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[Lasthope106]

I wasn't the biggest fan of TLOU, but this DLC is far, far superior to the full game. It improves on every way. Left Behind has none of the shortcomings that I found on the full game, which included the gameplay. The AI on Left Behind in particular is better since you can get the infected and hunters to attack each other.

About the kiss, I'm really conflicted. I'm glad that ND had the guts to have an expression of love among two teenage girls, but at the same time I can't help to think they just wanted to have Ellie be everything that other video game heroines aren't.

 

[Flek]

just finished it and WOW aim blown away. I can´t even beginn to tell you guys how mouch i love this game and how mouch i already miss playing it.

I rarely feel sad when finishing a game but when i do i really really feel bad … 

going to pickup a nice tlou poster now

 

[dragonlife]

Reading some of these posts reminds me of my early teenage years and hearing, "Are you sure?" "Maybe it's just a phase," "You're too young to make that decision," (clearly they meant coming out, amirite guys) and "You're just confused." Sexuality is so damn fluid that discussing it always feels like a chore where someone will always feel offended.

As for my take... the feelings are always there--maybe not the knowledge of what you are--but you can tell you're not like everyone else even if you've never been exposed to anything gay-related. Yes, even as a child. 13, 14--or whatever age Ellie and Riley are--it's old enough for the feelings to be real. And when I say "feelings," I don't mean love, but those that let you know your preference, if any. For people to watch the build-up to the kiss scene and then think it's just friends being friends...

This is why LGBT inclusion in games feels like such a double-edged sword to me sometimes. If it's not stated outright for the masses in the material, you eventually have a "are they or aren't they?" war on your hands. A kiss isn't enough; clearly they're just really close friends, or they don't know what they're doing or feeling, which causes people to parrot what every LGBT individual has heard in their life at one time or another--and that's that, somehow, our issues can be swept under the rug by third parties because they know better than us. Ironically, if they were to state it outright in some way (in the material. e.g., "I'm gay, y'all"), then you'd have people claiming it's forced or something because someone's gayness shouldn't be a noteworthy trait. I guarantee it.

It's like the creative team can't have their cake and eat it, too, no matter how they approach it. The same could be said of the represented group.

Anyway, it's ultimately a work of fiction. Until there's irrefutable proof by the devs about Ellie and Riley, I suppose we'll have to keep hearing all sides of something that shouldn't be a debate. Kanji Tatsumi, anyone?

--

I thought the kiss was cute. The facial animation and motion capture on this DLC was great. The subtle features in Ellie's smile and eyes after she pulls back and kind of awkwardly fumbles... really nice touches. ND does some good work.

 

[Hubb]

Snip.

I'm sorry your post comes off as more pompous than the people you are complaining about. I'm not sure why you are against people talking about the biggest plot point in the whole DLC (since we knew the end game for the 2 big plot points). While yes, someone at the age of 13 or 14 may know their feelings, there are plenty that don't. How is this any different than discussing other relationships in fiction?

And personally I don't care if she is or isn't. It is just an interesting point to talk about within the DLC, the relationship between Riley and Ellie is this DLC. If we don't talk about their relationship, that doesn't leave a whole lot story wise to talk about.

If that bothers you, I'm sorry. If that makes me a bigot for some reason, well I'm sorry.

 

[dragonlife]

I'm sorry your post comes off as more pompous than the people you are complaining about. I'm not sure why you are against people talking about the biggest plot point in the whole DLC (since we knew the end game for the 2 big plot points). While yes, someone at the age of 13 or 14 may know their feelings, there are plenty that don't. How is this any different than discussing other relationships in fiction?

And personally I don't care if she is or isn't. It is just an interesting point to talk about within the DLC, the relationship between Riley and Ellie is this DLC. If we don't talk about their relationship, that doesn't leave a whole lot story wise to talk about.

If that bothers you, I'm sorry. If that makes me a bigot for some reason, well I'm sorry.

