who died? Naomi and Eva, anyone else?
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The Metal Gear series' legacy: The turning point.
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who died? Naomi and Eva, anyone else?
FrankWza
Member
Death Metalist
Member
MGS4 is the best. It's insane, crazy, over the top, tries to tie up a series which started in 1987, flawed, dramatic, melodramatic, everything and nothing. I play it once every year.
It's the most insane thing ever put to disc and is the perfect culmination to an already insane series. We'll never get a series like it nor something as batshit crazy as MGS4.
It's the most insane thing ever put to disc and is the perfect culmination to an already insane series. We'll never get a series like it nor something as batshit crazy as MGS4.
MGS4 is the best. It's insane, crazy, over the top, tries to tie up a series which started in 1987, flawed, dramatic, melodramatic, everything and nothing. I play it once every year.
It's the most insane thing ever put to disc and is the perfect culmination to an already insane series. We'll never get a series like it nor something as batshit crazy as MGS4.
man that whole sequence is amazing, its such a shame that the MGS theme from 1 and 2 isn't included for legal reasons
My ranking of the MGS games I've played is 2 > 3 > 1 > 4
Have yet to play V but I plan on playing it eventually. MGS2 feels like the most Kojima game in the series and the one I'd call his greatest masterpiece. I really enjoyed the crazy story and the fast paced stealth gameplay that improved on the first game.
Have yet to play V but I plan on playing it eventually. MGS2 feels like the most Kojima game in the series and the one I'd call his greatest masterpiece. I really enjoyed the crazy story and the fast paced stealth gameplay that improved on the first game.
Possumowner
Member
Definitely 1+2 with 4 next for me,but nothing comes close to the 1st couple for myself.I didn't hate 5 but compared to what came before it,phew
Yep and yep.MGS4 is the best. It's insane, crazy, over the top, tries to tie up a series which started in 1987, flawed, dramatic, melodramatic, everything and nothing. I play it once every year.
It's the most insane thing ever put to disc and is the perfect culmination to an already insane series. We'll never get a series like it nor something as batshit crazy as MGS4.
It's pure, decadent, self-indulgent excess in videogame form. I loved it.
STILLethal
Member
MGS1 > MGS2 > MGS3 >>>>> MGS4 >>>>>>>>>> MGS5
basically
basically
cryptosporidium
Member
Liquid ocelot is fucking stupid, its a good thing MGS2 was left open to whether or not it was VR.....................................................................................................................................................................Oh
I love MGS2, but its VR. MGS1-3 are amazing. only good game post 3 was PW
I love MGS2, but its VR. MGS1-3 are amazing. only good game post 3 was PW
AudioEppa
Member
I wasn't on, or knew about Gaf back then. I would have voted both times if I was.
There can be all the long worded essays giving reasons about any problems with MGS4 from the perspective of someone, or many who did not like it. At the end of the day and many years later it's still the best game in the series for me. It was a conclusion of many years being invested in it's crazy plot.
I didn't play the psp game or V. And I have no interest in doing so. Back in 08 everything wrapped up for me.
I fell in love with the series because of it's simple gameplay supporting a very cinematic storytelling. MGS4 ended the way I wanted. For almost 9 years there has been this on going debate. I personally feel like it's because certain people do not want this game to be praised because it highlights an aspect of game design they fear of becoming more normal with other games. The long cutscenes aka. A game being more like cinema. I've seen many people over the years give me shit by telling me to "go watch a movie instead" regarding my opinion on MGS4. Especially if I have no desire to play V. A game that gets praised for its gameplay, yet. That's not the reason I enjoyed playing the series.
There can be all the long worded essays giving reasons about any problems with MGS4 from the perspective of someone, or many who did not like it. At the end of the day and many years later it's still the best game in the series for me. It was a conclusion of many years being invested in it's crazy plot.
I didn't play the psp game or V. And I have no interest in doing so. Back in 08 everything wrapped up for me.
I fell in love with the series because of it's simple gameplay supporting a very cinematic storytelling. MGS4 ended the way I wanted. For almost 9 years there has been this on going debate. I personally feel like it's because certain people do not want this game to be praised because it highlights an aspect of game design they fear of becoming more normal with other games. The long cutscenes aka. A game being more like cinema. I've seen many people over the years give me shit by telling me to "go watch a movie instead" regarding my opinion on MGS4. Especially if I have no desire to play V. A game that gets praised for its gameplay, yet. That's not the reason I enjoyed playing the series.
