Adding new mechanics under the same systems in the previous game is exactly what you would expect to find in game DLC.
You can't be a Console Warrior and accuse others of doing the same thing.
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The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom – Mr. Aonuma Gameplay Demonstration
Adding new mechanics under the same systems in the previous game is exactly what you would expect to find in game DLC.
You can't be a Console Warrior and accuse others of doing the same thing.
I won't pass, but I do think BOTW is overrated and I still enjoyed the game.
Anyways, I can't wait to see what kind of dumb shit people craft in this game.
Marvel14
Banned
Not the same systems though are they? Lots of new ones. Lots.
Or is God of War Ragnarok just God of War DLC? Sure there are new realms and new mechanics but the graphic style and core mechanics ("same systems") are unchanged.
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ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
I like the "fuse" feature, but the "ascend" looks cheap. Also, if they care so much about the durability of the weapons, why does the durability increase when you attach a stone to the end of a damaged stick?
When I watch the video at 1.5 speed, it provides a 60 fps experience and I could not watch it at normal speed again. This game deserves to be played at 60fps. It's a shame that Nintendo insists on releasing this game on a weak hardware.
When I watch the video at 1.5 speed, it provides a 60 fps experience and I could not watch it at normal speed again. This game deserves to be played at 60fps. It's a shame that Nintendo insists on releasing this game on a weak hardware.
SiahWester
Member
I'm sorry but this game is severely underwhelming for me and I'm upset becauase Zelda is like a religious experience for me. We really waited six years for a glorified expansion pack? Really? Aonuma is off his rocker to greenlight using the same map and everything. I'm guessing Nintendo didn't work through the pandemic because there's no way they intended to release this game so late in this state. This game wouldve worked if we didnt have to wait as long as we did. This is no Majoras Mask though. If you're going to take six years to develop a game and charge $70 you don't do this. This is the first Zelda game I'm not going to buy 
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Marvel14
Banned
If you don't like discovery and carving unique paths then you'll never find it. But that's OK, to each their own.
HofT
Member
A sequel is typically created to capitalize on the success of the original work, but it can also serve as a way to further explore a world or idea that was introduced in the first work.
So, what you just described is a sequel. Adding new mechanics under the same systems in the previous game is exactly what you would expect to find in a sequel. You're building more and new on top of what was already built.
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Variahunter
Member
1. Hearts and Stamina vessels are basically the same thing as Hearts piece in other Zelda, something nice but not a great discovery that help you progress in the world like a new item. They did increase the meaning of those in BotW though, because it's harder than previous installments.
2. Koroks seed are only needed because of that badg game design that consist in stacking weapons and shields because they all break.
3. Armors, as I said, are the only good rewards of the game, because they're not breakable and give good esthetics and gameplay/stats changes
4. Weapons and shields break. Not a good reward.
5. Like previous entries and most of the games out there, nothing new here.
6. Divine Beast are absolutely not a reward. They're not even good dungeons, they're barebones, with shitty bosses and no reward inside of them. Wtf did I just read...
7. You already said that in your first point.
8. Funny how you differentiate the Master Sword from the other weapons. Maybe it is special because it can't be broken ? So it's a good, useful progression item ? Even if there's a timer, still better than nothing I guess...
9. Elemental arrows : You're reaching on this one... They are currencies like in others Zelda. In previous Zelda it was even simpler as you just had to use magic, but you didn't loose those.
10. Memories : So I guess the scenario in OoT and all the scenes it had are a reward too ?
Finding a shrine is a reward ? No. It's interesting, but it's not a reward per se. The end reward is the Heart/stamina vessel.
Or are we back to "exploration is the reward for exploring" ?
You don't see Indiana Jones exploring all those temples just to explore them, he wants the reward inside of them. Because otherwise, why risk his life for nothing ?
So I'm sorry, but in a adventure game, there's always the need for a risk/reward ratio (if it's well designed, like in Elden Ring), and the reward must allow you to progress to your endgoal in a meaningful and enjoyable way. Moreover, the reward also needs to add something new to the gameplay, or allow you to grow stronger. That's why BotW is really incredible during the Great Plateau, but slowly loose steam afterwards.