I'm not trying to stifle discussion or trying to come off as pompous, though, because their relationship is a huge part of the DLC, you're right. I was more making an observation of what it's like to be on the gay spectrum of things and correlating it to the DLC and posts I saw, and applying that to what I feel is the difficult part of being inclusive. Would you mind sharing where I came off as pompous? Maybe I can clarify.

I was really going for neutral tone, but I guess that didn't seem to pan out for me based on your reply. Too loquacious, maybe?

 

[Wensih]

I thought this song goes well with the DLC, so I wanted to post it here:

First Cut is the Deepest

 

[dragonlife]

So can someone sum up the comic for me? Or is there a place with a cohesive summary of it?

 

[Hubb]

I was really going for neutral tone, but I guess that didn't seem to pan out for me based on your reply. Too loquacious, maybe?

Maybe it was the way I read it, or I misunderstood where you were going with your post, but the post came off (to me) as very self-important. Almost I'm right and you are wrong territory.

Either way, I really like TLoU and I'm up for talking about almost any part of it. I am still a little hung up on the amount of time Ellie spent in military school and what she actually learned when she was there. She at least jokes with Riley that she is training to hunt/kill Fireflies, but it doesn't seem like she received any gun training while she was there.

Medical training and I am guessing archery is probably more likely. She knew how to shoot, and you can reuse practice arrows. I don't know where she would have learned to stitch someone up if not from the school.

So can someone sum up the comic for me? Or is there a place with a cohesive summary of it?

Spoiler

All things considered it is very short with little information. We see Ellie go to the school and from day 1 runs in to problems with other kids. Riley saves her from some bullies, but Ellie basically does the shrug off I don't need your help type of thing. Ellie gets in trouble for the fight with the bullies and is forced to clean Military cars and it seems to be the first time she realizes they kill fireflies (she sees pieces of fingers on the car)

One night she hears Riley sneaking out and she follows her. This is where she meets Winston and rides a horse for the first time. They see some Fireflies being caught by soldiers and they help them escape by throwing a smoke grenade. They then have to run from the soldiers and get caught by some infected. Running away from them they run into Marlene and the fireflies from earlier. Riley asks Marlene to join the fireflies and Marlene is really hard on her (DLC handles the rest).

The biggest part of the end of the comics (to me) is when they are coming back from this and sneaking back into the school Ellie turns to Riley and tells her they should just run away. And Riley blows it off saying something along the lines of we'd just die some other way. They go separate ways back to the dorms and don't seem to leave in the highest of spirits. I missed somethings here and there but I think that covers most of it. All of this is from memory so some stuff could be out of order.

Probably better than the shit I wrote.

http://thelastofus.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_of_Us:_American_Dreams:_Issue_1
http://thelastofus.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_of_Us:_American_Dreams:_Issue_2
http://thelastofus.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_of_Us:_American_Dreams:_Issue_3
http://thelastofus.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_of_Us:_American_Dreams:_Issue_4

 

[Tygamr]

Just finished this and thought it was really good. Probably took me around 3(ish) hours to beat it. It's kind of expensive at $15, but I honestly think it's worth it. Very well done for a DLC.

The kiss between Ellie and Riley honestly didn't surprise me- there was definitely chemistry between them before that moment. I wouldn't say it means she's lesbian though, but it was definitely more than a 'we're close friends' kiss. She's probably bi. One of my favorite moments in the DLC.

I was surprised by the mashup of past and present (between the fall and winter sections). The ending was abrupt, but I thought it was done well. It would've been better if it ended more abruptly, after Riley said 'we could just wait it out...be all poetic and lose our minds together'. I really enjoyed the sections where there were infected and hunters at the same time. Wasn't really any of those in the main game at all.

 

[eternaLightness]

Just finished it and enjoyed it a lot. I kept wondering how the game would play before it came out. I'm glad they went the route they did though. Having the Ellie and Riley sections just them being normal teenagers was great. It was charming, innocent and funny up until the very end. I feel like ND are really good at having moments in games where there are no action or combat be really engaging. It was very well done. I really do wish it wasn't so short. I would have loved to keep exploring with the two characters more.

