed around productivity can both have access to everything Steam has to offer. Instead of fragmenting the market with a bunch of OS's devs have to work around, they'd rather it be unified, with them becoming the biggest fish in the pond.
Most people associate "PC's" with workstations, which is what Valve is trying to break away from.
Tabasco
Member
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
But, that's the thing - they're not a problem. Steam standardises distribution, installation and patching. Nvidia/AMD standardises optimisation for your specific hardware configuration. I don't know what the 'millions' of plugins and drivers are that you're referring to - you have an Nvidia card or an AMD card, and you install whatever driver is current. That's it.
You're using hyperbole to exaggerate the complexities of PC gaming. I'd also counter by saying that if you want an Xbox One, you know exactly what it is - but you don't know, any more than PC users do, how your software is going to perform, and if it doesn't perform to your satisfaction, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Look at the Master Chief Collection or Unity.
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
The topic creator completely ignores the main reason I have and will never be a PC gamer: Nintendo. Their games are the ones I love most, and their games will only ever be playable on their own unique hardware. PS4 and Xbone are not the only consoles around, despite what the TC seems to think. As long as Nintendo is alive and kicking (and they very much are; they're nowhere near "dead"), console gaming (or at least console/handheld-hybrid gaming, if that's the direction Nintendo is going in) will exist.
The PlayStation brand isn't going anywhere for a long time, either. The PS4's sales can attest to that.
The PlayStation brand isn't going anywhere for a long time, either. The PS4's sales can attest to that.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
In a one operating system future, Nintendo wouldn't need to disappear. Nintendo could still design and distribute hardware, they could still have their own e-shop, they could still design peripherals based on the hardware they've set as a target. Hell, Nintendo could even design their own OS if they wanted to, and just have the framework be based on the "standard".
Sadly enough, integrated graphics are already getting quite powerful. Intel is really pushing the envelope in this direction lol. The "theoretical peak" performance of Intel's Iris Pro 5200 is around 832 GFlops according to Anandtech no?
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
Ah, okay. I see what you're saying. Yeah, I suppose I could see that being the future. I don't think consoles themselves are going away anytime soon, but all of them being based on the same standard is something that doesn't seem too far-fetched.
But it is not, that is the point. The fact that you have to make it so, means that PC is not there yet and probably never will be, because it is opposite of its main use.
MS tried to move to that direction with the Start - less windows 8 and see what happened.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Sure, but again you're describing a problem, not a limitation. Android was the definition of this in the beginning, it was just too complicated, and no one would figure out how to get the most out of it. Then Samsung rips off the Iphone interface to the highest degree, and many others follow suit. Now Android is the most common operating system, and everyone can use it.
Usability is an issue that "living room gaming pc" creators are going to have to address. How is a steambox in terms of usability?
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Android has that commonality for many reasons - most of which have to do with the sales of cheap handsets containing open source software to developing markets.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
This sums up my thoughts to a tee.
This conversation is had every generation... and every generation it is proved wrong.
Perhaps if the hardware is built into certain TVs... that would be the only way I see consoles going away, since streaming gaming is doomed to latency until a something better than fibre is around (aka a long way away).
Oh so we are getting another step. However I don't think it's quite "there" yet.
IMHO to let console gaming be handled at something ubiquitous hardware (in this case personal computers), the low-end essential parts (CPU) has enough processing power that adding anything extra becomes completely unnecessary.
For example, games like Angry Bird or Candy Crush can be handled completely by low-end CPU + integrated graphics, or even mobile phones. Making use of extra GPU may make the game fancier but devs won't bother because the experience achievable by utilizing low-end hardware is "good enough" and anything extra is pretty much futile.
I think the day will come that the above shall be applied to all types of games. I just think we won't reach that state for extra generation or two.
I must admit I made the switch to PC gaming a couple of years back and I've never been tempted to go back. Aside from the odd shitty port, I find that everything I play runs better on my PC. I don't really understand why people find it difficult to put a basic gaming rig together. Honestly putting lego together is more difficult. Also anybody claiming that consoles are better value for money are full of shit. While the initial outlay for a gaming PC might be more expensive than a console, software is generally available much cheaper on PC. If I tallied a years worth of steam purchases over a years worth of console game purchases, I have no doubt the console games would be significantly more expensive.
That's not to say consoles have no use to me. I own a PS3 but use it mainly as a media player. I also own a Wii U but this is primarily for local multiplayer like Smash, or MK8.
For the rest of my gaming needs though, PC is boss. I will eventually pick up a PS4 but I've yet to see a killer app that I desperately need (which isn't already on PC anyway).
