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[A Link to the Past]

This mob mentality is going a little too far, ugly.

"I said something ignorant and became dismissive towards people who got bothered by it."

It is immediately evident by your tone that you came in here to bother people. This isn't drive-by shit-posting, this is a GGer asking questions.

Why change your own beliefs because of those of someone else? Should atheists, when talking to Hindus, maintain their gods are the only true gods, since it is their rather harmless wish.

How about jus referring to them without male or female pronouns, would that suffice or would you still demand they jump to your command?

Because misgendering is a serious problem, and there is no reason to do it besides to dehumanize someone. You're either doing it because you want to use the opposite of their preferred pronouns, or you're doing it to make a woman seem unwomanly or a man seem unmanly. It's also disregarding the psychological community's views, and is one of the rare cares where a person can disagree with professionals for no other reason than because they were taught differently by their parents on this kind of thing and not be beaten over the head for having done so.

 

[Twiforce]

Good for them, and I'm sure most reasonable people would wish them well.

Accepting someone lifestyle choice is a little different than being forced to address them as something you don't agree with is a completely different matter.

"Lifestyle choice"

Do you not see the irony in that you are using the exact same phrase homophobes use to say being gay in unnatural?

 

[Terrified]

Hello science...

http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

 

[bj00rn_]

Look at his follow up posts, has he contributed anything of value at all to this thread? Has he articulated any reasoning at all for his opinion?

Why is he such an awful horrible person just because he didn't meet your standards of articulation or quantifiable amount of explanation? You are intolerant in your own ways, and you just don't get it.

 

[RipperGrim]

No it's not, and I agree that would make you a colossal prick, but that simply isn't what is happening here.

Yes it is. If a tansgender person walks up to and says I'm a boy even though you think they are a girl. You are saying that we mustn't accept and then go out of our way to tell them they are just deluding themselves.

 

[Yrael]

Don't see the issue, he's entitled to his opinions and isn't exactly being offensive.

I don't know how much difference I'm likely to make, but I'll attempt to explain this...here is one trans woman's account of what it is like to be transgender.

"I’m transgender, meaning the gender that was assigned to me at birth doesn’t match the gender I identify with. For most of my life, I couldn’t articulate this feeling in a coherent way.

I started struggling when puberty hit, around age 12. I watched as my body turned what felt to me grotesquely masculine, and my mind began to feel as though it was in a fog of testosterone. My brain was like a Camry someone had tried to fuel with diesel — it wasn’t meant to run on testosterone. I wished I could be like the other girls in my class. Something just seemed right about who they were, how they were.

I sank into a depression that lasted for years. I didn’t understand why. I tried therapy, anti-depressants, anti-convulsants, and anti-anxiety medications. They didn’t help. I finally gave up trying to fix it. I thought there was nothing I could do.

At age 26, after years of repressing these feelings, the dissonance between my mind, body and life itself became too much to handle. Every morning I woke up feeling more shame and anxiety than ever before. I took up smoking, a habit I’d kicked nearly two years prior. I couldn’t sleep without drinking, and I often drank until I couldn’t walk. Still, the feelings persisted. I considered suicide.

Then in late May of 2012, I came out to my girlfriend of 5 years, pouring my heart out, doing the best I could to explain the toll that ignoring this has taken on me. It’s a hard thing to put into words.

By that October, after months of working with a therapist specializing in gender-related issues, I had begun hormone replacement therapy. Simple enough. I took medication to reduce the testosterone in my system, the very hormone that had nearly destroyed me, and I gave myself a weekly injection of estradiol, one of the more common forms of estrogen found in pubescent and post-pubescent women.

A few months later, I’d begun to experience the physical and mental impact of the hormones, and with it a new sense of clarity, peace and happiness. The chronic aches in my joints and pains in my stomach that had been a staple of my life since puberty dissipated. My mind and body began repairing themselves. It’s as though my brain was meant to run on estrogen my whole life."

...

"I am a woman, but on such a frequent basis, I’m told this is not true. I’m told that I’m “genetically” or “biologically” male. I’m told that I’m not a “real woman.”