 

[ButchCat]

I was okay with the way the two showed chemistry but I was not okay with Ellie's kiss especially for a 13 year old girl, it just felt out of place. I would've preferred that they just had locked eyes in the photo-booth (subtle yet more powerful). I did like how Ellie commented on the guy's picture moments before the former did happen.

 

[Tapejara]

Reading some of these posts reminds me of my early teenage years and hearing, "Are you sure?" "Maybe it's just a phase," "You're too young to make that decision," (clearly they meant coming out, amirite guys) and "You're just confused." Sexuality is so damn fluid that discussing it always feels like a chore where someone will always feel offended.

As for my take... the feelings are always there--maybe not the knowledge of what you are--but you can tell you're not like everyone else even if you've never been exposed to anything gay-related. Yes, even as a child. 13, 14--or whatever age Ellie and Riley are--it's old enough for the feelings to be real. And when I say "feelings," I don't mean love, but those that let you know your preference, if any. For people to watch the build-up to the kiss scene and then think it's just friends being friends...

This is why LGBT inclusion in games feels like such a double-edged sword to me sometimes. If it's not stated outright for the masses in the material, you eventually have a "are they or aren't they?" war on your hands. A kiss isn't enough; clearly they're just really close friends, or they don't know what they're doing or feeling, which causes people to parrot what every LGBT individual has heard in their life at one time or another--and that's that, somehow, our issues can be swept under the rug by third parties because they know better than us. Ironically, if they were to state it outright in some way (in the material. e.g., "I'm gay, y'all"), then you'd have people claiming it's forced or something because someone's gayness shouldn't be a noteworthy trait. I guarantee it.

It's like the creative team can't have their cake and eat it, too, no matter how they approach it. The same could be said of the represented group.

Anyway, it's ultimately a work of fiction. Until there's irrefutable proof by the devs about Ellie and Riley, I suppose we'll have to keep hearing all sides of something that shouldn't be a debate. Kanji Tatsumi, anyone?

--

I thought the kiss was cute. The facial animation and motion capture on this DLC was great. The subtle features in Ellie's smile and eyes after she pulls back and kind of awkwardly fumbles... really nice touches. ND does some good work.

Great post and thanks for the insight!

Personally, I like the way ND handled their relationship (for context I am straight). Like Bill's character, it's never explicitly stated, but there is strong evidence for it. Hell, I didn't even know people thought Bill was gay until reading it here, I just thought he had a really close male friend. It doesn't feel forced, but of course the downside is that, like you said, people start to question the legitimacy of a character's sexuality.

I do think that Ellie and Riley are, well I guess for simplicity's sake we'll just say lesbian. And I do think the kiss shows that off, mostly because of the context of the scene in which it takes place and the events leading up to it. I don't really think there's much to debate about whether they have feelings for each other, as Naughty Dog clearly presented it as such.

 

[JohnyRL]

Great, as expected.
I can't help but feel a little bit different about Ellie now after her little romance section though. It isn't homophobia. I don't think less or more of her. I just look at her somewhat differently than I did in the first game. She feels more grown and maybe a bit more real.
I guess that was the point.

 

[NearRivers]

I was more excited for this than I was for Christmas and despite my hype the DLC still managed to exceed my expectations. I'd go as far to say that I think it was a better game and experience than The Last of Us, at least in my opinion.
Ellie is filled with charisma throughout and is always entertaining to watch and play as, more so than Joel. All the optional dialog with Riley really helps sell the authenticity of their friendship and is both funny and sweet to watch. And the less emphasis on firepower and breakable shivs made a stealth playthrough my preffered method - level design and enemy placement is perfect for it. If TLOU was dark and heavy, Left Behind is dark, and sweet, and at 3 hours and 9 minutes on Survivor difficulty it's just the right length. Worth every penny, brilliant expansion.

My only criticisms is that even after a comic and DLC we still didn't find out exactly how Riley died and how Ellie handled it in the moment; which is easily one of the most interesting and important developments in Ellie's character, and a potentially powerful moment for the player.
My second complaint is the second half of the final encounter. If I manage to quietly kill everyone I don't want to start opening the door and have a fresh wave of enemies at my back.
And the fact that the collectibles are very easy to find compared to the main game is a bit of a shame as I like searching for them.
Besides that, Left Behind managed to thoroughly impress me.

