Where do you get these things from. He is saying that he is annoyed by people that aggressively push the viewpoint "respect this with all your heart or you are an idiot".
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The Escapist hires on transphobic Brandon Morse
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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Where do you get these things from. He is saying that he is annoyed by people that aggressively push the viewpoint "respect this with all your heart or you are an idiot".
SomedayTheFire
Member
How is that irrelevant? That is the crux of the thread and discussion.
Its not irrelevant to the discussion, it is fundamental to it.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's pretty relevant, actually. You're claiming that you hold certain views... now, it's important to ask 'why'. Other people in this thread have elaborated upon why they have these views - namely, the science and the people behind the science have done research that helps us better understand what gender is. We've been able to explain our position, can you explain yours?
So he feels that if he calls someone by the appropriate gender, if he acknowledges the legitimacy of their gender identity, he is doing anything with his heart?
He literally only needs to say "I understand that gender is not physical" and to use the proper pronouns for trans men and women. The action that I described is beyond simple. He is actually putting more effort into pushing back than he would if he just did this one decent simple thing.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Yeah man, respecting other people is such a dick thing to do right? That probably one of the worst things you can do, respecting others and treating them with compassion.
They are not a minority. Plenty of people are not 'perfect' XY or XX.
XX male is generally 5 out of 100,000 births.
XXY can be as common as 1 out of every 500 male births, but it may not present in a way that many people even know they are XXY (most diagnosis comes in adulthood)
And they aren't what I would call exemptions. It's how biology works. It's not just two genders anywhere in nature. There are animals that can be both male and female, or start as female and grow into males, or the other way around. The rigidity of "born with dick = male, born with vagina = female" is a human social construct, not a biological one.
Not sure what you mean by this. Of course if you are born male and identify as male, you are male. Technically, though, we all start as female in the womb and only become male while developing throughout pregnancy via androgens, which continues after birth until our puberty is complete. This is also why if someone reveals they are transgendered at a young age, we can actually postpone puberty so that transgendered persons can get enough time to receive treatment and grow into their actual identity.
ie, a transwoman can get treatment and hormones to grow breasts and avoid masculinization of her body. A transman can get testosterone treatments and grow up in a body closer to his actual male identity. Not everyone opts for bottom surgery, so a lot of times this is enough for them.
Curious whether you think we should strive for a "Neutral Tone" on Climate Change Denialism? How about Homeopathy? How about Anti-Vaxxers to go with my previous comparison? How about Racism? Where would you say the Neutral Tone on Nazi Germany is?
Have a think on those because the result should be the same.
People can just be wrong. They can just be ignorant or they can be wilfully ignorant.
This guy isn't "Confused" about Transgender people. I've seen firsthand someone delivering to him a breakdown of the hard science on the matter, including sources to multiple national and international medical and psychological associations.
It's wilful ignorance, it's bigotry, it's hate-mongering, it's flat-out arseholery, and we shouldn't be pandering to it by trying to find some mythical neutral middle-ground between Right and Wrong.
It is obvious from this thread that his post has already made sense. He has a problem with people aggressively pushing "respect this idea with all your mind or you are an idiot".
How many people have been calling him asshole, idiot and so on from such a neutral comment. Of course transsexual people should have the same rights as other people - because they ARE HUMAN and they shall be treated as such.
But its totes cool to throw around the word nigger right?
Sometimes I want to be treated like royalty, is the other guy negatively judging me for not doing so?
You said it was negatively judging some as in racism, it simply isn't. Not giving someone a job because they are black is negatively judging.
Not referring to a man who has chosen to become a woman (believe they were born in the wrong body) as "sweetheart" isn't negatively judging them.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Wait, hold the fuckin' phone. First you say that using proper pronouns is doing something with all of his heart, now it's using all of his mind!? Christ, if you had told me that he would have had to basically devote his entire existence to super easy, uncomplicated things, I wouldn't have been so harsh!
Being treated as royalty is a privilege. Are you implying that being called by your preferred pronouns is a privilege?
An outlandish question, but I have seen enough people legitimately say that they will only call trans people by their proper gender if they are nice and/or if they are attractive, so...
SomedayTheFire
Member
But they are not, people like him are not treating transgendered individuals as every one else. He's going out of his way to be a piece of shit towards an oppressed group of people. It's not a neutral comment, it's a hate comment. He's actively discriminating.
BouncyFrag
Member
So what should happen in regards to this hiring?
I don't think anyone wants to be called sweetheart.
and you are negatively judging for the reasons other posters have already been stated.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I want to be called sweetheart, but that is neither here nor there.
EmpressInYellow
Banned
...where did "sweetheart" come from? How about "she" and "her"?
(and again, no one's "choosing" anything except whether or not to play the hand they've already been dealt.)
