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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - Season 4

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Golgo 13

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Shame about her experience at Columbia GS. Humanities are in a really loony place at the Ivies right now with all the recent ideological trends.

Go STEM and read the classics in your spare time.
A friend of mine just graduated with a Stem degree from a well know UC in California. He’s a very bright guy but also a first-generation immigrant from a third-world country.

He says that even the STEM fields have completely an irrevocably corrupted - he was taught white supremacy in a Computer Science class - furthermore he was elected to a student panel of programmers that was composed of nothing but minority women who is his words were “some of the worst students and not nearly the best programmers in the class” particularly because of their collective identities.

Universities are %100 done. These assholes won’t be indoctrinating my children, and unless there’s radical change in the next 5 years, we’re all in for a special dose of hell when these brainwashed political drones start running companies (which is already happening).
 
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Golgo 13

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As a side note, the Yeonmi Park podcast was amazing. Heartfelt and real, and gives you a perspective of what REAL oppression is. I love how she relates that in truly oppressive countries you aren’t even taught the word “oppression” 😱.

The Tromblay podcast about aggression was interesting but MAN that guy can be boring to listen to. Obviously he’s a very accomplished scientist but his cadence was almost unbearable. Still, tons of great information. JBP is on a roll lately, particularly the more recently filmed episodes where Dr. Peterson is returning to health.
 

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Noone talks seriously about North Korea because its a picture perfect illustration of what Marxism ultimately results in. Its a true discussion-ender on the subject, especially as a contrast to how the South has done.

To implement it politically you need autocracy, and autocracy breeds corruption. And corruption at the state level leads to mass suffering.

As Peterson has mentioned, one of the pivotal moments for him politically was stopping to analyse the typical counter-argument that "noone has implemented a true version of Marxism". Which may be nominally true, but the subtext as to what it says about the person making the statement is the real killer. its an extremely narcissistic assumption that they uniquely understand the problem in a way that everyone else historically has failed to, and shows a cavalier disregard for the often genocidal result of "getting it wrong".
Not a fan of this take. Nobody talks about North Korea because it's plainly obvious to everyone that having a state in absolute control of a petulant child is not a good outcome. It's good to realize things could have been worse, but our own societies have significant problems and fragilities that need adressing. Peterson often says inequality is a real problem, but he never suggests solutions, rather he just disparages other people's critiques as rooted in narcissism and resentment, which is cheap and unfalsifiable.

found this new feature on Rebel Wisdom:

 
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DragoonKain

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I've noticed that those who've had the most difficult lives, especially immigrants who came from countries with oppressive regimes, often have the best perspectives on things and life, and are people who love America the most.

Cubans for example are some of the most patriotic ra ra American people I've ever met.

Jordan is a genuinely caring guy, he's only ever tried to help people. It's a shame his name has been slandered by the disingenuous. Seeing how hurt he is that she had a bad experience in a North American institution when he was a professor at one. He genuinely cares and is concerned about what's happening, this has never been a show for him. Jordan, agree with his opinions or not, will always stand for what he believes in.
 
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Clear

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Not a fan of this take. Nobody talks about North Korea because it's plainly obvious to everyone that having a state in absolute control of a petulant child is not a good outcome. It's good to realize things could have been worse, but our own societies have significant problems and fragilities that need adressing. Peterson often says inequality is a real problem, but he never suggests solutions, rather he just disparages other people's critiques as rooted in narcissism and resentment, which is cheap and unfalsifiable.

I don't think its a cheap rebuttal at all.

Abstract it a bit: Imagine someone is in charge of an energy project, where the goal is infinite clean power output. A noble objective to be sure. But, when we introduce the possibility that the reactor or whatever becoming unstable would result in an irradiated, uninhabitable wasteland for the next hundred years it raises a while bunch of ethical questions and practice contingencies that need to be addressed as paramount concerns.

That's Marxist-Leninist-Maoist state power in a nutshell. Historically everytime its been tried its resulted in a "meltdown" and millions have suffered and died as a result.

The balance of empirical evidence must lead to the conclusion that its implementation is a severely dangerous political experiment.

Yet we have kids being indoctrinated/emboldened into thinking only of the utopian outcome, and giving scant regard to the potentially horrific consequences of its failure.
 

EviLore

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A friend of mine just graduated with a Stem degree from a well know UC in California. He’s a very bright guy but also a first-generation immigrant from a third-world country.

He says that even the STEM fields have completely an irrevocably corrupted - he was taught white supremacy in a Computer Science class - furthermore he was elected to a student panel of programmers that was composed of nothing but minority women who is his words were “some of the worst students and not nearly the best programmers in the class” particularly because of their collective identities.

Universities are %100 done. These assholes won’t be indoctrinating my children, and unless there’s radical change in the next 5 years, we’re all in for a special dose of hell when these brainwashed political drones start running companies (which is already happening).
Eh. Universities are far from done because someone you know ran into an activist professor bringing up politics in one of his courses. Even at college activism HQ, UC Berkeley, the CS program is top tier.
 