 

[SolidChamp]

Just finished it. Credits rolling as i type. What a beautiful piece of DLC. Ellie is god damn adorable, but we all know that.

The fortune telling skull was amazing, haha

Facebook sharing got a laugh out of me. I saw the kiss as just a "hey, you're a great friend" kiss though, not as a "OH MY GOD I'M IN LOVE WITH YOU" kiss.

I think it's a little unfortunate that some people are quick to label Ellie with "OMG SHEZ LEZBIAN!"

It's reassuring to know that some people are interpreting it as just two friends who share a deep bond with each other, and a kiss could mean anything within that context.

Ellie kissed her in the moment, not because she identifies as "straight" or "homosexual", but because she feels like she has someone special that she could share that with.

Beyond that, there's not really much else to read into it. If Riley had lived, would they have gone on to have a long and prosperous, romantic relationship together? Maybe. Who knows. But it's like so many people have said already...it was a really sweet and tender moment that helped to define innocence in a world that just no longer is.

 

[JohnyRL]

I think it's a little unfortunate that some people are quick to label Ellie with "OMG SHEZ LEZBIAN!"

It's reassuring to know that some people are interpreting it as just two friends who share a deep bond with each other, and a kiss could mean anything within that context.

Ellie kissed her in the moment, not because she identifies as "straight" or "homosexual", but because she feels like she has someone special that she could share that with.

Beyond that, there's not really much else to read into it. If Riley had lived, would they have gone on to have a long and prosperous, romantic relationship together? Maybe. Who knows. But it's like so many people have said already...it was a really sweet and tender moment that helped to define innocence in a world that just no longer is.

This is a good post.

 

[NearRivers]

Very well said. A single kiss isn't enough to to label anyone as anything, they don't have to neatly fit into an identifying tag. My personal impression is that the kiss was a combination of deep and intimate friendship, a harsh world pushing two people closer together, and the heartache of potentially losing someone you care about. At 14 years old these characters might not be able to articulate that in a sentence, so actions speak louder than words.
It doesn't necessarily have to be "I (romantically) love you", although the games release date definitely adds some weight to the theory, it simply could have been a "I don't want to lose you". Anyway, I'm just pleased to see more representation in games.

 

[Ishan]

Actually their 3 months was of school. It was military school, and they weren't "suppose" to leave the school grounds. They just skipped curfew a few times or maybe more.

Oh and I stopped reading Harry Potter after the 2nd book so...

3rd book is the bomb

 

[SolidChamp]

This is a good post.

Much appreciated.

This DLC went a long, long way to enriching the story for me; a story which I had already felt was masterful in it's execution.

It really does add a great deal to the overall game, and it's not something that should be taken on it's own at all. The really big surprise for me came from the way they tied it into the main story, filling in the gap between fall and winter with Joel's near-fatal injury. Absolutely brilliant decision on the part of ND.

But this story wasn't about some big reveal of Ellie's "sexuality", and I almost feel sorry for people who read it that way. They're robbing themselves of the real subtext of this piece of DLC, and that has to do with Ellie's strong will and the way she had to cope with her own loss, and how she's an infinitely stronger person than Joel in numerous ways. That kiss she shared with someone who is very close and dear to her is simply one of the few things she has left to hold on to. A subtle glimpse of the innocence she had, and the person she could have been if she had that friend to care for for the rest of her life.

The other way to look at it is how this kind of connects to what Bill was saying about how "having someone you care about very much in this world is only good for one thing; getting you killed." As soon as we're treated to the deeper expressions of affection between the two characters, they're immediately surrounded by infected. Ellie is there because of Riley, because she cares deeply for her and wants to figure out what went wrong and whether or not there are greater things in store for the both of them as best friends. In the end, they both should have died, but because of some quirk of fate Ellie is spared. She, however, accepts her fate and accepts her loss, something the male characters like Joel and Bill seem to have a really difficult time struggling with.

