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[Jim]

This is the Game Developers Conference, not the E3. And although the keynote was mostly (some rather nice) PR fluff, the days worth of PS3-related developer sessions (and closed door demos) is where more interesting tech stuff will be revealed... although maybe not publicly.

I'm just happy to hear anything significant from the GDC at all... it was only a few years ago where we basically heard not a peep from anyone.

 

[kaching]

Why don't you try responding to the "Xbot" posts that coherently raised issues about the cost of a free online network...

Well, I did that but all I got from you was a snarky and heavily selective read of what I posted.

 

[SolidSnakex]

:lol Looking at the recent posts it seems that Sony did their job really well.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Can anyone clarify the two points I asked about in Amir0x's summary?

1) There is a subscription service to the online network. What is included in this?
2) How does a Blu-Ray disc have 200x the "space for games" than a DVD?

 

[Pedigree Chum]

You have no idea how good their free matchmaking service is or what the attention to upkeep will be on their network. How quickly has Sony responded to cheaters in PS2 games? How many PS2 games have been ruined by cheating/hacking? What's the indication that Sony's level of service (since you won't be paying for it) on PS3 will be any different?

If the online play part is free, then there's no deterrent in place to keep people from being jerks. If you can be an a-hole, get banned and just create a new free account and get back on, then there's no incentive to keep the 12-year-olds / cheaters / jerkwads playing fair. Paying for it at least reduces that a little bit and keeps expectations for the level of service fairly high.

I look at it this way, if movie theaters didn't charge anyone admission and only charged for drinks and stuff, what's to keep any bum from coming in off the street and ruining your moviegoing experience by talking the whole time or throwing popcorn at you? Since neither of you paid, it's not like you can demand your money back or complain too hard about the quality of customer being let in.

You make some good points, nice post.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Just playing devil's advocate here since it's annoying constantly hearing Sony and Nintendo fanboys proclaiming doom for Xbox Live every single time their respective companies make any network-type announcements.
People said that last gen too. It seems to me like Sony is following Microsoft's business plan much more than the other way around. The fact that Sony says "Standard" services are free implies that there is a "premium" service that you will be charged for. There's also implications in this keynote that Sony plans to use additional in-game advertising in online games. Sony isn't going to pay money for Gamespy Arcade services and then give it to consumers for free.

Also for the people who are so eager to say that Playstation Network Platform is the same or better than Live what are you basing this on? Just because something looks good on paper doesn't mean it's good in practice. Sony doesn't even have a working demo of their network to show all they have are some still concept photos and the fanboys are already saying MS is in trouble. Most people didn't imagine that online for PS2 and PSP would suck as much as they did compared to Live -- you have to actually see how these things work in the real world before you can judge them. All we heard about leading up to and immediately following the launch of Live on the original Xbox was how much better Sony's online system for PS2 was going to be because it was a completely free "open" system that left the task of hosting games and the choice of billing up to the 3rd parties. People didn't even care about the unified Live system and gamerscore and achievements, etc. until they saw them in practice.

The Nintendo fanboys also said the exact same stuff about Xbox Live when Nintendo's DS wi-fi gaming was announced. In practice I do not think Nintendo's online gaming functionality is comparable to Xbox Live at all. For the difference I think $50 a year for Live's gold service is easily worth it.

I don't doubt that whatever Sony comes up with for an online network it will be much better than what PSP and PS2 currently have for online. But I think it's way premature to make any kinds of declarations as to how it compares to Xbox Live. Xbox Live doesn't just work good in theory its been working well in practice and Sony does appear to be following Microsoft's lead here. With regards to online I haven't really heard anything original yet from Sony that I think Microsoft doesn't have or hasn't already announced for Xbox Live. I'm sure as the years go by there will be things that are better about each service, but for the moment Sony has a hell of a lot of catching up to do.

QFT. This should be stickied

 

[Furoba]

http://www.gdctv.net/

Watch this space.

 

[Ranger X]

I look at it this way, if movie theaters didn't charge anyone admission and only charged for drinks and stuff, what's to keep any bum from coming in off the street and ruining your moviegoing experience by talking the whole time or throwing popcorn at you? Since neither of you paid, it's not like you can demand your money back or complain too hard about the quality of customer being let in.