I have to ask: What constitutes a “real woman?”

How am I not one? Is it because of my chromosomes? I don’t think that’s fair, as neither you nor I know what my chromosomes even are. Someone who makes this argument assume they’re XY, but I don’t even know that for certain, as I’ve never had a karyotype test. It’s probably a safe bet that my detractor hasn’t had a karyotype test, either. Even if I do have a Y chromosome, that doesn’t mean anything. There are a number of women with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, sometimes giving them an XY set of chromosomes, which, typically, would be associated with men. Are they not women? In fact, there was even a recent case of a woman with XY chromosomes who gave birth to a daughter with – you guessed it – XY chromosomes.

Additionally, a September 16, 2013 article in the New York Times (“DNA Double Take”) examines recent studies on the DNA of women. “In 2012, Canadian scientists performed autopsies on the brains of 59 women. They found neurons with Y chromosomes in 63 percent of them.” 63 percent!? Wow. A separate study, conducted at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, discovered that 56 percent of the women they investigated had a Y chromosome, based on a sample of their breast tissue. This goes to show that being a woman is about more than whether you have two X chromosomes.

Is the reason that some disqualify me from womanhood related to the fact that I can’t birth a child and don’t have a uterus? If so, do they also reject the womanhood of infertile women or those who have had a hysterectomy? It’s true that I wasn’t born with a uterus, but neither was Jaclyn Schultz, Miss Michigan 2013. As a result of Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser syndrome (MRKH), she was born perfectly healthy, with the exception of her missing uterus (which also resulted in an inability to menstruate). 75,000 women in the United States have MRKH. Are they “really men?”

Is it the fact that I wasn’t “socialized as a woman” that excludes me from womanhood? Is it that I was “socialized as a man”? Well, so were these girls in Afghanistan. They were “raised as boys” until they were well into their teenage years. Are they not women?

Let’s move on to the most obvious objection to my womanhood: It would take sexual reassignment surgery (SRS), also known as vaginoplasty, for me to ever have a vagina. So that “makes me a man”? Tell that to women born with vaginal agenesis, a condition present in 1 out of every 5,000 female infants, where a child is born without a fully-formed vagina. This condition may require surgical intervention (i.e. vaginoplasty) in order to create a vagina. Does this negate their femaleness as well?

None of these factors (chromosomes, reproductive organs, socialization, genitals) cancel out the fact that the girls and women I mentioned above are, in fact, girls and women. I sincerely doubt that most people would so much as question the womanhood of the women I described. After all, it’s not their fault that they were born with anomalies. How am I any different? I didn’t choose to be transgender.

I’m different, and I’m okay with that

I don’t want “special treatment,” I just want to be respected as a human being, as deserving of dignity as anyone else. I want to be able to exist in the world without the core of my identity, something that I grappled with for more than a quarter century, being dismissed by someone who couldn’t possibly understand what it’s like. I want to be able to go to work without worrying about being fired for who I am. I want to be able to use the restroom without fear of being beaten or accused of having malicious intentions. Like everyone else, I want the world to see me for me.

Is that really so much to ask, to be treated like everyone else, to have the same rights and protections as everyone else? From a legal and public accommodations viewpoint, that’s really all any of us are asking for.

Being transgender is a medical condition. Like so many other conditions, if left untreated, you’re bound to wind up the bearer of a host of related symptoms. Depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts and actions are what you often get when you try to suppress your dysphoria. Without treatment, which, for me, came in the form of hormone replacement therapy, I might be dead.

I know who I am, what I am. I am a woman, and that’s the truth."

Now contrast that perspective with this:

Is it more evident now why these tweets are hurtful? They represent a total lack of respect, and a complete denial of her reality, her experience and her pain.

I edited because I knew posts I would be facing so I tried to precise.

Also, there are scientific theories sure, a lot about every subject.
As people said, you are born man or woman determining the compatible sex. Human didnt decide how to reproduce themselves, on a whim. There is a natural order.