Nothing, Escapist have every right to hire this dickbag
and I have every right to stop giving Escapist clicks.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I play an exercise in work based around World War III and a nuclear holocaust where you and a group of people are in a bunker and in order to survive for longer, you have to decide to kick 7 from a list of 10 people out of the bunker, you're the last people alive and they have to decide between keeping people they have limited information on, like doctors, people with disabilities, priests, lawyers, a pregnant woman and her daughter etc.
There's no right answer to the question, in fact, I usually get a wide range of answers, but the whole exercise is based around justification. How do you justify keeping one person over another and I aggressively challenge them on it and have got into quite heated debates surrounding it.
Justification is key to holding an opinion. Opinions cost nothing, everybody can have one, but justification for the opinion is a whole different matter and it's why some people hold very weak or half-hearted opinions, because they find trouble justifying their opinions. That's why they become defensive or use poor debate techniques, because they can't justify why they believe such a thing.
Why do I get the feeling several people in this thread have a never actually talked to a transgender person in their life. I have a transgender friend and everyone I know calls them by their preferred he, doing otherwise would be rude and agressive. Imagine I came up to you and said my name was Charlie but you called me Steve cos you thought I look like a Steve and everyone else except you called me Charlie, I think you'd be rude prick.
Do people still not that biological sex =/= gender
Do people still not that biological sex =/= gender
UTII is a tough but stylish 80s cop from Miami.
Are you sure that's what people are asking or are they just asking to be treated like everyone else?
It's irrelevant to the discussion because the posts in the OP were not concerned with whether a man can become a woman or vice versa but with choosing not to bend over to the wishes of someone else when addressing them. Nor did I offer my opinion on the matter simply said I don't see an issue with his choice of addressing people.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I think this is a really crass and wrong comparison. Saying that you would not adress anyone by gender, but strictly by biological sex is not the same as saying that people who say that both do not match in their case are subhuman. The difference between these two things is so enormous that for a moment I was not even sure if your post was meant seriously.
dollartaco
Member
This guy seems like an enormous dickhead.
Unrelated: can stop assuming that skepticism regarding gender identification equals transphobia? One can be entirely accepting of the way another person identifies without needing to believe the world as they define it.
Unrelated: can stop assuming that skepticism regarding gender identification equals transphobia? One can be entirely accepting of the way another person identifies without needing to believe the world as they define it.
EmpressInYellow
Banned
Be that as it may, I refuse to call him Tubbs, because I won't be forced to accept anyone else's views.
Considering This Post:
And the fact that he started his first post with "Right From Post 10"
I think this dude may have actually just read the first 10 posts and has jumped right to the last page to argue exclusively about them.
Anyone responding to him regarding any of the 20 or so pages of context outside of those posts is simply pretending that context exists, and we should respect his choice not to "Pretend" along with us.
We should alternatively try to achieve a Neutral ground between the two equally valid viewpoints that the last 20 pages both do and do not exist.
I suggest a compromise that every second post's existence be acknowledged, but we can't question him when he refers to them as "Imaginary Posts" otherwise we'll be violating the very foundation of a free society.
SpaceCadetKeon
Banned
Oh, gee, pardon us Brandon for having the audacity to stand up for what should be basic human rights. Obviously we have inconvenienced you and we should all just shut the fuck up and continue putting up with the abuse just so you can go about your day being as intolerant as you like and not have to be bothered by big bad political correctness. Because clearly you're the real victim here.
Jesus Christ, I had never even heard of this guy until today and...wow...just wow. If dumbasses like him are what the Escapist are picking up, then I'm fucking done with that site. As far as I'm concerned, by hiring him they are only promoting transphobic behavior.
Jesus Christ, I had never even heard of this guy until today and...wow...just wow. If dumbasses like him are what the Escapist are picking up, then I'm fucking done with that site. As far as I'm concerned, by hiring him they are only promoting transphobic behavior.
valkillmore
Member
Does The Escapist not do any vetting of their candidates whatsoever? Having a hard time a guy would manage to get hired with his social media plastered with this bigoted shit.
Swop sweetheart for ma'am.
Again no its not, I described to you what negatively judging someone is based on race. Not calling someone ma'am or mister doesn't fall into that category.
EmpressInYellow
Banned
Yeah, well, times change, and those of us who are on the receiving end of his...let's charitably call them "attitudes"...are under no obligation to sit idly by and just take it.
You have a strong opinion on what is right and wrong, which is should but you seem blinded. Who is denying that the climate is changing? Sure the reasons for this are being scientifically debated and our best guess is carbon emission.
People who strive for anti-vacination have in my opinion some good points and bad points. Their good point is not allowing their children to be vaccinated with experimental drugs such as for the flu strains.
