TC McQueen
Member
That's why I said "almost everyone," because folks like you hold ME1 on such a high pedestal.
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The Mass Effect Community Thread
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JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
the "almost everyone" argument would go to ME1.
Are you seriously trying to think that "almost everyone" feels that ME3 had the best RPG elements?
The Artisan
Member
I'm probably in the minority but I did not like the combat or the gameplay overall in Me3. I think Me2 was the best in the trilogy in terms of gameplay and story. Everything down to the sound effects in the combat bothered me in Me3. The only addition I liked was the unlimited sprint in and out of combat. And although there were more main plot missions (there kinda had to be) a lot of them were fucking fetch quests. It seemed the reaper threat was just something happening all throughout the background but wasn't the main focus of the game. Maybe Me2 was just so good that it became too hard to top. Even if Bioware came out with a game that I did like I probably would still like Me3 more.
I'll agree with you that people say Uc3 is garbage just because it wasn't as good as Uc2. It's still a great game in its own right. As far as Me3 and Me2 goes, I'm of the opinion that there was a lot more wrong with Me3 than just its ending. I made a thread about it
prag16
Banned
Well, this isn't the same thing as "ME2 is GOAT, ME3 is bad".
ME3 obviously had its issues. ME2 did too. Many of your complaints I either disagree with completely or see as miniscule nitpicks. Others I'd think should be obviously valid to any rational person.
I was mainly reacting to the perceived extremity of what you expressed; e.g. one games is favorite ever, the other you flat out "didn't like". But I guess this type of thing can be common with fans (like the UC2, UC3 example I cited).
What? Sound was great in ME3. Dat biotic explosion. It was almost non-existent in ME2. And then there was the cool gun sound effects.
The Artisan
Member
No it's not, which is why my opinion is what it is.
are you referring to this thread or the points I made in the other one? I think I made some very valid points so if you find them to be miniscule nitpicks, then you're just very easily satisfied. If I misunderstood you maybe you can clarify.
I agree with you about how it's dumb of people to dismiss Uc3 just because it wasn't as good as Uc2. The case is slightly different with Me2 and Me3 though. Perhaps this has to do with the fact, I'll quote someone in the Me2 vs Uc2 thread:
He was talking about the second respective games, but I would say this only about Me3. Uc3 only aimed to be better than Uc2, so there one can argue it failed but it isn't exactly rational to call it a horrible game. However, Me3 aimed for something higher than just being better than just being better than Me2, and I think it disappointed people in many more ways than Uc3 did for uncharted fans. With that being said, I acknowledge that I dislike Me3 more than the average person who dislikes it.
Well, I didn't like them. I didn't like the new sound effects for the biotic charge, the new animations and sounds for the shockwave, made it seem much less effective. All I liked was the unlimited sprint.
The Artisan
Member
Although sometimes I do think to myself, maybe I am a little harsh on Me3. just maybe.
I thought that to myself before/during/after praying Asr just now.
I thought that to myself before/during/after praying Asr just now.
prag16
Banned
The other thread. No, I don't think I'm just "easily satisfied" if I disagree with you. I'll expand.
Graphics, sound, animation, art direction: I disagree. I'd say even, or slight edge to 3.
Cerberus: Heavier emphasis on fighting Reapers in the gameplay would have been nice, but as a squad based shooter this wouldn't have really worked. They did it on Rannoch in a way, but otherwise, not sure how we expected to be fighting anything other than minions and Cerberus. I didn't mind the direction they went with TIM; though Kai Leng was garbage.
Superweapon: Yes, this was dumb. But it didn't really ruin anything for me. ThoseDeafMutes's idea was better.
Fetch quests: You mean the sidequests I'm assuming? I've stated this before, and I know I'm in the minority, but the way that they handled these actually redeemed them for me at least in part. The idea of overhearing conversations and having your omnitool pick up on it and automatically log stuff which you could do along the way when visiting systems you would have visited anyway... this makes much more sense to me against the backdrop of urgent galactic war than meticulously walking up to every NPC to beg for quests. To me it was a way to still have side stuff to do without making it laborious or straining suspension of disbelief more than necessary.
The next issue, I guess you're contending the races are acting way too selfish, and you think they should have been helping against the reapers all along without needing coaxing from Shepard? Well, I guess, but everybody's got their problems, and not everyone is going to have the same perspective as Shepard. Rallying support from disparate factions is a common Bioware trope, so it shouldn't have come as a surprise.