I recommend this recent Nature article on the biology of sex and its non-binary nature. It is quite excellent.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why is he such an awful horrible person just because he didn't meet your standards of articulation or quantifiable amount of explanation? You are intolerant in your own ways, and you just don't get it.

I don't think anyone should ever care that they aren't tolerating bad posters. It definitely doesn't conflate to intolerance of trans people.

 

[Suikoguy]

Why is he such an awful horrible person just because he didn't meet your standards of articulation or quantifiable amount of explanation? You are intolerant in your own ways, and you just don't get it.

I expect him to try, instead of coming into a thread in an attempt to get people riled up. It's not asking much, it's it's a basic requirement of posting on a message-board.

 

[SatelliteMind]

Oh man......

 

[roknin]

Why change your own beliefs because of those of someone else? Should atheists, when talking to Hindus, maintain their gods are the only true gods, since it is their rather harmless wish.

How about jus referring to them without male or female pronouns, would that suffice or would you still demand they jump to your command?

This is literally one of the worst comparisons I've read in a long while for any number of reasons

I'll keep it basic: you're not beings asked to change your belief. You're being asked to respect someone else's belief.

 

[Walshicus]

Oni Link and others have explained in this thread just the simple act of not believing trans people is emotionally traumatic. As a trans person myself it definitely is extremely hurtful when even a random person says they think I'm "really a man" as it brings up a lot of anguish and despair from the past. It's why the trans suicide rate is so high.

Literally, when people like you say the things you are saying right now, it can trigger depressive reactions that contribute to suicide risk. I feel that way when I read posts like yours in threads just like this one. Especially when you use incredibly hurtful, inaccurate phrasing like "turn a women into a man."

Well I'm sorry you feel that way and I genuinely hope you come out of this thread any less happy than when you came in.

But, that isn't going to change my (or most peoples, I'd wager) opinion which is independent of our concern for each others safety and happiness.

I don't know, do you really want people to pretend they go along with the notion, even if they privately disagree? That doesn't sound better to me.

 

[FyreWulff]

Good for them, and I'm sure most reasonable people would wish them well.

Accepting someone lifestyle choice is a little different than being forced to address them as something you don't agree with is a completely different matter.

Amusingly, I assume if someone presented very well as a specific gender, you'd have no issue addressing them with the correct pronoun. You wouldn't even know, or think about it. You'd just pass on by and never think on it.

But once you have enough information that someone is transgendered, you explicitly suddenly want to call them by their original born gender pronoun or a neutral one, but not the one they are. It hurts people because you're specifically denying them their identity and humanity for no apparent reason other than to just spite them, like acknowledging it is going to erode your own gender identity or something. It costs you nothing to simply acknowledge people by the gender they identify as. It's mentally taxing for transgendered persons to be denied their identity on purpose by other people.

 

[bj00rn_]

I expect him to try, instead of coming into a thread in an attempt to get people riled up. It's not asking much, it's it's a basic requirement of posting on a message-board.

Do you think you're contributing to a better world by blowing up in people's faces because they don't meet your standard?

 

[UTIII]

Not asking you to change your beliefs, just wondering what you get for being rude and coming across as hostile.

Why you would intentionally court confrontation when none is necessary or desired.

and sure you could refer to them without using male or female pronouns but I imagine it would become very obvious what you were doing and why very quickly. Especially if English is your first language. Other languages may provide more opportunities to get around this, I don't know.

It wouldn't be rude or hostile unless one party was making demands of the other...

Perhaps said trans person should realise the person is intentionally not using male or female pronounce and move along instead of making it a thing? Works both ways.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Well I'm sorry you feel that way and I genuinely hope you come out of this thread any less happy than when you came in.

But, that isn't going to change my (or most peoples, I'd wager) opinion which is independent of our concern for each others safety and happiness.

I don't know, do you really want people to pretend they go along with the notion, even if they privately disagree? That doesn't sound better to me.

When someone says something as ignorant as "vaccination causes autism" or "climate change isn't happening," that someone is looked upon as a fool

I've said it many times, but your "opinion" (which, by the way, was not formed from anything other than accepting what you were told as a kid) is this weird case where you can disagree with people whose job it is to study gender, disagree based on nothing, and society expects people to treat your opinion equal to experts - because trans people are second-class citizens in most all societies.

