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[Compsiox]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

Get the Vive. It will be supported as much as the Rift and there will undoubtedly be work arounds to play Oculus Exclusive games on Vive. Also room scale!!

 

[Seiru]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

Might want to wait until after this Wednesday to see what Oculus' launch lineup looks like. I'm personally sticking with my Rift preorder, but it depends if you care about the controllers/don't want to wait until Touch is released later this year.

 

[Lemonte]

I pre ordered Vive. Roomscale was deciding factor for me.

 

[Durante]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

I bought the Vive and will certainly keep it. Room-scale is the most exciting thing in VR right now to me. As a KS backer I'm getting the Rift for free -- I'm still considering whether or not to sell it. But probably not.

 

[Zalusithix]

Because it isn't an issue in this first generation (HMD's are big lumps across the line). It's a bit easier to pull a physical lever then doing it in the game menu and the optics don't follow the couple of millimeters +/- adjustments some people make but that's it. Eventually all VR 'HMDs' will start to have two physical screens (or lightfield projectors) as they get closer to swimming-goggles in shape.

I can't wait for the day when this is practical. Light field displays (like the Nvidia prototypes) are the holy grail of VR. No big bulky lenses needed. No glasses / contacts needed even for those with vision problems. It'll probably be decades before we get there though. Half due to the manufacturing of the displays and half due to the massively increased GPU workload.

 

[Mindlog]

Has Nvidia done more with the initial prototype yet?
I haven't kept close track of those devices, but that first impression was quite remarkable.

 

[Absinthe]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

Preordered Rift in the first 10 minutes. I had a DK2 and couldn't wait to see what Vive was going to do.

Looking back I am happy with the Oculus decision. Slightly less noticeable sde, integrated headphones, and the few exclusives make it perfect for my gaming style.

Room scale games are looking really good though. I'm excited to see what they do with Touch and Vive this fall when more full fledged experiences arrive.

I bought the Vive and will certainly keep it. Room-scale is the most exciting thing in VR right now to me. As a KS backer I'm getting the Rift for free -- I'm still considering whether or not to sell it. But probably not.

I've been kicking myself for not backing it when I had the chance

 

[Nzyme32]

This is pure speculation on your part.

Move controllers work while occluded. People playing The Deep on PSVR didn't report that the flare gun didn't work while facing away from the camera that I can recall.

This can not be true. If the tracked object is occluded, it can not be tracked. It could only possibly coast along off an IMU for a short while, but inherently will have tracking issues and eventually no tracking at all - because it is occluded, ie can not be tracked by the camera, which can't see it.

You can face away from the camera - that doesn't mean the controllers are occluded. If your body movements block line of site, they are occluded. This is almost a certainty when turned around away from the camera and trying to interact in front of you, which is why you have at least 2 tracking sources preferably at opposing corners of a room to counteract that.

This is why PSVR and Rift with forward cameras only, are focused primarily on forward facing experiences, whereas Vive and its opposing corners setup are supporting 360 experiences and room scale. When Touch releases, if cameras are on opposing corners Oculus might support it (no confirmation yet since they want to focus on the forward facing side of things) - however Steam say they will support roomscale/360 games for Touch (which I'd guess will force Oculus to support the same anyway).

 

[The Elite]

It's a Rift for me. Hope to be in the first shipments.

I simply don't have the space for room scale so the lower price over functionality makes sense.

 

[Cartman86]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

Have bothered preordered and will keep both. Vive is the most interesting of the two for me by far right now. Either way I am currently in this haze where I non-VR games are kind of boring. I wonder if it will last.

 

[The Chef]

Surprisingly enough the game that REALLY sold me on it has to be the Job Simulator. That just looks like the most insanely fun game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO429iymBdo

When he starts screwing around later on I was dying laughing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX7D_d3nwqU

 

[artsi]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

I'm buying both, but Rift is coming first. Vive will follow when there's more interesting room scale software, the current offering doesn't really excite me.

Also a chance to save 90€ of shipping costs if it comes to the stores.

