Alphagear
Member
Yes but theres more than 5 big exclusives. Bloodborne, Gran Turismo, Infamous, Ghosts of tsushima, Dreams, Ratchet and Clank, Last Guardian and Persona 5 to name a few more.
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The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically
- Thread starter sonomamashine
- Start date
VFXVeteran
Banned
Aside from Bloodborne (which is really a one-off and if it was remade would go to all platforms), the other exclusives aren't as big as the ones I listed.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
PlayStation 5 exclusives im looking forward to -
- Days Gone 2
- Ghost of Tsushima 2
- God of War 2
- Horizon Zero Dawn 2
- Ratchet & Clank 2
- Spider Man 2
- Uncharted 5 / Lost Legacy 2
- New IP's depending on the genre/perspective
Xbox Series X exclusives im interested in and looking forward to seeing more of -
- Everwild
- Gears 6
- Gears Tactics (console version)
- Halo Infinite
- Hellblade 2
- Playground's action RPG
- Obsidian's AAA next gen RPG
- InXile's AAA next gen RPG
- The Initiative's next gen project
- Days Gone 2
- Ghost of Tsushima 2
- God of War 2
- Horizon Zero Dawn 2
- Ratchet & Clank 2
- Spider Man 2
- Uncharted 5 / Lost Legacy 2
- New IP's depending on the genre/perspective
Xbox Series X exclusives im interested in and looking forward to seeing more of -
- Everwild
- Gears 6
- Gears Tactics (console version)
- Halo Infinite
- Hellblade 2
- Playground's action RPG
- Obsidian's AAA next gen RPG
- InXile's AAA next gen RPG
- The Initiative's next gen project
RCU005
Member
Digital Foundry don't know shit about development. They are journalists that do comparisons that many people can do with the right tools. Tools that are expensive, so they are able to buy them.
You can't believe Digital Foundry right now anything about Xbox and PS5 because they are the PR for Microsoft right now. They can say, and swear that they are being impartial, but of course they're not! They can't! They are getting money from Microsoft!
They are trying to downplay the SSD because it's the only thing they have a clear advantage over Microsoft!
I don't get why people still consider them good. Their time should've been up when PS3/360 era was over.
You can't believe Digital Foundry right now anything about Xbox and PS5 because they are the PR for Microsoft right now. They can say, and swear that they are being impartial, but of course they're not! They can't! They are getting money from Microsoft!
They are trying to downplay the SSD because it's the only thing they have a clear advantage over Microsoft!
I don't get why people still consider them good. Their time should've been up when PS3/360 era was over.
Stuart360
Member
Getting the excuses in early for the DF Face Offs next gen already are ya?, what a load of bollocks.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
What are the big powerhouse exclusives on PC?
VFXVeteran
Banned
You mean games that are ONLY on PC?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Yes, it was in jest.
You can reduce the argument to only "powerhouses" mattering, but the truth is that something like 20% of all PSN revenue is for an exclusive. They've become a huge studio house and have a very important role to play for their ecosystem.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I'm not downplaying the exclusives for their role is bringing value to Sony. I'm just saying that not every exclusive is a blockbuster and wouldn't make financial sense to release them all to the PC. Tell ERA I said hello and that I was right all along.
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Every console generation whatever portion of the PlayStation hardware that is a perceived advantage gets overhyped as the next thing to revolutionize game development,
And everytime it amounts to not much of anything.
This is just SSDs turn as GDDR5 was last gen and “The Cell” the gen before that.
Games will improve on next gen because everything has improved, the SSD is just part of that package, and more a solution to the most crippling bottleneck of last gen, than something that’s gonna change gaming as we know it.
And everytime it amounts to not much of anything.
This is just SSDs turn as GDDR5 was last gen and “The Cell” the gen before that.
Games will improve on next gen because everything has improved, the SSD is just part of that package, and more a solution to the most crippling bottleneck of last gen, than something that’s gonna change gaming as we know it.
Alphagear
Member
Well thats your opinion not a fact. Playstation has more than 5 exclusives. I could argue that Gran Turismo is Biggest. Persona 5 not big enough? Last Guardian? Those titles might not be the biggest in your eyes but are BIG exclusives in their own right.