Imagine a RPG where all the rewards you can have are HP and stamina, but your weapons don't change, you don't learn new skills and you don't hit harder. Because that's more or less BotW. But it compensate those flaws with its systems, which were ingenious and fresh back in 2017.
I just expected Nintendo to adress these flaws with TotK, given they had 6 years to make it, and reusing all the previous assets, even the fucking map
But instead I get an expansion for 70$, and not even one flaw (for now as we know it) resolved.
TheGodfather07
Member
I really hope Nintendo can eventually do both types of zelda games. The new open world formula and the old classic formula. They both scratch a different itch.
I haven't played GOWR extensively so I wouldn't know. If it was built using the same engine AND features the same environments and enemies from the previous game (I know it doesn't do this) AND didn't iterate on any of the gameplay tools that were being brought back from the previous game. . .sure, make the argument that GOWR is a glorified DLC.
I have however played HFW ("Oh no, a Sony fanboy!") and undoubtedly you could NOT do what you can do in that game in the original. So I ask: what are you seeing in this that couldn't have been done as DLC in BOTW? Like this is a wildly stupid and reductive framing of what DLC is, but I'll go down this track to see what it is folks (like myself) aren't seeing in this demonstration.
. . .including the "lots and lots" of new systems (there aren't any that I've seen, just additions to the existing physics based system from the previous game).
As well as appropriately priced DLC.
If this were a side release like that Dynasty Warriors Zelda game, that would be great. That we haven't had a good (in my opinion) true ZELDA since WW is insane. I loved getting lost, confused and enraged (I'm sure I was doing it wrong but climbing that tree in one of the first areas was Soulslike levels of infuriating) in that game and experienced NONE of that in BOTW.
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Marvel14
Banned
Just let them be...it takes a special kind if boredom and life aimlessness to pontificate about a game you don't like in a thread dedicated to capturing excitement for its sequel.
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The only good Nintendo is one that is struggling, when they are on top they dont have to do anything godlike.1. Hearts and Stamina vessels are basically the same thing as Hearts piece in other Zelda, something nice but not a great discovery that help you progress in the world like a new item. They did increase the meaning of those in BotW though, because it's harder than previous installments.
2. Koroks seed are only needed because of that badg game design that consist in stacking weapons and shields because they all break.
3. Armors, as I said, are the only good rewards of the game, because they're not breakable and give good esthetics and gameplay/stats changes
4. Weapons and shields break. Not a good reward.
5. Like previous entries and most of the games out there, nothing new here.
6. Divine Beast are absolutely not a reward. They're not even good dungeons, they're barebones, with shitty bosses and no reward inside of them. Wtf did I just read...
7. You already said that in your first point.
8. Funny how you differentiate the Master Sword from the other weapons. Maybe it is special because it can't be broken ? So it's a good, useful progression item ? Even if there's a timer, still better than nothing I guess...
9. Elemental arrows : You're reaching on this one... They are currencies like in others Zelda. In previous Zelda it was even simpler as you just had to use magic, but you didn't loose those.
10. Memories : So I guess the scenario in OoT and all the scenes it had are a reward too ?
Finding a shrine is a reward ? No. It's interesting, but it's not a reward per se. The end reward is the Heart/stamina vessel.
Or are we back to "exploration is the reward for exploring" ?
You don't see Indiana Jones exploring all those temples just to explore them, he wants the reward inside of them. Because otherwise, why risk his life for nothing ?
So I'm sorry, but in a adventure game, there's always the need for a risk/reward ratio (if it's well designed, like in Elden Ring), and the reward must allow you to progress to your endgoal in a meaningful and enjoyable way. Moreover, the reward also needs to add something new to the gameplay, or allow you to grow stronger. That's why BotW is really incredible during the Great Plateau, but slowly loose steam afterwards.
Imagine a RPG where all the rewards you can have are HP and stamina, but your weapons don't change, you don't learn new skills and you don't hit harder. Because that's more or less BotW. But it compensate those flaws with its systems, which were ingenious and fresh back in 2017.
I just expected Nintendo to adress these flaws with TotK, given they had 6 years to make it, and reusing all the previous assets, even the fucking map
But instead I get an expansion for 70$, and not even one flaw (for now as we know it) resolved.
