You're not getting it. The next gen moniker isn't in reference to how consoles released in the same period of time compare against each other, it refers to how that generation of consoles compares to the previous generation. Even though the Xbox was significantly more powerful than the PS2, they were both by every definition a significant leap over the previous generation, thus they were both considered next gen at the time and a part of the same gen as each other.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The definition of "last generation"
- Thread starter LonelyGreyWolf
- Start date
You're not getting it. The next gen moniker isn't in reference to how consoles released in the same period of time compare against each other, it refers to how that generation of consoles compares to the previous generation. Even though the Xbox was significantly more powerful than the PS2, they were both by every definition a significant leap over the previous generation, thus they were both considered next gen at the time and a part of the same gen as each other.
Yes, but it seems you do not. Your "hypothesis" is a completely unrealistic one (usually they at least have some basis in reality), which has no relation to anything that is happening in the real world. Your example is also not in any way the same as what Nintendo is doing with the Wii U. You compare getting some old parts and putting them into a box (so, basically, you are compiling an old school computer, not R&Ding completely new hardware) the same as Nintendo coming up & manufacturing new custom hardware that is significantly more powerful than their last hardware & offers a new way of control for games. One does not advance in any way, the other in multiple ways.
I see it running games that Wii never could and has new technology Wii never did, hence it's Nintendo's next generation console. What YOU perceive as "next-gen" (as if it's some "MY games can have this much particles and has so and so many pixels" way of classification) is nothing but the effect of marketing from publishers during this generation. They wanted to sell their expensive games and by touting "NEXT-GEN GRAPHIXXXXXX" everywhere they got people hyped & buying their products.
SNES/Mega Drive is a generation of consoles
PS1/N64/Saturn is a generation of consoles
PS2/DC/GC/Xbox is a generation of consoles
Wii/PS3/Xbox 360 is a generation of consoles
These all because they were released at roughly the same time period and they were competing with each other for market share and really has nothing to do with their hardware.
Most likely, as the WiiU is now in full HD and can handle much of what developers throw at it.
Scaling down is much easier with similar tech (all HS as opposed to HD > SD stepdown)
I think most people knew precisely how the answers would go.
A next generation console is literally the next generation hardware from a manufacturer. The timing is not important, nor is the power. Its just determined by placement in a succession.
NES > SNES > N64 > Gamecube > Wii > WiiU
WiiU is the next generation of nintendo consoles. Xbox720 is the next generation of MS console and Ps4 is the next generation of Playstation. Everything else is a fanboy delusion or twisting meanings. Its pretty much a tired argument and I honestly wonder how old people are who continually argue about this or if they even own all the consoles to begin with.
Games are games. If you like a game and want to play it, buy the console it plays on. Dont beg, dont plead, just fucking buy it and move on with life.
Honestly Im not sure why I even bothered posting all of this because it feels like yelling at a wall.
Ask yourself this question. When the Next Playstation and the Next Xbox are out and you look back on the previous generation, you would call it the Generation of ________.
You could call it the HD Generation, or the Digital Generation, or the Call of Duty generation, or the Wow Gen, or you could call it the Motion Controls Generation. Because all of these things added to the general perception of the major things happening in gaming over that time span. All these trends happened during a similar time frame and thus are part of a generation! To believe that the tremendous influence the Wii and motion gaming had this generation doesn't count because it's hardware is old is ridiculous.
You could call it the HD Generation, or the Digital Generation, or the Call of Duty generation, or the Wow Gen, or you could call it the Motion Controls Generation. Because all of these things added to the general perception of the major things happening in gaming over that time span. All these trends happened during a similar time frame and thus are part of a generation! To believe that the tremendous influence the Wii and motion gaming had this generation doesn't count because it's hardware is old is ridiculous.
tkscz
Member
Even going by your logic (which is good logic I must say), release time is the most important out of those, while hardware is the least. Again, console hardware tends to be all over the place, with no clear cut answer. But most people here are ONLY going by power and hardware. If I had to choose between them and not use your, quite geneius, method of mixing them, then I'd choose time/successor because it makes more sense.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
You do realize it was used even before (as someone posted to me), and it was merely used as pure marketing?
Because it should be clear difference. Not some 1 or two games or shadow there and one few lights more.
Games decide in my opinion what is called next gen and what's not.
Xbox was weird in that aspect but it was never really any close to x360 that is why it was categorized as last gen not current gen. Not having HD ouput also was part of that.
GuessMyUserName
Member
Haven't any of you here played Tokyo Jungle?
You know when you get your Pomeranian/Panther/Crocodile/Chimp/Hippo/Bear/Tiger/etc to made, and it says you're on your [n+1] generation of that animal?
That's how generations works. Yep, the console wars are just part of the Tokyo Jungle... Although when I got to 99 Panthers it stopped increasing the generational counter, so I guess there will be a time when something new will not be next gen... but that's a LONG ways off, we're still coming up on Gen 8 now.