Also, the way Riley utters those lines about "losing their minds together" is handled so fucking well in the DLC. Wow. I was sidestepping my 3rd play through in the main game on Hard difficulty to play this, and then went back and finished up and when Ellie quotes Riley to Joel...it just has so much more weight and power.

In some ways I wish they could release a "director's cut" of this game, remastered for the PS4, with this DLC wedged right into that portion of the main game as an aside. I understand that it risks taking some of the focus away from The Last of Us, but it would still work, I think.

 

[hokagespit]

Much appreciated.

This DLC went a long, long way to enriching the story for me; a story which I had already felt was masterful in it's execution.

It really does add a great deal to the overall game, and it's not something that should be taken on it's own at all. The really big surprise for me came from the way they tied it into the main story, filling in the gap between fall and winter with Joel's near-fatal injury. Absolutely brilliant decision on the part of ND.

But this story wasn't about some big reveal of Ellie's "sexuality", and I almost feel sorry for people who read it that way. They're robbing themselves of the real subtext of this piece of DLC, and that has to do with Ellie's strong will and the way she had to cope with her own loss, and how she's an infinitely stronger person than Joel in numerous ways. That kiss she shared with someone who is very close and dear to her is simply one of the few things she has left to hold on to. A subtle glimpse of the innocence she had, and the person she could have been if she had that friend to care for for the rest of her life.

The other way to look at it is how this kind of connects to what Bill was saying about how "having someone you care about very much in this world is only good for one thing; getting you killed." As soon as we're treated to the deeper expressions of affection between the two characters, they're immediately surrounded by infected. Ellie is there because of Riley, because she cares deeply for her and wants to figure out what went wrong and whether or not there are greater things in store for the both of them as best friends. In the end, they both should have died, but because of some quirk of fate Ellie is spared. She, however, accepts her fate and accepts her loss, something the male characters like Joel and Bill seem to have a really difficult time struggling with.

Also, the way Riley utters those lines about "losing their minds together" is handled so fucking well in the DLC. Wow. I was sidestepping my 3rd play through in the main game on Hard difficulty to play this, and then went back and finished up and when Ellie quotes Riley to Joel...it just has so much more weight and power.

In some ways I wish they could release a "director's cut" of this game, remastered for the PS4, with this DLC wedged right into that portion of the main game as an aside. I understand that it risks taking some of the focus away from The Last of Us, but it would still work, I think.

well put. and this needs to happen please ND

 

[JohnyRL]

Pls Based Naughty Gods.
Ps4 port.
Please.

All the stars would align with bliss.

 

[Endo Punk]

That scene at the ranch where Joel says to Ellie "You have no idea what loss is", yeah, I think she kinda does Joel. lol.

All this err hullabaloo over the kiss has me taken back than the kiss it self. She showed her appreciation with a harmless kiss with her friend. Move on guys.

Funny thing is I started of hating Ellie when I first played the game, her upbeat attitude and swearing was getting tiresome, then winter changed everything and now with Left Behind I have to say Ellie is probably my favorite female character I have ever played with, outside of fighting games of course.

I'd love a new IP with just a female protagonist from ND *cough* Savage Starlight *cough* lol.

 

[HeelPower]

I am surprised not many people aren't disappointed by the plot "twist" in the DLC.

Its pretty obvious that this is something that was written into the character after the fact.

By the end of the main game Ellie and Joel could share everything about themselves.Ellie clearly said she was a friend and not a lover.

The kiss was just added for shock value and cheapened Ellie as a character.

This was supposed to be a relationship when Ellie was a truly naive and relatively sheltered character.

Platonic relationships are rarely ever considered worthy of attention in western media.

I was just so disappointed at how they found it necessary to turn it into something that it wasn't supposed to be.

That's exactly why I didn't more to do with TLoU characters.

I was looking for a truly profound friendship and not a romance of any kind.

I bet you TLoU2 will be about people of colour being enslaved as history repeats itself.

If they really had the guts to establish Ellie as LGBT character they should and could have done so in the main game.

They simply abused the success of TLoU to add this forced trope into the story.