Icymanipulator
Member
Seems like it would have taken far less time to just swim across the “wide river”.
HofT
Member
Of course, it's just on a lesser scale. But with this new game I'm pretty sure there's going to be a lot more.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
Wooow so that's where the focus is
Brilliant decision to focus on expanding Link's weird powers that reward creativity
Can't wait to play around with all those crazy abilities...only problem is that the way I imagined getting to play this Zelda is not how it will go down. I pictured the game coming out in a situation where I could just get lost in it for months and months, I even imagined replaying BotW a month before it releases to get ready... But this is year is just so stacked with game releases! There isn't really a gaming hole for a huge open world adventure to fill right now. Definition of first world problems I guess
Brilliant decision to focus on expanding Link's weird powers that reward creativity
Can't wait to play around with all those crazy abilities...only problem is that the way I imagined getting to play this Zelda is not how it will go down. I pictured the game coming out in a situation where I could just get lost in it for months and months, I even imagined replaying BotW a month before it releases to get ready... But this is year is just so stacked with game releases! There isn't really a gaming hole for a huge open world adventure to fill right now. Definition of first world problems I guess
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
When I was younger the problem was money and now the problem is time.
It’s crazy how many quality games coming out back to back.
Marvel14
Banned
Fusion, ascendance and recall would not have worked within the rules and aims of the original game.
Fusion partly negates hoarding or seeking powerful weapons and collecting arrow types - core game mechanic of BoTW. It also allows for vehicle creation which completely changes the exploration dynamic ( as opposed to a dlc motorbike which is just a motorised horse)
Ascendance partly negates stamina climbing- another core mechanic.
Recall has no purpose in BOTW.
And we dont even know how the world map has changed. If sky islands are an indication, the whole map will be familiar but different.
And this is only based on a very partial reveal.
So yeah youre talking out of your booty.
You haven't answered why this couldn't be done in the previous game. All you've (attempted) to answer is why the developers didn't do it in the first place. There is nothing about those mechanics that couldn't have been done in the original game. Full. Stop.
We'll see. I'm open to the game being a marked improvement over the "aimlessness as a feature" of the first one, but I'm not holding my breath after the presentation.
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Or management of weight limits.
Marvel14
Banned
I explained how the new systems and mechanics negate part of the original's core gameplay tropes and aims. "why didnt developers do this" is a bullshit way of trying to recast an explanation for why it isnt "just dlc". Why don't you point to an example of DLC that negates multiple core gameplay tropes and aims of its source game to prove me wrong. I'm happy to wait.
Oh and when I saw the first trailers I was totally in the "shit this just looks like DLC" camp so I do empathise with where you're coming from.
Fbh
Member
Swimming in BotW uses stamina. The part shown in the video is probably early in the game before any stamina upgrades so you probably wouldn't have enough to cross the river.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Next they will tell you you acquire some item that stores your creative vehicles somewhere. Or maybe you can build your own bases across the map and store handcrafted traversal tools all across the map further expanding playtime as well as world immersion.
Seems exciting. It's really cool that in BotW you could interact with the entire world by climbing it but here it's taken a step further to where you can actually form vehicles and improvised weapons out of the environment around you and somehow feel new as opposed to the dime a dozen Survival Base builder games I loathe entirely.
HofT
Member
How was BotW aimless? The main objective of the game is for the player to explore the vast open world of Hyrule, discover its secrets, and defeat Calamity Ganon. So essentially, the main objective is to prepare the player for the final battle. That's certainly not aimless, that's an objective, similarly to Elden Ring.
And, I mean, we really don't know anything about this game so there's obviously going to be much more to show.
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Laieon
Member
And if not, I hope someone else is up to trying. I just want to feel excited for a Zelda (or Zelda-esque) game again. BOTW was okay, but not what I want out of Zelda at all. It felt like a completely different series to me, but it's pretty clear that this is the future of the franchise and yet there's really nothing else to jump onto to scratch that traditional 3D-Zelda itch. Okami and Darksiders 1 are generations old...