Issue with the DS3 (dual shock 3?)? You didn't like the gameplay? Well, it was similar to ME2 (except better, in my opinion; more refined, controlled better, etc) I played on PC.
Complaining about the Reapers in Leviathan didn't attack the way you thought they would, and the Reaper fight on Rannoch (you weren't doing it by yourself; their "explanation" of what you were doing was okay enough in my opinion) to me is nitpicking. (And didn't you just complain before that you didn't fight reapers enough?) I don't agree that Leviathan ruined the Reaper backstory. It ties in with their tech singularity prevention task, and helps explain that motivation (something star child alone did a shitty job with).
Yes, the action/story/classic mode selection was stupid. But just make the "correct" choice and move on... letting it detract from the game for you is odd.
I'm not at all denying that the game had many issues. ME2 and ME3 are both great games in my opinion. ME3 was the bigger shame in a way since it didn't live up to some of the (probably impossible) expectations, but to me that doesn't necessarily take away from it as an extremely fun game that was more mechanically sound than it's predecessors in my opinion.
So as I said (and my reason for commenting in the first place), I find it strange to hold 2 up as GOAT and 3 as "bad" or a game you "didn't like (your own words)".
The notion that I'm "easily satisfied" because I don't agree is not really valid in my opinion.
EDIT: sorry about the lengthy moderately off topic post, but I just didn't really appreciate being derided as "easily satisfied" essentially because I didn't dislike ME3 enough.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Huh? They actually ran just fine on both PS3 and 360. 360 was a little better, but I can't even recall a single performance issue, aside from long load times on PS3.
The Artisan
Member
They were definitely enhanced, but I liked it all much more in Me2. The character models looked faker to me for some reason in Me3. I didn't like a lot of the new sound effects either, but this is preference. You liked them so it worked for you, I didn't so it didn't work for me.
This is why I was hoping for something really revolutionary and different with Me3, but I'll admit for myself I was setting my expectations way too high. TIM was handled how everyone saw it coming. It would have been more interesting if they played a twist with Cerberus and instead went against what the Alliance and everyone else was saying about them, and maybe even tie it into whatever decision you made at the end of Me2. But instead, whatever decision you make, Cerberus has animosity towards you.
Let me put it this way - if the ending wasn't so horrifically bad, or if the game had some post-ending gameplay, then the superweapon and all the other complaints wouldn't be of much matter. It's the fact that there were all these things I didn't like, on TOP of the bad ending at the finish, is what left me extremely disappointed.
Again, it's fine that this worked out for you - we don't have to agree. But if you're in the minority about it and more than a few people are found complaining, I don't think it is simple nitpicking.
The other species weren't being selfish, they were legitimate concerns, I think I mentioned it helped to make ME a believable and complicated universe, but everyone should have the same perspective as Shepard because the reaper threat is the most immediate in the galaxy affecting everyone simultaneously. It does not, and should not have mattered whatever else was going on because for the Milky Way galaxy, the reaper was a pre-apocalypse level threat because of the destruction and mass, MASS killings they were causing. But what I'm saying here, also goes with what I said about the crucible.
The 2 things I liked about the gameplay were the unlimited sprint, and the smashing effect after cryofreezing someone. But when I was doing the sprinting, since Shepard was stuck on the left side of the screen during combat I found myself often getting stuck in corners. This is probably just a thing with me.
You can call it nitpicking, to me it is quickly finding an obvious flaw - it certainly took me out of the narrative. Shepard said reapers are more intelligent than humans. That reaper should've had the idea of blasting the fuck out of shepard and his squad from where it was because it was certainly capable of killing them by doing that. Instead of shooting down minions that are shepard's size that he can take.
You weren't alone on rannoch, but they definitely wanted you to have the feeling that it was you, shepard vs the reaper. And that does not make sense, but in and of itself I guess was cool.
That is exactly what I did, but the fact that there was this option was so so wrong. By the way, RPG is supposed to = story to a certain extent, so I didn't even know what the "correct" choice was supposed to be. It didn't detract from the game going forward, but when I think about how they even had the option it's always a smh feeling.
of course, no game is perfect. I have to say though objectively bad ending or not, I did not have nearly as much fun or feels with Me3 as I did with 2. if by mechanically sound you mean the technical issues, the Ps3 versions of the ME games had problems all over the place.
