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The iPhone 4 |OT|
- Thread starter Major Williams
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So Apple is supposed to future proof their SDK so that whatever new features they implement in the future current apps can already magically take advantage of? Of course its dependent on the developer, but its not like they have to sit there and re-write the entire application.Marty Chinn said:
Youre asking for the fucking impossible. Youre like that guy on the at&t forum wondering why his 3GS didnt have the upgraded Retina Display when he installed iOS4 on it.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Marty Chinn said:
Edit: I won't feed the troll
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
They only submit the compiled application so that everyone gets to protect their IP, that is the benefit of API, ABI, and libraries, and why they were invented years ago. Apple had no choice, they have to rely on developers that take an active role in the maintenance of their app. I think that is a good thing and I try to only get apps from developers that actively respond to inquiry, post blogs, or tweets.
DjangoReinhardt said:
By the way, should have posted this earlier:
iOS 4 Jailbreak: Why It Still Matters
Craaaaap... if this isn't like personally the BEST seller on the i4, I don't know freakin what is. What they've achieved here is brilliant:
http://philipbloom.net/2010/06/27/the-first-iphone-4-cinematic-film-announced/
Direct vimeo link to the video here: http://vimeo.com/12866065
http://philipbloom.net/2010/06/27/the-first-iphone-4-cinematic-film-announced/
Direct vimeo link to the video here: http://vimeo.com/12866065
Odious Tea
Member
Cannot. Wait.Charred Greyface said:
Marty Chinn
Member
I just don't see how it's trolling. Apple fans seem to jump quickly into defense mode when someone says Apple is flawed rather than just reading carefully what was said. Did I say anything untrue? Yet people are super defending Apple. No matter how you slice it, it's a weakness, flaw, drawback, whatever you want to call it in their implementation. Why does Apple's implementation has to be considered perfect in every way? I didn't say their multitasking concept was crap, I was just pointing out a flaw. Yet somehow you guys equate the two as the same.Nazgul_Hunter said:
The_Inquisitor
Member
Has Marty realized the app being crippled has nothing to do with multitasking yet?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Kill me.Marty Chinn said:
Marty Chinn
Member
Part of the app still works, plus that doesn't change the fact that suspend is developer dependent. Why is everyone so upset that I point out this indisputable fact?numble said:
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Hmm, stopped by the mall today on my way home to check the new display.
Store was roped off and busy as fuck.
Made eye contact with some some cute girl employee that was like "yeah, come back later."
No big deal, wasn't looking to buy but very surprised. Though it was one of the tiny apple stores.
Store was roped off and busy as fuck.
Made eye contact with some some cute girl employee that was like "yeah, come back later."
No big deal, wasn't looking to buy but very surprised. Though it was one of the tiny apple stores.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Marty Chinn said:
Oh jesus dude.
THE APPLICATION IS MOSTLY BROKEN BECAUSE SOME OF THE COMPANIES IT PULLED DATA FROM DECIDED NOT TO PROVIDE THE NEEDED INFORMATION FOR FREE ANYMORE.
The analogy is what happened to the roku boxes w/ Hulu a few months ago.
The application breaking has ZERO to do with multitasking. Your argument has absolutely NOTHING to do with the app breaking. An update to add multitasking will NOT fix this.
Marty Chinn said:
I could scroll and skim through any Apple thread, not giving a crap about what anyone else says, but if I see Marty's name or avatar, I always have to read his posts. Why?
"I wonder if, for once, Marty will say anything positive about Apple."
Nope.
And if he does, its followed by something negative. Its quite interesting.
EDIT: Everyone should try it, its fun!:lol
Marty Chinn
Member
Wow are you responding without reading? I never said the app breaking had to do with multitasking. I was using the app as an example of where an app is no longer supported which means that it would not be updated to support multitasking. It was an example of how relying in every developer to update their app to support even the basic suspend will result in some apps not ever supporting it which exposes a weakness in Apple's implementation.The_Inquisitor said:
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I'm sure they would have, but I was in a hurry. It wasn't just "walk in and play."
And seriously that store is like the size of my living room.
And seriously that store is like the size of my living room.
Okay, thanks for pointing out that fact. It truly is indisputable. Now maybe you can stop being upset that were pointing out to you that it is also an indisputable fact that it would have been impossible for Apple to retroactively add multitasking capabilities to all applications.Marty Chinn said:
Thank you very much.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Marty Chinn said:
Ok... But why the fuck would it matter whether it gets multitasking since the application is broken?
The complaint of apps needing to update is overblown. It's not that hard to update.
Freyjadour
Member
JayDub said:
Honestly, reading any Apple related thread is like watching two warring tribes of baboons throw feces at each other. It's equally nonsensical on both sides.
So what did everyone do with their 3G and 3GS phones. I have yet to sell my 3GS phone but did receive some offers from co-workers, my sister's coworkers and some friends of mine. Thinking about keeping it for a back up for a while. If I had a boyfriend I probably would have given him my 3GS phone.