 

[lukeskymac]

This can not be true. If the tracked object is occluded, it can not be tracked. It could only possibly coast along off an IMU for a short while, but inherently will have tracking issues and eventually no tracking at all - because it is occluded, ie can not be tracked by the camera, which can't see it.

You can face away from the camera - that doesn't mean the controllers are occluded. If your body movements block line of site, they are occluded. This is almost a certainty when turned around away from the camera and trying to interact in front of you, which is why you have at least 2 tracking sources preferably at opposing corners of a room to counteract that.

I'm pretty sure you can get a rough estimate of their trajectory using accelerometer+gyro data.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

Preordered the Vive. Since I am in the July orders, I can see whether there will be an Oculus SDK wrapper and would change to a Vive then.

Right now the "exclusives" for the Oculus interest me too much sadly, even though I think the Lighthouse/Roomscale of the Vive looks great.

Get the Vive. It will be supported as much as the Rift and there will undoubtedly be work arounds to play Oculus Exclusive games on Vive. Also room scale!!

Might want to wait until after this Wednesday to see what Oculus' launch lineup looks like. I'm personally sticking with my Rift preorder, but it depends if you care about the controllers/don't want to wait until Touch is released later this year.

I bought the Vive and will certainly keep it. Room-scale is the most exciting thing in VR right now to me. As a KS backer I'm getting the Rift for free -- I'm still considering whether or not to sell it. But probably not.

Preordered Rift in the first 10 minutes. I had a DK2 and couldn't wait to see what Vive was going to do.

Looking back I am happy with the Oculus decision. Slightly less noticeable sde, integrated headphones, and the few exclusives make it perfect for my gaming style.

Room scale games are looking really good though. I'm excited to see what they do with Touch and Vive this fall when more full fledged experiences arrive.



I've been kicking myself for not backing it when I had the chance

Have bothered preordered and will keep both. Vive is the most interesting of the two for me by far right now. Either way I am currently in this haze where I non-VR games are kind of boring. I wonder if it will last.

I'm buying both, but Rift is coming first. Vive will follow when there's more interesting room scale software, the current offering doesn't really excite me.

Also a chance to save 90€ of shipping costs if it comes to the stores.

Damn guys thanks for the quick input. General responses seem to be go with the Vive bc of room scaling and I think that's what I'm gonna do. I'll have a chance to save up the extra money bc of the extra few months of waiting. Are regular games (alien isolation, skyrim, etc.) Able to be played with the Vive like the videos I've seen of them playing on the Rift dks?

 

[Compsiox]

Damn guys thanks for the quick input. General responses seem to be go with the Vive bc of room scaling and I think that's what I'm gonna do. I'll have a chance to save up the extra money bc of the extra few months of waiting. Are regular games (alien isolation, skyrim, etc.) Able to be played with the Vive like the videos I've seen of them playing on the Rift dks?

VorpX (the software you're referencing) is getting Vive support.

 

[Onemic]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

I preordered both the Rift and the Vive, but I'm probably gonna cancel my Rift preorder. (Im part of the July Shipment) Roomscale is way too big of a feature to ignore. The alleged exclusivity fiasco from Oculus definitely isnt helping sway my decision either.

VorpX (the software you're referencing) is getting Vive support.

I really wonder how effective Vorpx will be with the consumer version of these headsets. Is it still gonna make most people sick?

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

Going for Vive, room scale just looks so good, Rift is preordered too, but that's July and Vive is day one so that helped my decision also.

 

[Nzyme32]

Damn guys thanks for the quick input. General responses seem to be go with the Vive bc of room scaling and I think that's what I'm gonna do. I'll have a chance to save up the extra money bc of the extra few months of waiting. Are regular games (alien isolation, skyrim, etc.) Able to be played with the Vive like the videos I've seen of them playing on the Rift dks?

VorpX (the software you're referencing) is getting Vive support.

Yeah that's also pretty important to mention. A wrapper will almost certainly be made for Vive to play Rift games; just a matter of time.