Don't take it so personally that I said you were easily satisfied. I wasn't deriding you if that's what it seemed like; I don't think I was nitpicking, at least not with all of the problems with Me3 that I had listed. Other people understand where I'm coming from, you not so much - but that's fine. I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for not "disliking Me3 enough". But I don't think what I've said is without merit
Me3 played pretty iffy on Ps3 at some points. Not as bad as Me2, but the issues were there. I distinctly remember the mission on Mars where the illusive man showed up, and Shepard started having a conversation with him - suddenly the audio for dialogue got cut off, and Illusive man's right arm magically disappeared and he was moving without talking.
prag16
Banned
As I said it's just the GOAT -> AWFUL GARBAGE leap that gets me. There are reasons why ME3 was disappointing, for myself included. I know you didn't say awful garbage. But you get my drift.
For me when I think a game is "bad" or if I "don't like" a game, generally that means I can't even get through it. And I have such feeling on a ton of extremely popular games. GTA5 for example I believe to be a steaming pile of boring as fuck crap (and a banner example of "interesting things to do" gone wrong, to allude to the earlier discussion here about Dragon Age). Watching the video of senior citizens playing the game with their commentary was more fun than the actual game...
We can definitely agree that Casey/Mac fucked up royally with ME3 at least. Mac succeeded. I'm still speculating.
The Artisan
Member
I think for me it goes back to what Lion Heart said in the Me2 vs Uc2 thread --> "Me2 aims higher but its not a great RPG nor is it a great shooter". I would take his sentence and apply it to Me3. After the gem that was Me2, Me3 aimed to be greater as a sequel but for me (once I got to the ending), failed miserably. Throughout the game I really wasn't having all that much fun but of course what I everyone else looked most forward to was the ending so if the ending was stellar, I would be satisfied but since the ending disappointed so fucking badly, the product as a whole pretty much did as well.
I'm not sure what Casey & Mac did that worked out for the worse for Me3. Everyone always said that it was because EA rushing Bioware that Me3 was fucked.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
I wonder how ME3 would have turned out if it released with its original date in 2011.
prag16
Banned
I was having fun the whole time. Even with the shit ending I've played through 4-5 times. Even double dipped on the Wii U version after it became cheap.
If you're not familiar with the whole debacle involving Mac/Casey and what they allegedly did while finalizing the ending, you're probably better off not looking into it. It can bring nothing but pain, haha.
The Artisan
Member
Well it's fortunate for you that you enjoyed it immensely man. I'd say of those people who have gripes with Me3, the majority of people loved 95% of the game anyway. I'm in the one in the minority of the ME fan base for not liking the game as a whole. Then again, I'm also in another minority since I came from the Ps3 camp. I'm sure the vast majority was on 360, and to a lesser extent PC but probably dwarf the Ps3's fan base.
And hey... if you do know what happened you might as well share. The game's 3 years old, how much more damage could the news do now, lol
prag16
Banned
There were a couple parts to it, there was a "final hours of ME3" iOS app that came out with a bunch of info, and it is here that Mac's infamous "lots of speculation" line came from.
The "bigger" part though was alleged whistleblowing done by Patrick Weekes (one of the writers). His post was removed, but the internet forgets nothing. And consensus is that it was probably really him. Feast your eyes: http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/...-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/
I think I posted this already but want more opinions.
Playing through me3 for the first time with Omega, Leviathan and Citadel DLC (I've completed both me and me2 replaythroughs). Just curious when you gets think the best time to insert each dlc mission is? I've scoured the net for options and they are scattered. Some say citadel dlc is too light hearted for in game etc.
Someone give me some opinions for all of those
leviathan best split up? I've read that. Anyhow appreciate any opinions. I like to maximize good pacing and appropriate tone even if citadel is slightly jarring.
Playing through me3 for the first time with Omega, Leviathan and Citadel DLC (I've completed both me and me2 replaythroughs). Just curious when you gets think the best time to insert each dlc mission is? I've scoured the net for options and they are scattered. Some say citadel dlc is too light hearted for in game etc.
Someone give me some opinions for all of those
leviathan best split up? I've read that. Anyhow appreciate any opinions. I like to maximize good pacing and appropriate tone even if citadel is slightly jarring.I don't think it matters much for Omega. Leviathan should come fairly late.
Make Citadel be the last thing you play, after you finish the game with all the other DLC. Thematically it is a send-off to the series. The very last song in Citadel is called "End of an Era." That's when it was written and that's how the vast majority of people played it. I really recommend saving it to the very last.
Make Citadel be the last thing you play, after you finish the game with all the other DLC. Thematically it is a send-off to the series. The very last song in Citadel is called "End of an Era." That's when it was written and that's how the vast majority of people played it. I really recommend saving it to the very last.
