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The Official UFC 100 Discussion Thread

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S

Steve Youngblood

Member
Zeliard said:
Didn't the Frank Mir fight basically prove the 2nd?

I think it needs a caveat, though. Not every guy is as large, powerful and quick as Brock (in fact, nobody in MMA is), so he's going to end up beating a lot of strong technical fighters mostly due to the differences in those areas. I don't think it necessarily proves that the most technically skilled competitors don't always win, but rather that the most technically skilled competitors don't always win vs Brock Lesnar.
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Sure. I just hope that people realize that there is a difference between being skilled in a "he can win fights" sense, and being skilled in a technical, text-book "if you want to learn the sport emulate this guy" sense.

For purists, it's a tough pill to swallow, but it's silly to argue that he is only winning because he is cheating nature. If he can win fights, that by definition makes him a skilled fighter. It doesn't mean you have to like him or root for him. But you can't keep disregarding him as a hack if he can continue to beat skilled competition (that is not in anyway calling you out, Zeliard, as I'm not really addressing you with that statement).
 
C

charsace

Member
Zeke said:
If Fedor would beat Lesnar who would be able to pose a threat to Fedor? Carwin, Velasquez, Mir? Or would Dana try and bring in Arlovski for a shot?
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Roger Gracie is on the way to beat Fedor + Lesnar. His grappling is so good that he tells people how he is going to sub them and does it. Dude won a grappling championship and beat everyone he faced with the same sub for the lol's.
 
A

agrajag

Banned
Why is it even a question of whether it's staged or not?:lol

mujun said:
Who is also pretty much a joke, all he can do is strike and he can't do that very well.
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Well sure, he's a K-1 fighter. That is irrelevant, as the poster I responded to questioned Fedor's ability against much larger opponents. Brock's boxing skills aren't much to write home about either.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Steve Youngblood said:
Sure. I just hope that people realize that there is a difference between being skilled in a "he can win fights" sense, and being skilled in a technical, text-book "if you want to learn the sport emulate this guy" sense.

For purists, it's a tough pill to swallow, but it's silly to argue that he is only winning because he is cheating nature. If he can win fights, that by definition makes him a skilled fighter. It doesn't mean you have to like him or root for him. But you can't keep disregarding him as a hack if he can continue to beat skilled competition (that is not in anyway calling you out, Zeliard, as I'm not really addressing you with that statement).
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Oh yeah, Brock definitely isn't going on pure athleticism. The guy went 106-5 in collegiate wrestling and was very decorated. You don't do that just by being big and strong. He's a very good wrestler, which along with his rare speed at his size is what makes him scary.

He already has a strong MMA base with his wrestling and he's incredibly athletic, so as long as he keeps improving and learning from his mistakes (which he certainly seems to be), then the guy is going to be incredibly dominant.

Brock, the person, I couldn't care less for. Brock, the fighter? Highly intriguing.
 
B

BamYouHaveAids

Member
charsace said:
Roger Gracie is on the way to beat Fedor + Lesnar. His grappling is so good that he tells people how he is going to sub them and does it. Dude won a grappling championship and beat everyone he faced with the same sub for the lol's.
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Assuming he could pull guard, but who knows he might have a glass chin--he hasn't really faced any elite competition. Oveereem's KO of Hari impressed me, he could be a force if his striking is as good as it appears.
 
M

mujun

Member
agrajag said:
Well sure, he's a K-1 fighter. That is irrelevant, as the poster I responded to questioned Fedor's ability against much larger opponents. Brock's boxing skills aren't much to write home about either.
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Sure, it's how the larger person applies that advantage though. Choi didn't (and can't) use his weight to smother someone.

Sure Fedor could probably sub Brock reasonably easily if Brock took him down but Mir is a pretty good BJJ guy and didn't manage to do anything with it the second time.

If I were going to bet on a Fedor v Brock match, I'd put my money on Fedor for sure but if they fought 5 times I'd say Brock would come away with at least one victory.
 
Y

yacobod

Banned
charsace said:
Roger Gracie is on the way to beat Fedor + Lesnar.
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so is rickson gracie, i wish i could go find his latest interview where he claimed he could still sub lesnar and fedor, i'm paraphrasing here but he said something along the lines while fedor would be more difficult to submit than lesnar he would still get him in an armbar :lol :lol :lol

i think rickson gracie might be the most delusional person on earth, with his 500-0 record

edit:

here is the quote

Rickson told Tempos de Rio that Brock Lesnar is "impressive as an athlete. But he has holes in his game like anybody else. Technically, he is not as good as Fyodor. It would take me longer to submit Fyodor than it would him." Regarding Lesnar's punching ability Rickson commented, "I am not worried about that. Whether he punches at me on the ground or standing, it is only a matter of time. In some ways, it is easier if he tries to punch at me standing. All the simpler to take him down. It ends in an armbar or a strangle regardless." Rickson also claimed that Rei Zulu was "much bigger, and look what happened to him when we fought."
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
yacobod said:
so is renzo gracie, i wish i could go find his latest interview where he claimed he could still sub lesnar and fedor, i'm paraphrasing here but he said something along the lines while fedor would be more difficult to submit than lesnar he would still get him in an armbar :lol :lol :lol

i think renzo gracie might be the most delusional person on earth
Click to expand...

