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The first 30 minutes of The Killing Joke is awful. (Spoilers)
- Thread starter lightskintwin
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Beaniedude
Member
Well that movie was sure something.
Our whole theatre cracked up laughing when
It was weird.
Our whole theatre cracked up laughing when
Barbara and Bruce have sex.
It was weird.
Didn't a DC editor say "cripple the bitch" or something like that when Moore requested to do it?
They have a hate-on for Babs. Probably subconsciously at this point.
It's interesting because I think a lot of people (me included) were expecting this to be a crown jewel in the DC crown, but this isn't quite panning out.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Bruce Timm always had a Batman/girl thing and found an outlet for his ship in the old Batman cartoon (which is amazing despite that)
He just got to bring it up again in this adaption.
With stuff like this and the Snyderverse and the latest comic reboot, I really wonder what DC is thinking at times.
He just got to bring it up again in this adaption.
With stuff like this and the Snyderverse and the latest comic reboot, I really wonder what DC is thinking at times.
obin_gam
Member
Just finished the movie.
Talk about making a bird out of a feather, OP.
Sure the first 30 minutes feels dislodged from the second part, but it wasn't a clusterfuck which the OP makes it seem.
It's not one of the better animated movies, though, I feel they should have focused more on The Jokers relationship with Batman as well as the Barbara stuff. The second half felt a little short because of the lack of that.
Talk about making a bird out of a feather, OP.
Sure the first 30 minutes feels dislodged from the second part, but it wasn't a clusterfuck which the OP makes it seem.
It's not one of the better animated movies, though, I feel they should have focused more on The Jokers relationship with Batman as well as the Barbara stuff. The second half felt a little short because of the lack of that.
Spoilerzzzz
They actually give very good reason for that and explain that t is out of character for him.
I agree with this, even just a few more nods and hints would have been a good idea.
There's talk of The Abyss etc, but a bit more detail might have been worth including.
Mechanized
Member
You can envision the writers in a boardroom just thinking they're the absolute shit after coming up with this idea, high fives all around. Fuck. Barf.
They are both reprising their roles again for the new Justice League cartoon.
Was Joker ever even in the 90s Justice League cartoon? I only really remember him from BTAS and the Superman crossover.
Edit: Entire voice cast is strong actually. Brent Spiner as The Riddler, Ken Jeong as Toyman, John DiMaggio as Darkseid and Lobo, John de Lancie as Brainiac.
I totally forgot. Ya, this show is one of my most anticipated shows coming up.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Just watched this horrible shitshow. It's awful. The first 30 minutes are unbelievably bad in every way, and then the adaptation happens, and it's like a record scratch. It's not a good adaptation on its own either, mind you. The animation is shit and Bolland's artwork is just about the only really great thing about TKJ, which imo is immensely overrated.
But holy GOD that new material is unbelievably bad. Like, what was anyone thinking? The dialogue sucks, literally EVERYTHING is about Batgirl being horny for Batman, or a girl, like she's more sexualized than ever... and then she gets shot just above the crotch. What a steaming turd of a film.
But holy GOD that new material is unbelievably bad. Like, what was anyone thinking? The dialogue sucks, literally EVERYTHING is about Batgirl being horny for Batman, or a girl, like she's more sexualized than ever... and then she gets shot just above the crotch. What a steaming turd of a film.
I just finished it. I thin my biggest problem with it was that it was just boring. The first 30 minutes were bad yeah but the rest was just meh. The shot when Joker transforms as well as the final confrontation were the only parts I thought were good, though something about the joke at the end felt flat. Were we supposed to sympathize with the Joker or something?
After 30 mins how much is the cartoon true to the comic because I have always heard that the killing joke is something extraordinary. The movie was kay plan boring. Also such a serious tone does not mesh well with cartoonic character. The ending was also pretty meh. In the end it felt like the worst portrayal of batman
Having only the base knowledge of The Killing Joke, I left feeling very confused afterwards. Reading the replies here, sounds like the first part of the movie was tacked on. I was waiting for them to really tie the movie together. I was sure that Barbara was pregnant with Batman's child and that's why Joker shoots her in the womb. I was waiting for the big reveal. Thought he might have told Gorden to really fuck him up; and when that didn't happen thought he would reveal it to Batman.
It would sort of parallel Joker's own life in that he lost a child and then revealing that to Batman to prove his point of it just takes one bad day to change someone. But that never happened and I was like, what was the first part of the movie even there for?
Also Batman was pretty emotionless throughout the movie. I know he's usually brooding but this was on a whole other level. It was immature how distant he was to Barbara. If he thought it was a mistake what happened, he should have talked with her instead of pretend like it didn't happen and he didn't care at all what happens to her.
Ultimately I liked Joker's backstory and that was about it. Maybe other parts could have worked on their own but put together it was sort of a mess.
It would sort of parallel Joker's own life in that he lost a child and then revealing that to Batman to prove his point of it just takes one bad day to change someone. But that never happened and I was like, what was the first part of the movie even there for?