Shmunter
Member
Just chiming in, fill rate determines drawing textures onto the environment. Of which PS5 is looking likely to have more performance than xsx. This likely why Cerny likes the higher clock. More accessible assets and more capable GPU in such scenarios.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Just chiming in, fill rate determines drawing textures onto the environment. Of which PS5 is looking likely to have more performance than xsx. This likely why Cerny likes the higher clock. More accessible assets and more capable GPU in such scenarios.
XSX has higher texture sampling processing power as the TMU’s are part of the CU cluster, are they not?
Shmunter
Member
Can’t argue that because I don’t fully know. I thought the ROPS were the influencer in basic texturing, but there could be more to it I can not deny it.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I'm not downplaying the exclusives for their role is bringing value to Sony. I'm just saying that not every exclusive is a blockbuster and wouldn't make financial sense to release them all to the PC. Tell ERA I said hello and that I was right all along.
I do not think all the exclusives need to be blockbuster, in some cases the ones that provide variety and prove some genres are viable for third parties are perhaps almost as if not more important (at least to me, I suspect to others too). As much as you want to gloat about the PC platform there is plenty more on the console experience I will keep choosing over
.
Shmunter
Member
Regarding Sony publishing to PC. Realistically it would be limited to current gen games. Games that have had their sales and aren’t doing anything anymore. A second round if you will.
PS5 sony games will use the ssd, proving their technical superiority is part of the Sony creed. They wouldn’t have released this ssd were they not prepared to utilise it.
These games built around the unique strengths on PS5 will likey not come to pc for a long long toime.
PS5 sony games will use the ssd, proving their technical superiority is part of the Sony creed. They wouldn’t have released this ssd were they not prepared to utilise it.
These games built around the unique strengths on PS5 will likey not come to pc for a long long toime.
eastwood333
Banned
Just chiming in, fill rate determines drawing textures onto the environment. Of which PS5 is looking likely to have more performance than xsx. This likely why Cerny likes the higher clock. More accessible assets and more capable GPU in such scenarios.
XSX is 12TF sustained at all times for devs to play with. PS5 is more like 9.2tf with the potential to temporarily boost to 10.2tf for the Michael Bay moments. However, the console will not be able to stay in boost reaching up 10.2 at all times without major heating issues,hence the variable clock addition.
Shmunter
Member
If both have the same amount of ROPS which is likely, the PS5 will actually have a higher fill rate. The rest of what you’ve written is pure conjecture and never said to be the case by anyone except for forum speculators without any knowledge. Indeed it’s the opposite of what was said by Sony.
Nothing to be embarrassed about.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
GPU: ACE’s + HW scheduler + command processor + caches + DMAC + Geometry Processor + N*Shader Engines
Shader Engine: 2*Shader Arrays
Shader : N*DCU + 4 RB(ROPS) + Triangle setup + L1 Cache + primitive processing unit
DCU: 2*CU + 2*4 Texture filtering units + 2*16 TMU’s + L0 cache
- ROPS scale per Shader Array
- In the diagram below they have 5 DCU’s (10 CU’s) per Shader Array... given previous limits they should be able to add 3 more DCU’s per Shader Array for a total of 8... which would give you 2*8*4 = 64 CU’s.
- We know XSX has 52 CU’s, 56 CU’s with 4 disabled... this means 28 DCU’s and thus it would likely be the configuration below with 7 DCU’s per Shader Array and yes it would mean the same number of Shader Arrays and the same number of ROPS between XSX and PS5.
RB are essentially the ROPS you see in nVIDIA parlance and they seem to be tied to the shader arrays. If you were to add one more Shader Array to a Shader Engine to add more DCU’s, you probably add more ROPS too.
It seems likely that the number of ACE’s is tied to the total number of Shader Arrays in that design, but I am not sure if you can add another Shader Array to a Shader Engine or if the structure is limited to a max of two Shader Arrays per Shader Engine.
Texture filtering and mapping units count seem scale with each DCU as they are part of the DCU (DCU is like the successor of GCN’s CU or better two compute units in one, you have many DCU’s per Shader Engine). AMD talks about DCU’s, but when they give CU count they seem to give the interns CU count. As you see above each DCU contains two CU’s and shared TMU’s, RT HW in RDNA2, etc...