Wasn't that Rickson Gracie?

Edit: Er, nm, you edited. Yeah, guy talks some serious shit. Acting like he can still compete at 50. Didn't Matt Hughes beating Royce down teach the Gracies any humility?
 
A

agrajag

Banned
mujun said:
Sure, it's how the larger person applies that advantage though. Choi didn't (and can't) use his weight to smother someone.

Sure Fedor could probably sub Brock reasonably easily if Brock took him down but Mir is a pretty good BJJ guy and didn't manage to do anything with it the second time.

If I were going to bet on a Fedor v Brock match, I'd put my money on Fedor for sure but if they fought 5 times I'd say Brock would come away with at least one victory.
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Fedor is a much more explosive fighter than Mir. It's funny that Mir thinks he can beat Fedor. Everyone thinks they can beat Fedor, until they fight him.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
agrajag said:
Fedor is a much more explosive fighter than Mir. It's funny that Mir thinks he can beat Fedor. Everyone thinks they can beat Fedor, until they fight him.
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It's very similar with Anderson Silva. Look at almost any pre-fight interview from the guys fighting him, and it's always "nobody ever goes up and tries to hit him. I'm going to go up to him and hit him."

Bit easier said than done.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Zeke said:
If Fedor would beat Lesnar who would be able to pose a threat to Fedor? Carwin, Velasquez, Mir? Or would Dana try and bring in Arlovski for a shot?
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Randy Couture. I'm sure he'd even beat Lesnar if he gets a second chance. Couture's the best heavyweight when it comes to making a gameplan and executing it, and he didn't know enough about Lesnar to really humble him.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
UFC 100 payouts


I'm always stunned at how low some of these are.

Only 45K to Frank Mir. Jesus.


Brock Lesnar -- $400,000 (no win bonus)
def. Frank Mir –- $45,000

Georges St. Pierre –- $400,000 (including $200,000 win bonus)
def. Thiago Alves –- $60,000

Dan Henderson –- $350,000 (including $150,000 win bonus, $100,000 knockout bonus)
def. Michael Bisping –- $150,000

Jon Fitch -- $90,000 (including $45,000 win bonus)
def. Paulo Thiago –- $8,000

Yoshihiro Akiyama –- $160,000(including $20,000 win bonus, $100,000 fight of night bonus)
def. Alan Belcher –- $119,000 (including $100,000 fight of night bonus)

Mark Coleman –- $100,000 (including $50,000 win bonus)
def. Stephan Bonnar –- $25,000

Jim Miller -- $22,000 (including $11,000 win bonus)
def. Mac Danzig -- $20,000

Jon Jones –- $18,000(including $9,000 win bonus)
def. Jake O'Brien –- $13,000

Dong Hyun Kim –- $58,000 (including $29,000 win bonus)
def. T.J. Grant -- $5,000

Tom Lawlor –- $116,000 (including $8,000 win bonus and $100,000 submission bonus)
def. CB Dollaway –- $14,000

Shannon Gugerty –- $10,000(including $5,000 win bonus)
def. Matt Grice -- $7,000
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Randy Couture. I'm sure he'd even beat Lesnar if he gets a second chance. Couture's the best heavyweight when it comes to making a gameplan and executing it, and he didn't know enough about Lesnar to really humble him.
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Man. Fedor vs Randy should've happened a long time ago. Could've been really, really good.

2s9q1r6.jpg


epi3bb.jpg


2vuhcgk.jpg


2u4mv10.jpg


The two are really good pals, too. I recall Fedor once saying that he actually isn't all that eager to fight Randy because he doesn't like fighting people who he likes and is friends with. I don't think he and Barnett wanted to fight each other either, since they're also good pals, but they pretty much have to.

Stoney Mason said:
UFC 100 payouts


I'm always stunned at how low some of these are.

Only 45K to Frank Mir. Jesus.
Click to expand...

Ouch. And only 8k for Paulo Thiago who was on the main card.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Well let's be real, he isn't a draw. You put Mir vs Kongo on the next card and no one gives a shit.