Strangelove77
Member
MGS2 is my favorite as well. Monotonous appearance aside, every area of the Big Shell is a cleverly constructed "level." Every area you step in is made for gameplay first and everything else later. Even when you have to go back to previous areas they're often different, whether by enemy placement or traversal method. Not to mention that despite people thinking the Big Shell looks samey and boring, the level of interactivity with it at the time was unprecedented. It felt lived in and every object seemed precisely placed where it was. The way you could fuck with the soldiers was another highlight. Just extremely meticulous.
The same could be said for MGS1 as well for its time.
MGS3 and all the MGS games forward lost that. MGS3 has a lot of cool gimmicks, a great setting, good story and memorable bosses/characters. But it didn't take the big step forward from MGS2 that MGS2 took from MGS1. MGS3 was the last time Kojima seriously gave a fuck. Everything else after was an obligation. Not just for Konami, but for the fans.
All that being said, most developers wish they could make a game half as good s Kojima has made with his passionless efforts. MGS4 is still a pretty good game(and shitty anime) and MGS5 is a great game, but they just don't measure up to the potential. MGS5 for me is both a huge disappointment, but still a great game.
Id say the same about Destiny honestly.
Im confident in Death Stranding being Kojima's next real step forward after MGS2.
The same could be said for MGS1 as well for its time.
MGS3 and all the MGS games forward lost that. MGS3 has a lot of cool gimmicks, a great setting, good story and memorable bosses/characters. But it didn't take the big step forward from MGS2 that MGS2 took from MGS1. MGS3 was the last time Kojima seriously gave a fuck. Everything else after was an obligation. Not just for Konami, but for the fans.
All that being said, most developers wish they could make a game half as good s Kojima has made with his passionless efforts. MGS4 is still a pretty good game(and shitty anime) and MGS5 is a great game, but they just don't measure up to the potential. MGS5 for me is both a huge disappointment, but still a great game.
Id say the same about Destiny honestly.
Im confident in Death Stranding being Kojima's next real step forward after MGS2.
disappeared
Banned
Eva, Para Medic, Wolf, Olga, Emma, Fortune, Naomi, the B&B unit, The Boss, Strangelove, Paz, Quiet (presumedly)... hell even Meryl died in MGS' B-ending, and was only confirmed alive when MGS4 came out.
I'm not trying to raise any point or anything, just noticed.
maybe I misunderstood your post, I thought you were specifically talking about females he killed in MGS4 only
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
Damn i really should buy a PS3 again just to finish 4 if only they could port it to PS4 😐MGS4 is the best. It's insane, crazy, over the top, tries to tie up a series which started in 1987, flawed, dramatic, melodramatic, everything and nothing. I play it once every year.
It's the most insane thing ever put to disc and is the perfect culmination to an already insane series. We'll never get a series like it nor something as batshit crazy as MGS4.
Unaha-Closp
Member
They are all fucking bonkers really. I played and enjoyed MGS1, 2, 3 and 4 but PW did nothing for me at all. Likewise I fell off MGS5 as it didn't have the same feel as 1-4 - there wasn't enough bonkers quite frankly. It could be that I just got older. MGS 1-4 are all worthy of praise and scorn I think but they are a seminal set of games.
I liked it up until MGS4, which completely lost me lol. MGS2 is my favorite. Yeah it has plenty of stupid bullshit subplots typical of the series (Liquid Ocelot, Raiden and Rose's inane relationship chatter during a counter-terrorism mission, Otacon being estranged from his stepsister because he had an affair with her mother) that make me roll my eyes. But then you get to the end and damn. Its social and political commentary are on point, as well as its metacommentary on games themselves. So good.
2 is insane for what it did and everything it comments on (big data, the nature of sequels and expectations, etc.). 3 is the pinnacle of the series for it's blend of setting, tone, characters, narrative, and gameplay. 4 improves the gameplay of 3 but overcomplicates the story to try and tie up every loose end. And the post credits scene ruins the ending. Everything after 4 is hot trash from an overarching narrative perspective.
disappeared
Banned
Sorry, I was referring to the series as a whole.