You know when you get your Pomeranian/Panther/Crocodile/Chimp/Hippo/Bear/Tiger/etc to made, and it says you're on your [n+1] generation of that animal?
That's how generations works. Yep, the console wars are just part of the Tokyo Jungle... Although when I got to 99 Panthers it stopped increasing the generational counter, so I guess there will be a time when something new will not be next gen... but that's a LONG ways off, we're still coming up on Gen 8 now.
When I mentioned people that confused from terms like "next-gen graphics", I was referring to people like this.
By me thinking Wii U is next-gen (for another month), I am not saying any opinion on its power at all. I am saying that it's Nintendo's new console that has not yet been released.
Why not? They just have a longer lifespan, but they still start their existence and will share the same events during a certain console generation. Maybe it's because they don't dictate the console generation as strongly since they'll always been looked as a second choice for gaming.
Generations are dictated by the average lifespan of consoles which has mostly been around 5 years. 86, 91, 96, 2001, 2006, 2011.
Wii is arguably more than a step behind. Xbox could have run RE4 better than either of the other two consoles. My point was that you cannot say that the consoles are not in the same gen because certain games were not released on them. I'm not sure why I'm trying, but I'm attempting to convince others that it isn't all about the graphical power of a console. Though I probably won't be getting a Wii U for now, I'm a fan of what Nintendo is doing to try to freshen up the market. To me, it seems like even GAF hates video games these days. We are in the middle of the third generation of practically the same control schemes. Before 6th gen, every gen had a pretty big improvement in control method, but we have been using practically the same controllers for 15 years. Nintendo is just trying to freshen things up a little it seems. We really don't need 3 competing home consoles that are near identical anyway, regardless of their generation. It is good for the industry.
I don't even agree with some of my arguments in this thread, I just like to see people trying to think outside of the box
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Erhem. Speaking as one of these "middle-aged and older" people you refer to I wouldn't think that the younger generation (or in my case generations) are any more educated, modern or wordly wise than I am - certainly not that they are better than me in any sense.
Probably no worse either.
But what makes them next generation is they are a hell of a lot younger. That's all. Plus they think they know it all, but that's not anything new either.
tkscz
Member
That opens up a whole nother can of worms. Basically, you've mixed the two methods used here, time and power. Again, I'm not against that, in fact it's a very logic way to look at it, but I will always go with time over power. It just makes more sense.
abstract alien
Member
So if I have a grandkid and he doesn't amount to shit in his life, he is a part of the same generation as me? What lol. Does that mean he is a step kid until he does well?
Wii U will be the start of the next generation. PS4, next Xbox, will join later.
Wii/Xbox 360/PS3 will be the last generation.
Hardware power doesn't mean anything to me, time matters the most.
And I don't see how anyone can exclude the Wii from a generation that had all three console makers trying to push motion controls (two with more success than the other).
Wii/Xbox 360/PS3 will be the last generation.
Hardware power doesn't mean anything to me, time matters the most.
And I don't see how anyone can exclude the Wii from a generation that had all three console makers trying to push motion controls (two with more success than the other).
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Lmao, missed that post before, Perkel deserves an awesome tag for it.
tkscz
Member
Oh the PS2 did run RE4, just like the Wii ran Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
BOOM!
Than i will ask you how you describe PS3 superslim ? it has almost the same games as WiiU it's released in same timeframe.
It is clear that numerological categorization is correlated to hardware, games and overall package not only by time-frame. Same is for phones or other hardware. It's leap in overall package decide what is generation and what is not.
This also why we won't use therm generation-leap for Wii U because it is not new generation.
A handheld is a "console", it is just a portable one, it isn't tiered next to the PS3/360/Wii, but it is still of the same generation. The Vita and 3DS are technically next-gen handhelds so are in the same generation as the WiiU and the PS3/720 will be, all of which will be 8th generation releases.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I hope nobody answers this seriously please.
No, it's because they start anew. They renew the cycle of life.
and the ps2 runs fifia 2010
along with wii and ps3.
but different versions for different generations.
tkscz
Member
That doesn't count as it's still the PS3. It's not a new console. The Wii-U is the successor to the Wii, the Wii was apart of generation 7, ergo, the WiiU is next gen, or generation 8. And going hardware wise, it uses more than twice the RAM, has a GPGPU that is at least 2 generations ahead, and has a CPU with better architechture (albiet lower clock speeds). Just saying.
PS3 Slim is still just a new iteration of PS3. While Wii U isn't 10 times more powerful than PS3, it's still completely new hardware (CPU-wise, GPU-wise AND controller-wise), meaning it's the next generation console from Nintendo.
GuessMyUserName
Member
As for the actually topic
I keep calling Wii/PS3/360 "current-gen" until they're mostly out of the spotlight. Right now Wii's passed but we're still waiting on at least one more to go with it, when the majority of the generation has faded that's when I call it last-gen. I keep calling Wii U/PS4/Nextbox "next-gen" until the current generation becomes last-gen.
Kinda like how people were calling PS360 "next-gen" for like 5 years after they released... except I stop at a reasonable point.