 

[BigDes]

Or just honest and unconvinced.

Unrelated to the discussion but more a thought about this word 'honesty'

I teach primary school kids and some of them really struggle. So when a kid who struggles to even remember his name on a good day comes to me at the end of the day with a drawing he has made of Mr BigDes teaching the class I could tell him that the picture was shit or I could just say thank you what a wonderful picture

One of these is honest, and would stop that child from being creative in class ever again.

Honesty can make you a giant asshole and if you're reasoning for it is "Yeah well at least I'm honest" then I'm afraid its not a strong enough defense for the accusation of being a bit of a shit

 

[UTIII]

"Lifestyle choice"

Do you not see the irony in that you are using the exact same phrase homophobes use to say being gay in unnatural?

I'm using the terminology of the poster I was quoting, so if that's an issue perhaps you should take it up with them?

...... Again. People that are born to fit into society's norms will never understand what it's like to be different from the norm. Whether you are gay or you feel like you're born in the wrong gender. Why is it so hard to understand others and just accept their lifestyle? It does not have any impact on you or your life. It's just a form of respect and understanding. It's not that hard! Going against that is simply rude, disrespectful and ignorant.

 

[EmpressInYellow]

Well I'm sorry you feel that way and I genuinely hope you come out of this thread any less happy than when you came in.

But, that isn't going to change my (or most peoples, I'd wager) opinion which is independent of our concern for each others safety and happiness.

I don't know, do you really want people to pretend they go along with the notion, even if they privately disagree? That doesn't sound better to me.

If it involves them NOT acting like assholes to us? Yeah, I'll take it. They can keep their thoughts to themselves.

I'm entirely willing to judge them based on those opinions, though, the same way I would if I found out someone is a closet racist. If you think that's unfair, well...would you want me to pretend to along with it, even if I privately disagree?

 

[Mugatu]

When someone says something as ignorant as "vaccination causes autism" or "climate change isn't happening," that someone is looked upon as a fool

I've said it many times, but your "opinion" (which, by the way, was not formed from anything other than accepting what you were told as a kid) is this weird case where you can disagree with people whose job it is to study gender, disagree based on nothing, and society expects people to treat your opinion equal to experts - because trans people are second-class citizens in most all societies.

Those are foolish ideas but then again just about everything we take as fact and wisdom was at one time foolish as well.

Either way, people are entitled to their opinions no matter how stupid and unless those directly and immediately harm others then we don't exclude them from society.

And your opinions on excusing everyone else's ideas as based on "nothing" and implying blind allegiance to "experts" is extremely dangerous.

If this situation bothers you then you are free to boycott (for lack of a better term) The Escapist. I personally don't frequent haven't frequented that site in quite a while anyway so it would be disingenuous of me to say that this is the reason.

 

[RooMHM]

Please actually look up the science on genders. There isn't just two configurations.

For starters, AIS. In which you grow up as a woman but are genetically XY male. Vagina and breasts present, but also testes which usually must be removed when people find out you have no period.

It's also possible to be XX male, in which one of the X chromosomes somehow ends up with the SRY gene on it. You grow up entirely male, but if someone just glanced at your blood test results, you'd appear to be female.

Then there's intergendered persons.

Ok. But these are the exception and I believe (maybe wrongly) that they are a minority among the minorities. Are you saying men arent born men because of those thousand people?

 

[hobblygobbly]

All one can do is boycott The Escapist for hiring him.

You're not going to change this man's views through Twitter or a GAF thread (and that goes for many people), their opinions/views are the most difficult to change through a medium like that. They'll go into defensive-mode and defend themselves.

Peoples opinions/views change mostly through real experiences such as friends or family, it's sad but if people constantly bring this up against him on a personal level he'll feel "attacked" and defend himself and at that point it's basically impossible for someone to change their mind/opinion.

Best is to pretend he doesn't exist and pretend The Escapist doesn't exist.

