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[tkscz]

A gen has never been defined by power. Show me a case where a console that has exceeded its rivals in power within the same competing timeframe that has been next gen at the time.

Was the n64 a gen above ps1 ?
Or the 3do being 6th gen?

By saying the WiiU is current gen, you are basing it on power. This has never been the case. Unless you can give me an example?

This was only "the case" starting in Generation 7 (or this gen) when the Wii came out. The Wii is, in all honesty, a Gamecube that has been overclocked, had more pipes added and given new RAM. Because it was so much weaker, people thought it shouldn't be considered apart of generation 7. Again, ignoring how much weaker the PS2 was to the Gamecube and Xbox, or even your examples.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Then why is it when the industry announced a title for next gen consoles it never included the Wii?

Marketing.

It is being thrown around as a power term for marketing. It has never related to that when reffering to video game generations.

 

[Eusis]

funny enough that tablet is barely using current gen tab hardware

Given it's literally a controller with a touchscreen and wireless receiver built in by all rights it's the SKELETON of a tablet.

 

[jerd]

funny enough that tablet is barely using current gen tab hardware

Not a tablet in any way though

Maybe I'm just weird, but I have always based console generations on relative power. This has been the case since I was a kid.

In my mind, the Gamecube and Wii are both the same generation, with the Wii U joining the PS3 and 360 as "current gen".

There are a lot of different opinions on the subject, more than I had previously thought. Because there doesn't seem to be a clear cut defined generation line, I'm going to change my answer to the same one I use for all opinions. Everybody is right.

 

[Boogybro]

funny enough that tablet is barely using current gen tab hardware

Vita is last gen because it isn't as powerful as my 360.

 

[Alexios]

Wow @ this thread. If you're smarter or more skilled in some things than your twin brother who does better in other things and is perhaps taller or more muscular or whatever, that doesn't make you part of different generations, folks. Seriously. Also, the WiiU does things no other system before it did to that extent. Whether it's the things you want or not don't disqualify it from being a new system part of the next (soon current) generation alongside whatever Microsoft and Sony will put out. Its level of success (so if it gets ports or not) won't determine its status either, as it didn't for the Dreamcast, which wasn't kin to Saturn/PS1, but to PS2 etc and as it doesn't for the Vita (it won't suddenly turn next/current gen if it starts doing better and getting more games, it already is).

@MasLegio, no, it doesn't have current "tab" hardware because a) it's actually a gamepad, and b) the whole point is the console does the processing, so it barely has any hardware. Maybe you should look into what you're trying to ridicule a little bit beforehand.

Nothing stops Microsoft or Sony from using the latest (and greatest, not just in features but performance as well) PC hardware to do their next systems either, outside financial viability and intended goals, so saying consoles have a given generational hardware level that sets them apart from PC and leaves WiiU only behind is silly too. They all decide what to put in their systems with the same criteria, ie, what's best for the company, not what's truly the latest and greatest technology around.

 

[Perkel]

Nope.

Generation has never been associated with power - its meaning really is just time - as in the next or the one that proceeds it.

I mean, with that logic, PS2 doesn't belong in DC/GC/XBox generation.

Because it was decided by games not by hardware in the end. All of them scaled back to PS2 because PS2 had best marketshare and sometimes they released trully better than last gen games.

As of Xbox it was exactly where Wii U is standing as of know. It has better power and some features but when next consoles rolled (ps3 and x360) in the end it was too little to call it next gen. But it was middle gen to me. Xbox problem was that it wasn't just that much power to loose those shackles of last gen.

By definition, the next gen is the 8th gen. WiiU is 8th gen, and so is next gen, regardless of power.

This has been muddied by pc.
Technically, pc is part of no video game gen. Pc gamers have often described their position in this video game gen, as 'next gen'
This is simply incorrect, and has confused matters by linking a gen to power.
Pc has generations of video cards, but no video game gens in the same way as consoles.
A gen is only defined by the current series of platforms released by all parties. Next gen is when they are released again.

Personally. Next gen only exists when ALL platforms have been released, but begins with the first. This position is up for debate though, as not everyone agrees.

PC is different because there is no hardware leaps it progress yearly. Games matter the most. We can thanks to games tell that current generation of games started something like 2004 with Far Cry, Half-Life2 and Doom3 and last gen started with quake2 and unreal.

So from 1995-1996 started generation of early 3D and it matured in 2004-2005.

 

[batbeg]

funny enough that tablet is barely using current gen tab hardware

It... I... Wha...

