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[Garani]

Answer: you don't.

This is a trade-off that we will have to deal with later on during a console life. If in the past we could just swap storage and the hardware would still be viable, with the upcoming generation we will have to trow away a fully working console just because the SSD failed and is soldered on the motherboard.

Given that we have no idea of the life expectancy of the SSD solutions used by MS and Sony, I think this issue will bite us back with the used hardware market.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Consoles are the new phone motto. Buy and replace, never fix it. Imagine if your car battery died or the window motor stopped working, and you bought a new car because of it.

 

[Games Bookstore]

Back up to external / secondary drive regularly. Just like a PC. If the data is important, have some form of redundancy.

 

[Jigsaah]

Arent SSDs more durable than harddrives though? I mean not infallible as nothing is, but is there worry these things wont last until next-next gen?

 

[Garani]

Back up to external / secondary drive regularly. Just like a PC. If the data is important, have some form of redundancy.

there is more to it. The OS is on the SSD. If it goes bust the console won’t start. I don’t believe that you could transfer boot priority to the secondary drive.

Arent SSDs more durable than harddrives though? I mean not infallible as nothing is, but is there worry these things wont last until next-next gen?

They have a finite wear and tear based on write cycles. Back in the day it was quite an item of discussion.

 

[Barakov]

Shit. Didn't even think about this.

Arent SSDs more durable than harddrives though? I mean not infallible as nothing is, but is there worry these things wont last until next-next gen?

Yeah, usually. I'm not that tech savvy but if it's soldered onto the motherboard and it fails then I could see this being an issue. I'm hoping Sony and MS have thought about this.
EDIT : beaten by OP.

 

[Three]

there is more to it. The OS is on the SSD. If it goes bust the console won’t start. I don’t believe that you could transfer boot priority to the secondary drive.



They have a finite wear and tear based on write cycles. Back in the day it was quite an item of discussion.

The OS being on the SSD is no different to it being on the HDD, you can flash it, but wear levelling and write lifetime is a legitimate concern.

 

[[Sigma]]

Yes i'm actually worried about this. I'm going to try to make sure my warranty is on point.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Answer: you don't.

This is a trade-off that we will have to deal with later on during a console life. If in the past we could just swap storage and the hardware would still be viable, with the upcoming generation we will have to trow away a fully working console just because the SSD failed and is soldered on the motherboard.

Given that we have no idea of the life expectancy of the SSD solutions used by MS and Sony, I think this issue will bite us back with the used hardware market.

Where are you getting your information from? The new consoles are basically PCs and SSDs are easy to change. Never heard of either of em being solder in either.

there is more to it. The OS is on the SSD. If it goes bust the console won’t start. I don’t believe that you could transfer boot priority to the secondary drive.



They have a finite wear and tear based on write cycles. Back in the day it was quite an item of discussion.

The OS in the ps4 is also in the HDD. You usually download them from a website when you change motherboards also I'm already using a SSD on my Ps4 it is no different from a regular HDD when it comes to putting files in it. Again where are you getting this info from? Why wouldn't the new consoles have a recovery option built in like previous gens?

 

[Endless Fluff]

NAND has become much more durable over the past 10 years. The SSDs in the next gen consoles will be okay for decades unless you have fast enough internet to fill up the drive once a day, every day... for 2 years straight.

Take Samsung SSDs for example, their 1TB drives are rated for 600 TBW (terabytes written)... doesn't sound much at first, but do the math. You can write a (for a console) ridiculous 30TB a year and it would still take 20 years before you hit that limit, so even if the NAND in both consoles is cheap and only rated for 300TBW, that would still mean 10 years before it becomes unusable. It's more likely that other parts of the console fail before that, like capacitors or the BD drive.

 

[Night.Ninja]

I should of bought that Amazon 3 year warranty

 

[Games Bookstore]

there is more to it. The OS is on the SSD. If it goes bust the console won’t start. I don’t believe that you could transfer boot priority to the secondary drive.

In theory an SSD is less prone to fail than a traditional HDD due to no moving parts. Reality isn't always the case.