Barry Burton
Member
MGS2 and MGS3 are the peak of the series, for some reasons similar and some different, but they are excellent games.
The drop-off in quality from MGS3 to MGS4 is staggering. There's very little about that game that impressed me in any way. MGS4 is definitely the game I disagree with the masses the most on, out of any game. There are other games that I don't like, where I can at least see what others see in it and why people think it's great, but I've just never found MGS4 to be a good game at all. This is one that I'll just never understand.
3 > 2 > 5 > 1 > 4. Storytelling in V is terrible, but it's a gameplay showpiece that got me to sink close to 300 hours into it.
The drop-off in quality from MGS3 to MGS4 is staggering. There's very little about that game that impressed me in any way. MGS4 is definitely the game I disagree with the masses the most on, out of any game. There are other games that I don't like, where I can at least see what others see in it and why people think it's great, but I've just never found MGS4 to be a good game at all. This is one that I'll just never understand.
3 > 2 > 5 > 1 > 4. Storytelling in V is terrible, but it's a gameplay showpiece that got me to sink close to 300 hours into it.
John Kowalski
Banned
They're all good games. I mean they're pretty much all good, some are great i guess merit of some really strong execution.
But 2 is on a different level.
But 2 is on a different level.
SolidSnakex
Member
MGS4 is the best. It's insane, crazy, over the top, tries to tie up a series which started in 1987, flawed, dramatic, melodramatic, everything and nothing. I play it once every year.
It's the most insane thing ever put to disc and is the perfect culmination to an already insane series. We'll never get a series like it nor something as batshit crazy as MGS4.
I'll always be salty that the game didn't end the way Kojima wanted it to. That would've been ballsy as hell, but also appropriate.
dancingphlower
Member
I think 3 was the best narratively but 4 had my favorite moments. And V is amazing too. 2 was definitely not the pinnacle of the series.
MegaSackman
Member
I blame MGS2 for MGS4 outcome. 
The story semented by 2 was ridiculous, how can you fix that? That's why 3 is fantastic, it's a prequel.
Seriously, I find MGS2 a really boring game while having one if not the best level in the entire franchise, The Tanker, and I think Raiden is just a minor problem in MGS2.
Edit: 4 made me really angry tho...
The story semented by 2 was ridiculous, how can you fix that? That's why 3 is fantastic, it's a prequel.
Seriously, I find MGS2 a really boring game while having one if not the best level in the entire franchise, The Tanker, and I think Raiden is just a minor problem in MGS2.
Edit: 4 made me really angry tho...
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Exactly, MGS4 is the most ridiculous game ever made.
I don't even think there is a 1% chance we will ever see another like it.
To an extent, Metal Gear Solid 4 is timeless in terms of its frankly magnificent presentation: From the channel flicking at the start, to the seamless cutscene to gameplay transitions, to the press triangle to flashback, to the amazing set pieces (Fighting in a metal gear and that final fight hoooooly shit). The things it did were absolutely insane back in its day, and it does not get enough credit for that.
The issue with MGS4 is that the writing is mostly trash. MGS2 is probably my favourite game of all time, and it ended perfectly. It was bold to continue that story, and although I feel it could have been possible, they just hammed it up by trying to explain absolutely everything, which resulted in everything being put down to nanomachines.
The issue with MGS4 is that the writing is mostly trash. MGS2 is probably my favourite game of all time, and it ended perfectly. It was bold to continue that story, and although I feel it could have been possible, they just hammed it up by trying to explain absolutely everything, which resulted in everything being put down to nanomachines.
MGS3 is the best one, and it's because Kojima didn't feel chained to the lore of the series, and he could just go back in time and tell a completely different story. With 4, there's so much shit to tie up from the first 3, it was bound to be confusing. But I think they did a great job, considering. It's probably the weakest in the original quadrilogy, but it's still a fantastic game. Also, it's the most ridiculous. Which is fun.
3 > 2 = 1 > 4 if we are ranking.
V is a spin-off for me. Same with PW.
Which was...?
3 > 2 = 1 > 4 if we are ranking.
V is a spin-off for me. Same with PW.
Which was...?
Snake killing himself?