From my experience I would pick the Vive if I could. Playing around in both roomscale and 360 degree games is so much more engaging, natural and just outright fun vs being locked to a more forward facing interaction and playing style. There's no real going back. I'm definitely interested in all the controller based VR for certain games, but its not even a contest. Despite all that, I'm sitting out for a while since I don't really have the money to spend on VR right now over other things. Hopefully that can change.

 

[Zalusithix]

Has Nvidia done more with the initial prototype yet?
I haven't kept close track of those devices, but that first impression was quite remarkable.

I imagine they have, but I don't know of any new information being made public. It was very much a research project and I doubt it's much closer to being practical today than it was then. We'll probably only hear more about the tech when some breakthrough happens or it becomes commercially viable.

When that day comes though... oh boy. If we consider the current VR situation as "VR 2.0" when compared to what was possible back in the day, then a light field display would mark the beginning of VR 3.0. Totally natural visual reproduction in a compact package.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Half Life 3 is coming for Vive
Believe

Meanwhile Sony is sitting on its killer app right here:

 

[Compsiox]

I'm kinda upset that devs are moving away from first person games cause they don't make me motion sick and I know I'm not alone.

 

[Ogni-XR21]

I thought I'd post this for those who haven't seen it. It's a talk demonstrating the psmove as an input device (with Q&A at the end). It's a good video for people curious about what the new controllers can do that gamepads or things like the wiimote can't. It's with 2D demos on the ps3, but you can imagine how VR would change the experience. Feel free to add it to the OP if you think it's helpful.

https://youtu.be/sRtF3qMucuA


Bonus info if you didn't know, this guy is designing the UI for the game Dreams, which is rumored to come to PSVR

Thanks for posting this.

In that video you can also see what happens when the light of the move controller is occluded, it's WAY of...

 

[Onemic]

I still dont know how non first person games even work in VR

 

[AmyS]

Ha, this is amazing to read, 3-page GamePro magazine article from November 1990 on Virtual Reality and related things. This was like 4-5 years before Nintendo Virtual Boy.

Talk about high-end VR. Now a quarter century later, here we are

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah that's also pretty important to mention. A wrapper will almost certainly be made for Vive to play Rift games; just a matter of time.

From my experience I would pick the Vive if I could. Playing around in both roomscale and 360 degree games is so much more engaging, natural and just outright fun vs being locked to a more forward facing interaction and playing style. There's no real going back. I'm definitely interested in all the controller based VR for certain games, but its not even a contest. Despite all that, I'm sitting out for a while since I don't really have the money to spend on VR right now over other things. Hopefully that can change.

i would bet that most developers will add vive compatibility as soon as they can - it doesn't make sense to exclude that audience.

i still don't know what i'm doing with regards to headsets. getting both but will only keep one. there are too many unknowns to decide in advance, and it might be some odd, tiny, subjective thing that gets me to choose one over the other

reasons to choose OR for me:
- sounds like it is more comfortable
- integrated headphones means one less thing to plug in and take off
- lots of games supported out of the gate due to devs having older kits for a long time
- xbox one controller. my 360 pad is on its last legs so this is handy for me.
- touch is coming in 6 months and I expect most vive 'functionally exclusive' games to come to OR. i also expect oculus to attempt to closely match vive's room scale tracking

reasons to choose vive
- magic.


seriously, i can't imagine the difference it'll make to have room tracking and motion controls. i think which i choose will come down to how blown away i am with vive, and in particular budget cuts, job simulator and tiltbrush. if they are so amazing i can't wait another 6-9 months to experience them again on the rift, then i'll keep the vive. if the initial taste is enough to tide me over, and the OR headset is noticably better, i might swing that way

 

[SolidSnakex]

Half Life 3 is coming for Vive
Believe

Meanwhile Sony is sitting on its killer app right here:

"What are the chances we're going to get a Project Morpheus version of Jumping Flash?"

Yoshida leans back in his chair and begins to laugh. I tell him he may not be taking this seriously enough.