Not sure how much logic is shared and how much is duplicated when we talk about 1 DCU = 2 CU’s. Anyways, see AMD calling the below configuration a 40 CU’s setup here:
RDNA white paper:
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Can you stop trolling like this for a sec lol? “Hey it is sunny outside” “oh yeah, but this has 12 TFLOPS!!!!”
Also, you are quite misinterpreting the way clockspeed will work and if you like this angle be prepared for people to start making arguments about how the few unlucky scenarios where the XSX is bottlenecked and unable to flex those 12 TFLOPS will suddenly become the only likely and super common scenarios... you will enjoy that and people saying 12 TFLOPS is a marketing gimmick designed to win a spreadsheet context.
See, while you may be reading that and start seeing red, it is the level of discussion you are bringing here.
eastwood333
Banned
Speaking the truth and laying out facts is not trolling.
I would argue that the SSD creating revolutionary things outside of loading content fast as being nothing more than a "marketing gimmick" to downplay the power disadvantage PS5 clearly has.
Again, not bashing,I'm getting both. But people like you are not going to try and dictate or suppress people for laying out facts by calling them trolls.
I see, thanks man I am still getting a ps5. How is Bleeding Edge? ... flopped hard at IGN with a 7 . ... image that on 12 TFlops. ... it will still be a flop. ... ROFL
eastwood333
Banned
Don't know, busy playing Ori Will of the Wisp (90 Metacritic score). Upset you it appears.
eastwood333
Banned
If both have the same amount of ROPS which is likely, the PS5 will actually have a higher fill rate. The rest of what you’ve written is pure conjecture and never said to be the case by anyone except for forum speculators without any knowledge. Indeed it’s the opposite of what was said by Sony.
Nothing to be embarrassed about.
You do not understand tech in the slightest. The PS5 can not run the GPU/CPU clocks at a sustained 2230Mhz without having significant heating issues. That's why they went with variable clocks. Devs can push the PS5 to the max 10.2tf only during the most stressful moments in a game,otherwise heating issues will occur. 9.2tf will be the target most of the time.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You cannot help it, more bashing disguised as truthing... You keep being you, when the shoe is on the other foot you will be shouting the SonyGAF victim card and rage against Sony trolls the same way: they will say the same thing about just laying down the facts and the cycle will continue.
You need thus WIN in all corners and cannot accept the consoles being closer than Scorpio and Neo or the older base consoles, it needs to be a bloodbath and PS5 must be inferior in every possible metric.
TL;DR: no, those are not facts.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Bold is “says you” though. PS5 has been designed with a constant power consumption / thermal profile in mind not variable speed based on the current temperature of the HW (do not play it under 42° degrees sun or inside a sauna though
).Based on the workload being run the CPU and GPU will be able to adjust clocks so that their combined workload does not exceed that budget... with the CPU being able to downclock first (GPU may have precedence with Smartshift unless the GPU is the one not doing enough work at the moment) and give some extra headroom to the GPU when needed so that the GPU can avoid downclocking.
CPU and GPU may downclock in some extreme scenarios, but If they play it well with Reducing voltage they can drop power budget usage a lot with effectively very small frequency drops.
The scenarios where the GPU may downclock low or far lower than the 9.2 TFLOPS target are when it is not requested to do work that needs the extra performance. Not sure beside dick measuring why it is important not to shut off unused units and lower clockspeed when there is not enough work to do: research the concept behind racing to sleep as strategy to keep power consumption down and have performance when you need it.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
So you know more than Cerny? Where's your proof that it cannot sustain that frequency?
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oh nooo ... teh genre defining 2d platforming from 90s hardware... yes you NEED 12 TFLOPS for that ...
This guy is a troll. He knows absolutely nothing...