EDIT : Upon more inspection.Its actually not as bad as I make it out to be here...Never mind me.

 

[JohnyRL]

I am surprised not many people aren't disappointed by the plot "twist" in the DLC.

Its pretty obvious that this is something that was written into the character after the fact.

By the end of the main game Ellie and Joel could share everything about themselves.Ellie clearly said she was a friend and not a lover.

The kiss was just added for shock value and cheapened Ellie as a character.

This was supposed to be a relationship when Ellie was a truly naive and relatively sheltered character.

Platonic relationships are rarely ever considered worthy of attention in western media.

I was just so disappointed at how they found it necessary to turn it into something that it wasn't supposed to be.

That's exactly why I didn't more to do with TLoU characters.

I was looking for a truly profound friendship and not a romance of any kind.

I bet you TLoU2 will be about people of colour being enslaved as history repeats itself.

If they really has the guts to establish Ellie as LGBT character they should and could have done so in the main game.

"I wasn't alone. My lesby-lover Riley was with me and she got bit too."

Come on, now. They're kids. Riley was and continued to be her best friend even after the kiss. They didn't get together and call themselves an item or do anything related to our societal view of relationships. She could still identify riley as her friend.
The kiss was meaningful, and was just an expression of her caring. It somehow being shocking to you doesn't mean it was intended to have shock value. Most people weren't shocked.
The line between 'best friend' and 'girlfriend' in their world is blurry and perhaps non-existant. What matters was they cared deeply about each other.

That enslavement nonsense is laughably hyperbolic.

 

[HeelPower]

"I wasn't alone. My lesby-lover Riley was with me and she got bit too."

Come on, now. They're kids. Riley was and continued to be her best friend even after the kiss. They didn't get together and call themselves an item or do anything related to our societal view of relationships. The kiss was meaningful, and was just an expression of her caring. It somehow shocking you doesn't mean it was intended to be shock value. Most people weren't shocked.
The line between 'best friend' and 'girlfriend' in their world is blurry and perhaps non-existant. What matters was they cared deeply about each other.

That enslavement nonsense is laughably hyperbolic.

Bill said it was his partner who died there and it was established that he was gay.

They could done the same thing with Ellie in the ending of TLoU.Her final confession at the end could have been worded differently to hint at the sort of relationship that was clearly intimate in this DLC.

Druckmann is good at dialogue(his best craft really) he could have hinted at Ellie's identity on many occasions in the main game but it wasn't there.I amnot asking for a coming out speech in TLoU ending but in such a profound moment she had to have said more than that.

Yeah the enslavement nonsense is stupid but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually happened so TLoU can cover it.

Just being honest here. I wasn't looking forward to an Ellie Romance.

 

[JohnyRL]

Frank said it was his partner who died there and it was established that he was gay.

They could done the same thing with Ellie in the ending of TLoU.Her final confession at the end could have been worded differently to hint at the sort of relationship that was clearly intimate in this DLC.

Druckman is good at dialogue(his best craft really) he could have hinted at Ellie's identity on many occasions in the main game but it wasn't there.I amnot asking for a coming out speech in TLoU ending but in such a profound moment she had to have said more than that.

Yeah the enslavement nonsense is stupid but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually happened so TLoU can cover it.

Except Ellie's sexuality would have nothing to do with the core narrative of the last of us. It'd be an unnecessary revelation as it doesn't actually relate to the plot. If it was mentioned, it wouldn't actually change anything. Unless Joel wanted to get it down or some 34 shit, there's no reason Ellie would stop Joel to say "You should know I'm into vag" as part of her final speech.

Her love for Riley was center focus here. I'd like to think her sexuality is only a necessary reveal if it actually relates to something (i.e. Riley) and affects the plot.

Bill is a full grown man. Bill was gay, yes. The idea that Bill had gay porn that he likely shared with his boyfriend has little weight when discussing a 14 year old girl kissing her best friend on the lips. There are no persistent narrative rules of the homosexual in the universe as you would imply.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Loved it. I thought it started off a bit slow but the touching story and infected + looters gameplay towards the end easily made up for it. TLOU2 on PS4 can't come soon enough.