:lol ok let's slow down peopleThe_Inquisitor said:
On one hand Marty does have a point: adding multitasking features is solely in the hands of developers and many users will be disappointed if their fave app isn't updated to take advantage of these features. Apple could have implemented multitasking in such a way that multitasking is by default system wide and user enabled (like some of their own included apps) but they choose not to. I'm personally waiting for RadioShift to be updated but that's looking very unlikely.
On the on the hand: Marty, the example app you're using to argue the point is a bad choice. Functionality might have been removed from the app but that doesn't stop the developers from still updating it just with the Netflix info. Unless you planned to keep a previous version of the app that somehow still access to all the features (in which case Apple requiring a recompile to add multitasking would be a problem) complaining about Now Playing and multitasking doesn't make much sense.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Marty, can you explain why some of my Windows applications don't have a Jump List or thumbnails in their taskbar icon? I mean, they're new features to Windows 7, so every old application is going to automatically have it, right?
Marty Chinn
Member
The only thing I question is if apple could have a suspend state handled by the os. Other than that I never said it was reasonable for apple to patch all the apps themselves. The only thing I said was it was a flaw in their implementation to which I got attacked for stating.fireside said:
The_Inquisitor
Member
Marty Chinn said:
No I believe you were attacked because you used a non-sequitor argument. Your argument is valid alone, but has nothing to do with what happened with this application.
It may be this implementation saves more battery. Honestly I don't know if anyone really knows.
Marty, you need to go back to computer school or something, don't you think that if apple could of they would of? It wasn't possible, so they made it as simple as possible for the developer. The developer only has to take a few minutes to download the new sdk, hit recompile, then hit the submit button. If the developer can't be bothered to do that, why would you even want to continue using their apps? Now playing is an odd and rare example in that it is not getting update anymore because it is pointless to do so because the places it was getting data from cut it off. It is a dead app, and will not be updated, get over it.
Marty Chinn
Member
I don't doubt that there are benefits to this implementation. In fact I never stated what I thought of their choice. I only pointed out one flaw from that implementation.The_Inquisitor said:
It really went from me being shocked about one of my favorite apps being now dead to which I didn't realize was crippled because netflix was still working in it which lead me to remembering being concerned about apps not getting updated to support multitasking. That's what transpired and I admit it was brief due to the shock and typing from my iPhone 4, but what I'm saying is not something unreasonable.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Marty Chinn said:
No it's not unreasonable. But you didnt mention at all in your original post or subsequent ones you were talking about another pet peeve of yours. :lol :lol
Marty Chinn
Member
That goes under the assumption that apple does everything perfect or right which we all know isn't true. Just because apple didn't do something means that it couldn't be done.ivedoneyourmom said:
Also, as someone already pointed out, it's not as simple as hitting recompile. Some work has to be done. If an app works, it's not always financially feasible to go back and constantly update it. That suddenly doesn't make the app useless if they have moved on.
Technosteve
Banned
iphone apps background netflix iOS4 multitasking
i'm just going to write key words instead of sentences and see what marty says.
i'm just going to write key words instead of sentences and see what marty says.
Marty Chinn
Member
I did, read again.The_Inquisitor said:
The_Inquisitor
Member
Marty Chinn said:
Yeah but Marty this is a full operating system update. Your argument is quite similar to asking why all Windows XP/NT applications dont work in Vista/7. Pre iOS4 was never designed for multitasking. Thus they have to make a huge change. Rather than have a sloppy interpreter, which may have slowed down the overall speed of the phone, they just had devs shoulder the burden for a one time thing. Besides, you will notice most of the updates aren't just multitasking, but also other fixes. The multitasking updates are being rolled in with other fixes.
Please read your post again. You acknowledge that app is broken due to 3rd parties. Then you state your hatred is because of the multitask implementation. See how this does not flow at all with what you said?
Marty, you got me to get up and switch to my computer for posting this:
I don't think anyone thinks Apple is perfect, however they get much more scrutiny than is deserved, is it because of their past transgressions back in the 90's, or peoples fear in technological/social change, or is it just fun to gang up on the popular kid; I don't know, however unless you have read the Cocoa Touch/iOS 4 developer documentation I don't think you should be talking about 'flaws' that may or may not exist in the implementation.
So I right now am going to be posting some quotes from the Apple Developer Documentation website so that you can better educate yourself on the implementation; The website can be found here: https://developer.apple.com/iphone/library/documentation/iPhone/Conceptual/iPhoneOSProgrammingGuide/BackgroundExecution/BackgroundExecution.html (Most likely requires a membership)
Now what that means is that the code that needs to be changed is to make sure it behaves like it used to prior to 4.0, otherwise apps would be limited to only running on 4.0, so most likely a developer would have to add a little bit of case logic to determine what OS it is running on. If it does not do that, it will only work for 4.0 and up.
This means that your app has to be willing to save at any second, because the OS may find it needed to kill it without user intervention.