Skyward Sword was a pretty rapid departure from the traditional 3D-Zelda formula too with Skyloft essentially being Peach's castle, a heavier focus on character development (what other Zelda game had something like Groose's arch?), motion controls, and "the world is a dungeon" with a huge shift from semi-open worlds (Hyrule Field, The Great Sea, etc...) to linear, puzzle-oriented gameplay. If Breath of the Wild is on one end of the spectrum, Skyward Sword is on the other.
The last Zelda game to truly follow that classic 3D Zelda formula was Twilight Princess... 17 years ago and man do I miss that style of 3D Zelda.
If the next big Zelda game has just as long of a development time as Tears of the Kingdom did after Breath of the Wild's release, then we're looking at 2029 as a release date. 2017-2029 is the same time frame we saw literally every single traditional 3D Zelda title from Ocarina of Time to Twilight Princess released in, on top of multiple 2D titles. Unlike Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, each of those titles had unique art directions, characters to meet, and worlds to explore.
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Moses85
Member
Prey for a good Steam Deck Emulator, this makes more sense
Sometimes I get the feeling that people are dense on purpose. It's better than the alternative.
The problem isn't weapon durability being in the game. The problem is how fast it rears it's head in.
There are weapons in BOTW that get destroyed in 5 uses. I used more than 10 different weapons fighting a single one of those lion guys,. 10 different weapons. 9 of them hadn't been used previously. All 10 broke and I didn't even kill the monster.
This isn't fun. I'd find myself a weapon I liked and then I'd not use it in fear of losing it.
Kudos to people that wanted more of the same. This game isn't for me. That's fine.
I expected them to atleast address the biggest complaints. They kept everything I disliked, improved nothing I wanted (like the below average combat) and added nothing I care about.
Mozza
Member
To be honest from what little we have seen so far, It's pretty much impossible to judge either way.I'm sorry but this game is severely underwhelming for me and I'm upset becauase Zelda is like a religious experience for me. We really waited six years for a glorified expansion pack? Really? Aonuma is off his rocker to greenlight using the same map and everything. I'm guessing Nintendo didn't work through the pandemic because there's no way they intended to release this game so late in this state. This game wouldve worked if we didnt have to wait as long as we did. This is no Majoras Mask though. If you're going to take six years to develop a game and charge $70 you don't do this. This is the first Zelda game I'm not going to buy
TheGodfather07
Member
I agree with everything you said. I actually recently replayed both wind waker HD and twilight princess HD on the wii u and it made realise how much I missed real zelda. So unique instead of the copy paste zelda design we have now. Shrines and divine beasts is an awful replacement for actual dungeons. It reeks of Nintendo getting lazy.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Is this the exact same map but just with floating islands?
Don't think I can stomach exploring the same shit again. New mechanics aren't going to make up for that
Don't think I can stomach exploring the same shit again. New mechanics aren't going to make up for that
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Zelda and Link are going to fuse at the end and DBZ Ganon in the face.
ByWatterson
Member
DESIGNER: Sir, people don't like the weapon durability system. Should we scrap it?
DIRECTOR: No! Add another system on top of it!
10/10 GOTG
DIRECTOR: No! Add another system on top of it!
10/10 GOTG
TheGodfather07
Member
Do we know if shrines are making a return?
HofT
Member
You can dismiss the rewards and gameplay mechanics if you don't like them. But you can't say there's a lack of progression. It's just silly.1. Hearts and Stamina vessels are basically the same thing as Hearts piece in other Zelda, something nice but not a great discovery that help you progress in the world like a new item. They did increase the meaning of those in BotW though, because it's harder than previous installments.
2. Koroks seed are only needed because of that badg game design that consist in stacking weapons and shields because they all break.
3. Armors, as I said, are the only good rewards of the game, because they're not breakable and give good esthetics and gameplay/stats changes
4. Weapons and shields break. Not a good reward.
5. Like previous entries and most of the games out there, nothing new here.
6. Divine Beast are absolutely not a reward. They're not even good dungeons, they're barebones, with shitty bosses and no reward inside of them. Wtf did I just read...
7. You already said that in your first point.
8. Funny how you differentiate the Master Sword from the other weapons. Maybe it is special because it can't be broken ? So it's a good, useful progression item ? Even if there's a timer, still better than nothing I guess...
9. Elemental arrows : You're reaching on this one... They are currencies like in others Zelda. In previous Zelda it was even simpler as you just had to use magic, but you didn't loose those.