He should have gotten more for this particular fight though only because he was coming off a win against Nog.
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Stoney Mason said:
UFC 100 payouts


I'm always stunned at how low some of these are.

Only 45K to Frank Mir. Jesus.
Click to expand...
Mir made far more than that, from what I understand he's still under a pretty old contract and so his basic pay isn't all that great. UFC gives out loads of bonuses and the like, and factor in potential PPV cut he'll of made a nice wage for the fight. In his first fight with Lesnar he got paid $85k from one sponsor for a logo on his shorts.
WickedAngel said:
What the fuck? How does Michael Bisping get paid more than Frank Mir?
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Because he's worth more to the company than Mir, the UFC is trying to build up the brand in the UK and having a popular fighter helps, and he must have a great manager.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Stoney Mason said:
UFC 100 payouts


I'm always stunned at how low some of these are.

Only 45K to Frank Mir. Jesus.
Click to expand...

Too add to that

A few disclaimers regarding the salaries can be found below. However, it's also worth noting that fighters such as Lesnar and St. Pierre also earn a portion of the pay-per-view revenue. In fact, Lesnar reportedly will make approximately $3 million from the fight even before the majority of his sponsorship money is tallied.
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http://mmajunkie.com/news/15498/ufc...erre-top-earners-from-x-x-million-payroll.mma
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
For some of these guys I have to think Strike Force is a better proposition. Not that strikeforce is paying better because they aren't but you could go to that promotion and be top dog and champion and make at least champion's money on the StrikeForce scale. And in Mir's case not take more ass beating like that one against Brock.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
LOL @ Bisping's pay. Holy shit. What the fuck he has ever done?
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Has to be the reality show. Not that I'm saying it's right, but his pay there is probably based on the visibility he got from TUF and his status as a UK fighter.
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Mir made something like 2 million dollars saturday, so don't feel that bad for him.

Main and Co main events get a cut of PPV, like $2 a buy.
 
A

abstract alien

Member
Stoney Mason said:
UFC 100 payouts


I'm always stunned at how low some of these are.

Only 45K to Frank Mir. Jesus.
Click to expand...
Wow, thats a pretty lean cut for Frank, whats the source for it? Not that I doubt you, I just wanted to read the whole article if there was one.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
Ikuu said:
Mir made far more than that, from what I understand he's still under a pretty old contract and so his basic pay isn't all that great. UFC gives out loads of bonuses and the like, and factor in potential PPV cut he'll of made a nice wage for the fight. In his first fight with Lesnar he got paid $85k from one sponsor for a logo on his shorts.
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Yeah, I would certainly hope so after all the smack he was talking to sell this PPV. If a measly $45K was all that was in it for him, I would have just said that "Brock is a fierce competitor. I look forward to a clean fight. End interview."
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Sinatar said:
Mir made something like 2 million dollars saturday, don't feel that bad for him.

Main and Co main events get a cut of PPV, like $2 a buy.
Click to expand...

That makes a lot more sense. Why no winning bonus for Brock, though, when GSP got one despite the PPV cut?
 
Brian Fellows

Brian Fellows

Pete Carroll Owns Me
abstract alien said:
Wow, thats a pretty lean cut for Frank, whats the source for it? Not that I doubt you, I just wanted to read the whole article if there was one.
Click to expand...


Probably MMAjunkie. They get the numbers from the commission. But these are only the disclosed payouts. Some of these guys make alot more.

Zeliard said:
That makes a lot more sense. Why no winning bonus for Brock, though, when GSP got one despite the PPV cut?
Click to expand...

Some people just get a flat fee. Cro Cops first contract was like that too.
 
B

BamYouHaveAids

Member
Stoney Mason said:
For some of these guys I have to think Strike Force is a better proposition. Not that strikeforce is paying better because they aren't but you could go to that promotion and be top dog and champion and make at least champion's money on the StrikeForce scale. And in Mir's case not take more ass beating like that one against Brock.
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I don't know. I don't see Mir beating Werdrum or Overeem. I think it would be better for him in the UFC, I'm sure when he resigns he will be getting more.

Zeliard said:
That makes a lot more sense. Why no winning bonus for Brock, though, when GSP got one despite the PPV cut?
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Some guys like Chuck, Randy, and Tito make the same win or lose, instead of having to win to get full pay.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Any way to watch the Jon Jones fight? He's always entertaining to watch, because you know he's either going to hit someone with a flashy move or get knocked the hell out for trying one :lol
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Brian Fellows said:
Some people just get a flat fee. Cro Cops first contract was like that too.
Click to expand...

