Shmunter
Member
Haha, no need for offence. The games are super flawed but have a dedicated interest group.
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The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically
- Thread starter sonomamashine
- Start date
amstradcpc
Member
Or Ultima VII, a game from the 386 era.
brian0057
Banned
Oh, I'm not insulting you. I'm just surprised. I can't stand those games.
If you like them, don't let me stop you. More power to you.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I haven’t seen “evidence” or anything whatsoever. I’ve seen seen hype speak, speculation, and hopeful expectations from armchair experts. I’ve seen the same tweets referenced dozens of times, the same vague quote referenced dozens of times, the same slide from a GDC presentation autopsied dozens of times. I have not seen a shred of proof that the SSD alone will make games look better, that the SSD alone will make assets higher quality.
What I know is that you can be able to stream 400,000,000 terabytes of 64k resolution textures and it won’t matter if your cpu and gpu aren’t powerful enough to render the scene competently
If this is your hill to die on, so be it. I hope you don’t disappear a year from now if DF breakdowns of next-gen games reveal you’ve been wrong this whole time. I’ll admit I’m wrong, I’m wrong all the time.
Also, pretending like the XsX SSD isn’t fast enough to do “amazing new things” as well next gen, when you’re so adamant that the PS5 SSD is a world changer, is disingenuous at best.
archangelmorph
Member
Nope...
Not sure about the very first game to do it but the earliest free-roaming open world game I played was called Hunter on the old Amiga/Atari.
Hunter (video game) - Wikipedia
It even had a very broad selection of vehicles you could pilot, from jeeps to tanks, to boats, to wind-surfers.
That game was seriously ahead of its time (released in 1991).
CJY
Banned
Sure, there are earlier examples than Mario 64. Just that Mario 64 might be the most well known and popular one. Thanks for the link!Nope...
Not sure about the very first game to do it but the earliest free-roaming open world game I played was called Hunter on the old Amiga/Atari.
Hunter (video game) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It even had a very broad selection of vehicles you could pilot, from jeeps to tanks, to boats, to wind-surfers.
That game was seriously ahead of its time (released in 1991).
Liljagare
Member
Nope...
Not sure about the very first game to do it but the earliest free-roaming open world game I played was called Hunter on the old Amiga/Atari.
Hunter (video game) - Wikipedia
It even had a very broad selection of vehicles you could pilot, from jeeps to tanks, to boats, to wind-surfers.
That game was seriously ahead of its time (released in 1991).
Carrier command had the freeroam too, 1988.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Wth?? Have you not been on these boards for the last year? Ask the people on these boards who is the most reliable insider on GAF? You think the mods gave me this title just for shits and giggles?
I DO know whether future exclusives will come to the PC. I verified HZD months ago.. and even another exclusive that people just so conveniently ignored. You guys are in for the shock of your lives..
Skyr
Member
Here is your problem bro: You look at this whole ordeal from an unbiased perspective.
These people are too far gone to argue with. They have streched the definition of "evidence" to fit their beliefs.
I for one am waiting for actual showcases that demonstrate me the mighty power this "revolutionary" tech.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
No one's saying the ssd alone.
True but as has been said spiderman could have easily used higher resolution textures but it didn't because it was limited by hdd. Also next gen consoles can likely run current gen games at 120+fps sub4k, so they have the overhead performance for vastly better assets at 30 and 60 fps. But those assets are likely to take more memory, and hence ssd.
devilNprada
Member
A modern remake of Daggerfall ... Now that's an Idea!
martino
Member
you have even less way to know 9gb/s will be mandatory even for ps5 exclusive.....
you wish it for warring reason but that's all.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Have you ever brought a 3D scene through the entire graphics pipeline? You don't need to have the entire city into RAM when you can only see but a short distance. The triangles of the scene will be clipped for any part of the scene that is behind the camera. This was very successful in H:ZD for the PS4. They gave a great demonstration for that. I would never try to load 100Gb of data into memory when I'm not seeing all of the data. I would only need a fraction of whatever makes my GPU target a framerate. Even film doesn't do such a wasteful management of memory.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
suppose there are 10GB of unique data for one area of the city in ram, but a nearby area has 10GB of different assets, and another area 10GB, etc. With the ps5 it may take you a few seconds to reach the other area, and it'd load instantly. But on PC's with hdds no such luck. That's why I said if you can quickly access any part of the city, you might need it in ram as even a minute of travel might not be enough time to stream from an hdd.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Diddy X
Member
Even if you can fast-travel and such, well I can imagine it would make a smoother experience but:
1st, we'll see how many games are actually "loading time free" and
2nd, the XsX's SSD is not too far away from PS5's, I see the only way it could really make a difference is if a game is so dependant on fast loading that it wouldn't be possible on XsX, otherwise developers will find a way to make experiences equally good or in the worst cases without any significant diference.