What a bad analogy LOL
If they would only charge for food it's because they would gather enough money with that to keep the boat afloat and that's all. They wouldn't let more stupid people come in than before. If the experience is shit or people ruining the movies, they would lose customers, then lose money on food.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

hmmm I want pics and vids

I don't feel the hype at all

 

[rastex]

Just playing devil's advocate here since it's annoying constantly hearing Sony and Nintendo fanboys proclaiming doom for Xbox Live every single time their respective companies make any network-type announcements.
People said that last gen too. It seems to me like Sony is following Microsoft's business plan much more than the other way around. The fact that Sony says "Standard" services are free implies that there is a "premium" service that you will be charged for. There's also implications in this keynote that Sony plans to use additional in-game advertising in online games. Sony isn't going to pay money for Gamespy Arcade services and then give it to consumers for free.

Also for the people who are so eager to say that Playstation Network Platform is the same or better than Live what are you basing this on? Just because something looks good on paper doesn't mean it's good in practice. Sony doesn't even have a working demo of their network to show. All they have are some still concept photos and the fanboys are already saying MS is in trouble? Most people didn't imagine that online for PS2 and PSP would suck as much as they did compared to Live -- you have to actually see how these things work in the real world before you can judge them. All we heard about leading up to and immediately following the launch of Live on the original Xbox was how much better Sony's online system for PS2 was going to be because it was a completely free "open" system that left the task of hosting games and the choice of billing up to the 3rd parties. People didn't even care about the unified Live system and gamerscore and achievements, etc. until they saw them in practice.

The Nintendo fanboys also said the exact same stuff about Xbox Live when Nintendo's DS wi-fi gaming was announced. In practice I do not think Nintendo's online gaming functionality is comparable to Xbox Live at all. For the difference I think $50 a year for Live's gold service is easily worth it.

I don't doubt that whatever Sony comes up with for an online network it will be much better than what PSP and PS2 currently have for online. But I think it's way premature to make any kinds of declarations as to how it compares to Xbox Live. Xbox Live doesn't just work good in theory its been working well in practice and Sony does appear to be following Microsoft's lead here. With regards to online I haven't really heard anything original yet from Sony that I think Microsoft doesn't have or hasn't already announced for Xbox Live. I'm sure as the years go by there will be things that are better about each service, but for the moment Sony has a hell of a lot of catching up to do.

Bingo. We still don't really know ANYTHING, and won't know until the damn thing is released.

 

[sorryaboutdresden]

I strongly doubt that we'll get a video of the keynote, as Sony was pretty clear on their emphasis of no cell phones, computers, or cameras. We will however get videos of the tech demo's shown today. 100% confirmed.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Okay, these points need clarification. What is the subscription service, and how does a Blu-Ray have 200x a DVD?

200x due to 4D baby!11

 

[nfreakct]

I wrote up something on my blog about the Sony keynote. Check it out here.

http://www.thenextquarter.com/main/archives/2006/03/playstation_3_b.html

It was fine, you guys need to remember that this is a development conference and not E3. While some parts were poorly planned (why show a pretty promotional video for SingStar?) otherwise everything hunky-dory.

 

[MadFuzzy]

● Songstar announced for PS3. Songstar is a singing title which supports downloadable games, as well as adding pics and videos using the EyeToy camera peripheral. (Article)

Oh you bastards. It'd better not be a launch title, or I'll *have* to be there on day one.

 

[Ponn]

Here's why online gaming will be free - Sony is pursuing the business model elsewhere:

That's the same thing I was freaking arguing about months ago on why MS can get away with Live free. Sony see's it too. Log on to a McGriddle splash page in the back, bank on your downloads making the money and services. No reason to try and make money off of your service when it makes an excellent trojan horse to the plethora of other revenue opportunities. Actually you end up cutting off a majority of possible revenue.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Just playing devil's advocate here since it's annoying constantly hearing Sony and Nintendo fanboys proclaiming doom for Xbox Live every single time their respective companies make any network-type announcements.
.

I agree with everything you say, and it bears repeating a few times. You don't set up a massive online network and have it perfect out of the box. It's taken MS years to get thiers where it is now, and they are all about networks.