Golgo 13

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Eh. Universities are far from done because someone you know ran into an activist professor bringing up politics in one of his courses. Even at college activism HQ, UC Berkeley, the CS program is top tier.
Fair enough. It’s a fairly common notion that the STEM fields have been spared the infringement of politically correct indoctrination that pervades the humanities, but there’s growing evidence that this notion is becoming more of an exception on a case by case basis than a rule. Take for example the Bill Gates sponsored “Equitable Math” curriculum which claims that “right answers” in math classrooms is an example of “white privilege” - the same notion that lowers math grade standards for minorities (and entrance into engineering and Stem programs FYI).

Or the fact that research grants in most western universities now require an “Equity statement” as a pre- requisite for funding. In case you’re wondering what that is exactly, it’s a statement about how your UNRELATED SCIENTIFIC study will benefit collectivist group identities, which goes through “inclusion and equity” officers for approval, regardless of what your grant is for. That’s right.

I’m not discounting the value of a Computer Science education at a university, but to say STEM fields are safe from the spreading corruption doesn’t seem to check out.

As to my friend, most of his experiences with the Marxist culture of University life weren’t found directly in his tech classes but in the surrounding culture, which was suffocating and overwhelming. Sure, you can hide from the nonsense in a Automata class, but what kind of soul-crushing conformity did you submit to, to get to that point?
 
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QSD

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I don't think its a cheap rebuttal at all.

It's cheap because casting aspersions on the motivation of people is not much more than ad hominem in disguise. It's like saying anyone who champions capitalism is motivated by greed and abject selfishness. It's impossible to defend from and doesn't serve to illuminate the issue in any way.

Can't really adress the rest of your point without derailing too much into politics, but suffice to say that capitalism has it's problems too.
 

Golgo 13

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Just listened to an older Podcast of JBP where he talked to Dr. Oz for like 3 hours. It’s episode #57 for those wondering.

I feel like this is JBP at his very best. It’s just 3 hours of common sense, no nonsense observations about the difficulties of life and how we all ended up at this point. JPB is crisp, relaxed, and dropping nonstop truth bombs.

I’d say this is in my top 3 JBP podcasts/interviews ever, along with his absolute annihilation of Helen Lewis from British GQ. That one was very contentious in contrast but also very informative.
 
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I suspect most people that frequent this thread will find this James Lindsay podcast worth a listen.


He speaks of Hegel's dialectic, and how it drives the current 'woke project'. It's 4 hours, but I found it very worthwhile.
 
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QSD

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Since I've been pretty critical of JBP lately I thought I'd follow Golgo 13 Golgo 13 's idea and post a favorite podcast. This one came fairly early in Jordan's rise to stardom, he interviews Nina Paley, an animator that was at the time working on a series of animations of biblical stories, set to popular music. The animations are simple but artfully done, and the way she uses familiar songs and voices to underpin the stories really gives them another dimension. Although JBP and Nina probably disagree on a whole bunch of politics, the grace with which he conducts this interview and his genuine enthusiasm for her work really shine through. They also talk about a topic which you wouldn't expect necessarily out of JBP but that is near and dear to my heart : copyright law, and Nina's struggles with it as popular music forms an intergral part of her art.




Example of Nina's work:

"Death of the firstborn Egyptians":


Amazing video, Amazing music
 
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pel1300

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As Peterson has mentioned, one of the pivotal moments for him politically was stopping to analyse the typical counter-argument that "noone has implemented a true version of Marxism". Which may be nominally true, but the subtext as to what it says about the person making the statement is the real killer. its an extremely narcissistic assumption that they uniquely understand the problem in a way that everyone else historically has failed to, and shows a cavalier disregard for the often genocidal result of "getting it wrong".

The same people arguing for more covid lock downs and saying "They just didn't lock down the right way" while having complete blindness to the lives ruined and lost from them.
 

Clear

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It's cheap because casting aspersions on the motivation of people is not much more than ad hominem in disguise. It's like saying anyone who champions capitalism is motivated by greed and abject selfishness. It's impossible to defend from and doesn't serve to illuminate the issue in any way.

Can't really adress the rest of your point without derailing too much into politics, but suffice to say that capitalism has it's problems too.

Saying a thing that has historically "failed" is only because it was imperfectly implemented, is a shallow excuse for championing reattempting it. Its not insightful or compelling in and of itself.

What it is, is a conclusion that should be only be reached after thorough critique and analysis. And even then should be the start of a conversation about how the approach can be salvaged.

The problem is the omission of the risk/benefit assessment, replaced by a bold statement of commitment to the premise. Its more emotional than rational in short.
 