In saying that. You are correct, should the SSD (likely soldered to the motherboard) fail, you are going to need a new motherboard.

I would hope Sony and Microsoft have a decent strategy in place should such events occur. How quickly can they repair or replace your faulty console with a refurbished machine.

From there should be easy enough to restore your backup image (should you have one in the first place)

 

[A2una1]

Is it soldered to the mainboard?

 

[captainraincoat]

It will just mean that sony or ms wont be able to support the consoles as long past the next generation
The question will be which ssd internal drive will fail first

 

[MilkyJoe]

Meh... just buy another one

 

[Rentahamster]

Arent SSDs more durable than harddrives though? I mean not infallible as nothing is, but is there worry these things wont last until next-next gen?

SSDs don't have any moving parts, so they're already a step above HDDs in terms of potential points of failure. They're not invincible, but they're a helluva lot more durable.

They have a finite wear and tear based on write cycles. Back in the day it was quite an item of discussion.

The OS being on the SSD is no different to it being on the HDD, you can flash it, but wear levelling and write lifetime is a legitimate concern.

It's not a legitimate concern. Yes, there is a finite wear and tear based on write cycles. However, the average gamer will come nowhere near the limit over the lifetime of the console. The warrantied life span for a 1TB Samsung 970 EVO is 600 TB writes, and I assume the Series X and PS5 SSDs will be similar.

Samsung 970 EVO | Consumer SSD | Specs & Features | Samsung Semiconductor Global

Samsung 970 EVO delivers PCIe® Gen3 NVMe, M.2, and capacities ranging from 250GB to 2TB. Download 970 EVO firmware, driver, and more.

www.samsung.com

Assuming you actively use the console for 10 years, that's 164 GB of writes per day. Assuming the average next gen game is 50GB, that means you'd have to install and uninstall more than 3 games a day for 10 years before your SSD wears out.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Assuming you actively use the console for 10 years, that's 164 GB of writes per day. Assuming the average next gen game is 50GB, that means you'd have to install and uninstall more than 3 games a day for 10 years before your SSD wears out.

HEY!
We don't want no goddamn facts here!
We is concern trolling!

 

[GymWolf]

SSDs don't have any moving parts, so they're already a step above HDDs in terms of potential points of failure. They're not invincible, but they're a helluva lot more durable.



It's not a legitimate concern. Yes, there is a finite wear and tear based on write cycles. However, the average gamer will come nowhere near the limit over the lifetime of the console. The warrantied life span for a 1TB Samsung 970 EVO is 600 TB writes, and I assume the Series X and PS5 SSDs will be similar.

Samsung 970 EVO | Consumer SSD | Specs & Features | Samsung Semiconductor Global

Samsung 970 EVO delivers PCIe® Gen3 NVMe, M.2, and capacities ranging from 250GB to 2TB. Download 970 EVO firmware, driver, and more.

www.samsung.com

Assuming you actively use the console for 10 years, that's 164 GB of writes per day. Assuming the average next gen game is 50GB, that means you'd have to install and uninstall more than 3 games a day for 10 years before your SSD wears out.

Remember me to give you a couple of extra pumpkin seeds when we go home tonight.

 

[Garani]

You all are focusing on the MTBF of similar products. I am ok with that, and certainly things have vastly improved since the beginning.

But the issue remains: MS uses soldered SSD, and I expect Sony to have done the same. If the NANDs fail, you dump the whole console in the bin.

 

[JimboJones]

Who knows, maybe by then there will be solutions to replacing the flash chips like they replace chips or capacitors on old computers/cartridges/consoles etc.
But for the actual life of the console most people will use it for it's a non issue.
It reminds me on disc rot discussion, yes it happens and it's a concern but I still have 20+ year old PS1 discs that still work fine.

Where are you getting your information from? The new consoles are basically PCs and SSDs are easy to change. Never heard of either of em being solder in either.

The consoles included storage is most likely on the the motherboard and not replaceable.
It's either go that route or include 2 expansion bays which I don't see Sony doing but who knows.

