SlavetodaBOX
Member
The last two sentences say it all...
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The PSP was ahead of its time. The Vita was behind the times.
- Thread starter jackissocool
- Start date
The last two sentences say it all...
Chill Penguin
Member
At the end of the day, whether people want to deny it or not, mobile is killing this market. The only reason 3DS is relatively successful is because Nintendo games are so unique and cannot be found anywhere else. Even there the 3DS is tracking to do about half the numbers if not less than what DS did. Nintendo can survive due to the strength of their first party. If Sony tries to release another handheld, it will be DOA. Luckily and smartly they seem to be shifting their focus to their PSNow service.
SlavetodaBOX
Member
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I still say they should have left out all the touch bullshit. Esp the back screen idiocy. If they wanted to use it as a "controller" with remote play they should have just put a real L2 R2 on it instead. I swear to god the rear touchpad was the result of someone sleeping with the Good Idea Fairy.
Front screen ok, I can deal with that but what the shit was the thought process that made them think a touch screen that not only you cant see, but use correctly due to your fingers constantly being near it as you are supporting the device a good idea?
Am seriously glad that most devs are not messing with that crap similar to how devs dropped use of the gyros with the sixaxis for the most part.
One thing is for sure with the Vita is that it has an AWESOME OS. Shit downloads and installs fast. Plus the Vita PSN store is fantastic.
Front screen ok, I can deal with that but what the shit was the thought process that made them think a touch screen that not only you cant see, but use correctly due to your fingers constantly being near it as you are supporting the device a good idea?
Am seriously glad that most devs are not messing with that crap similar to how devs dropped use of the gyros with the sixaxis for the most part.
One thing is for sure with the Vita is that it has an AWESOME OS. Shit downloads and installs fast. Plus the Vita PSN store is fantastic.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Kay then, what about:
Toukiden
Dynasty Warriors Next
VT4
UMvC3
Freedom Wars
Sonic Racing
Dragon's Crown ect.
ect. The only thing that doesn't run at Native Res are games originally built for other Hardware or games that attempt to do fancy console techniques that simply should not be done on a handheld. Some developers just suck though(whoever made SS). The OLED that they used is okay and the pretty much as low as you can go for a non shitty product. Anything with a lower resolution than 540p would have been a fucking disgrace.
I get all the complaints about the memory cards being proprietary, but Sony also had to do something about piracy. It's a tough situation. I was one of the only people I knew who had a psp that wasn't used to pirate games, and that was really disappointing. There's sales all the time on the memory, and just so you know, the cards are all sold at mark up, the retailers pocket 30+ dollars on a 32gb. I know because I used my employee discount to get mine for 50 bucks
graywolf323
Member
it's because people aren't comparing the Vita card prices to PSP card prices but instead to microSD
flatearthpandas
Member
You're saying only Pokemon and Mario appeals to me personally, or only those appeal to the handheld gamer?
Either one is false, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
The mura effect is pretty bad, considering it affects every unit to some degree and compromises what is allegedly a strength of having OLED in the first place (accurate blacks). The resolution is nice, but I still think OLED was a big mistake, especially when the cost gets factored in.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
Piracy was bad because the DS had sold well. The R4s weren't there at the beginning. Stuff like Brain Age helped sell the system to people who didn't own a GAme Boy.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
It's not even about piracy imo, about retailers making a profit. Stores like Gamestop make money off of two things, Software sales and Peripherals. Vita is a super digitally focused console with all game being released digitally day 1. Having all of your games on you at once is super compelling. Vita already has more people buying digital than probably any other console. I don't think stores make any significant amount of money off of Hardware so how would they make any kind of money off of the Vita without those extremely high markups on the memory cards? It also comes down to pure greed, Sony thought they could fuck people over with the memory cards.
Me too.
Is this year old image really going to get posted in every thread now
I think the Vita would have fared better without the stupid back touchpad, L2/R2, and being able to download your old ps1/ps2 games on it.
The propietary memory cards would have been fine if they didn't get greedy with the prices. It's a shame that such a great portable system is being hung out to dry.
The propietary memory cards would have been fine if they didn't get greedy with the prices. It's a shame that such a great portable system is being hung out to dry.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
In the West, what sales any significant amount of numbers that's not Mario, Pokemon or a Nintendo flagship franchise in general? And what types of games are you interested in? I hope it isn't super niche stuff that doesn't move any units(JRPGS).