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
Snake and Otacon
turning themselves in for war crimes or whatever despite what they did to save the world, and then getting public executions.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
2 is absolutely incredible. 4, not as good, but an amazing love letter to series vets. Ground Zeros and what followed after are not a turning point, so much as an irredeemable dumpster fire that only serve to highlight how great 1-4 were.
FrankWza
Member
Why are you all ignoring the best MG game
What a great game. Goes overlooked. Amazing gameplay. Would make a great remaster on PS4.
afternoon delight
Member
After 3 it was all downhill for this fan. My dislike of 2 was a sign, but 3 convinced me that that whole thing must've been some kind of fluke.
Then the flurry of shitty PSP games and MGS4 came to destroy and shred any care I ever had for anything in the series. Awful writing that retroactively made what came before it worse ala Spiderman 3. Even Silent Hill Homecoming can't tarnish Silent Hill 3 for me but Kojima's embrace of his own material is probably what makes it worse.
MGR made me care again, briefly, but not for its Metal Gearness. I just stick to playing MGS1 and 3 and it's all good in this hood, sometimes jump into the NES adventures for le kicks.
Then the flurry of shitty PSP games and MGS4 came to destroy and shred any care I ever had for anything in the series. Awful writing that retroactively made what came before it worse ala Spiderman 3. Even Silent Hill Homecoming can't tarnish Silent Hill 3 for me but Kojima's embrace of his own material is probably what makes it worse.
MGR made me care again, briefly, but not for its Metal Gearness. I just stick to playing MGS1 and 3 and it's all good in this hood, sometimes jump into the NES adventures for le kicks.
SolidSnakex
Member
As ShinoguTakeruKoeru mentioned,
Snake and Otacon were supposed to be executed for war crimes. This is made more obvious by the inclusion of "Here's to You" as the ending theme. That song was originally written for two Italian anarchists who were wrongfully executed. Apparently some KojiPro staffers objected to the ending because they found it to be too depressing. So, that lead to the ending that we saw in the final game.
ScientificPizza
Banned
this doesn't make sense
"if you think the godfather part iii is bad, i say you gotta put the blame on the godfather part ii"
IrishNinja
Member
i feel bad that 4 had the onus of trying to tie together literal decades of lore (fuck, it came with a digital encyclopedia) but even then, it did so laughably bad and firmly established big boss as the more compelling character. i mean, 4 had a few interesting gameplay sections - some held back by the hardware, but that's forever been the case with this series - but while it can be argued there likely wasn't a great way to tie up the overarching plot, this one did so in such a way that i was kinda done with Solid Snake. established characters were thrown right out the window, seemingly without much thought, and the gaping plotholes were made worse by a story not interesting enough for me to overlook them.
5's ending had some high-tier kojima fuckery, no doubt, but after the majesty that was 3, i just think 4 really messed things up in such a way that playing Raiden without all that bullshit was especially refreshing.
this is a pretty good list, i need some more time away from V to see where i'd rank it overall but yeah
5's ending had some high-tier kojima fuckery, no doubt, but after the majesty that was 3, i just think 4 really messed things up in such a way that playing Raiden without all that bullshit was especially refreshing.
this is a pretty good list, i need some more time away from V to see where i'd rank it overall but yeah
Interficium
Banned
This is fucking hilarious to read when the reality is most of the franchise's jump the shark moments came as a result of Kojima being allowed to whatever the fuck he want, take however the fuck long he wanted, and spend how ever much money he wanted.
Most of Kojima's best work came when he also had the most constraints put on him.
Such a good game.Why are you all ignoring the best MG game
Stereogatari
Banned
MGS1-3 have a feel in common.
MGS4 fees like it's own thing
MGS5 feels like it's super very own thing
2 is the one that I learn more about every time I replay it though. A beautifully layered piece of media like The Matrix.
MGS4 fees like it's own thing
MGS5 feels like it's super very own thing
2 is the one that I learn more about every time I replay it though. A beautifully layered piece of media like The Matrix.
SolidSnakex
Member
To be fair, he was given the freedom to work on a series that he really didn't want to work on anymore. He'd tried multiple times to hand the series off to other staff sot hat he could make different games and was never able to successfully do it. Even the KojiPro developed Rising eventually fell through.
Stop it!
Why are you all ignoring the best MG game
I mean, you aren't wrong.
But including that game isn't fair.
I knew I liked you robotrock
MGS2 is restrained in what way?