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What I learned from the James Lindsay podcast I linked above (as far as I understand it), is that the Hegelian dialectic assumes there exists 'the seed' of a utopia underneath whatever the current situation is. Therefore it strives to rid itself of all the non-utopian stuff. As long as there is no utopia, there must be more ridding. When there still are people alive people complaining, this is evidence utopia has not yet been reached. So this is where the corpses come from, those folks are standing in the way of the goal: a god that becomes.
 

QSD

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Saying a thing that has historically "failed" is only because it was imperfectly implemented, is a shallow excuse for championing reattempting it. Its not insightful or compelling in and of itself.

What it is, is a conclusion that should be only be reached after thorough critique and analysis. And even then should be the start of a conversation about how the approach can be salvaged.

The problem is the omission of the risk/benefit assessment, replaced by a bold statement of commitment to the premise. Its more emotional than rational in short.
You know there's a thread in off topic about restaurants not being able to find employees in the current climate. Turns out flipping burgers in a chain restaurant for next to no pay is a mind-numbing soul-crushing non starter for most people. It's what Marx would call "alienated labor". Just because the Soviet Union fell apart doesn't mean that every part of Marxist theory is useless and/or a one way ticket to genocide.

In the early days of the industrial revolution (= the start of modern capitalism) child labor among the poor was fairly commonplace. I'd say that's a pretty bad outcome. But instead of discarding the whole system, and demonizing everyone who talked about it, they fixed it. Fancy that.
 
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Compared to the ideal, child labor is pretty shit.
Compared to whatever is opposite the ideal, child labor is an improvement.

It touches on my disdain for these utopian thinkers, they consider only the perfect state of being, and everything that is not that, needs to go. No consideration for the fact that all this is somehow built out of a state of living in a cave eating grubs. Which is where we will return, if we implement their ideas.
 

QSD

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Compared to the ideal, child labor is pretty shit.
Compared to whatever is opposite the ideal, child labor is an improvement.

It touches on my disdain for these utopian thinkers, they consider only the perfect state of being, and everything that is not that, needs to go. No consideration for the fact that all this is somehow built out of a state of living in a cave eating grubs. Which is where we will return, if we implement their ideas.

Usually you at least give me respectable arguments but this disappoints me, you can just turn that shit around

Compared to the ideal, Marxism is shit
Compared to whatever is opposite to the ideal (e.g. living in a cave eating grubs), Marxism is an improvement

Annoying capitalist dudes can never let go of their perfectionism!

But to shift this away from politics: Whenever JBP encourages people to live up to "who they could be if they really got their lives together" isn't that also a version of utopianism, a striving for the perfect state of being?
 

Clear

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What I learned from the James Lindsay podcast I linked above (as far as I understand it), is that the Hegelian dialectic assumes there exists 'the seed' of a utopia underneath whatever the current situation is. Therefore it strives to rid itself of all the non-utopian stuff. As long as there is no utopia, there must be more ridding. When there still are people alive people complaining, this is evidence utopia has not yet been reached. So this is where the corpses come from, those folks are standing in the way of the goal: a god that becomes.

That's an interesting point.

A thing that's long occupied me is trying to understand the psychology of "woke" zealotry. I mean it seems overtly religious in character, and yet there's a void where the "great reward" stands in conventional organized religion. The woke aren't striving for enlightenment, or access to the kingdom of heaven, it seems very much rooted in the here and now.

Being honest, my suspicion is its almost entirely rooted in malevolence. Its a tool for gaining social credit and advantage through selective disempowerment and ostracization of competitors.

A thing that while cloaked in the language of altruism is in fact entirely self-serving.
 
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Watchin Q&A 3 now, glad to see he's getting a bit more aggressively vocal about merit.

Edit.
Watching the ep with the North Korean lady. She escapes NK and ends up in indoctrination school in America: "This is not why I escaped.." Sheesh America, get it together please.
 
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On this episode of the Jordan Peterson Podcast, Jordan is joined by Rex Murphy. Rex is a Canadian commentator and author who deals primarily with Canadian political and social matters. He is best known for working on and for CBC Here and Now, CBC Radio 1’s Cross Country Checkup, writing for The Globe and Mail and writing for The National Post. He is a well-recognised and loved figure. Rex Murphy and I sit down to discuss a variety of topics including his impressive career, Canadian politics, western culture, the woke culture wars, changes in universities, the crumbling study of the humanities, New Finland, Toronto, and more. Find more Rex Murphy by searching his name for articles and in his book.


On Season 4, Episode 28 of the Jordan Peterson Podcast, Jordan is joined by Dr. Rima Azar. Dr. Rima Azar is an Associate Professor of health psychology at Mount Allison University, co-founder and co-director of NaviCare/SoinNavi, and a former holder of a CIHR New Investigator salary award in Developmental Psychoneuroimmunology. Dr. Rima Azar and Jordan sat down to discuss the importance of free speech and what happened with the recent controversy surrounding her blog, as well as what led to her suspension at Mount Allison University in Sackville, New Brunswick.
 
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