"There are some ideas from Worldwide studios, because there are some fans of the title back in the day. I agree it would be great in VR! Yeah. Hmmm," he puts his hand to his chin and thinks about it for a second. "Yes. Thank you."

http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/9/8160041/jumping-flash-on-morpheus

 

[sk3]

I would've jumped on the rift, but bundling the xbone controller and no touch controllers was a deal breaker. I'll wait for that bundle and see how things go.

I pre-ordered the vive because it is the complete package.

 

[shiftplusone]

reasons to choose OR for me:
- sounds like it is more comfortable
- integrated headphones means one less thing to plug in and take off
- lots of games supported out of the gate due to devs having older kits for a long time
- xbox one controller. my 360 pad is on its last legs so this is handy for me.
- touch is coming in 6 months and I expect most vive 'functionally exclusive' games to come to OR. i also expect oculus to attempt to closely match vive's room scale tracking

same reasons for me (except the xb1 controller, i'm okay without one) but by all accounts from every source the OR doesn't squeeze as much on your head

I got my OR day 1 preorder and i'm keeping it happily.


Tiltbrush looks so fucking cool though, I am disappointed by the delay in the touch controllers. Have they said a reason why they're so far behind on that? Seems like they're not even ready for production at the moment, but people who have used them have said they work fine?

I'd rather have them than the vive wands myself as well. a buddy is getting a vive though so i'll get a chance to goof around with that

 

[artsi]

I am disappointed by the delay in the touch controllers. Have they said a reason why they're so far behind on that? Seems like they're not even ready for production at the moment, but people who have used them have said they work fine?

Palmer tweeted this just today.

Personally I'm more interested in the Touch design, as it's more closer to manipulating stuff with your own hands compared to this approach.

 

[Monger]

What some answers from everyone? Which pcvr are you getting? I have both preordered, can only get 1. Leaning towards the vive

Vive. Room scale is what I'm most excited about. By far the most fun I've had in VR is with others in a social setting and the addition of room scale is perfect for this. The performance aspect will be great. I'm also not huge on VR with a traditional controller outside of a cockpit/sim. I would honestly rather chill and play on my 10 ft wide screen most of the time.

The camera and Bluetooth integration will be nice additions to have as well. Won't have to worry about pulling the headset off.

I'm not sure about touch vs wands. The touch looks like it sits in your hands better but is reported to be weird when picking things up and is more of a pistol grip vs gripping a tool. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

 

[pj]

Regarding ergonomics and comfort, remember one of the biggest differences between Vive Pre and Consumer is the revised strap that's supposed to be much better.

Good point.

"Taking Vive one step further, with refreshed branding and an updated headstrap, the Vive consumer edition builds upon the innovative features that were introduced into the Vive Pre. "

Oculus still seems overall like a more refined product, but it will be interesting to see how they compare when people have both consumer versions in hand.

 

[Bsigg12]

Good point.

"Taking Vive one step further, with refreshed branding and an updated headstrap, the Vive consumer edition builds upon the innovative features that were introduced into the Vive Pre. "

Oculus still seems overall like a more refined product, but it will be interesting to see how they compare when people have both consumer versions in hand.

I can't imagine the Vive will change all that much between the Pre and their CV1 since they are shipping Pre units to media outlets.

 

[The Chef]

http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/9/8160041/jumping-flash-on-morpheus

Holy shit no way.

 

[pj]

I can't imagine the Vive will change all that much between the Pre and their CV1 since they are shipping Pre units to media outlets.

They probably wouldn't have said anything if there was no appreciable difference between the Pre's strap and the consumer version strap. There doesn't seem to be a giant gulf in comfort between rift and vive so any improvement in the strap will bring them closer together.

 

[mrklaw]

Good point.

"Taking Vive one step further, with refreshed branding and an updated headstrap, the Vive consumer edition builds upon the innovative features that were introduced into the Vive Pre. "

Oculus still seems overall like a more refined product, but it will be interesting to see how they compare when people have both consumer versions in hand.

i'm sure we will see various mods for comfort too

 

[Dreams-Visions]

They're pretty close. I had heard there was less screen door effect on the Rift than Vive, so it's either better optics or pixel fill.