They probably thought it would take off, OLED was all the rage back in 2010-2011. It's also the best screens for gaming imo.
Yes, and people are going to "LOL, THIS, nailed it" every time. Sometimes it feels like I´m browsing Reddit.
On topic of PSP behind ahead of its time: I recently bought a couple of cheap PSP games on the Vita, and man, some of those have aged really well. Soul Calibur looks brilliant, and I´m having a ton of fun with Midnight Club LA Remix. It´s amazing they could actually make a full-blown open city racing game on that platform. I also got Midnight Club DUB Edition, and it´s been released a few years earlier and has a pretty shitty framerate. LA Remix on the other hand runs much smoother and even has some dreamy bloom effect going on - it´s really quite impressive.
KojiKnight
Member
One game does not a good decision make.
Developers don't just "choose" not to use it... there are reasons. Let's assume the ONLY reason why every game isn't full screen is because it would have cost the developers more money to produce such a game... That is STILL a problem. Sony knows that developers aren't going to put major budgets into portable games. They would have known while they were making the hardware that this would be the case. They should have also extrapolated that the increase cost of manufacturering, the decrease in battery life, and the extra cost to develop fully for said system would not be worth it.
SkylineRKR
Member
Vita is a rare machine in that PSP games actually play better on it than on its original hardware.
Yeah Piracy.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
It's more than just one game and like I said before, 540p was barely tolerable when Vita came out, any lower and it would have been a fucking disgrace. No one even produces screens lower than 540p anymore.
Resident Evil Revelations also looks amazing on the 3DS and yet barely anything else comes even close to it.
Both handheld platforms are capable of much more than what most developers are willing to put into. Can´t say I blame them, but it is what it is.
test_account
XP-39C²
How much cheaper where Memory Stick Pro cards back around the PSP launch?
Its not true that Vita had zero advertising. It might depend on where you live though, but i saw several of Vita commercials on TV around the Vita launch here in Europe. I also saw some american commercial for MBL The Show 12, where they showed the cross-save function (play on PS3, then continue to play on the Vita later on).
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Talk to the NGage about having a phone integrated working for sales. I'm sure you'll find some really interesting stats.
The way I see it the Vita has three problems:
1. It's not doing so hot in Japan because of how big the mobile phone market is. People don't need/want another handheld when they already have Cell Phones with similar experiences.
2. It's not doing well in Western Countries (US or UK) because the is a lack of software and support from Devs. It's double edged since people won't buy a Vita without good software, but publishers won't make Vita games without consoles in the field
3. It's currently cool to hate the Vita on sites like GAF and Reddit. People who have never even seen a Vita irl consider it to be the worst handheld since Uncrustable. Unfortunately ignorance spreads, and it's very likely to have cost the Vita a small amount of sales.
The way I see it the Vita has three problems:
1. It's not doing so hot in Japan because of how big the mobile phone market is. People don't need/want another handheld when they already have Cell Phones with similar experiences.
2. It's not doing well in Western Countries (US or UK) because the is a lack of software and support from Devs. It's double edged since people won't buy a Vita without good software, but publishers won't make Vita games without consoles in the field
3. It's currently cool to hate the Vita on sites like GAF and Reddit. People who have never even seen a Vita irl consider it to be the worst handheld since Uncrustable. Unfortunately ignorance spreads, and it's very likely to have cost the Vita a small amount of sales.
nelsonroyale
Member
What is the time exactly?
Silvawuff
Member
Probably stating the obvious: It's not a matter of which device was ahead from a technical standpoint, but the fact support for both systems by Sony has been wacky/slow/hamfisted. I love my PSP and still use it today; I'd like a Vita eventually, but the cost, value, and support aren't there quite yet for me to dive in personally.
It has plenty of titles for it and with Gamemaker support it's going to stubbornly live for a while.
Me too.
But you're probably wanting something more... Polygonal, right?
flatearthpandas
Member
I'm still not sure what you're trying to say.
I'm saying that if I'm a handheld gamer and I feel like the Vita doesn't have the games I like to play, maybe that means Sony's focus with the Vita wasn't on the handheld gamer when, because smartphones are better media machines and ubiquitous in today's society, it should have been.
You seem to agree, whatever types of games you think handheld gamers like to play.
thechristoph
Sir!