I'm sure I'm not the the first one that has made this observation, but I couldn't help but find it amusing that the same day Ellie is revealed to be gay just happened to be the same day Ellen Page came out to the public.

 

[ButchCat]

This is the internet and unfortunately the lesbo fan art will be be abundant in the following months.

 

[JohnyRL]

This is the internet and unfortunately the lesbo fan art will be be abundant in the following months.

There's a guy who says his first bits will be out by tomorrow morning.

I may or may not pm deets.

(not that I actually follow this stuff).

 

[Raoh]

Bravo Naughty Dog... Bravo....

 

[GQman2121]

Just finished. I wasn't expecting The Fall fill in from the main game, so that was a very pleasant surprise. The idea that Ellie would reflect on the last time she was in a mall was a brilliant crossover given that she's now saving a new friend in a similar situation.

Thoroughly enjoyed it as I did the main game. I unlocked all but one of the trophies too by doing survivor right from the jump.

 

[HeelPower]

Except Ellie's sexuality would have nothing to do with the core narrative of the last of us. It'd be an unnecessary revelation as it doesn't actually relate to the plot. If it was mentioned, it wouldn't actually change anything. Unless Joel wanted to get it down or some 34 shit, there's no reason Ellie would stop Joel to say "You should know I'm into vag" as part of her final speech.

Her love for Riley was center focus here. I'd like to think her sexuality is only a necessary reveal if it actually relates to something (i.e. Riley) and affects the plot.

Bill is a full grown man. Bill was gay, yes. The idea that Bill had gay porn that he likely shared with his boyfriend has little weight when discussing a 14 year old girl kissing her best friend on the lips. There are no persistent narrative rules of the homosexual in the universe as you would imply.

yeah I guess you are right.

It could have been too awkward in the ending and probably misplaced.

Now that I think about its possible for girls passionate friendship to develop into something deeper in the situation they are in.

But I still feel the main game could have done soemthing to express what type of relationship Ellie had(Friend vs Love)

 

[Jachaos]

I was okay with the way the two showed chemistry but I was not okay with Ellie's kiss especially for a 13 year old girl, it just felt out of place. I would've preferred that they just had locked eyes in the photo-booth (subtle yet more powerful). I did like how Ellie commented on the guy's picture moments before the former did happen.

I don't think any conceptions that apply to our society are even present for her. He didn't look at all like she was used to seeing him and she was surprised at how he looked when he was younger. She thought he looked good, as many girls that also love girls can think of guys.

Later on, she also felt deep inside she loved Riley and did what she did. It's pretty much the only person she knew well then and she didn't want her to go. Riley responded to her plea and showed she was willing to abandon the Fireflies to be with her. Ellie was overwhelmed and kissed her because she loves her. Of course it isn't going to be something obvious and spelled out to people, Naughty Dog loves bringing light to things and letting people form an opinion. I don't think it's out of place for a 13 year old girl to kiss and love another 14 year old girl, it isn't an anomaly. It might be taboo to some in some societies/circles but most girls I know have done exactly that at that age, some for experimenting and other that have ended up actually being bi/lesbians and loving girls. But teens explore to find themselves, it's completely normal. It happens often in our society and I don't see why it wouldn't in the society the two live in either. It's heartfelt love after the act Riley did.

I don't think there's enough mention of how it is a reaction to what Riley did.

Ellie just lived a rollercoaster of emotions. She had tons of fun with someone she loved, then she learns that person is not going to be there anymore and is extremely saddened and frustrated by it. Then Riley basically renounces to what she worked so hard for and what she wanted for her whole life : being a Firefly. She does that in response to Ellie. It went up and down and up (and later on down) for her (both of them actually) and how Ellie acted was perfect in my opinion. Strong yet not forced.

I absolutely love Left Behind.

 

[JohnyRL]

yeah I guess you are right.

It could have been too awkward in the ending and probably misplaced.

Now that I think about its possible for girls passionate friendship to develop into something deeper in the situation they are in.