In fact, if the app is linked against the 4.0 SDK and does not want to actually use the save states or any multitasking features it would get for free from the os the developer has to manually 'opt out'
Feel free to take a look at the documentation and see if you could have came up with a better implementation than Apple, because I think they did a pretty good job with very little compromise, and took most of the burden off of the developers.
*edit* Stupid me, I forgot to hit copy on the last quote.
I don't think anyone thinks Apple is perfect, however they get much more scrutiny than is deserved, is it because of their past transgressions back in the 90's, or peoples fear in technological/social change, or is it just fun to gang up on the popular kid; I don't know, however unless you have read the Cocoa Touch/iOS 4 developer documentation I don't think you should be talking about 'flaws' that may or may not exist in the implementation.
So I right now am going to be posting some quotes from the Apple Developer Documentation website so that you can better educate yourself on the implementation; The website can be found here: https://developer.apple.com/iphone/library/documentation/iPhone/Conceptual/iPhoneOSProgrammingGuide/BackgroundExecution/BackgroundExecution.html (Most likely requires a membership)
Now what that means is that the code that needs to be changed is to make sure it behaves like it used to prior to 4.0, otherwise apps would be limited to only running on 4.0, so most likely a developer would have to add a little bit of case logic to determine what OS it is running on. If it does not do that, it will only work for 4.0 and up.
This means that your app has to be willing to save at any second, because the OS may find it needed to kill it without user intervention.
In fact, if the app is linked against the 4.0 SDK and does not want to actually use the save states or any multitasking features it would get for free from the os the developer has to manually 'opt out'
Feel free to take a look at the documentation and see if you could have came up with a better implementation than Apple, because I think they did a pretty good job with very little compromise, and took most of the burden off of the developers.
*edit* Stupid me, I forgot to hit copy on the last quote.
See, the reason I would lean toward Hardest Working Character Poster is because he managed to take a complaint about an app no longer working and turn it into a several page nonsense debate about multitasking.
However, it's also possible to lean toward, uh, *special*.... well, for the very same reason. :lol
However, it's also possible to lean toward, uh, *special*.... well, for the very same reason. :lol
The_Inquisitor
Member
JayDub said:
Oh god dammit. :lol :lol
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
All of his arguments are about hypothetical situations. It's maddening. You can't win because he doesn't discuss reality.Vyer said:
He'll go on and on about "well if Apple did multitasking normally then every app would work right away," but that didn't happen and will never happen, so why even discuss it? It's insane, and he won't drop it.
And when everyone tries to inform him how it's impossible and that it has precedent in all operating systems, he just calls us all fanboys again.
My quick run down of what I like and don't like about the phone so far.
So far it's better than good, it's brilliant. And I'm hard to please! Not quite perfect though. The 3GS was a 6/10 phone for me at best. I'd give the iPhone 4 an 8 or maybe 9.
Pluses.
- Spectacular screen with immense detail.
- Amazing camera quality now with flash.
- Brilliant HD video recording.
- New sensor allows for remarkably clean images and great low light performance.
- Much improved battery. Over a days use even with extreme usage.
- New OS and multitasking
- Very fast in all operations
- Web browsing far better due to HD resolution and improved speed.
- Front camera finally for video conferencing and Facetime (which works great).
- Apps and marketplace better than any other.
- Remarkable build quality and design.
- Ultra slim form factor, easy in the pockets.
- Class leading MP3 audio quality.
Minuses.
- Signal loss when holding the bottom left corner of the phone.
- Speaker volume is too quiet.
- Default brightness is too low with auto light sensor on.
- Bluetooth transfer options still shite.
- Screen could be slightly bigger.
- No flash support.
- No custom EQ option on MP3 player.
Negatives are mainly nit picks on an otherwise near perfect phone.
So far it's better than good, it's brilliant. And I'm hard to please! Not quite perfect though. The 3GS was a 6/10 phone for me at best. I'd give the iPhone 4 an 8 or maybe 9.
Pluses.
- Spectacular screen with immense detail.
- Amazing camera quality now with flash.
- Brilliant HD video recording.
- New sensor allows for remarkably clean images and great low light performance.
- Much improved battery. Over a days use even with extreme usage.
- New OS and multitasking
- Very fast in all operations
- Web browsing far better due to HD resolution and improved speed.
- Front camera finally for video conferencing and Facetime (which works great).
- Apps and marketplace better than any other.
- Remarkable build quality and design.
- Ultra slim form factor, easy in the pockets.
- Class leading MP3 audio quality.
Minuses.
- Signal loss when holding the bottom left corner of the phone.
- Speaker volume is too quiet.
- Default brightness is too low with auto light sensor on.
- Bluetooth transfer options still shite.
- Screen could be slightly bigger.
- No flash support.
- No custom EQ option on MP3 player.
Negatives are mainly nit picks on an otherwise near perfect phone.
You make a lot of assumptions. Are you aware that "Now Playing" has been pulled from the app store in the past? Just because it's gone for now that doesn't mean it's never coming back. Last I checked the dev was still trying to find a solution that would allow him to keep the app free.Marty Chinn said:
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