Such toxic trash coming from there. There's a difference in holding a view/opinion and using that view/opinion to hurt others. If you think that, that's okay, a lot of people have self-restraint to keep that to themselves and not disrespect and hurt others. That's what he should do.

Really sad but nothing the Internet will do will make him change.

 

[mollipen]

Or just honest and unconvinced.

So are trans people mentally ill, delusional, liars, or just playing pretend?

Seriously, for people who are "unconvinced" of our existence and what we are claiming to be, what is the answer then?

Honestly though, at this point, I'm not sure if I actually care. You can think whatever you want. I'm so tired of being beaten down mentally and emotionally by these kinds of threads.

 

[UTIII]

If it involves them NOT acting like assholes to us? Yeah, I'll take it. They can keep their thoughts to themselves.

I'm entirely willing to judge them based on those opinions, though, the same way I would if I found out someone is a closet racist. If you think that's unfair, well...would you want me to pretend to along with it, even if I privately disagree?

I'm failing to see the comparison between disagreeing with your own choice / belief abut your gender and holding racial views.

Where's the link?

Because someone doesn't want to go along with you they are assholes?

 

[Suikoguy]

So are trans people mentally ill, delusional, liars, or just playing pretend?

Seriously, for people who are "unconvinced" of our existence and what we are claiming to be, what is the answer then?

Honestly though, at this point, I'm not sure if I actually care. You can think whatever you want. I'm so tired of being beaten down mentally and emotionally by these kinds of threads.

Hang in there, these threads do help clean the forum up though.
Whether it's worth it? I don't know

 

[A Link to the Past]

Those are foolish ideas but then again just about everything we take as fact and wisdom was at one time foolish as well.

Either way, people are entitled to their opinions no matter how stupid and unless those directly and immediately harm others then we don't exclude them from society.

And your opinions on excusing everyone else's ideas as based on "nothing" and implying blind allegiance to "experts" is extremely dangerous.

Most people who have views on gender likely did not do their own research on it, and were told what gender was from a very young age. So yes, based on nothing. There is no reason other than willful ignorance to say "I disagree with the psychological community on gender, my mom said differently!"

Yes, a person can choose to be wrong. They can choose to ignore the science, and they can enjoy knowing that in 50 years they will be a part of the representation of transphobia of today.

 

[komplanen]

Some people are just the worst. At least now Escapist can become a #GG fortress...

 

[BigDes]

I'm failing to see the comparison between disagreeing with your own choice / belief abut your gender and holding racial views.

Where's the link?

Because someone doesn't want to go along with you they are assholes?

The comparison would be that you were negatively judging people based on something they themselves have little or no control over. Color of skin, sexual preference, the gender they identify as etc.

 

[EmpressInYellow]

I'm failing to see the comparison between disagreeing with your own choice / belief abut your gender and holding racial views.

Where's the link?

Because someone doesn't want to go along with you they are assholes?

"Go along with me". Like it's all a game, an imagination exercise, rather than...you know, my identity. Who I am.

Because what that basically says is you (general you, not you specifically) think I'm delusional. You don't acknowledge my gender, and you think I'm just a self-mutilating crazy person.

Yeah, I'm pretty willing to judge people for that. If it helps, substitute "homophobia" for "racism".

 

[Walshicus]

Unrelated to the discussion but more a thought about this word 'honesty'

I teach primary school kids and some of them really struggle. So when a kid who struggles to even remember his name on a good day comes to me at the end of the day with a drawing he has made of Mr BigDes teaching the class I could tell him that the picture was shit or I could just say thank you what a wonderful picture

One of these is honest, and would stop that child from being creative in class ever again.

Honesty can make you a giant asshole and if you're reasoning for it is "Yeah well at least I'm honest" then I'm afraid its not a strong enough defense for the accusation of being a bit of a shit

It seems to be the obvious answer would be to change your phrasing without lying to the child. "I see what you were aiming for Sarah, have you considered using [...]" is a million miles from "That's a shit drawing, Sarah."


But that has no application here.

 

[RooMHM]

If it involves them NOT acting like assholes to us? Yeah, I'll take it. They can keep their thoughts to themselves.