But I still feel the main game could have done soemthing to express what type of relationship Ellie had(Friend vs Love)

Fair enough.
Cheers.

 

[Flandy]

There's a guy who says his first bits will be out by tomorrow morning.

I may or may not pm deets.

(not that I actually follow this stuff).

This post made laugh :lol

 

[Kaswa101]

I still believe that Ellie is bisexual. She's still young and discovering herself, so I don't think any of her initial feelings are guaranteed to last. Also, she and Riley were close friends for a long time, so it makes sense for them to have feelings for one another, especially given the setting and their young ages.

By the end of the main game, I don't think Ellie even cares about romance tbh, but I think there's a greater chance of her being "straight" than gay, even though it really doesn't matter. Point is, I don't think she'll ever risk having a relationship again to avoid the pain she went through with Riley.

As for the main story, I thought it was well-done how Ellie remembers her experience with Riley in the mall while exploring the mall in present-day and trying to save Joel. Ending was abrupt, but brilliant, and the whole past story was exceptionally fun and interesting. I do think of Ellie differently than I did before, but not in a more positive or negative way - just more like a human.

 

[krimsoncharge]

taking.

 

[inno4895]

OMG!! ellie.. lesbian NO!!

 

[Dereck]

How old is Riley?

 

[Wotanik]

How old is Riley?

16yo.

 

[rafaelr]

took me ~3.5hrs on survivor, loved every minute of it.
all the ellie/riley stuff was a really nice change of pace and some of these scenes/dialogues will really stick with me again.

i also really enjoyed getting back into some really intense encounters, the one with the stalkers (while only having 3 bullets and a couple of bricks around) was really tough.

curious what they´re gonna do with the last mp drop.

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

OMG!! ellie.. lesbian NO!!

It's okay, you can still wank to Lighning.

 

[ron_bato]

taking.

I called dibs on page 5.

^ Nope, not in avatar format, but I got dibs on angel.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Nvm, sorry

 

[Matt2thefuture]

Was good, kiss was not forced or fake or a "plot twist". It felt organic and realistic to me. Ellie is stuck in a post apocalyptic world, societies old b.s rules, bigots and normal growing up have gone out the window. No one is worrying wheater someone is gay or not, what color they are or religion, in this world it just matters if your bitten or not. The one person she has grown a deep relationship in her life so far is Riley. They have a connection and it's deep enough to become love. Anyone that is against that is a sad human-being.

Now for my 2nd post less serious part of my post which I'm sure has been stated in this thread before...how crazy is it that Ellen Page comes out the same time her younger virtual self does in the dlc. How did naughty dog know

 

[Stratostar]

now that we know Joe and Ellie will always be father and daughter relationship and nothing more.

what the fuck am I reading

 

[Ding-Ding]

But I still feel the main game could have done soemthing to express what type of relationship Ellie had(Friend vs Love)

Ellie's sexuality is not really something that has a bearing on the main game. For me its more to do with loss.

Joel lost Sarah and is was reluctant to talk about it with Ellie. Ellie is the same with regards to losing Riley.

What surprised me most was coming to a realisation that Joel & Ellie are not all that different from each other. Both are struggling with survivors guilt and that guilt/loss of Sarah and Riley drive both characters to the extremes to save one another.

 

[JohnyRL]

what the fuck am I reading

Haha.
Oh man.

Ellie's sexuality is not really something that has a bearing on the main game. For me its more to do with loss.

Joel lost Sarah and is was reluctant to talk about it with Ellie. Ellie is the same with regards to losing Riley.

What surprised me most was coming to a realisation that Joel & Ellie are not all that different from each other. Both are struggling with survivors guilt and that guilt/loss of Sarah and Riley drive both characters to the extremes to save one another.

Pretty much.

 

[SolidChamp]

what the fuck am I reading

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

Just to be clear, it wasn't the same mall, was it? Ellie and Riley were in Boston and Ellie and Joel had to be somewhere around Colorado, right? I actually didn't really register the fact that they were both in a mall until someone mentioned it here, even though it was obvious. I mean, I knew I was in a mall, I just didn't think "Oh, they're both in a mall".