BamYouHaveAids said:
Some guys like Chuck, Randy, and Tito make the same win or lose, instead of having to win to get full pay.
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Ah, gotcha. I wonder why GSP doesn't get that same treatment at this point. Not a big enough draw?
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Zeliard said:
Ah, gotcha. I wonder why GSP doesn't get that same treatment at this point. Not a big enough draw?
Click to expand...

He's a huge draw, he's just probably mid contract. Once he finishes off his current contract he'll probably start pulling a flat fee.
 
B

Boogie

Member
Stoney Mason said:
Tito almost certainly will be signing with Strikefore relatively soon or by next year. He's said as much.
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:lol

Come on, Stoney. Tito has said a LOT of shit over the years. You can't believe a gawdamned thing that comes out of his mouth.

But for the record, the Strikeforce Pres has said on the record refuting Tito's claims about being close to signing with them.

Druz said:
Fedor fights hasbeens and people who are just bad matchups for him. He's definitely brutal but I think his skill is blown out of proportion.
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Yawn.

DD-11 said:
Fitch isn't a striker, and he didn't strike with BJ until he was done.
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Sure, Fitch is a striker. And IIRC, he struck with BJ in round two. Or at least, I seem to recall Jackson telling GSP to kickbox him in round 2.

Of course, BJ was "done" the moment he entered the cage in that fight. :lol


He didn't strike with sera either. I'm not saying he isn't great or that he lays and prays, because he is great and he doesn't lay and pray, but that doesn't mean that he's an interesting fighter to watch.
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Whatever. I simply cannot comprehend the opinion that GSP is boring to watch. Seriously, how can you be a fan of the sport and not find GSP exciting?

My friends asked me who I thought was going to win, and I said he's going to gsp him, ie. take him down every chance he gets. It's a smart strategy and he executes it well, but we've seen it a half a dozen times and it's dull.
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Again, absurd. One fighter scored a knockdown standing in that fight. It wasn't Alves.

That said, no one has been able to go 5 rounds with gsp and take as little damage as Alves did. It was incredible. No one has been able to get up every single time either. That guy is a monster and is only going to get better.
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Yep, Alves proved his toughness and cardio, I'll grant him that.

Rur0ni said:
Oh so Fedor's contract is up after next fight? Affliction trying to renew a lock till 2012? UFC gotta jump on that.
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It's not so much that Fedor's contract is up, that Affliction will be dead after their next event. :lol

SolidSnakex said:
If the amount Affliction pays fighters is true (800k for Sylvia to fight Fedor?) they'll go under before 2012.
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Naw, even money bet they don't make it to 2010. 2012 is a pipe dream.

Asbel said:
I believe Nevada has started random testing during a fighters training.
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They are supposed to be doing so, but no fighters for UFC 100 were subject to the random testing.

mujun said:
He'll also lose some of his magic because he'll finally fight more consistent competition more consistently.

Then Pride nuthuggers will have to find some new darling.
Click to expand...

Arlovski. Sylvia. Nog x2. Crocop. Hunt. Coleman x2. Herring. Being essentially undefeated over his entire 9 year career.

Fedor is not a "darling." Fedor is the King of MMA.

Fersis said:
fedorrandlemanfinish.gif

How the hell is that legal ? He could broke the guys arm.
·____·

EDIT:Its broke or brake? Broken English FTL!
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:lol

Are you for real? :lol

charsace said:
Don't worry guys Roger Gracie will demolish Fedor and Lesnar and this argument won't matter.
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haha, funny man.
 
M

mujun

Member
Boogie said:
Arlovski. Sylvia. Nog x2. Crocop. Hunt. Coleman x2. Herring. Being essentially undefeated over his entire 9 year career.
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Point is, he isn't invincible. Pound for pound one of the best if not the best in the world, sure. Unbeatable, no.
 
B

Boogie

Member
Timedog said:
Ugh. Boogie is the worst part about GAF MMA threads.
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Cry.

charsace said:
Roger Gracie is on the way to beat Fedor + Lesnar. His grappling is so good that he tells people how he is going to sub them and does it. Dude won a grappling championship and beat everyone he faced with the same sub for the lol's.
Click to expand...

Roger Gracie has an MMA record of 2-0. Might as well post raving about how Pe de Pano is going to take the MMA world by storm. Or Marcelo Garcia.

mujun said:
Point is, he isn't invincible. Pound for pound one of the best if not the best in the world, sure. Unbeatable, no.
Click to expand...

How can you say that he's not unbeatable? Has he been beaten?
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
mujun said:
Point is, he isn't invincible. Pound for pound one of the best if not the best in the world, sure. Unbeatable, no.
Click to expand...

Until he's actually beaten, with 30 wins he is unbeatable. You don't seem to grasp how far ahead of the curve Fedor actually is.
 
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