The "first" umbrella vaccination is in my opinion not a good idea to be opposed. But they have been frightened by the ignorant trials of bad vaccinations.
I am opposed racism and hate - but the problem is when is something hate and when is something just criticism or purely curiosity. We have the problem in our society that if we do not accept things wholeheartedly then we are bad. "You are either 100% with us or against us". Calm down, look positively at things.
hmm, good point, or bad point. I agree, or disagree. I don't even know anymore but either way this is something I will or won't be taking into consideration in the future
Dick Justice
Banned
Let Escapist hire him, at least it means another stupid cunt on the website that no one gives a fuck about.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It is exactly the same. Declaring that trans people are playing pretend is dehumanizing. Calling someone subhuman is dehumanizing. Denial of a person's identity is not only common and accepted in society, it is also destructive to the targets of that denial. A person can maintain a career while holding trans people as freaks or weirdos - you cannot hold a job as a racist (not often, anyway). This is not simply "ignorance" - Brandon is responding to the science and choosing to be ignorant. He does not want to acknowledge the legitimacy of their gender, and specifically goes out of his way to dehumanize trans people by disregarding their identity.
Trans people are among the most likely in society to attempt suicide, they are very common targets of violence and harassment considering how few there are in society, they are significantly more likely to become homeless. It is not crass to compare a socially acceptable viewpoint of trans people playing pretend as dehumanization, it is normal and the obvious reaction to such a statement.
Okay, first of all, how is calling someone by their preferred pronoun equate to any amount of "bending over" for them? Is calling me she and her like any other woman really equivalent to treating me like royalty, as you said earlier?
But most importantly, a basic societal rule you don't seem to understand is this: YES, You have to address people the way they want to be addressed. "Bending over to the wishes of someone else when addressing them" is something we all do with everybody, and this rule it unwritten because it's fucking obvious to anyone with even a tiny mote of tact and social awareness. If somebody doesn't like a nickname you give them, it's an asshole move to keep using it. It's an asshole move to not call somebody by their name, especially if it pisses them off. This is basic fucking courtesy, and I don't understand how it inconveniences you so much to follow a basic etiquette like this *only* if the person happens to be transgender.
Your beliefs about transgender people don't override your social duty to follow common courtesy.
SomedayTheFire
Member
You don't kow what transphobia is, you may not even know what real discrimination is. You can't just tell someone who opposes discrimination to "look positively" at things. That doesn't get rid of discrimination. Schools saying racism ended when slavery was outlawed doesn't mean racism is gone.
Again, what does this have to do with my point?
Not calling someone ma'am or mister when you absolutely know they wish to be called something else is completely a negative judgement. You are in effect washing over their identity to make sure they fit into your narrow rules. You are saying that their thoughts and opinions do not matter.
Then tell me, what is in your opinion transphobia?
EmpressInYellow
Banned
That's an easy position to take when you're not the one being actively demeaned, dehumanized, and marginalized, when you're not likely to be denied a job or housing or even a right to use the appropriate restroom in public because of the subject under discussion.
Some of us don't have the luxury of being so dispassionate and blasé about the whole thing.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Everything?
It's ironic because hes saying the exact same thing. It's not that i agree with him, but i don't like this internet justice in the form of personal vendettas unless there's some economic "fraud" involved or the person in question is an official.
I read a couple of pages - saw that the person in question had elaborated on his view point. Then some pages from there it was just regular discussion. I apologize if there is a comment from the guy which is strong in contrast to his "elaborated" answer.
And what a way to go down. Not elegantly with a stable of quality cult status content, but desperately attempting to appeal to a group of bigots.
Guess is a strong word, were pretty certain. There is an interesting, and relevant debate, in climate science that some feel science should speak for itself and scientists shouldn't be involved in policymaking but when there is a threat to civilisation itself it's hard to stay neutral.
In contrast it's all well and good to try and be neutral on discussions of genders but when a certain position treats people with disrespect and makes their lives worse it makes it much harder to be neutral.
EmpressInYellow
Banned
What personal vendettas? I refuse to visit the site. I'll call him an asshole online. That's pretty much the extent of it.
I don't feed my enemies. Now, you have to try pretty hard to reach that status, but I'm under no obligation to support you financially once you do.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It isn't personal vendettas. It's reacting to transphobia the same way people react to racism. Trans people deserve the right to make a person be accountable for their views. And frankly, when you're conflating "sitting down and taking the expectation that you should treat someone like a human being" and "sitting down and take being treated like your gender is pretend", you're siding with him.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Transphobia is a horrible horrible mind view, comparable to homophobia and racism. It is a systematic removal of a certain people's rights and liberties. I believe not respecting another person is to doscriminate. If a person has transitioned I will respect them as I do any average joe om the street. Going out of your way to not respect them is to discriminate against them.
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