I'm entirely willing to judge them based on those opinions, though, the same way I would if I found out someone is a closet racist. If you think that's unfair, well...would you want me to pretend to along with it, even if I privately disagree?

I know this thought won t be popular but don t you think saying that gender and sex are different can hurt people s feelings too? Even if not personally but because their beliefs are considered offensive?

 

[UTIII]

The comparison would be that you were negatively judging people based on something they themselves have little or no control over. Color of skin, sexual preference, the gender they identify as etc.

Where is the negatively judging in this topic?

I didn't realise not going along with others beliefs was negatively judging them.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Where is the negatively judging in this topic?

I didn't realise not going along with others beliefs was negatively judging them.

If I may

Why do you choose to not go along with their beliefs? Do you have a specific reason? Did you do research that made you disagree with the idea that trans women are real women?

It seems to be the obvious answer would be to change your phrasing without lying to the child. "I see what you were aiming for Sarah, have you considered using [...]" is a million miles from "That's a shit drawing, Sarah."


But that has no application here.

Thank goodness you didn't try that. I don't know what's worse, talking down to trans people ITT or denying the validity of their existence.

 

[EntropyX]

From post 10, it is obvious that he has a problem with the transsexual "agenda" meaning there is no evidence that he is transphobic. Is it not funny that western society has evolved into a place where if you do not accept and respect everyone you are a terrible person? Anybody who is slightly confused by the logic of trans-sexuality is instantaneous labelled as a transphobic and a terrible person. This is nothing more than left-wing AGGRESSIVE liberalism and has no place in a free society where a neutral tone should be achieved.

 

[BigDes]

Where is the negatively judging in this topic?

I didn't realise not going along with others beliefs was negatively judging them.

I don't agree with them and I am going to call them what I want not what they want seems to be a pretty negative judgement to me

 

[SomedayTheFire]

What a piece of shit.

 

[EmpressInYellow]

I know this thought won t be popular but don t you think saying that gender and sex are different can hurt people s feelings too? Even if not personally but because their beliefs are considered offensive?

Er...not really?

And even if it can, well...that's unfortunate, but I'm sure "black people are equal to white people" deeply hurt the feelings of some racists, but...them's the breaks, you know?

 

[JacksUsername]

I'm using the terminology of the poster I was quoting, so if that's an issue perhaps you should take it up with them?

You took lifestyle and changed it to lifestyle choice. There is a difference.

 

[SwissLion]

Transphobic and Anti-Vaccination attitudes are both examples of things that many people will tell you about being "Just my opinion that I have a right to!"

But they both push a society in a direction that is measurably more dangerous for people who are already vulnerable and who have no choice in the matter.

Gender Identity and its separation from the Sex you were assigned at birth is no more a "Lifestyle choice" than any number of immuno-compromising conditions.

Treating an attitude which, if spread and accepted as "whatever man, just an opinion", has consequences with measurable and severe impact on people's quality of live and even their life itself is irresponsible and downright ignorant.

The science is pretty overwhelmingly clear on both issues. You're flat out on the wrong side of science and of history if you're taking your stand there.

One of these attitudes is generally recognised as such here and elsewhere on most of the internet, the other is treated as "Just politics" that we're supposed to keep out of polite conversation.

If you're in this thread and your attitude towards these "opinions" are significantly different, you're not just an idiot, you're a hypocritical one.

It's not just an opinion. It's just ignorance. And it actively endangers lives.

 

[UTIII]

"Go along with me". Like it's all a game, an imagination exercise, rather than...you know, my identity. Who I am.

Because what that basically says is you (general you, not you specifically) think I'm delusional. You don't acknowledge my gender, and you think I'm just a self-mutilating crazy person.

Yeah, I'm pretty willing to judge people for that. If it helps, substitute "homophobia" for "racism".

That's something you will need to deal with and its an issue with how you interpret things, which you shouldn't put the onus on someone else.

 

[Docflem]

Those are foolish ideas but then again just about everything we take as fact and wisdom was at one time foolish as well.