1st, we'll see how many games are actually "loading time free" and
2nd, the XsX's SSD is not too far away from PS5's, I see the only way it could really make a difference is if a game is so dependant on fast loading that it wouldn't be possible on XsX, otherwise developers will find a way to make experiences equally good or in the worst cases without any significant diference.
Alphagear
Member
Doesn't mean ALL of them are coming unless Sony is stupid enough to kill its own brand and flush 25 years of hard work down the toilet.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I never said ALL of them. But I can say the better ones (which is more than enough) which will make you wonder.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
As I said, if the city has 10GB areas and is 100+GB total, you either cache the 100GB which will take like nearly 20minutes, or you'll be bottlenecked by hdd speeds in pcs with hdds.
Senua
Member
Gran Turismo plz
Alphagear
Member
I would be worried for Sony if they were stupid enough to release every exclusive on pc day 1. That would be disastrous to an extent ensuring no one on pc switches to playstation and many switching to pc.
On the other hand, the average person isnt gonna build a pc which will cost more and wait a few years to play a couple of ps exclusives. Not gonna happen.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Your conversation is like talking to someone who really hasn't had any experience but has read a few articles here and there and trying to make an argument with a professional that has actually coded a lot of this stuff. You believe what you want. Just look for analysis of the games when they release.
sendit
Member
Texture size has little to do with TF performance. This is a memory limitation.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I'm telling you first hand that you won't have to wait years for any exclusive coming out for the PC. Every studio develops on a PC in tandem with a console. Any length of time waiting would be for bureaucratic reasons, not for starting a port from scratch. They will follow the example of Death Stranding. Code for that game was complete already on the PC.
Senua
Member
Hardly anyone switches between consoles and PC's bro. This is for people who are already PC gamers init.
Alphagear
Member
L
If that happens I might switch back to PC only gaming.
Looks like Sony isnt as smart as Nintendo.
Its the exclusive games which gives them consistent hardware sales every generation.
Lets wait and see.
If that happens I might switch back to PC only gaming.
Looks like Sony isnt as smart as Nintendo.
Its the exclusive games which gives them consistent hardware sales every generation.
Alphagear
Member
I would switch to PC only if those exclusives came day 1.
Already applies to Microsoft.
Only console I would need is from Nintendo.
Senua
Member
Most console gamers will never switch to PC, and Sony will make more money from selling their games on PC than the little they lose with hardcore guys switching to PC from PS.
hyperbertha
Member
Why would they not use all the hardware at their disposal to make the best games possible?
hyperbertha
Member
I actually haven't been on GAF for a year. If this is true I apologize and it sounds like you do have information about first party titles others aren't privy too. If Sony is going to port their exclusives to PC, the PC versions will have NVME SSDs as a minimum requirement. Or they could just release a PC port without the benefits that SSDs provide, but this would mean their game doesn't have any design benefits that SSDs can provide, only visual benefits, which is a bad way of going about it. A third (and retarded) way of going about it would be to just make games as normal, targeted to HDD speeds so that average PCs can run them too, which I don't see happening. Am I wrong?
hyperbertha
Member
CJY
Banned
"make you wonder" is a big difference to "shock of your lives". I'm looking forward to more PS games coming to PC but:
Andrew House, Former Chair of Sony Interactive Entertainment, 2016:
Hermen Hulst, Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios, 2020:
VFXVeteran, Some Dude on NeoGAF, 2020:
Hm... Who to believe?
Andrew House, Former Chair of Sony Interactive Entertainment, 2016:
Hermen Hulst, Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios, 2020:
VFXVeteran, Some Dude on NeoGAF, 2020:
Hm... Who to believe?