Also Batman was pretty emotionless throughout the movie. I know he's usually brooding but this was on a whole other level. It was immature how distant he was to Barbara. If he thought it was a mistake what happened, he should have talked with her instead of pretend like it didn't happen and he didn't care at all what happens to her.
Ultimately I liked Joker's backstory and that was about it. Maybe other parts could have worked on their own but put together it was sort of a mess.
No. I don't know how it translates to film or if it was 100% word for word, but that moment was a unique one between Batman and the Joker.
The joke was about an insane man trying to save another insane man, and the reality dawns on Batman and the Joker that they both are bitterly broken and in many ways very similar, but still fundamentally different and always will be; they are doomed to repeat their encounters until one or both die. The book takes a nihilistic view of some things, but also touches on inevitability, at least in my interpretation. The final joke and shared laughter is a moment of levity where they share a mutual understanding of each other.
It was also debated as to whether Batman killed the Joker at the end of the original story. I never thought so and don't think that was the intention though.
Oh I got that. That's what I liked about the last scene. I just didn't really care for Joker's backstory. I guess I don't like the idea of having an actual set backstory.
Oh I see. That's never been strict canon, just a possible option. I believe even the Joker refers to it as multiple choice. For the story it was "true", but who knows how much if any really is. Batman was trying to reach out to him anyway, I always took it as he knows any story the Joker spins is probably 98% lies, but was willing to help him out of his "destiny" as it were, regardless.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
First 30 minutes might be the best part of the movie...
And that's with the first 30 minutes being awful.
Just terrible.
Least they kept the ambiguous ending, but they blew the joke. Reminded me of the 4th Harry Potter film when Voldemort came back and, because of time, the dialogue is presented in a super-rushed way.
And that's with the first 30 minutes being awful.
Just terrible.
Least they kept the ambiguous ending, but they blew the joke. Reminded me of the 4th Harry Potter film when Voldemort came back and, because of time, the dialogue is presented in a super-rushed way.
L4DANathan
Member
....what the fuck. DC pls stop.
Demoskinos
Member
Oh I know different writers ect... just Bruce Wayne in general regardless of who writes him is sort of an asshole.
Vic_Viper
Member
As a fan of DCs animated films, I thought the whole movie was trash. By far this has to be the worst of them all. The opening prologue felt so out of place, yes I understand they needed to introduce Batgirl so when she gets shot you actually care about it. But it felt so out of place from the rest of the film. They didn't even try to make them feel connected in the slightest way. It's like they made the opening half hour after they had already finished the rest and didn't care about how out of place it felt. I am seriously disappointed with DC, they actually had me psyched to see this for months. What a let down. These movies have been soo good too.
SapphiCine
Member
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It's actually not as perverted as it sounds. The camera is facing her side view and it starts at her waist and pans up to her head. I couldn't even tell if there was boob jiggle cuz her running animation from the side looks weird and choppy.
Kevin Conroy just phoned it in.....even with the best dialogue he's had in years.
10 years ago I felt he would have nailed it.
Hamill did his thing of course
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Man, I never struggled so hard to make it through such a short movie. I'd rather watch Batman and Robin again, at least that movie is fun if you're drunk enough. The credits are still rolling as I'm typing this and the happy ending they tacked on is hilarious. They could not have missed the point more if they tried.
I don't hold the gaphic novel in high regard (I think it's a very good Joker story with some gorgeous artwork but a pretty minor Alan Moore comic) so I wasn't expecting much from this film. Every minute of the film is filled with so many poor artistic decisions, it's incredibly baffling. It's by far the worst DC DTV, the animation is Marvel* levels of bad and I was throwing my hands in the air in frustration during every scene. Hamill did what he could but he clearly struggled to do the voice for the young Joker. Conroy felt like the narrator of an audiobook reading the lines for the first time and mildly altering his voice. He reminded me of the poor narrator for the Watchmen motion comic who had to do the voice for the female characters.
Terrible on all fronts, don't waste your time watching this.
Despite my opinion of this film, unlike many people in this thread, I haven't lost hope or respect for Timm and DC animation. Sure, they're hit and miss these days but this project was a bad idea from the start. I liked Gods and Monsters, Assault on Arkham and Throne of Atlantis and those weren't shackled by having to adapt such a loaded story. Now that Killing Joke is out of the way, hopefully things will get better for the DTVs and Justice League Action looks like a lot of fun.
*Edit : to be clear, I'm just talking about Marvel's animation efforts, not the company as a whole
I don't hold the gaphic novel in high regard (I think it's a very good Joker story with some gorgeous artwork but a pretty minor Alan Moore comic) so I wasn't expecting much from this film. Every minute of the film is filled with so many poor artistic decisions, it's incredibly baffling. It's by far the worst DC DTV, the animation is Marvel* levels of bad and I was throwing my hands in the air in frustration during every scene. Hamill did what he could but he clearly struggled to do the voice for the young Joker. Conroy felt like the narrator of an audiobook reading the lines for the first time and mildly altering his voice. He reminded me of the poor narrator for the Watchmen motion comic who had to do the voice for the female characters.