That's not to say consoles have no use to me. I own a PS3 but use it mainly as a media player. I also own a Wii U but this is primarily for local multiplayer like Smash, or MK8.
For the rest of my gaming needs though, PC is boss. I will eventually pick up a PS4 but I've yet to see a killer app that I desperately need (which isn't already on PC anyway).
Death is always a little too strong of a word to use, but a few years ago I predicted that consoles were in for a rough patch. Now I am not so sure as on one hand like others have said hardware sales are pretty good. On the other hand though most if not all the NPD threads I looked at showed software sales were down year over year which seems bad to me.
Aurean_Mentat
Member
The biggest reason why I think consoles won't die is a situation I was in recently regarding the Witcher 3.
First off, I want the Witcher 3. Second, I built my PC 3 years ago. The requirements for the Witcher 3 are such to where I would need around a 250+ dollar graphics card, then update my processor, and likely the RAM. And no, my computer does not meet the minimum requirements (barely doesn't).
Or, I could just buy a PS4 that I got on a good deal for a little less than 330 dollars total, and play that, and Final Fantasy XV (which have not heard is coming to PC).
There are a lot of reasons to own a gaming PC, but I think its easy to forget that a ton of people on this board are enthusiasts (particularly tech enthusiasts) who know how to update drivers, how to go in and tweak BIOS settings, and a lot of other stuff to get PC games working right that a lot of people just don't know how to do. Even people who are up to date on the latest games (Believe me, I have helped a lot of them out with various tech/gaming issues). Whereas there are fewer reasons now to own a console than there were (since a console is just a fixed-spec PC), the sheer simplicity of purchase a console offers still isn't rivaled by PCs yet.
Funny side story: Was just in Best Buy, where they were selling some gaming PCs. They didn't list what kind of graphics card was in them (or how powerful it was).
I have hope that Steam Machines will do something about this, but they really needed to come out last year. Also, I think a guaranteed rate of return would be nice. Like say, "Buy this Steam Machine now, and we will make sure that it can run the latest PC games well for the next X years". That's consoles biggest selling point right now (and the occasional console exclusive) IMO.
First off, I want the Witcher 3. Second, I built my PC 3 years ago. The requirements for the Witcher 3 are such to where I would need around a 250+ dollar graphics card, then update my processor, and likely the RAM. And no, my computer does not meet the minimum requirements (barely doesn't).
Or, I could just buy a PS4 that I got on a good deal for a little less than 330 dollars total, and play that, and Final Fantasy XV (which have not heard is coming to PC).
There are a lot of reasons to own a gaming PC, but I think its easy to forget that a ton of people on this board are enthusiasts (particularly tech enthusiasts) who know how to update drivers, how to go in and tweak BIOS settings, and a lot of other stuff to get PC games working right that a lot of people just don't know how to do. Even people who are up to date on the latest games (Believe me, I have helped a lot of them out with various tech/gaming issues). Whereas there are fewer reasons now to own a console than there were (since a console is just a fixed-spec PC), the sheer simplicity of purchase a console offers still isn't rivaled by PCs yet.
Funny side story: Was just in Best Buy, where they were selling some gaming PCs. They didn't list what kind of graphics card was in them (or how powerful it was).
I have hope that Steam Machines will do something about this, but they really needed to come out last year. Also, I think a guaranteed rate of return would be nice. Like say, "Buy this Steam Machine now, and we will make sure that it can run the latest PC games well for the next X years". That's consoles biggest selling point right now (and the occasional console exclusive) IMO.
njean777
Member
It isn't as easy as you are describing either. What if those nvidia drivers mess up a game you are playing, now you have to roll back (most people don't know how to), what if that game you install on steam launches then instantly crashes now you have to verify or redownload it all again. Or when a driver installs and messes up then your pc blue screens over and over? Or when a game doesn't have gamepad support and now you have to go download a specific app and then toggle with it to work? Or when you get a shoddy port that needs to be fiddled with in order to work? Or when something hardware wise breaks? Now you have to trouble shoot your hardware (which can be a problem for consoles also).
All of those are easy for you and me to fix sure, but for the masses? no it isn't. I have met way to many people that do not know anything about technology and sadly some of them are younger than me, or my age. For example I actually have had somebody ask me if a computer can run Google... I was shocked (she was around the age of 12-14 btw), but selling Computers at Best Buy will open your world view up to just how ignorant people are of computers in general.