Either way, people are entitled to their opinions no matter how stupid and unless those directly and immediately harm others then we don't exclude them from society.

And your opinions on excusing everyone else's ideas as based on "nothing" and implying blind allegiance to "experts" is extremely dangerous.

If this situation bothers you then you are free to boycott (for lack of a better term) The Escapist. I personally don't frequent haven't frequented that site in quite a while anyway so it would be disingenuous of me to say that this is the reason.

Oh wow, despite the fact that others have provided deep and compelling research by respected members of both the scientific and medical communities, you put experts in quotations and called other people "blind." Also as people who actually suffer from being different have pointed out, the way these people present their "opinions" are hurtful and destructive AND none of them have yet to post anything in the way of backing up their "opinion" on gender and sex. So I think pointing out that it seems to be based on nothing is very fare. Damn, threads like these make me realize how lucky I am that my sex and gender line up.

 

[A Link to the Past]

From post 10, it is obvious that he has a problem with the transsexual "agenda" meaning there is no evidence that he is transphobic. Is it not funny that western society has evolved into a place where if you do not accept and respect everyone you are a terrible person? Anybody who is slightly confused by the logic of trans-sexuality is instantaneous labelled as a transphobic and a terrible person. This is nothing more than left-wing AGGRESSIVE liberalism and has no place in a free society where a neutral tone should be achieved.

So what you're saying is that when he said that he would call a black person the n-word, he was just confused

And that when he said that trans people are playing pretend, he was just confused

Like, apparently confusion causes people to turn into bigots or something, and it's not their fault?

 

[SomedayTheFire]

From post 10, it is obvious that he has a problem with the transsexual "agenda" meaning there is no evidence that he is transphobic. Is it not funny that western society has evolved into a place where if you do not accept and respect everyone you are a terrible person? Anybody who is slightly confused by the logic of trans-sexuality is instantaneous labelled as a transphobic and a terrible person. This is nothing more than left-wing AGGRESSIVE liberalism and has no place in a free society where a neutral tone should be achieved.

Transsexual agenda? You mean being treated like an equal person? Yeah opposing that is transphobic.

 

[UTIII]

I don't agree with them and I am going to call them what I want not what they want seems to be a pretty negative judgement to me

Unfortunately that is not a negative judgement.

 

[BigDes]

From post 10, it is obvious that he has a problem with the transsexual "agenda" meaning there is no evidence that he is transphobic. Is it not funny that western society has evolved into a place where if you do not accept and respect everyone you are a terrible person? Anybody who is slightly confused by the logic of trans-sexuality is instantaneous labelled as a transphobic and a terrible person. This is nothing more than left-wing AGGRESSIVE liberalism and has no place in a free society where a neutral tone should be achieved.

Is the trans sexual agenda the same as the gay agenda or do I need a new chart on my wall?

 

[UTIII]

You took lifestyle and changed it to lifestyle choice. There is a difference.

Just an error, and doesn't really change much in context of what was said.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

So what you're saying is that when he said that he would call a black person the n-word, he was just confused

And that when he said that trans people are playing pretend, he was just confused

Like, apparently confusion causes people to turn into bigots or something, and it's not their fault?

No, see, they're just confused. And confusion causes people, rather than asking questions and finding out answers, to become bigots because that's a default and sensible stance to take. If you don't understand something, hate it. Lovely.

 

[BigDes]

Unfortunately that is not a negative judgement.

Then tell us why you do not agree with treating people how you would wish to be treated?

 

[EmpressInYellow]

Unfortunately that is not a negative judgement.

Uh, yeah, it is. Again, did you see his follow-up post addressing racial slurs?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Unfortunately that is not a negative judgement.

Well, no, it is. It would be like if I called a guy a girl because he was feminine. It would be meant as a personal attack. There is no reason to insist upon calling them by the wrong gender other than to attack them.

 

[UTIII]

If I may

Why do you choose to not go along with their beliefs? Do you have a specific reason? Did you do research that made you disagree with the idea that trans women are real women?

It's irrelevant to the discussion, people hold many different views.