GlamFM
Banned
Please outlet, send me 2 candidates for me: 1 male and 1 female. We gonna randomly select one to represent your outlet. thank you.
So GiantBomb can not be in the jury?
Isn´t that kind of sexist in a weird twisted way, too?
Please outlet, send me 2 candidates for me: 1 male and 1 female. We gonna randomly select one to represent your outlet. thank you.
If you had the choice, would you rather ride with the best pilot for the job, or someone who isn't?
We both know what you would choose.
Please outlet, send me 2 candidates for me: 1 male and 1 female. We gonna randomly select one to represent your outlet. thank you.
Quoting this post in case people need an example of why we need more diversity in the industry at large.I find this really hard to believe. For the record I have nothing against women being on the panel. Unless you're gonna including super casual games like cell phone games (Candy Crush) that my 10 year old nieces play that number has to be way off.
I mean GoTY awards are a matter of live and death after all.
How would you suggest that the jury be selected?
Whoa buddy, it's just video games. Life has more meaning than just video game award shows. Slow your horses.
If you had the choice, would you rather ride with the best pilot for the job, or someone who isn't?
We both know what you would choose.
So GiantBomb can not be in the jury?
Isn´t that kind of sexist in a weird twisted way, too?
What is the big deal to left out giantbomb? There are dozen of other sites that can replace them.
I get the distinct impression a lot of the people saying this is no big deal or that they should just pick the 'most qualified' regardless of gender/race (whatever 'most qualified' is supposed to mean for gaming awards) haven't worked in the real world very long or at all.
In the real world, every company and government espouses the view that they are a meritocracy, and that the best and hardest working will move up the ladder.
In the real world, every company and government is not really a meritocracy, and who you know (and often how white and male you are) matters far more than any of those things.
Saying 'Well if they had picked 32 women who were all qualified it'd be fine!' is disingenuous, for the simple reason that there's a zero percent chance of that happening, while an all white male panel almost happened.
I say this all as a white male who has certainly benefited from his race/gender in many subtle ways and volunteers with girl scouts and supports all his wife's Society of Women Engineers activities in part due to how disgusted I've been at how women get treated in everyday, casual ways in work environments. This sort of nonsense is a huge problem, and you can't just toss up your hands and go 'whatever' when it happens over and over again and expect it to just work itself out in the end.
So you nominate biogamergirl and leave GiantBomb out - correct?
She the only one that works on content. There may be more working in other positions
That´s nominating someone just for the sake of it.
And that´s the wrong approach.
Same qualification should be the basis for all discussion and for all decisions.
When I sit in a plane I want the pilot to be the best one for the job - not someone who fitted whatever profile.
Maybe all this discussion is just a little bit premature.
Just from my personal experience of going to gamescom for years I can tell that female "hardcore" gamers are on the rise big time.
Soon that will be reflected (more) in games media - and soon after that in a jury I´m sure.
Don't make a fool of yourself, my arguments aren't very hard to grasp. I won't force you to agree, but leave out the bullshit please.
I not though. By excluding publications for the lack of women in you´re suggested process you literally only change the direction of the same problem.
That´s the very opposite of gender equality.
So... where are all of these notable female writers to have appeared from? There are, like, seven, with many outlets employing zero.
Simply the wrong reaction to a systemic issue.
You are, as I have never suggested any such thing. It's not very hard to grasp.
Please outlet, send me 2 candidates for me: 1 male and 1 female. We gonna randomly select one to represent your outlet. thank you.
Sorry, I confused you with this post:
So GiantBomb can not be in the jury?
Isn´t that kind of sexist in a weird twisted way, too?
I don't know how you possibly got all of that out of my post.
No it is not sexist.
Giant Bomb could submit one of their male staff, and a perhaps a capable woman freelancer who is not employed by Giant Bomb. Why restrict it to full time staff of the selected publications? Expand the pool to improve the selection process.
But fundamentally I think poking holes in strategies to improve diversity, rather than attempting to consider alternative solutions, is the exact kind of thinking that resulted in the selection we got.
Quoting this post in case people need an example of why we need more diversity in the industry at large.
It can be done in a lot of ways. The goal should be to build a team best suited for the task - evaluating an art product. That means you want good, smart people with a varied background - offering a broad perspective on what were the best games of last year.
Set down an independent committee that nominates the judges with such a goal in mind and you get a great jury - one that will end up strengthening the product. Or do something else.