There is no way in hell that I would buy a gaming handheld with a phone in it. That is just a bad idea; convergence for the sake of convergence. Is anyone on the planet going to say "Well I'm going to leave my smartphone's software ecosystem, abandoning all that I've already paid for and built up, for a videogame toy with phone gimmick added in, all for [the low-low price of however many hundreds of dollars decent smartphones sell for] and/or a new contract with a monthy fee?"
If anything, gaming handhelds need to have FEWER features than Sony wants to cram into them. Realize that the market for your $250 gaming device is the same market as the people who know what a "software ecosystem" is and don't make them have to choose their phone for your toy. Make the device as great for gaming as it can be, and if you can write trivial little apps for MP3 playing and video playing, then fine, but ain't nobody in the world buying a PS Vita so they can listen to their audiobook collection on it or whatever it can do.
If anything, gaming handhelds need to have FEWER features than Sony wants to cram into them. Realize that the market for your $250 gaming device is the same market as the people who know what a "software ecosystem" is and don't make them have to choose their phone for your toy. Make the device as great for gaming as it can be, and if you can write trivial little apps for MP3 playing and video playing, then fine, but ain't nobody in the world buying a PS Vita so they can listen to their audiobook collection on it or whatever it can do.
Not going to comment on the Vita part, the PSP was truly a machine ahead of it's time. I had a launch unit. I remember doing this in an age of no smartphones:
Surfing the net on the hacked Wipeout browser while using an outdoor wireless spot.
Clear videos on a portable. Not crappy cellphone resolution. I remember converting some warcraft 3 cinematics and squeezing it into a $50 32mb (yikes) memory card and wowing my friends.
Ridge Racer. The game to show off how much power the PSP has.
Swapping memory sticks to do the exploit and played Punchout.
The MP3 player. Converting songs to 64-128kbps just to fit into my 32mb card.
However, I feel the launch games are mostly misses. After Ridge Racer and Wipeout, the first real giant was GTA : LC. I remember an adhoc game where you play to infect other people with virus.
And yet, BR was still the right choice if you meant for your console to push the envelope. True, MS made due with only DVD-9 and that turned out to have been a wise decision for them, but that's true only because their success forced devs to work around DVD-9's limits.
In any case, as others have said, 540p is hardly an excessively high res and Killzone (and other native games) prove Vita can handle it. Sony obviously expected (or hoped) Vita's success would translate to more familiarity with hardware and more native res games. Sticking to lower specs isn't a clear cut recipe for success.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
LOL no it doesn't and I asked you before, what kind of games are you interested in?(that apparently aren't on Vita)
Good taste and good post. We often get too wrapped up in the games side of things on GAF, but UMD movies as well as music playback were a killer app around launch.
EDIT:
I think people saying "yeah but UMD sucked" or whatever are missing the point. PSP, even though it was a less well-designed system than Vita (even for the time it launched IMO), it had a much clearer vision that was better communicated, and more palatable to the masses. You guys have to remember that the ipod video just launched, and had a shitty like 1.5" screen, and then this came along.
sechsterangriff
Member
Except we can't know for sure you are representative of the "handheld gamer" or the Nintendo gamer. Sure, there's a huge overlap but they are not necessarily the same thing.
the op boils down to "it should also be a phone"
at best, they were things people toyed with for a week then dropped, except that one kid who just kept on using his PSP for media stuff and everyone made fun of him behind his back for it.
KojiKnight
Member
The original PSP firmware (up to like 3.xx) actually had a restriction on videos... They could only be (or maybe it was just played back in?) 352x240 or something like that. Well below native res, so they weren't exactly "clear". Only UMD videos were full resolution (though early hacks unlocked this, but I assume we are talking stock.)
One thing I'm wondering about is what happens to the handheld software market if Sony drops out of the running. Suddenly, games like Soul Sacrifice and Toukiden are provided with a choice: Go mobile, go next Nintendo handheld, go console, or go home. All of those are are risky. The console market is cramped and middleware unfriendly, the Nintendo handheld will have vicious competition from Nintendo's own franchises as well as others like Monster Hunter, and the mobile sector is always a huge gamble. I have a feeling a lot of franchises might die. There's also the way the Vita seems very much like the Dreamcast in its niche audience; is there a possibility of continued third party software support long into the future like there was for the Dreamcast?