 

[DJT123]

Arent SSDs more durable than harddrives though? I mean not infallible as nothing is, but is there worry these things wont last until next-next gen?

Not in my experience. I dropped a 360 controller on my exposed SSD & it died instantly.

 

[JimboJones]

Not in my experience. I dropped a 360 controller on my exposed SSD & it died instantly.

You ever expose a hard disk? Air molecules will cause it die instantly.

 

[GHG]

Unless the drive is soldered into the motherboard it will be a case of unscrewing the old drive and replacing it with a new one that fits the spec.

Even if it is soldered on, people will find a way.

Someone mentioned phones above, they can be fixed as well as long as you can be bothered to take it to the right place and don't listen to the bullshit the manufacturer will tell you.

 

[Skifi28]

we will have to trow away a fully working console just because the SSD failed and is soldered on the motherboard.

Do we know they are soldered or is that an assumption? I was under the impression the PS5 had an nvme slot so you can change drives yourself.

 

[JimboJones]

Do we know they are soldered or is that an assumption? I was under the impression the PS5 had an nvme slot so you can change drives yourself.

I think the assumption is that it has an nvme slot for expansion, like your not going to find a nvme ssd chip inside it that you can pop out when you buy one.
At least that's the assumption as it makes the most sense, could be wrong though!

 

[DJT123]

You ever expose a hard disk? Air molecules will cause it die instantly.

Never had problems with an HDD, but I didn't know that. Thought SSD's were more fickle with write limits and all that.

 

[JimboJones]

Never had problems with an HDD, but I didn't know that. Thought SSD's were more fickle with write limits and all that.

I was just having a bit of fun lol maybe not air but dust and contamination can kill them if they are exposed
I actually think it is a testament to how robust ssds are that they can ship on basically exposed circuits like nvme drives, where as the disk platter and spindle are always shrouded in a case prevent damage.

 

[Garani]

Do we know they are soldered or is that an assumption? I was under the impression the PS5 had an nvme slot so you can change drives yourself.

Xbox Series S/X have NANDs soldered directly on board.

Cerny mentioned that there will be an m.2 slot where you can add a NVME drive, but he also mentioned that those mass market drives do not have the same capabilities as the in house SSD. I speculate that Sony will use a soldered on board solution as well.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

So this is just all speculation then? I was thinking it was screwed on like most laptops but not soldered.

Xbox Series S/X have NANDs soldered directly on board.

Oof

 

[Endless Fluff]

Series X could be soldered, could also be screwed (the protrusion on the heat shield for the screw suggests as much)

We don’t know for sure

 

[Hudo]

Fuck you, buy a new console.

 

[JimboJones]

Series X could be soldered, could also be screwed (the protrusion on the heat shield for the screw suggests as much)

We don’t know for sure

Interesting, may not be as easy as unscrewing an m.2 but could be somewhat modular, maybe to make it easy for microsoft to release higher capacity units down the line.

 

[Garani]

Anyhow, just over a month and we’ll know for sure if it’s screwed or soldered.

 

[ZywyPL]

I always feel the panic around SSD lifespan is overblown without any actual data/facts/examples, those drives will last waaay longer than the consoles themselves, if anything, it's the BD that will die first.

 

[Endless Fluff]

Interesting, may not be as easy as unscrewing an m.2 but could be somewhat modular, maybe to make it easy for microsoft to release higher capacity units down the line.

The problem here is of a different nature, though.

Even if that SSD is replaceable, there is no Gen4 2242 (that small form factor) NVME on the market. The only 2242 NVME I could find was a Sabrent Rocket, it’s a Gen3 drive that only hits 1.7GB/s reads. The others are all SATA.

So you couldn’t replace it even if you wanted to. At least for now.

 

[DonJorginho]

Assuming you actively use the console for 10 years, that's 164 GB of writes per day. Assuming the average next gen game is 50GB, that means you'd have to install and uninstall more than 3 games a day for 10 years before your SSD wears out.

Facts on GAF? The end days are upon us brothers and sisters.