That's most likely because the Vive has a higher FOV. Seems to me the 2 companies targeted the same resolution but differed in how much it should be spread across your FOV. Thus, marginally more screen dooring in the Vive. Just two different design opinions on what the balance of FOV vs SDE should be. It doesn't sound like anyone will be disappointed with either headset so it's not going to be a real issue.

 

[mrklaw]

They probably wouldn't have said anything if there was no appreciable difference between the Pre's strap and the consumer version strap. There doesn't seem to be a giant gulf in comfort between rift and vive so any improvement in the strap will bring them closer together.

its also a classic PR line to get reviewers/previewers to postpone comment on specific elements of a product

 

[mrklaw]

That's most likely because the Vive has a higher FOV. Seems to me the 2 companies targeted the same resolution but differed in how much it should be spread across your FOV. Thus, marginally more screen dooring in the Vive. Just two different design opinions on what the balance of FOV vs SDE should be. It doesn't sound like anyone will be disappointed with either headset so it's not going to be a real issue.

this made me think - what games or apps will be on both at launch? i'd want to compare things like SDE and FoV and it would make sense to use the same software

 

[Vyse The Legend]

this made me think - what games or apps will be on both at launch? i'd want to compare things like SDE and FoV and it would make sense to use the same software

Elite: Dangerous or w/e the updated version is called.

 

[Zalusithix]

That's most likely because the Vive has a higher FOV. Seems to me the 2 companies targeted the same resolution but differed in how much it should be spread across your FOV. Thus, marginally more screen dooring in the Vive. Just two different design opinions on what the balance of FOV vs SDE should be. It doesn't sound like anyone will be disappointed with either headset so it's not going to be a real issue.

FOV might have been partially dictated by the optics being used rather than an explicit design decision.

 

[plagiarize]

This can not be true. If the tracked object is occluded, it can not be tracked. It could only possibly coast along off an IMU for a short while, but inherently will have tracking issues and eventually no tracking at all - because it is occluded, ie can not be tracked by the camera, which can't see it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Move#Technology

A pair of inertial sensors inside the controller, a three-axis linear accelerometer and a three-axis angular rate sensor, are used to track rotation as well as overall motion. An internal magnetometer is also used for calibrating the controller's orientation against the Earth's magnetic field to help correct against cumulative error (drift) by the inertial sensors. In addition, an internal temperature sensor is used to adjust the inertial sensor readings against temperature effects. The inertial sensors can be used for dead reckoning in cases which the camera tracking is insufficient, such as when the controller is obscured behind the player's back.

As I said, I don't know how good the dead reckoning is. I don't know how quickly they get out of sync, and how soon that becomes noticeable.

You can face away from the camera - that doesn't mean the controllers are occluded. If your body movements block line of site, they are occluded. This is almost a certainty when turned around away from the camera and trying to interact in front of you, which is why you have at least 2 tracking sources preferably at opposing corners of a room to counteract that.

This is why PSVR and Rift with forward cameras only, are focused primarily on forward facing experiences, whereas Vive and its opposing corners setup are supporting 360 experiences and room scale. When Touch releases, if cameras are on opposing corners Oculus might support it (no confirmation yet since they want to focus on the forward facing side of things) - however Steam say they will support roomscale/360 games for Touch (which I'd guess will force Oculus to support the same anyway).

I understand all of this. But I stand by the notion that it's speculation right now that PSVR can't do something approaching room scale. Can it do it as well? Will there potentially be issues that don't exist with the other methods?

We can all speculate... but we don't even know what the final thing looks like yet. Sony could debut new motion controllers tomorrow for all we know. It strikes me as a disingenuous reason to try and rule out PSVR as a high end VR setup, and I stand by that.

Maybe you'll have to portal turn in Budget Cuts on PSVR to pick up something that fell behind you. Does that really invalidate PSVR? That instead of solely teleporting to move, that you also potentially do a teleport 180?