You're of course using a huge amount of hyperbole here, but you're missing the point. See my edit above. I'll add that I worked in a gamestop in the shopping season in 2005 and got to see first hand how well the PSP was perceived by vastly different demographics, but especially 10-16 year old boys.
Actually, I'm happy with my Vita and with what's been released for it in retail, digital titles, and the PS+ freebies. Heck, I'd even say I favorite it over my 3DS.
Doesn't mean I can't deny how poorly it's doing though. So I joke about it to lighten the wound. As I do with most things anyway.
flatearthpandas
Member
It doesn't matter what games I'm interested in. That's just an opportunity for you to listwar me with Vita games in those genres that I already own or am not interested in for whatever reason.
If Sony is making good efforts to entice the handheld gamer, why are so few people buying the system? I primarily game on handhelds, I have owned a Vita for years, but I am not impressed with the amount or the quality of software that it has available for my tastes. I'm not looking to argue my tastes and I'm not looking for recommendations, I'm just presenting a possible theory, in conjunction with the OP's opinion of the Vita being "behind the times."
You yourself are the one who said handheld gamers only like Pokemon and Mario. My answer is that, if that is true, you agree that Sony isn't trying to appeal to the handheld gamer. Maybe in light of their sales, they ought to have been. Naturally they can't provide those exact titles, but they could make an effort to appeal to the same audience. Or, they could make an effort to appeal to people like me. People who don't care about Mario, aren't crazy about Pokemon, but still spend hundreds of dollars every year on handheld systems and software.
True, we can't really define the handheld gamer. All I can say is that I buy a lot of handheld games and primarily play on handhelds. I don't have the data to make a generalization, but we can follow how many people are buying which handhelds and make some assumptions from there.
RealDeadOne
Member
The problem with the Vita is it's a system made for the hardcore enthusiast crowd, or in other words, a system made for NeoGAF.
I personally wouldn't consider it a failure since it seems to be a big hit with that crowd, but obviously that's not big enough to support a console and Sony had much higher expectations.
At least we get to keep reaping the benefits while Sony flushes money down the toilet keeping it on life support! Tons of great Japanese games on this thing, it's the place to be if you're into importing.
I personally wouldn't consider it a failure since it seems to be a big hit with that crowd, but obviously that's not big enough to support a console and Sony had much higher expectations.
At least we get to keep reaping the benefits while Sony flushes money down the toilet keeping it on life support! Tons of great Japanese games on this thing, it's the place to be if you're into importing.
KojiKnight
Member
The irony being that it's quickly becoming the home of Indie titles that are too complex for most "mobile" platforms. I guess you could be hardcore about the indie scene too.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Back when PSP launched it was considered a jack of all trades, master of none device.
Easy piracy is what's responsible for its success.
Easy piracy is what's responsible for its success.
Exactly true. Looking at the newest issue of Famtisu, the Vita has more retail games in the upcoming release calendar than any other of the systems in the list).
Granted, number of releases isn't everything, but it is getting support there.
The Grim Heaper
Member
What? The Vita is behind the times?
KojiKnight
Member
Most of those are likely just the expansion of the PSP games (IE, a lot of VNs which isn't exactly great support). It'll fill the same kind of niche the PSP did in Japan, but with a lot stiffer competition from mobile.
KimonoNoNo
Member
The Vita was simply designed as the replacement to the Psp for Japan, that Sony just threw out onto the market elsewhere. By the time of the Vita the only mass market for the Psp was in Japan with the Monster Hunter craze, with the Western market (bar continental Europe) long having dried up. Even if Sony Japan had managed to secure exclusivity for Monster Hunter, the Vita would still be a very much niche product elsewhere in the world.
Fast forward to today, the 3ds is reaching saturation point in their strongest market and the Vita is becoming the otaku portable of choice much like it's predecessor. All the while the casual market for dedicated portables is being eaten up by mobile, with all the big Japanese publishers flocking to f2p bullshit.
Simply the Vita is a 70's muscle car in a post oil-crisis world.
Fast forward to today, the 3ds is reaching saturation point in their strongest market and the Vita is becoming the otaku portable of choice much like it's predecessor. All the while the casual market for dedicated portables is being eaten up by mobile, with all the big Japanese publishers flocking to f2p bullshit.
Simply the Vita is a 70's muscle car in a post oil-crisis world.