BUT, what this effectively does is put the consumer (actually, more likely the hardcore gamer), in a holding pattern until the PS3 is released. As of right now, the only discernable difference between the two is XBL. With this announcement, it "levels" the playing field in many people's minds.

So even if Sony underdelivers, there is no telling how many people will have "held off" on next gen through the summer, because of these announcements.

So, now it boils down to price point and recognizable exclusives/killer apps.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Well, I did that but all I got from you was a snarky and heavily selective read of what I posted.

Oh, I thought you were seriously commending me for pointing out that Doc Phil's statements about ad revenue made it likely that a Free, Ad-Sponsered SBox Live would make a game of FN(PS)3 look a lot like an Angelfire website.

Did I need to provide more elucidation than that?

 

[hadareud]

I don't quite understand what is so amazing about this. They showed a couple of real time tech demos and announced that they copied xbox live. Everything else was already known for a week.

I'm looking forward to the videos.

 

[jarosh]

Just playing devil's advocate here since it's annoying constantly hearing Sony and Nintendo fanboys proclaiming doom for Xbox Live every single time their respective companies make any network-type announcements...<good stuff>...

wow. what was that? reason?
thank you.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

That's the same thing I was freaking arguing about months ago on why MS can get away with Live free. Sony see's it too. Log on to a McGriddle splash page in the back, bank on your downloads making the money and services. No reason to try and make money off of your service when it makes an excellent trojan horse to the plethora of other revenue opportunities. Actually you end up cutting off a majority of possible revenue.

See my post on previous page. Is there critical mass to make such a service profitable? Questionable.

 

[Mr_Furious]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/03/22/gdc-the-ps3-keynote-blow-by-blow/

 

[Chittagong]

forgot to say that R&C looked absolutely stunning.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

We will however get videos of the tech demo's shown today. 100% confirmed.

That's all I need to hear

 

[Scotch]

I strongly doubt that we'll get a video of the keynote, as Sony was pretty clear on their emphasis of no cell phones, computers, or cameras. We will however get videos of the tech demo's shown today. 100% confirmed.

Great, thanks.

 

[gofreak]

I don't quite understand what is so amazing about this. They showed a couple of real time tech demos and announced that they copied xbox live. Everything else was already known for a week.

The HDD issue was very unclear. This is the first time I've been willing to take it at face value as included.

Asides from that, personally I had low expectations for this conference after Kutaragi's presentation last week. I figured it'd be just a regurgitation of that. Certainly didn't expect them to show off games like they did.

 

[Regret Truth]

It's the way of GAF.

A good press conference = BEST CONSOLE EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, everything else is shit.

A lackluster conference = CONSOLE IS DOOMED, 3RD PARTY, OUT OF THE CONSOLE BUSINESS.

QFT.

I just dont get GAF sometimes. These threads bring out the worst in GAF. From both Sonybots and Xbots. Sonybots clamming the console war is over and xbots trying to downplay an amazing presentation. Neither sides are using logic. Thats shitty.

Anyway, I NEED to see the video of that car being destroyed! Im a physics and animation whore. :lol

 

[Forsete]

I wrote up something on my blog about the Sony keynote. Check it out here.

http://www.thenextquarter.com/main/archives/2006/03/playstation_3_b.html

It was fine, you guys need to remember that this is a development conference and not E3. While some parts were poorly planned (why show a pretty promotional video for SingStar?) otherwise everything hunky-dory.

Thanks.

However you forgot to mention how Motorstorm looked compared to the E3 video?

 

[TheKingsCrown]

forgot to say that R&C looked absolutely stunning.

real time?? final ps3 hardware?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

BUT, what this effectively does is put the consumer (actually, more likely the hardcore gamer), in a holding pattern until the PS3 is released. As of right now, the only discernable difference between the two is XBL. With this announcement, it "levels" the playing field in many people's minds.

So even if Sony underdelivers, there is no telling how many people will have "held off" on next gen through the summer, because of these announcements.

So, now it boils down to price point and recognizable exclusives/killer apps.

That's literally as of right now. You know MS has been holding out on some new XBL functionality for 360. Shit, the Maje has been talking about it el mysterioso style since launch. I truly doubt anyone will be able to make this comparison post-E3.