It doesn't have to be 50/50 m/f of course, but it sure as hell shouldn't be 94/6. So don't go for the method that give you the ridiculous outcome of 94/6.
I didn't specify "Giant Bomb Freelancer", just "Freelancer".
Giant Bomb don't use freelancers.
Is the blonde girl from IGN one of the 2? I like her.
If you start to handpick jury-members, your results will also be skewed. I'm all for equality for genders and minorities, but as I've written earlier, I don't think "forcing" it like that, has anything to do with equality.
Sure, there could be more women in the jury. But if you were a woman, how would you feel, if you knew the only reason you got a seat in the jury was because of your gender, not because of your qualites?
Would you consider someone who plays Candy Crush, male or female, and only games like Candy Crush (mainly cell phone games/apps) a gamer?
I would feel like I was picked because I am a women and honored to be apart of a panel of judges because I'm qualified and was not looked over because someone took the time to consider me.
So GiantBomb should hire a freelancer to go on their behalf in order to diversify the jury? That's seems a bit... odd.
But fundamentally I think poking holes in strategies to improve diversity, rather than attempting to consider alternative solutions, is the exact kind of thinking that resulted in the selection we got.
Why would they do that?I didn't specify "Giant Bomb Freelancer", just "Freelancer".
This is very interesting. I work in State Government, in a large agency. In this office, we have a commissioner and deputy commissioner who are both women. Below them we have six branch managers and five of them are women. At the supervisor level, it's about 50/50. I hope this is a sign that things are getting somewhat better in this regard.
If you start to handpick jury-members, your results will also be skewed. I'm all for equality for genders and minorities, but as I've written earlier, I don't think "forcing" it like that, has anything to do with equality.
Sure, there could be more women in the jury. But if you were a woman, how would you feel, if you knew the only reason you got a seat in the jury was because of your gender, not because of your qualites?
I didn't specify "Giant Bomb Freelancer", just "Freelancer".
Why would they do that?
But if you were picked, based on your gender, wouldn't that be the exact opposite of being picked because of your qualifications?
If you invert the question.... The male reviewer would be picked up because his gender too
would you consider someone who only plays tetris and games like Tetris a gamer?
But if you were picked, based on your gender, wouldn't that be the exact opposite of being picked because of your qualifications?
If Giant Bomb are to be trusted to judge for the awards, why could they not be trusted to recommend an individual who they are familiar with but who does not work for them?
They are hand picked. By the outlets. Why not let someone else do it (in independent committee is an example) to secure a better jury? Shouldn't that be the main goal? Where is this extreme loyalty to the process of choice even coming from?
And why would they be there because they are female? They should be there because they are qualified. Or are you telling me it would be impossible to find, say, 10 qualifies females? To evaluate video games?
I'm apart of the gaming industry. I have the qualifications and the years of experience to be able to judge video games fairly. I'm very outnumbered in the industry and I see that there needs to be a change but I would love to be considered if someone had the balls to actually ask me and has seen my work and gave me the honor, and an opportunity that I would have never had - to come here with many other well known experts and judge the thing we all have in common... Video games.
They aren't picking women from a pool of worst journalist. They would be picking from the best as well.
No it is not sexist.
Giant Bomb could submit one of their male staff, and a perhaps a capable woman freelancer who is not employed by Giant Bomb. Why restrict it to full time staff of the selected publications? Expand the pool to improve the selection process.
But fundamentally I think poking holes in strategies to improve diversity, rather than attempting to consider alternative solutions, is the exact kind of thinking that resulted in the selection we got.
Nope, I honestly wouldn't. Now would you like to discuss my question I raised or just "answer" it with another question
It has probably been stated, but isn't it a gross assumption to state a group of same gender/race can't have diverse opinions, tastes, perspectives, etc.? It's sexist and racist all rolled up into one.
Because what would be the point then? What would you say if they decided to bring in a male freelancer?
NeoGAF is far more split over this issue than I anticipated. Disappointed to see so many regressive voices.
Having 31 male judges is indicative of institutional sexism. Big name awards shows like TGA need to include more women to help inspire more women to engage with the industry, for the sake of not just equality, but the quality and depth of all gaming.
The point would be avoiding homegenity in the panel. Which as many people have discussed is desirable for improving the panel.
Why would Giant Bomb submit the names of two men when asked to submit a man and a woman?
Yeah when I made this thread I actually didn't expect that there would be so much resistance and opposition grounded in sexist beliefs. It's pretty disheartening to witness.