BrassDragon
Member
I think I posted this already but want more opinions.
Playing through me3 for the first time with Omega, Leviathan and Citadel DLC (I've completed both me and me2 replaythroughs). Just curious when you gets think the best time to insert each dlc mission is? I've scoured the net for options and they are scattered. Some say citadel dlc is too light hearted for in game etc.
Someone give me some opinions for all of those
You don't have From the Ashes? That's a must-have really (it plays well after Priority: Palaven.)
Omega makes sense after the Priority: Citadel II.
It's best to split up the Citadel mission and the Citadel party... do the mission after Priorty: Rannoch then leave the rest of the content for the final act.
Investigate Leviathan after Priority: Thessia (although you could do different sections of that DLC in-between other stuff, no real need to do it all in one go.)
Finally come back to the Citadel party before Priority: Cerberus Headquarters.
prag16
Banned
I think I posted this already but want more opinions.
Playing through me3 for the first time with Omega, Leviathan and Citadel DLC (I've completed both me and me2 replaythroughs). Just curious when you gets think the best time to insert each dlc mission is? I've scoured the net for options and they are scattered. Some say citadel dlc is too light hearted for in game etc.
Someone give me some opinions for all of those
Personally I'd say Omega doesn't really matter when you so it. Leviathan works well after Thessia, and Citadel, really is do after the endgame.
As someone said, From Ashes is mandatory, and should be done ASAP (after Palavan).
I have From Ashes, just knew I wanted that soon (and had already played it)
Winterfang
Banned
Is important to got to citadel before attacking the Cerberus base. It's a point of no return after that.
I'm replaying the Citadel missions with a different save and took different decisions.
First save
Femshep, Kadian alive, Lover Liara, Wrex dead, Tali alive
Second save
Male Shepard, Ashley alive, Lover Miranda, Wrex Alive, Tali dead
Wrex continues to be a boring non character and a disappointment, can't believe I spend money on the Genesis 2 comic to have him waste space. So far it has being really fun and james continues to be the MVP, the dude is hilarious and a great party member.
I think I posted this already but want more opinions.
Playing through me3 for the first time with Omega, Leviathan and Citadel DLC (I've completed both me and me2 replaythroughs). Just curious when you gets think the best time to insert each dlc mission is? I've scoured the net for options and they are scattered. Some say citadel dlc is too light hearted for in game etc.
Someone give me some opinions for all of those
For Citadel, make a save right before the point of no return (although the game may make one automatically?), and then beat the game. Then, load up that save you made and play Citadel, so it's the final thing you do.
As others have said, it's basically designed to be the player's farewell to the Mass Effect trilogy, so it has this air of finality and closure around it that can be a bit disjointed if you then have to go and beat the game.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Citadel is best played AFTER you beat the game and treat it as the true ending.
Yes, I am aware that you can't technically play after you beat the game, but after you beat the game you will be taken back to the point right before you attack the Cerebus base. Thats when you should play it and treat it as the true ending.
Patryn, the game will automatically make a save for you. Once you beat the game it will take you right back to the savepoint automatically.
Yes, I am aware that you can't technically play after you beat the game, but after you beat the game you will be taken back to the point right before you attack the Cerebus base. Thats when you should play it and treat it as the true ending.
Patryn, the game will automatically make a save for you. Once you beat the game it will take you right back to the savepoint automatically.
Hyperzephyrian
Banned
I can't speak for anyone else, but I thought ME1 had the best story and ME3 the best gameplay. While ME1 is my favorite in the series, I prefer ME3 to ME2 in every way. I do like all three games, of course.
shinobi602
Member
The Elite
BOSS
That's what I want.
Sorry, I should correct that, at the time they seemed to run fine. But by comparison once you play them maxed 100 frames it's a shutter thinking about how they ran before.
prag16
Banned
Yeah, this is how I feel. Except in my case, while I feel like I want to, or should, like ME1 the best of the three, how compelled I am to replay each game is telling. I've played through ME1 twice, ME2 four times, and ME3 five times.
It can be.
Just know that it was designed to be the final word on the Mass Effect trilogy and explicitly to provide closure.
I usually just skip it on my latest play throughs since the humour and the memes quickly wore thin on me, but when I used to play it, it was usually right before attacking Cronos Station.
DagnastyEp
Member
My thoughts on the series are very similar to yours, though I often go back and forth between which game I actually enjoyed the most. ME1 - best story, ME2 - best team, ME3 - best gameplay, ME series - best in gaming.