Shmunter
Member
In your dreams. Lol
Kenpachii
Member
Bold is “says you” though. PS5 has been designed with a constant power consumption / thermal profile in mind not variable speed based on the current temperature of the HW (do not play it under 42° degrees sun or inside a sauna though
Based on the workload being run the CPU and GPU will be able to adjust clocks so that their combined workload does not exceed that budget... with the CPU being able to downclock first (GPU may have precedence with Smartshift unless the GPU is the one not doing enough work at the moment) and give some extra headroom to the GPU when needed so that the GPU can avoid downclocking.
CPU and GPU may downclock in some extreme scenarios, but If they play it well with Reducing voltage they can drop power budget usage a lot with effectively very small frequency drops.
The scenarios where the GPU may downclock low or far lower than the 9.2 TFLOPS target are when it is not requested to do work that needs the extra performance. Not sure beside dick measuring why it is important not to shut off unused units and lower clockspeed when there is not enough work to do: research the concept behind racing to sleep as strategy to keep power consumption down and have performance when you need it.
The whole power consumption is bullshit to cover up the 9,2tflops. why didn't they share the real number? why do they care about power consumption yet clock the GPU through the roof? exactly.
Eastwood is right, unless sony provides real numbers u could even assume its lower then 9,2 tflops because that's what u get when sony starts to bullshit there numbers.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sure...
. No console warring reasons to assume the worst for one company and the best for the other one. Remember when the 6.2 GFLOPS number came out for the EE and some people could only think about it in terms of “BS! It is just a theoretical peak... bottlenecks!!!!”, but we need to take 12 TFLOPS with room to spare and cal BS on other competitors because... uhm... ah yeah Phil .
VFXVeteran
Banned
I wouldn't call me talking about the PC merits as gloating.I do not think all the exclusives need to be blockbuster, in some cases the ones that provide variety and prove some genres are viable for third parties are perhaps almost as if not more important (at least to me, I suspect to others too). As much as you want to gloat about the PC platform there is plenty more on the console experience I will keep choosing over
PC isn't known for having exclusives. There isn't any money in that since everyone's PC can have an arbitrary configuration. The PC is meant to give the best results of any game that releases on it. And it does give the best results assuming you have the expensive hardware to run it.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I'm not sure how they can be the same when the Xbox has more cores - and by a significant amount.
hyperbertha
Member
So far all I've seen is you coming into this PS5 SSD thread and talk about how PC can run games better. You've deflected/ignored all arguments that remotely go technical, and say things like all Ps5 games can also run on all current PCs, 1. This thread isn't about PC. 2. PC ports will need to cater to the lowest common denominator. So even if YOU have a 100GB/s SSD it doesn't matter. 98 percent don't.
Shmunter
Member
How many rops do you think each?
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
We also don't know how much vram is available for ps5 games. In theory a game could use 12GB, and suddenly even a 2080ti ain't enough, you'd need a titan rtx.
This is interesting when it comes to this generation as it compares to the next.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
I'm here to make sure claims about hardware get mitigated if "opinion" is involved. If you guys (and I'm sure it will come up again and again) continue to try making the PS5/XSX have some advantage over more powerful hardware without any concrete proof, I'm going to call you on it. You make a thread be about the PC when you start mentioning the PC. I ran into this all last gen and I expect to go through it again this gen, with the exception that more exclusives will showcase on the PC. Hopefully that will bring perspective.
I'm not going to try stopping the Xbots because I realize tensions are high it's console warring. I'm not interested in that, but it just appears that the PS5 fans are putting up anything they can to argue about because the Xbots came down hard on the PS5 when specs were revealed. I get it.
Lastly, I'm going to call BS when I see it. I'm an insider and I do have information that most don't have. I was trolled for being a bully when I gave my sources information about the PS5 and then gave info on the exclusives. It's not my fault that the truth is not what people want to hear. For that my mouth is shut and people will have to wait for official releases. But don't mistake for a moment when I correct you that it's ONLY my opinion. It may very well be that I'm telling something that people shouldn't know about yet.
hyperbertha
Member
So in the end this is about you being offended over some people here saying PS5 games won't run on the average PC. That statement has some truth to it, you can't deny that.