I think I just had an aneurysm.

 

[Famassu]

why its a shitty example??

if i do exactly what i wrote,will that be a next gen console?

yes or no

some believe yes others say no.

1) what you described will never ever happen, so it's a shitty & unrealistic "what if" argument that has no basis in reality.

2) Wii U HAS NEW HARDWARE, it's a significant jump over Nintendo's previous console AND it's the NEXT console from Nintendo. It's a next generation console in the true meaning of the phrase (hardware power has very little meaning in it).

Console generations are measured in the time/successor POV. Because Wii U is released after Wii (a seventh generation console), which was released after GameCube (a sixth generation console), it's a console of the 8th generation. I can't understand how it's that hard of a concept to grasp.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Couldn't agree more. I'm surprised that so many people think it's next-gen.

There's nothing to "think", it's not up to you or me. It's simply a matter of Wii U being the 6th Nintendo mainline home console, and their first belonged to the third generation of home consoles.

 

[sTeLioSco]

Wow @ this thread. If you're smarter or more skilled in some things than your twin brother who does better in other things and is perhaps taller or more muscular or whatever, that doesn't make you part of different generations, folks.

dont categorize man-made devices that way.

 

[Majine]

What if PS4 and 720 comes out in like 4 years? Are they considered in the same gen as Wii U, or are they part of their own gen? I think measuring in capability seems more consistent.

 

[mclaren777]

That makes perfect sense and so does another way of looking at things : by release date.

I don't see the release date as a valid method, especially not compared to relative power.

In my mind, relative power corresponds well to overall desirability, which is why the Gamecube and Wii both compare well to the PS2 and original Xbox. Not being able to output resolutions higher than 480p make them both firmly "last gen" in my eyes.

 

[elrechazado]

Not sure if trolling, but your parents belong to a generation, you belong to a generation and your children will belong to a generation. The Wii U is the first next-gen home console.

not based on hardware

 

[BibiMaghoo]

This was only "the case" starting in Generation 7 (or this gen) when the Wii came out. The Wii is, in all honesty, a Gamecube that has been overclocked, had more pipes added and given new RAM. Because it was so much weaker, people thought it shouldn't be considered apart of generation 7. Again, ignoring how much weaker the PS2 was to the Gamecube and Xbox, or even your examples.

Do you remember the time we referred to consoles by bits?

Nes was 8 bit.
Snes was the next gen at 16 bit.
Ps1 came in at 32 bit.
Then bam, same gen console hits at 64 bit.
What about the Jaguar?

Was this ever claimed to be next gen? No, because it came out at the same time. It was directly competing with others in the same window.

 

[sTeLioSco]

1) what you described will never ever happen, so it's a shitty & unrealistic "what if" argument that has no basis in reality.

2) Wii U HAS NEW HARDWARE, it's a significant jump over Nintendo's previous console AND it's the NEXT console from Nintendo. It's a next generation console in the true meaning of the phrase (hardware power has very little meaning in it).

Console generations are measured in the time/successor POV. Because Wii U is released after Wii (a seventh generation console), which was released after GameCube (a sixth generation console), it's a console of the 8th generation. I can't understand how it's that hard of a concept to grasp.

1) lol. did you ever heard of "hypothesis" in science?

2) for all we know it could have nasa equivalent supercomputers.
but noone sees any difference from todays console technology.

 

[batbeg]

1) lol. did you ever heard of "hypothesis" in science?

2) for all we know it could have nasa equivalent supercomputers.
but noone sees any difference from todays sold console technology.
the consumer sees what it gets.

That word you used. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[tkscz]

dont categorize man-made devices that way.

Ok, again, the PS2 coudln't prodcue the level of shaders or polygons that the gamecube and Xbox could. Compare Splinter Cell Xbox to PS2 and RE4 Gamecube to PS2 and you'll see a huge difference. The PS2 would never be able to handle games like Riddic or Rouge Squadrin without the developers sacrificing a lot to get it to run.

So tell me, what generaiton is the PS2 in?

2) for all we know it could have nasa equivalent supercomputers.
but noone sees any difference from todays console technology.

It has two gigs of RAM, and has a GPGPU that is at least 2 generaitons ahead of whats in the PS360. So far all it's getting are ports and most 360 games at launch did not look like huge achievements either (Kameo compared to Conker Live and Reloaded).

 

[cajunator]

ok then,thanks for your answer and tonight ill make a special prayer and thank god that earths technology and innovation isn't at the hands of nintendo fanboys.

enjoy old gen games like assasins creed 3 and batman arkham city on your fresh next gen console....



no,it just uses current gen technology on a product marketed as next-gen.