Terrible on all fronts, don't waste your time watching this.
Despite my opinion of this film, unlike many people in this thread, I haven't lost hope or respect for Timm and DC animation. Sure, they're hit and miss these days but this project was a bad idea from the start. I liked Gods and Monsters, Assault on Arkham and Throne of Atlantis and those weren't shackled by having to adapt such a loaded story. Now that Killing Joke is out of the way, hopefully things will get better for the DTVs and Justice League Action looks like a lot of fun.
*Edit : to be clear, I'm just talking about Marvel's animation efforts, not the company as a whole
TheRedSnifit
Member
It is canon, though. Granted, in-universe everyone stresses that it's ambiguous, but 99% of the time the origin given is the same one.
To be honest, I think it's the medium itself that does the most disservice to the story. As far as adaptations go, I think it's okay to introduce things that conceptually service the overall thematic elements of a narrative. The problem is that the first portion of the movie does nothing in the way of contributing the "breaking point" theme that I fondly remember about the killing joke.
Where I likely disagree with most is that the sex stuff worked for me in isolation. It is fascinating exploring the father figure side of Batman, the general brokenness of his relationships - romantic or otherwise - and the strained sexual tension of fighting alongside someone who you have feelings for, but you know will never work. I thought the film handled the messiness of that entire experience very well. My main gripe is that this was not the story to explore this and mostly just muddies the entire experience.
For the actual Killing Joke stuff, I think that it was not explored enough. I am never once convinced that Jim hit his breaking point, let alone Bats himself. The origin story is presented in a way that reads as true even though it may or may not be. This more than anything is a function of the medium itself. We get the classic "multiple choice" line here, but it feels throw away because we're never made to believe that the story being presented is any less true. And the ending to me lacks the ambiguity that makes the original story truly compelling. We never believe Batman is like the Joker, so the joke itself loses it resonance. The animation doesn't help with carrying out the weight of the final moments.
Where I likely disagree with most is that the sex stuff worked for me in isolation. It is fascinating exploring the father figure side of Batman, the general brokenness of his relationships - romantic or otherwise - and the strained sexual tension of fighting alongside someone who you have feelings for, but you know will never work. I thought the film handled the messiness of that entire experience very well. My main gripe is that this was not the story to explore this and mostly just muddies the entire experience.
For the actual Killing Joke stuff, I think that it was not explored enough. I am never once convinced that Jim hit his breaking point, let alone Bats himself. The origin story is presented in a way that reads as true even though it may or may not be. This more than anything is a function of the medium itself. We get the classic "multiple choice" line here, but it feels throw away because we're never made to believe that the story being presented is any less true. And the ending to me lacks the ambiguity that makes the original story truly compelling. We never believe Batman is like the Joker, so the joke itself loses it resonance. The animation doesn't help with carrying out the weight of the final moments.
I mean, I can't fault them for trying to make Barbara more than just a two dimension character that's sole existence is just to drive batman's and joker's character. It sounds horrible, but hey, at least they tried, and according to the panel they were aiming the the right direction.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Yeah, as much as I disliked the Batgirl stuff, it would still be a bad movie if they removed the first half hour. Comic books are not storyboards and no matter how faithful you are, some things that work perfectly on the page will not translate to the screen.
The scene where the Joker finds out about the death of his pregnant wife was brilliant in the comic. It was shocking and absurd. His whole world crashed down in one speech bubble. In the movie, they reproduce the scene faithfully but the pacing of it just doesn't work when actors actually have to speak the lines. That's why even beyond the shitty art style and the Batgirl intro, there was no way a faithful adaptation of The Killing Joke was going to work.
Killing_Joke
Member
Batman sexing up Batgirl didn't and never will bug me. But the first 30min is straight up boring trash that adds nothing to TKJ story.
Hamill saves the day at least. TKJ portion is very enjoyable.
Hamill saves the day at least. TKJ portion is very enjoyable.
Vic_Viper
Member
Yea it adds nothing to the story and they don't even acknowledge it is the TKJ portion of the film. It's almost like they tacked it on weeks after finishing the film and realized they couldn't release it at 45 minutes.
Aside from the horrible beginning, the actual meat of the story was terrible. Worst SC animated film ever by far. I don't see how anyone could enjoy the film as a whole, especially if you haven't read TKJ before. Straight boring as hell.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Marmaladefire
Member
I hate Terra, but no one deserves the character assassination that an adaption of The Judas Contract could bring.
It is. It made me hate Batman.
Cold hearted, inhuman, stoic Batman must die in a fire, like, yesterday, give us the human back.
Username1198
Member
Sigh was looking forward to this too.
So is flashpoint considered the best animated DC movie in the last few years?
So is flashpoint considered the best animated DC movie in the last few years?
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