10. Memories : So I guess the scenario in OoT and all the scenes it had are a reward too ?
Finding a shrine is a reward ? No. It's interesting, but it's not a reward per se. The end reward is the Heart/stamina vessel.
Or are we back to "exploration is the reward for exploring" ?
You don't see Indiana Jones exploring all those temples just to explore them, he wants the reward inside of them. Because otherwise, why risk his life for nothing ?
So I'm sorry, but in a adventure game, there's always the need for a risk/reward ratio (if it's well designed, like in Elden Ring), and the reward must allow you to progress to your endgoal in a meaningful and enjoyable way. Moreover, the reward also needs to add something new to the gameplay, or allow you to grow stronger. That's why BotW is really incredible during the Great Plateau, but slowly loose steam afterwards.
Imagine a RPG where all the rewards you can have are HP and stamina, but your weapons don't change, you don't learn new skills and you don't hit harder. Because that's more or less BotW. But it compensate those flaws with its systems, which were ingenious and fresh back in 2017.
I just expected Nintendo to adress these flaws with TotK, given they had 6 years to make it, and reusing all the previous assets, even the fucking map
But instead I get an expansion for 70$, and not even one flaw (for now as we know it) resolved.
There's also:
11. Ancient Materials: You can collect ancient materials throughout the game, which can be used to upgrade various items, including armor, weapons, and the Sheikah Slate.
12. Hestu's Gift: After collecting a certain number of Korok Seeds and returning them to Hestu, he will reward you with a special item that increases your inventory space.
13. Lynel Materials: Defeating Lynels will reward you with valuable materials that can be used to upgrade various items, including armor.
14. Great Fairy Fountains: Visiting Great Fairy Fountains and offering them certain items, such as rupees or materials, will allow them to upgrade your armor.
15. Kilton's Medals: You can earn Kilton's Medals by defeating various monsters, which can be traded in to Kilton for special masks and other items.
16. Cooking Recipes: Learning and cooking various recipes especially the Royal Recipes will provide you with dishes that provide significant boosts to your stats.
17. Star Fragments: Rarely, shooting stars will fall from the sky at night, and collecting these star fragments can be used to upgrade certain items.
If there's one thing I think they should improve on is to force players even more to use their weapons instead of hoarding them. Double down on weapon durability. So like, maybe when your weapon breaks you get extra shards that can power up the master sword.
And for this new game, we still don't really know much about it. I'll say, stay tuned.
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So an upgrade of the weapon with fusion to increase durability didn't address the issue? You want durability completely gone? But it's not gone in other games. Which was my point.
I'm not the person being dense.
You cried about it. Nintendo came up with a fix or compromise, and even before you played it your still crying.
If you want durability completely gone then say so. Hence my point with the other 5-10 games mentioned. Warcraft durability for exceeds this and is a failure penalty. We don't know how much having a tree on fused to a branch strengthens said weapon. All I'm saying is:
1. I get your opinions on the last game. I understand it annoyed you.
2. Before you poo poo the mechanics test them.
What is being negated with ANY of those new abilities? Ascend in particular clearly implies stamina is in the game, otherwise it is a pointless inclusion. And if it can work in this game, that means it could have worked in the previous game. Weapon durability is still in the game it's just now less irritating with an ability. Again, new coexisting with the old. Nothing has been negated.
And that's the point people are making that some of you are just waving off as if folks just can't. . .quite. . .grasp. . .the point of BOTW/TOTK for what it has on offer. This game could be leagues better than the first and make me feel satisfied after beating it in a way that BOTW didn't even come close to (I rarely finish large games like that and I wish I hadn't wasted my time). That still doesn't negate (snark intended) the complaints about what is being presented not worth the time waited or - necessarily - the next generation fee for entry.
Someone said it was, and Google seems to agree. It is wild honestly. My only hope is that they know just how insane an idea this is and perhaps the gameplay makes sense for this decision.
. . .not holding my breath and something tells me it is exactly what it appears to be.
Rat Rage
Member
Should be:
DESIGNER: Sir, a very very small amount of people - your typical crybabies who complain about every new Zelda gameplay mechanic in every Zelda Game ever - don't like the weapon durability system. Should we scrap it?