TLDR: We know touch will support room scale, even if it doesn't do it as well. We don't know what PSVR will support yet. We presume it has a single camera setup with occlusion issues... but lets wait until we see what's in the box before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[tr00per]

entirely hypothetical now, but I wonder if a wide angle camera in the headset facing forward would have allowed Sony/Oculus to track motion controllers even when occluded from the main camera sensor? Probably only as a fallback but it might have helped.

I wondered this too, and I also thought about having a microphone. In regards to psvr, when I spoke to someone from Magic Labs, they said they experimented with it but decided against it for various reasons. Cost, complexity, heat, bandwidth, weight, etc. Basically they wanted to put the least amount of stuff in there as possible.

Well, not quite. Sphere tracking was used to correct drift, more so than the magnetometer. In principle, Move tracking is pretty much the same as PSVR tracking. Sensors for speed + camera for accurate position tracking/drift countermeasure.

Thanks for the extra bit of info with regards to IR lights btw.

I'd say "as well" rather than "only". It's mostly for XYZ position tracking (as you most likely know already). On that note, let's not forget PS camera is stereo and tracks depth (both Move and headset) via triangulation rather than pattern/object size. Don't know how that affects robustness compared to the Rift mono IR camera solution tho.

I was going to say that before you posted it. The spheres are what gives it 3D (depth) information. When they are occluded, you are at the mercy of the move's internal sensors. The amount of sensors in the move+camera can coordinate for redundancy (accuracy) in tracking.

Thanks for posting this.

In that video you can also see what happens when the light of the move controller is occluded, it's WAY of...

Np. Also, see above.

I still dont know how non first person games even work in VR

Perfectly fine. Still much more immersive than TV. Insomniac is doing one for OR.


Edit: see?

Really really well. Just have to design for it - like anything else in VR.

 

[Fafalada]

The color really has nothing to do with it, the reason PSVR uses colored markers is because they're reappropriating old tech (PS camera) for use with it which is incapable of tracking IR lights because they wanted to do mixed reality stuff like this:

I kind of doubt that - PS3's Eye could track IR lights just fine - but Move went with multicolored lights probably more for aesthetic reasons than anything else (if that ball never lit-up and in multiple colors, it would look a hell of a lot less interesting). Size of the light sources is a more relevant point.

Well, not quite. Sphere tracking was used to correct drift, more so than the magnetometer.

The issue with magnetometer use was stability due to interference. It was all but completely deprecated in SDK as result - but when the environment "was" stable - it worked quite well. Razor Hydra pretty much works that way - but they were forced to add a base-station to generate a stable field-reference IIRC.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

this made me think - what games or apps will be on both at launch? i'd want to compare things like SDE and FoV and it would make sense to use the same software

Elite: Dangerous
Descent: Underground
Windlands


and a bunch of others I'm sure.

 

[jstevenson]

I still dont know how non first person games even work in VR

Really really well. Just have to design for it - like anything else in VR.

 

[Turin Turambar]

This makes absolutely zero sense. Without the Vive, the VR space would belong entirely to Oculus; that's not good for anyone except Oculus. The Vive's existence is the very essence of competition, not its antithesis.

Obviously, they want competition when it's favorable to them, but not when it's in detriment of their own market.

 

[Zalusithix]

Obviously, they want competition when it's favorable to them, but not when it's in detriment of their own market.

What actions has Valve taken to quash competition in any market it takes part in? As a company they have a number of problems, but being anti-competitive isn't one of them.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

So apparently star wars trials of tatooine is exclusive to vive?

 

[Cartman86]

Really really well. Just have to design for it - like anything else in VR.

There is nothing like the experience of actually taking cover and peeking out to take shots in VR.

EDIT: Oh non first person. Yeah those are great too. Like you are a part of the world. Especially ones where you are among "little people" or viewing a diorama of sorts.

 

[OmarTheHippo]

So apparently star wars trials of tatooine is exclusive to vive?

Exclusive by necessity of hardware limitations (aka Vive currently being the exclusive room scale VR hardware)? Or exclusive because of an exclusivity agreement. Big difference =/

Source?