VFXVeteran
Banned
If that statement has some truth to it, I would have been told it. I haven't. All I've heard is that the SSD is really fast and that there wasn't any current PC hardware like it - yet. I did NOT hear that it would stop releases of exclusives on the PC. I specifically asked about development on a console first and then on PC and that claim was quickly shot down with PC first then console. ALL the studios that have exclusives, not just some studios. That put a whole new light on the topic as I believed (like everyone else) that the development machines were just the devkits. I now know that's not the case and preached it over and over and over again. I got ignored and flamed for speaking such heresey.
I don't make this shit up. I do get verification. Even speaking about Hellblade demo being rendered on PC and captured on a XSX.
I understand the hype, but I'm here to try and bring reality so there are no disappointments like there was last gen.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
7 DCU’s Per Shader Array vs PS5’s 5, that is how.
The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically
I think most people are only interested in the handful of powerhouse PS exclusives TLoU Uncharted Spiderman God of War Horizon: Zero Dawn Yes but theres more than 5 big exclusives. Bloodborne, Gran Turismo, Infamous, Ghosts of tsushima, Dreams, Ratchet and Clank, Last Guardian and Persona 5 to...
So, 7 DCU/Shader Array * 2 CU/DCU * 2 Shader Arrays/Shader Engine * 2 Shader Engines/GPU = 56 CU’s / GPU... - 4 CU’s disabled to improve yields gives you a net total of 52 CU’s.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
7 DCU’s Per Shader Array vs PS5’s 5, that is how.
The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically
I think most people are only interested in the handful of powerhouse PS exclusives TLoU Uncharted Spiderman God of War Horizon: Zero Dawn Yes but theres more than 5 big exclusives. Bloodborne, Gran Turismo, Infamous, Ghosts of tsushima, Dreams, Ratchet and Clank, Last Guardian and Persona 5 to...www.neogaf.com
So, 7 DCU/Shader Array * 2 CU/DCU * 2 Shader Arrays/Shader Engine * 2 Shader Engines/GPU = 56 CU’s / GPU... 4 CU’s disable time improve yields gives you a net total of 52 CU’s.
I trust you. I'm not going to dig into trying to calculate that, but since you seem to be a hardware enthusiast could you calculate the actual ROP. I'm curious as to if the 2080Ti (clocked nowhere near the consoles frequency) compares to the next-gen consoles with regards to clocks. I know the 2080Ti has 96 ROPS.
hyperbertha
Member
How does this change anything? Isn't it common knowledge that all console games are developed on PC?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Average PC != Beefy Dev PC...
Also, as far as I know people have been using mixed devkit + PC based tooling since the PS1 days in various forms during the development cycle. Still, a big fan of worms that would derail the thread further.
I do get where you are coming from, $399 box vs $2-3K PC desktop potentially is what it is. You can fit 64-128 GB of fast RAM + various GB of VRAM on dev machines, of course you can brute force your way out of anything the consoles can throw at you, duh
, but unless you take an extremely niche approach on the market you cannot sell your titles just brute forcing your way out of it: consoles do not just pack sometimes new HW even before it gets super popular on PC, that is not where the advantage lies. It is the ability to give new API’s and breaking changes without worrying some old ass WIN32 app somewhere that may break and until the same API’s can be taken advantage of the burden of what you need to brute force (without just the copout modern PC devs do of leaving you to optimise their games and spend hours tweaking a laundry list of gfx and engine options
).
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Nope. Not here. People believe that PC actually gets ported from a console spec game. That's why people says "the PC port will take a long long time." It's not. It's already completed.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I know that man. You know I know that. Why are you giving me a hard time when I'm trying to be informative?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
A hard time?! Sorry if it felt like that mate. I understand trying to be informative and trying to help out and all that.
I guess it might be the PC Master race crap going on sometimes that makes me cautious about overhyping the PC platform in and of itself and the discourse around it tends to be misinformation about consoles and their place in the ecosystem.
You have a visible profile, you mention how connected and experienced you are in the field, happy for you, but with that the words you use are perhaps more important. Not that anyone has the right and duty to judge you. Thanks for posting and bringing your perspective though.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Kind of though same point as before. I know you know, but then you equate the beefy dev PC internal build with having the game ported on PC. There is an ocean of changes and testing an maybe even re-engineering you may have to do. You know that.