Che, just nod if Live is going to be a completely different beast as of 11/11/2006, regardless of pricing structure.

 

[AtomicShroom]

People said that last gen too.

Except last gen, Sony's online service came nowhere near close the feature set that Xbox Live had. But if they can implement what they have on paper right now, which is equal to Xbox Live, and give it for free, well then I will gladly leave Xbox Live.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

forgot to say that R&C looked absolutely stunning.

This is what sent me into hyperbolics, did it look real-time to you? If its CG shit I will be dissapointed.

 

[Goreomedy]

hmmm I want pics and vids

Me too.

This thread is an unholy paste of fanboy jubilation and usual suspect cynicism, all based on contradicting blogs. It would be so much more comfortable if we had media to provide something of substance to ground this discussion.

 

[Borys]

Can anyone clarify the two points I asked about in Amir0x's summary?

1) There is a subscription service to the online network. What is included in this?
2) How does a Blu-Ray disc have 200x the "space for games" than a DVD?

1) How could we know?
2) Probably compression techniques (that also can be used on 360) aka the famous Sony "math".

 

[SolidSnakex]

"[11:03] A technical demonstration that looks like a game. Introduces Dylan Jobe (Warhawk). Ambient warfare: combat simulation that's being constantly evaluated in the background. HD behavioral simulation. Significant portion of the system resources are used for the simulation; ocean is procedurally generated; lots of tech-jargon that's supposed to mean it's got some power. Lots of "maps" and "point lights." All of it is in HD, 4x antialiasing. PS3 is complex and powerful, but the developer entry point is accessible. No need for low level optimizations. The demo @e3"

And its a launch title.

 

[Borys]

I just dont get GAF sometimes.

Do not try to "get" GAF.

Embrace it!

 

[SuperPac]

What a bad analogy LOL
If they would only charge for food it's because they would gather enough money with that to keep the boat afloat and that's all. They wouldn't let more stupid people come in than before. If the experience is shit or people ruining the movies, they would lose customers, then lose money on food.

Still, the level of expectations from a free service vs. a pay service is different. And the type of customer each attracts is different, too. That's what I'm getting at. You will get what you pay for, in most instances.

 

[gofreak]

According to Kotaku:

http://www.kotaku.com/

"First, he declined to talk about whether the hard drive will be included in the PS3. Instead, he said that all PS3 games will require the hard drive.

“Hard disk drive is a key feature for the Playstation 3. It is a key feature of the platform.
Developers are designing their games to support a hard drive. Every single game will support a hard drive.”"

Back to square one.

Also, online gaming would appear to be free:

"The basic service for Playstation Live will be free, Harrison reiterated, with only third-party and micro transactions costing anything. In other words, you will be able to play online for free and, at least it sounds like, there will be no tiered system like what is found with Xbox Live.

Harrison said that a new controller will be unveiled at E3, and Harrison stressed that the Immersion lawsuit has nothing to do with its final look."

 

[PhatSaqs]

According to Kotaku:

http://www.kotaku.com/

"First, he declined to talk about whether the hard drive will be included in the PS3. Instead, he said that all PS3 games will require the hard drive.

“Hard disk drive is a key feature for the Playstation 3. It is a key feature of the platform.
Developers are designing their games to support a hard drive. Every single game will support a hard drive.”"

Back to square one.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

I look at it this way, if movie theaters didn't charge anyone admission and only charged for drinks and stuff, what's to keep any bum from coming in off the street and ruining your moviegoing experience by talking the whole time or throwing popcorn at you? Since neither of you paid, it's not like you can demand your money back or complain too hard about the quality of customer being let in.

What a bad analogy LOL
If they would only charge for food it's because they would gather enough money with that to keep the boat afloat and that's all. They wouldn't let more stupid people come in than before. If the experience is shit or people ruining the movies, they would lose customers, then lose money on food.

I think it's a really good analogy. People will tolerate more crap from a free service. If i went to a free cinema i wouldn't mind a few people talking a bit and a poor sound system or whatever. And you most certainly will get quite a lot more bums and twats in a free cinema.

 

[Ponn]

See my post on previous page. Is there critical mass to make such a service profitable? Questionable.