I would prefer to enjoy Bayonetta 2.
Never liked Assassins Creed or the Batman games.

 

[cloudyy]

What if PS4 and 720 comes out in like 4 years? Are they considered in the same gen as Wii U, or are they part of their own gen? I think measuring in capability seems more consistent.

They'll be a new gen since console lifecycle is usually around 5 years.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

PC is different because there is no hardware leaps it progress yearly. Games matter the most. We can thanks to games tell that current generation of games started something like 2004 with Far Cry, Half-Life2 and Doom3 and last gen started with quake2 and unreal.

So from 1995-1996 started generation of early 3D and it matured in 2004-2005.

Pc is constantly evolving and is not restricted by hardware runs that last for almost a decade. By the same token, it cannot be part of any video game generation for this reason. Pc games are never next gen or last, they are simply current at all times.

 

[Majine]

They'll be a new gen since console lifecycle is usually around 5 years.

Not this (past) gen.

 

[Eusis]

I don't think hardware's the right way to go with consoles. Maybe for phones or appliances, but a lot of what defines a system are their libraries and the times those games came from. So, yeah, you could probably argue the HARDWARE is last generation (most likely multiple generations behind really since it'd only be fair to use computers as a benchmark), but it'll be receiving games from 2012-2018 or whatever, likely with not-insignificant overlap from the next Playstation/Xbox. So, yeah, it's an 8th generation console, regardless of where the hardware ultimately falls (at worst it seems like it'd be falling into the bridging zone the Dreamcast did.)

 

[Boogybro]

I don't see the release date as a valid method, especially not compared to relative power.

So the PSVita isn't even current gen then. Got it.

 

[sTeLioSco]

I would prefer to enjoy Bayonetta 2.
Never liked Assassins Creed or the Batman games.

and so did you played bayoneta 1 on the wii if it its current gen and runs current software?

 

[mclaren777]

So the PSVita isn't even current gen then. Got it.

Handhelds aren't part of console generations.

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

These threads feel like rocket scientists arguing with:

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Ah well, this thread went to hell quickly. Almost everyone misunderstood the OP and this turned into a pointless massive flame war where people try to convince trolls. Any mod can feel free to close the thread down if that mod sees it necessary.

 

[jerd]

and so did you played bayoneta 1 on the wii if it its current gen and runs current software?

So then by this token you must have played RE4, Killer 7, or Okami on your OG Xbox then right?

 

[Vilam]

It is being thrown around as a power term for marketing. It has never related to that when reffering to video game generations.

No, not marketing. The only logical way to lump consoles together into a generation has to be a combination of release date and specs. Wii U will end up being some weird outlier the same way Wii and Dreamcast were in that regard.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Because it was decided by games not by hardware in the end. All of them scaled back to PS2 because PS2 had best marketshare and sometimes they released trully better than last gen games.

As of Xbox it was exactly where Wii U is standing as of know. It has better power and some features but when next consoles rolled (ps3 and x360) in the end it was too little to call it next gen. But it was middle gen to me. Xbox problem was that it wasn't just that much power to loose those shackles of last gen.

But regardless on what XBox did, it IS associated with the generation that the PS2 and GC belonged to. Regardless of the games or regardless of the market, time still is the basis for generation.

 

[Boogybro]

and so did you played bayoneta 1 on the wii if it its current gen and runs current software?

By the same token, could you play galaxy on the 360/PS3?

Last gen tech!

Handhelds aren't part of console generations.

We're sub-categorizing generations now?

 

[tkscz]

I don't see the release date as a valid method, especially not compared to relative power.

And I don't see power as a valid method as it tends to be all over the place when it comes to consoles.

 

[Makonero]

My head is spinning from all the talking in circles.

 

[cloudyy]

Not this (past) gen.

360 was released about 6 years ago, you add the 4 years delay of your hypothesis and you'll get 10 years, which is basically 2 gens. Not sure what you're arguing about.

 

[cajunator]

and so did you played bayoneta 1 on the wii if it its current gen and runs current software?

No, I played it on 360.
I didnt want the Ps3 version because the demo was kind of choppy and looked a bit washed out. given the choice I went with 360.

 

[Zombie James]

There are two important questions I ask when I question whether console is "next-gen" or not:

• Is the new hardware a significant improvement over it's predecessor?
• Is the new hardware a significant improvement over the competition of the time?