Um, the point went entirely over both of your heads. The things I point out why console is better than PC is the same on Mac as on Windows (having to worry about specs and keeping up with the latest hardware). In fact, it's worse on Windows as there are more configuartions so software is not going to list them all but tell you an "equivelant". At least with Mac there is a lot less variation so some games actually just say "Macs of this year or newer" (much simplier than trying to figure out if your video card is equivelant or better than what they list).
All Mac is is a PC with a different OS (and a lot less hardware configurations but still more hardware configurations than consoles. Windows is actually worse than Mac for what I'm talking about. And if you want to argue it's a better gaming machine, once again,r ead me again cause that's not what I'm arguing here. Of course Windows is better for games. I'm talking about it's less simple for figuring out what you need to play because there is so many different configurations. Too many for game developers to list every single graphics card will work but rather just trust you know the latest graphics card and what is equivelant. Same as with processors).
I think what you guys miss is a console has *one* configuration. So when a game says it works on PS4, it works on PS4. There's no need to figure out if your particular PS4 meets the specs.
You probably have a really good PC that is pretty up to date at the moment. That's built for gaming. And you'll still have to worry in the future if those specs are still good. Hell, I have a pretty new computer, but yes, it's a Mac, and it's a laptop. So it doesn't have such a good graphics card (and an OS that isn't so efficient for games). So that means if I want to play a game I gotta look at the specs and see if my computer can run it. And then worry even if it can if it can run it at a level that is acceptable to me.
Where as with my console I can read reviews and they will be relatively reliable on how well it actually runs on my console. I don't have to worry if I have a good enough graphics card or processor. I just need to know that I have a PS4 and if it says PS4 it should run as well as what reviewers say (who will have reviewed a PS4 specific game).
Once again, see above.
I think you PC people take for granted that you have good PCs that are good enough you don't have to worry about that. And you are willing to put one together and figure out all the best stuff. I personally find figuring out hardware boring as f*ck and I don't really want to sit there researching what is the best to put together nor put one together. Nor do I have hte money for that. A 400 dollar PS4 is already a lot of money for me. And I definitely don't want to have to worry that in a year or two I might have to upgrade it again (especially if I don't have the money to buy top of the line now).
All I'm saying is that if you want to claim that PC is going to take over consoles, you have to take into consideration what console players are buying consoles for. And it's not to have top of hte line graphics and the best game player ever. They're willing for compromises either due to laziness or computers confusing them (and they don't want to ahve to worry about if their computer will play it or what they need to put together to have a good game machine).
Again, we come to the fundamental crux of the matter. A PC as a first choice platform is that of an enthusiast. What you're basically saying is you are ignorant to the workings of a PC at the most simplistic level and do not want to spend even the most remote amount of time to understand them. Your interest in the medium is not invested enough to deem performance, variety, customisation, modding or the long term price implication worth spending the time to learn the most entry level elements of a computer.
That is your choice, but people need to stop passing off their own inability or unwillingness to educate themselves as some form of incredible barrier of complexity, inherent to the PC. It simply, is not true.
The main issue of course, is the absolutely horrid performance levels of the new consoles. They are simply woeful in comparison to reasonably high end PCs around the £650-800 mark. There is no pretend "get out jail" card to play this time. They cannot hide behind ideas of architecture or whatever other nonsense, they are simply poor from the get go. Exclusivity has gone out the window with the trend of nearly everything being released for windows alongside or after a short delay of the console versions. There are even fewer reasons to purchase one if you haven't already jumped on board.
ohh don't you worry, they getting there.
I am the Law
Banned
The comments on threads like this never disappoint. Thanks GAF.
How very vague and utterly pointless, thank you.
lifeexpectancy
Member
OMG, god tier 1stpost. One of the best ever.
People keep spouting death of consoles. Been hearing that nonsense since PS1 days. Get over it. Consoles are selling better than ever.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Jeff nooo bro! I usually feel and agree with everything you say and enjoy reading your post but you lost me with this thread. There is so much money being made with consoles so why would they die now? Sony and Microsoft are both making some nice cash off of these machines so why would they not want to capitalize off as many sales as they can this gen and head to the drawing board to create a even better console for the next gen that can bring them in even more cash?
Sparrowhawk
Member
To this day, when I tell some of my friends that I'm going to buy a game on PC instead of PS4/Xbone, they seem dumbfounded. I don't think consoles are going anywhere for a while.
Besides, if PC gaming is what kills consoles, mobile gaming is what will kill PC gaming.
Besides, if PC gaming is what kills consoles, mobile gaming is what will kill PC gaming.