 

[Xyphie]

Reading from a SSD has almost no impact on endurance, so it will be much better than a HDD in that regard. Using the quick resume feature is the only thing that will really put any meaningful wear on the SSD as that's the only thing that really writes data to the drive in a significant manner. Write endurance of this Samsung SSD is 0.3 DWPD (Drive Writes per Day) and that's probably conservative, so you'll probably have to write ~300GB a day (so 30 or so game swaps) to the drive to cause any meaningful wear within the generation.

 

[JimboJones]

The problem here is of a different nature, though.

Even if that SSD is replaceable, there is no Gen4 2242 (that small form factor) NVME on the market. The only 2242 NVME I could find was a Sabrent Rocket, it’s a Gen3 drive that only hits 1.7GB/s reads. The others are all SATA.

So you couldn’t replace it even if you wanted to. At least for now.

Yeah, for the near future it will most likely be parts from doner boards if people do find a way to replace them.
Nintendo Switches have modular internal memory that you can actually replace now, obviously emmc memory is far less cutting edge that these consoles though but it might be doable in a few years.

 

[Games Bookstore]

Is it soldered to the mainboard?

For the speeds that Sony have indicated it would highly unlikely for the SSD to be a secondary pcb. Without any console tear down though, this is pure speculation on my part.

For xbox S/X I haven't seen a teardown so I can't comment. I would it would be soldered on, given the seagate memory cards, but can't say so for sure.

 

[Andodalf]

Is it soldered to the mainboard?

XSX is so you’d have to assume SS is too. PS5 I’d give a 95% chance of being soldered.

 

[Birdo]

If you think that's bad. The batteries in Switches will die quicker than SSDs (The switch will not operate, even docked, without a partially charged battery).

 

[GreenAlien]

How do you change a broken graphics card or cpu? Where would you even get the parts, aren't they custom made?

Was do-it-yourself repair ever a thing with consoles?

 

[Maybe It's Medicine?]

Console folks always clinging to their physical purchases and terrified of the inevitable end of all things.

 

[DarkestHour]

Arent SSDs more durable than harddrives though? I mean not infallible as nothing is, but is there worry these things wont last until next-next gen?

Yes, very. No moving parts. However, SSDs do degrade over time based on how many writes are performed, but the amount of writes it takes now to do that is in the thousands of terabytes written.

 

[RoadHazard]

You send it to Sony, like if any other integrated component breaks. And the SSD is much less likely to break than an HDD with moving parts, it's more like the GPU breaking.

 

[kuncol02]

Answer: you don't.

This is a trade-off that we will have to deal with later on during a console life. If in the past we could just swap storage and the hardware would still be viable, with the upcoming generation we will have to trow away a fully working console just because the SSD failed and is soldered on the motherboard.

Given that we have no idea of the life expectancy of the SSD solutions used by MS and Sony, I think this issue will bite us back with the used hardware market.

Xbox Series S one looks like it not soldered.

 

[BlackTron]

There are still PS3's in service in my family as streaming boxes and blu-ray players, but only after needing HDD replacements (a SSD makes them quite zippy).

I don't like the idea that if a PS5's storage goes, it's not a user-fixable problem. It makes every console a ticking time bomb the more you use it.

 

[Garani]

There are still PS3's in service in my family as streaming boxes and blu-ray players, but only after needing HDD replacements (a SSD makes them quite zippy).

That’s a cool idea! I probably should do the same to my PS3!

 

[BlackTron]

That’s a cool idea! I probably should do the same to my PS3!

The PS3 even has a Plex app if you're into that kind of thing. PS3 still works just fine as a multimedia center, assuming you just want 1080p of course, but it's a pretty good way to put a 14 year system into service.

Of course, the topic at hand is that PS5's might end up in a graveyard by then. Once the system is in the wild, we'll know everything pretty quick.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Consoles are the new phone motto. Buy and replace, never fix it. Imagine if your car battery died or the window motor stopped working, and you bought a new car because of it.

You can replace the screen and the battery and literally everything on phones though. Maybe you're confused with paid warranty policies.