I keep calling Wii/PS3/360 "current-gen" until they're mostly out of the spotlight. Right now Wii's passed but we're still waiting on at least one more to go with it, when the majority of the generation has faded that's when I call it last-gen. I keep calling Wii U/PS4/Nextbox "next-gen" until the current generation becomes last-gen.
Kinda like how people were calling PS360 "next-gen" for like 5 years after they released... except I stop at a reasonable point.
nintendos next gen yes.
not for the whole console gaming industry.
if a company releases a snes equivalent console today it will probably be their next gen console if before that they made a nes equivalent console.
but it wont be a next gen console for the whole industry.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Also, RE: well the Wii didn't receive third party multi-release
I guess Dreamcast isn't part of the previous gen then?
Didn't you just use that argument before?
I guess Dreamcast isn't part of the previous gen then?
Didn't you just use that argument before?
Power can lead to innovation but it's on the devs to use it. Input devices that control worse than what we have now get called gimmicks.
Perkel said:
But the Wii U experience can not be replicated by current generation consoles. It OS something new - maybe not in terms of of horsepower, but rather control input, hardware size/efficiency, software library, and maybe other ways we haven't seen yet.
How is that not "new"? Even if the processing power is comparable, every system ever had more to offer than just that.
Nintendo's current gen console is a seventh gen console, meaning their next generation console is 8th, same as PS4 & Xbox 720 will be.
just like others still compare human children with hardware to specify what next gen is.
That wasn't my point
It's just that younger people are breed on computers, social sites. They can find job faster and better accustom to environment. Of course there are people that have no problem with this. But you know what i mean.As of they are better. I fully agree with that with each new generation people are better. Because they are. Just 100 years ago slavery was normal to people.
tkscz
Member
But, the PS3, the successor to the PS2, was already out. PS2 was last gen, while PS3 is current, ALONG WITH THE WII.
abstract alien
Member
I've seen gaf call anything that isn't a dual analog controller or KB/M a gimmick, no matter how good or bad they were. That is neither here nor there though, because it would still be next generation regardless of how well it did anything, be it horsepower or innovation.
Bony Manifesto
Member
It might make more sense now, and will allow you to be able to call your preferred console 'next-gen', but historically it would fuck things right up. In the early 80s there were new console releases every year, and there were frequently long gaps between the releases in different regions (if they were released worldwide at all). It's only really with hindsight that we look back on that time and say that the Famicom was the console that signalled the beginning of the third generation of consoles.
Okay, in the more recent generations, it's been quite easy to tell which console fits where, but I think these coming generations have the potential to be very awkward, what with Sony's and Microsoft's consoles having increased lifespans, while Nintendo stick to their five year plans. Whose release schedule will decide where one generation ends and the next begins?
Oh I agree, the Wii U is next gen. That can't really be argued unless you ignore the actual definition of video game generations.
That's also why I get a kick out of these threads. People you can still laugh and scoff at the Wii U and admit it's a new gen system. I'm sure none of that stopped anyone from making fun of the Wii.
That wasn't my point
As of they are better. I fully agree with that with each new generation people are better. Because they are. Just 100 years ago slavery was normal to people.
I'm pretty sure slavery was abolished in the States before 1912. And even earlier in the UK!
Generations don't take into account one company, while this is technically Sony's 3rd console we don't look at it like that, the PS3/360/Wii/PSP/DS are 7th generation releases, that doesn't mean it is their 7th device in a line, they all released as part of the 7th generation of console hardware regardless of the leap in power they might have.
The WiiU is next-gen, next-gen being the 8th generation, the 3DS and Vita are too 8th generation machines like the PS4/720 will be when they arrive.
Wii was released in 2006, so that's 6 years between Wii & Wii U. That and Sony & Microsoft's next consoles will likely be released within 1-1,5 years after Wii U, which isn't unprecedented for consoles of the same generation.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Except they do make sense.
Problem is RE4 PS2 RE4 GC were not that different. In these days it would be called multiplatform release where fifa2010 on ps2 is just different version of game.
Why do you use hardware to name which generation console is ? I thought people said that it is only timeframe what matter ?
/s
This is why you don't use timeframe to cathegorize what is next gen and what is not next gen. It's overall package of time hardware and most important aspect games.
so the new ps3 slim in your case is...?
its not a child(next gen) just a parent with heavy plastic surgery?
abstract alien
Member
Ok, so what about the 360 controller? It has less functionality than it's predecessor, yet came out on a later system. Should it be called a last gen controller? I personally don't think so, going off the definition, but it seems some of you would...
Bony Manifesto
Member
I was talking about the current generations, plural. I think it's only going to get further and further out of sync, and harder and harder for describe generations without using hindsight. Okay, it's a pretty good bet right now that Sony and Microsoft have new consoles they're announcing imminently, but what if they didn't? Or what if they were releasing in 2 or 3 years time, midway through the Wii U's probable lifespan? Would you still be so quick to describe the Wii U as next-gen?