My hype for ME4, while plateaued for quite a long time, has been rapidly increasing the past month. I think it has something to do with the fact I'm playing DA:I right now, which is a great game, but don't think I'll ever enjoy the games as much as I do Mass Effect.
behroozbadboy
Banned
I don't know, I thought the Citadel DLC was not that good. forced and constant jokes, literally every character trying to deliver a joke with every line of dialogue. It doesn't fit in with the trilogy at all. I thought it was just an attempt to inject happiness into the game and a closure for our beloved characters.
BDtS and LotSB are still my top favorite DLCs in the trillogy.
BDtS and LotSB are still my top favorite DLCs in the trillogy.
(btw, Fuck DLCs.)
I don't think it was meant to, which is why I think it's better to play it after finishing the game. It works much better as a meta-commentary on the series than something organic to ME3's plot, and you get some excellent character scenes to cap off the whole experience.
If we separate story into "plot" and "characters" and award each to ME1 and ME2 respectively then I agree. I'm actually not too fond of the character writing in ME1, and I think the dialogue in general is something that improved greatly as the series went on.
How exactly do you judge customizability? Some people could argue that ME3 has better customizability since your powers can vastly differ depending on your choices, meanwhile all the ME1 "customization" does is improve the damage, force, accuracy or radius. A maxed Pull in ME1 will always be the same. A maxed Pull in ME3? Depends on the player.
Guns customization is also equal (or better) in ME3 than in ME1, depending on what you prefer between ME3 and ME1 mods. Myself i prefer ME3. In ME1, I usually stick to one ammo power and mostly changed the other mod when i got an upgrade.
ME2 and ME3 also offer you a choice in how your armor look, while in ME1 you're stuck with the look your best armor got.
The only "customization" that ME1 does better than ME2 and ME3 is in your dialogue choices, where more options are available, and more often.
An argument could be made about how you can change your squadmates' appearance as well in ME1 by changing their armor, but honestly I agree with you.
ME3 was the most customizable in everything except dialogue.
Honestly, I just hope they scrap the whole mode where the player doesn't have to choose dialogue options. I have a feeling it helped contribute to the paucity of dialogue options in ME3.
Sure you could change their armor, but like Shepard, they would be stuck with the look of the best armor you purchased or looted. Don't like having Wrex with that flashy orange suit? Suck it up or give him a weaker(but cooler looking) armor.
Anyway, you can also change the look of your squadmates in ME2 and ME3, although i wish there was more than 2-3 options.
In terms of customizability, I hope they veer away from ME1's incremental numbers-based system and focus more on what ME2 and ME3 did right, which was creating a different feel between weapons/classes/builds that were not necessarily better or worse. ME2 created the basis for this and ME3 expanded on it. The accessory customization for weapons in ME3 is one of my favorite aspects of the system, especially the way the mods affected the look of your weapon.
Is it sad that a couple of times I went with weaker armor, simply because I couldn't stand the sight of the stronger armor?
I still, to this day, fucking hate how the light Colossus armor looks. It's the most fugly thing around.
Predator L X armor for life!
I'm referring to RPG elements when I say "customization."
AWizardDidIt
Member
I think the phrase "RPG Elements" is just as vague as "customization".
Playing through ME1 again was very rough for me. While I do really appreciate the world Bioware built for it, actually playing the game proved difficult. None of the guns really "feel" right and combat feels very static and unrewarding compared to what it became later on. Besides Wrex and Joker, I don't really care for the core cast of the game either. I also don't feel especially strongly for the main plotline for the game. It's ok I guess.
One thing I will say positive about Mass Effect 1 is how much they made you feel like you were trekking off into unknown space. It had a much more exploratory vibe than either of the future entries. Hearing this is going to be a major focus again of ME4 makes me very excited. Hopefully this time they actually make the world interesting to explore too.
But yeah. I think at the end of the day, the exploration is really the only thing I want them to take forward to ME4. I'd actually even prefer the more piecemeal approach to storyline that ME2 had over ME1. I think I'm in this weird minority where I thought ME2's approach to its main plot was the best. It served as a framing device to anchor a series of smaller character-based stories which are always what Bioware has done best anyway.
DagnastyEp
Member
Agree with these thoughts. I loved the upgrade/leveling/customization system in ME3. Each new level really felt significant (rather then something that felt like a small percentage better), and the branching choices drastically changed how the character handled in combat situations. I also feel ME3 had the best weapon customization system.
Poodlestrike
Banned
ME3 had the best customizability, in terms of equipment and RPG progression.
Otherwise, agreed.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Damn that tease
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