I saw the Dreamcast mentioned a few times as some sort of half-step. I disagree. It was a significant improvement over the PSX/N64 and was the start of a new generation, and while Sony, MS, and Nintendo released better hardware a year or two later they were still in the same relative ballpark. If Sega had released a slightly better Saturn instead, I don't think there would be a debate.

The Wii U is a tricky thing to debate (obviously), but to me it only satisfies half of the requirement. If this was the handheld market of 13 years ago and Nintendo had no competition, this would be a full generational leap (like Gameboy to GBA). But they're not in that situation here. They have competitors and the Wii U only brings Nintendo up the current standard we've been enjoying for 6+ years now. Is the hardware better than the competition? By most accounts, yes, but is it a technological leap like the Dreamcast was compared to the competition of the time? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Eusis]

And I don't see power as a valid method as it tends to be all over the place when it comes to consoles.

For all we know games may more easily scale down to Wii U anyway, thus making it more akin to PS2 vs Xbox than Wii vs PS3/360.

 

[sTeLioSco]

So then by this token you must have played RE4, Killer 7, or Okami on your OG Xbox then right?

xbox can run re4 but just wasnt released on it.ps2 could

wii is a previous step behind.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

and so did you played bayoneta 1 on the wii if it its current gen and runs current software?

Most likely he played bayonetta on a xbox 360 (god forbid the ps3 version) bayonetta was also made in the same generation as super mario galaxy and skyward sword.

Since rayman origins was also on Wii I guess some of you do dos think ps360 had a last generation game. Thats a damn shame.

 

[bryehn]

funny enough that tablet is barely using current gen tab hardware

I'd argue it's behind given it's paltry resolution and resistive single touch screen.

 

[Boss Doggie]

...and people still call the controller a tablet.

xbox can run re4 but just wasnt released on it.ps2 could

wii is a previous step behind.

Oh god this reply and the "point" he is trying to prove are making my head hurt.

 

[BlackJace]

Ah well, this thread went to hell quickly. Almost everyone misunderstood the OP and this turned into a pointless massive flame war where people try to convince trolls. Any mod can feel free to close the thread down if that mod sees it necessary.

You honestly didn't see this coming?

 

[Sadist]

Honestly OP, I think it's a pointless discussion and looking at the current flamewars the definition needs to die a quick and painless death. The word itself was never more than an obvious marketing ploy.

 

[Perkel]

I love those 8th 7th generation arguments when people don't know why we started to use those therms in the begging.

We started to number generations because we wanted to have clear devide that 7th is worse than 8th without 100mhz worse or better.

Wii fucked things over and people started to call any new console next gen.

It's complete package of hardware, games, time and marketshare and not some numerological time frame that tells you nothing. Because it was created to categorize consoles in therms of overall package to get thin clear understanding that 5th generation is vastly better or different than 4th.

 

[urfe]

The confusion comes from the term "next-gen graphics". There's people that can't get over this term, and it makes them not be able to understand a generation is a time thing.

Which word definition should we debate next? How about "sound"? I think sometimes sight is still in fact sound.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

No, not marketing. The only logical way to lump consoles together into a generation has to be a combination of release date and specs. Wii U will end up being some weird outlier the same way Wii and Dreamcast were in that regard.

So you consider the Wii a 6th gen machine?
Or have nintendo released multiple consoles within a gen?

What gen do you consider the n64 and gamecube then?

A gen cannot be set by power. It never has been.

 

[Makonero]

Just so we're clear, is the Wii a 6th gen console or 7th gen console?

I think it is pretty obvious that the Wii competed directly against the 360 and PS3, making it a 7th gen console, but then you never know...

 

[jerd]

I'm going to reiterate this before I go to bed, no matter what your opinion, you must have clearly defined lines. Based on the power opinion, considering the Wii U is more powerful than 360 and PS3, why is it not powerful enough to be next gen? Where is that line drawn?

On the timeline opinion, when does the generation shift begin? If Wii U was released in 2009, what gen would it be?

 

[abstract alien]

Why does raw power mean so much? I know we all have our own priorities as to what is most important to our next generation systems, but why does horsepower carry so much weight as opposed to innovation? Neither have nothing to do with how "next gen" a system is, yet power is ALWAYS seen as next gen, and innovation is always seen as a gimmick. Why does power mean so much in this specific term, when it's not any factor at all on next gen labeling?

I'm talking about gaf specifically. I don't expect the masses to know anything from anything, but surely we know what next generation means, right?