DIRECTOR: No! Add another system on top of it!
10/10 GOTG
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It's a Zelda game with new interesting mechanics and people mad because they actually don't like or play Zelda.
But if another game copies the mechanics and slaps it on their franchise it's innovative.
It's the same with wanting the old Zelda game they played 20 years ago.
That old Zelda game I wish they made another like it. They do and they say I want something new. They make something new. This isn't the Zelda I remember I want that old Zelda game. Recurring cycle.
Boy I wish that BotW had a sequel. WTH this is just BotW DLC.
Like it never ends.
---------------
Game looks great and I'll have months of fun and have a reason to dust off my Switch.
ByWatterson
Member
It was uh....not a small amount of people. Even people who loved BOTW (I rather enjoyed it) found the system annoying.
I mainlined to get the Master Sword as early as possible to circumvent it.
PianistaMacabro
Member
How, If we have the ascend hability? It Locks up alot from a design perspective
Rat Rage
Member
I call bullshit. It's the same with the motion controls in Skyward Sword. A vast majority liked or didn't have any problems with it, while a very small, vocal minority constantly complained about it on the internet.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Personally I can see why people can feel skeptical. Totally fine with me. Doesn't affect me. It does look like DLC.
But the more I think about it the more excited I am to play it. What happens if you put an eyeball on a bomb? No idea let's try it. What happens if you put a bomb into a giant Boulder? No idea let's try it. What happens of you put sleep mushroom shield traps on the ground like land mines? No idea let's try it. It will be that for 100 hours. Just constant discovery. Plus dungeons, time rewind, sky islands, and whatever other new shit is in there.
More than enough to be day 1 for me.
But the more I think about it the more excited I am to play it. What happens if you put an eyeball on a bomb? No idea let's try it. What happens if you put a bomb into a giant Boulder? No idea let's try it. What happens of you put sleep mushroom shield traps on the ground like land mines? No idea let's try it. It will be that for 100 hours. Just constant discovery. Plus dungeons, time rewind, sky islands, and whatever other new shit is in there.
More than enough to be day 1 for me.
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HofT
Member
If anything they need to double down on weapon durabilty. In the new game I hope they force players even more to use their weapons instead of hoarding them. So like, maybe when your weapon breaks you get extra shards that can power up the master sword.
-Zelda-
Banned
I am probably inviting trouble on myself for stating this, but the fact that the stamina bar and breakable weapons are still a thing in this game, has me losing interest. I did not like those mechanics and a few others in BOTW, so I am not interested in revisiting it for BOTW 2.0. Also, unrelated to Zelda in general are me being tired of open world games. This sort of thing just isn't for me. Don't @ me.
skyfall
Member
Good, and they never should
StereoVsn
Member
Weapon durability is back? Ok, will wait to play it on PC with mods.
Will buy it off the voucher when mids are there. With discount from that and eShop card discount from Costco/Newegg it's not that bad.
I am probably inviting trouble on myself for stating this, but the fact that the stamina bar and breakable weapons are still a thing in this game, has me losing interest. I did not like those mechanics and a few others in BOTW, so I am not interested in revisiting it for BOTW 2.0. Also, unrelated to Zelda in general are me being tired of open world games. This sort of thing just isn't for me. Don't @ me.
I am in the same boat, but I will wait till mods get released (hopefully) and then rip my copy off hacked OG Switch. 0 chance otherwise.
Will buy it off the voucher when mids are there. With discount from that and eShop card discount from Costco/Newegg it's not that bad.
I am probably inviting trouble on myself for stating this, but the fact that the stamina bar and breakable weapons are still a thing in this game, has me losing interest. I did not like those mechanics and a few others in BOTW, so I am not interested in revisiting it for BOTW 2.0. Also, unrelated to Zelda in general are me being tired of open world games. This sort of thing just isn't for me. Don't @ me.
I am in the same boat, but I will wait till mods get released (hopefully) and then rip my copy off hacked OG Switch. 0 chance otherwise.
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Complete and utter bullspit. Like, this is so demonstrably false it is nutty that you even reached for it.
Even better, just make weapons one use. That would be the ultimate in "forced variety of play."
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