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martino
Member
they will do but it don't means the 9gb/s will be mandotatoy if there is a bootleneck elsewhere.
hyperbertha
Member
I just mentioned that as the maximum. There may be games that only use 8 or 7.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
The microsoft flight simulator has maps with 2TB of data. The idea of a game using 100+GB for its overworld is not unreasonable, nor the idea of being able to reach any part of the overworld quickly with flight or driving.
edit: Wouldn't surprise me if there are demos or making of documentaries showing with and without ssd how the games would look. Or at least comments from dev.s like the one from the exnaughty dog dev. which essentially said the same thing I'm saying.
To paraphrase, even current gen we could've had lifelike detail in game objects, but they can't keep the highest detail for all objects in memory. That doing worlds with such high fidelity would present complexities of its own.
Some PCs can have 128+GB.
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martino
Member
or none above 6 or even less...we don't know
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farmerboy
Member
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You guys keep saying, "XSX SSD is fast enough" when you know SSD is much faster. That's like me saying PS5 has a fast enough GPU when we know XSX has a better GPU and it can do more. However, the SSD is MUCH faster and can do more.
Don't try to pretend they're basically the same when it's obvious the PS5 SSD is capable of doing more.
There's a reason why people are saying the extra speed will be used for mostly first party titles because the XSX SSD is slower.
No one is saying this.
People are posting the Spider-Man GDC presentation because it walks about streaming data. If you're streaming data, you're still limited by what you can put on screen due to GPU, CPU and Memory limitations.
But as shown in the Spider-Man video, they were limited by streaming speed of the HDD. They had to delay textures from being loaded to keep u with Spider-Man's speed.
For the most part, the delay of streaming data would not happen if they were using an SSD.
But you guys who are downplaying the impact of the SSD think a regular HDD would be fast enough to stream high quality assets. That's just not true.
hyperbertha
Member
I can assure you any first party AAA title worth its salt will make a very good use of the SSD.
hyperbertha
Member
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Here's your problem, and with several people on this thread.
You guys are saying it will do nothing but provide faster loading times.
Devs are saying it will help the the level of detail being streamed in and out of games.
But somehow you guys know more than them and the entire AMD presentation was fake.
The fact that you guys keep saying, "It will not reduce the gap in GPU performance" or "It will do nothing but load games faster" just goes to show you that you guys are not comprehending of what other people are posting or you just choose to ignore facts that it will provide more than just faster load times.
I rather be well informed instead of ignoring clear facts.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
But I get it guys.
They put the SSD into consoles just to save load times. That's it. PS5 will load into games at 2 seconds and the XSX 4 seconds. That's the only difference.
Digital Foundry, Developers are all lying when they said it will help increase detail of video games. AMD's comparison video was nothing more than pre-recorded footage and altered.
HDD is fast enough to stream data and it will stream it as fast as an SSD for video games.
They put the SSD into consoles just to save load times. That's it. PS5 will load into games at 2 seconds and the XSX 4 seconds. That's the only difference.
Digital Foundry, Developers are all lying when they said it will help increase detail of video games. AMD's comparison video was nothing more than pre-recorded footage and altered.
HDD is fast enough to stream data and it will stream it as fast as an SSD for video games.
So you would rather play multiplats on pc but since theres, like 5 good exclusives on sony, you invest $500 into a ps5 instead.
A few exclusives seems like a weird way to decide on two platforms that are so vastly different. If the argument was sony vs ms i could see the exclusives being important but not sony v pc.
hyperbertha
Member
There's more like twenty on PS4. I think that's enough to invest 500 dollars into a system. Some people play less than twenty games the entire generation.
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It's almost like you're describing streaming
VFXVeteran
Banned
It's almost like you're describing streaming
I am describing streaming. There is nothing wrong with streaming. All I'm saying is that you can buffer a lot of data into PC RAM thereby mitigating the need to have a faster I/O bandwidth.
Alphagear
Member
Theres alot more than 5 exclusives on playstation. If you include the jrpgs theres even more. Personally there have been times when i have purchased a console just for 1 game. OG xbox just for Halo for example.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I think most people are only interested in the handful of powerhouse PS exclusives
TLoU
Uncharted
Spiderman
God of War
Horizon: Zero Dawn
ZywyPL
Banned
Link please.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
People are referencing this video because it's a perfect example of data streaming.
There are clear limiting factors in play while data is being streamed. One of the limiting factors is the HDD speed for streaming assets.
If the quality assets in cease for next gen, how would streaming from HDD be able to keep up?