Ask Apple about iTunes. Not exact but similar model. Companies are seeing a good reason to advertise alongside videogames (look at FN03). Opening the door to downloadable movies, music, tv shows, etc. through Sony Connect. And not only that, more then likely transferrable to your PSP. Why limit yourself to $60 bucks a year when you can be getting people excited to get online for free and not scaring those away who don't want to pay while profiting from advertisement and downloads?

 

[Tiger]

All I even care about right now, is seeing a video of the Motorstorm footage. That was the one demo at E3 last year that had me saying "if the final game looks that good, I will own that system for that game".


No one should be defensive for Sony if their real time games don't look as good as those videos at E3 last year. Sony made it's own bed by showing that footage last year, and anyone who is serious about games will hold them accountable to that bar they set for themselves. I know I will.


The conflicting reports about the footage shown today, leave me to believe that it didn't look quite as good as that E3 footage last year. Hopefully that is not the case.

 

[kaching]

Oh, I thought you were seriously commending me for pointing out that Doc Phil's statements about ad revenue made it likely that a Free, Ad-Sponsered SBox Live would make a game of FN(PS)3 look a lot like an Angelfire website.

Did I need to provide more elucidation than that?

No, you don't need to elucidate because it was pretty clear the first time when you picked only one revenue model out of several listed and exaggerated how overbearing it would be to the exclusion of all the other options, that you weren't interested in having an objective conversation about this.

 

[hadareud]

According to Kotaku:

http://www.kotaku.com/

"First, he declined to talk about whether the hard drive will be included in the PS3. Instead, he said that all PS3 games will require the hard drive.

“Hard disk drive is a key feature for the Playstation 3. It is a key feature of the platform.
Developers are designing their games to support a hard drive. Every single game will support a hard drive.”"

Back to square one.

Also, online gaming would appear to be free:

"The basic service for Playstation Live will be free, Harrison reiterated, with only third-party and micro transactions costing anything. In other words, you will be able to play online for free and, at least it sounds like, there will be no tiered system like what is found with Xbox Live.

Harrison said that a new controller will be unveiled at E3, and Harrison stressed that the Immersion lawsuit has nothing to do with its final look."

Oh god, I can't believe this.

What are they waiting for??? And does this really mean that all games also have to be designed to run without a harddrive?

If they announce that it will be optional at E3 I will be very pissed off.

 

[Kolgar]

Why don't you try responding to the "Xbot" posts that coherently raised issues about the cost of a free online network and MS' ability to adapt to Sony's advances (email accessibility and video chat) within a few weeks of right this second.

It's moot. All these features will be more or less standard eventually, anyway. The big hoo-ha right now is, they're coming to a PlayStation platform which has not had them before.

A full-featured online service within the context of a Sony game platform - with all the developer support and IPs that have become a staple of the PlayStation brand - removes a key advantage MS previously enjoyed.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The basic service for Playstation Live will be free, Harrison reiterated, with only third-party and micro transactions costing anything. In other words, you will be able to play online for free and, at least it sounds like, there will be no tiered system like what is found with Xbox Live.

It's on now.

 

[superfly]

Wow it feels like may! Except is March!!

Now will there be a Thursdayton???

 

[gofreak]

Surprised Warhawk is using 4xAA! I'd have thought most would use 2xAA at most..

 

[PhatSaqs]

It's on now.

It sounds like only First party offerings will be free.

 

[human5892]

According to Kotaku:

http://www.kotaku.com/

"First, he declined to talk about whether the hard drive will be included in the PS3. Instead, he said that all PS3 games will require the hard drive.

“Hard disk drive is a key feature for the Playstation 3. It is a key feature of the platform.
Developers are designing their games to support a hard drive. Every single game will support a hard drive.”"

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE

 

[Ranger X]

Still, the level of expectations from a free service vs. a pay service is different. And the type of customer each attracts is different, too. That's what I'm getting at. You will get what you pay for, in most instances.

The money will be made elsewhere. You'll get ads, Sony will gather tons of sponsors for lots of things, microtransaction for 10 thousand different cool things, etc.
You won't even notice their bill growing in the background.
They only seem to have a business model where the revenue does rely on online play wich is entirely possible. The fact the basic service will be free is sure not related to it's quality.