DonJuanSchlong
Banned
No. Phones used to have removable backs several years ago. Manufacturers are making phones less and less user repairable. Replacing screens were much easier in the past compared to now.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The rise of SSDs and a console end-of-life (how do I change a broken SSD?)
- Thread starter Garani
- Start date
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I get what you're saying, but you still can replace your batteries and so, but with hassle. I've repaired some myself in a shop though, replacing screen/other failed parts, and you can as well replace whatever is inside the phone.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I'll be getting a PS5 Super Slim at the end of the system's life I'll tell you that much.
Because this thing definitely has an expiration date. The good thing is that I will be able to use the bricked PS5 as a vacation home.
Because this thing definitely has an expiration date. The good thing is that I will be able to use the bricked PS5 as a vacation home.
Archvile82
Banned
These days you will get either external or cloud backups of your profile and saves. The repair market has kinda died over the years, easier to hand over a new console 'half the time being a refurbished console' .
Kdad
Member
Yep...brought this up the other day when the did the teardown video. Maddening from a collector point of view.
Kdad
Member
I have 43 year old gaming machines that I still use...I use my OG Fat PS3 at least weekly...there are some of us that use gaming machines for a long time.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If the internal ever fails, I wonder if the expansion slot would just take over.
Garani
Member
From the looks of things, XSX and XSS are just the same: soldered on board. And with them being the size of bricks... you get the gist of things.
Good question. I was wondering just about that. It depends how it's being partitioned. If there is a way to prioritise boot from the external instead of the internal SSD, things could be less dire.
captainraincoat
Banned
Ssds have a longer life than mechanical drives and chances are we get a pro refresh probably halfway through the lifecycle
Tomeru
Member
This is true for ps4 and xboxone as well. If the nand fails, the console is bricked - doesnt matter if the hdd was ok or not.
It is fixable though, so I dont see a reason for it to not be fixable on ps5 and xsx. To some degree atleast.
There is a very small list of things you cant repair today. I dont see that changing come next gen. Price is another matter, but like some thinking persons here already said - ssd dont tend to break down more than hdds. In fact, one of the most frequent problems I had to fix through out this gen was malfunctioned hdds. Sine console arent immune to physical wear and tear, having a non mechanic storage device actually helps.
Anecdotal maybe, but it is based on my experience.
SegaSnatcher
Member
With normal use your SSD shouldn’t fail any worse than previous consoles with a HDD, because you will not be writing 100TBs+ worth of data which is the life expectancy of any decent SSD.
mcz117chief
Member
This youtube video explains it perfectly how to solve this issue
DonJorginho
Banned
Unless you're making this vastly more dramatic than it actually is.
With normal use your SSD should be fine and last the entire generation. Sony & Xbox know more about tech than any of us here, they would have thought about the shortcomings of SSDs and how to adapt to them.
mcz117chief
Member
Yeah, it was meant as a joke, mate
DonJorginho
Banned
Forgive me, have not had my afternoon coffee yet.Yeah, it was meant as a joke, mate
Faithless83
Banned
It wasn't a problem on Wii, WiiU or Switch and on cellphones. Now it is a problem?
Do you know the 360 used flash memory as well?
As long as you are not erasing and installing the whole ssd worth of games everyday it should last the whole gen without problems.
"But the OS" yes, I would avoid using the "hybernation" feature. Other than that, consoles OS are usually very static by nature, so there isn't many writes to the storage unless it's updating.
That said PS5 SSD also has DRAM cache which also helps managing the wear of SSD. Do you actually believe that they went cheap on the SSD? Hell I can't see a thing that screams cheap on PS5. Also you can use the external NVME drives as well.
As a collector, the proprietary format on XSX/XSS is my concern. It isn't cheap and it will be hard to find in the future.
Do you know the 360 used flash memory as well?
As long as you are not erasing and installing the whole ssd worth of games everyday it should last the whole gen without problems.
"But the OS" yes, I would avoid using the "hybernation" feature. Other than that, consoles OS are usually very static by nature, so there isn't many writes to the storage unless it's updating.
That said PS5 SSD also has DRAM cache which also helps managing the wear of SSD. Do you actually believe that they went cheap on the SSD? Hell I can't see a thing that screams cheap on PS5. Also you can use the external NVME drives as well.
As a collector, the proprietary format on XSX/XSS is my concern. It isn't cheap and it will be hard to find in the future.
SSDs don't have any moving parts, so they're already a step above HDDs in terms of potential points of failure. They're not invincible, but they're a helluva lot more durable.
It's not a legitimate concern. Yes, there is a finite wear and tear based on write cycles. However, the average gamer will come nowhere near the limit over the lifetime of the console. The warrantied life span for a 1TB Samsung 970 EVO is 600 TB writes, and I assume the Series X and PS5 SSDs will be similar.
Samsung 970 EVO | Consumer SSD | Specs & Features | Samsung Semiconductor Global
Samsung 970 EVO delivers PCIe® Gen3 NVMe, M.2, and capacities ranging from 250GB to 2TB. Download 970 EVO firmware, driver, and more.www.samsung.com
Assuming you actively use the console for 10 years, that's 164 GB of writes per day. Assuming the average next gen game is 50GB, that means you'd have to install and uninstall more than 3 games a day for 10 years before your SSD wears out.
You’re forgetting the constant writes for gameplay recording...
Kenpachii
Member
Pretty sure both have expandable storage
Kenpachii
Member
SSDs don't have any moving parts, so they're already a step above HDDs in terms of potential points of failure. They're not invincible, but they're a helluva lot more durable.
It's not a legitimate concern. Yes, there is a finite wear and tear based on write cycles. However, the average gamer will come nowhere near the limit over the lifetime of the console. The warrantied life span for a 1TB Samsung 970 EVO is 600 TB writes, and I assume the Series X and PS5 SSDs will be similar.
Samsung 970 EVO | Consumer SSD | Specs & Features | Samsung Semiconductor Global
Samsung 970 EVO delivers PCIe® Gen3 NVMe, M.2, and capacities ranging from 250GB to 2TB. Download 970 EVO firmware, driver, and more.
Assuming you actively use the console for 10 years, that's 164 GB of writes per day. Assuming the average next gen game is 50GB, that means you'd have to install and uninstall more than 3 games a day for 10 years before your SSD wears out.
SSD writes go up massively with next gen boxes something u don't take into account. PC games in general do not use more then 100mbps writes up and down. Which limits the data throughput massively.
For example AC odyssey uses 1gbps at max for about 1-2 seconds and after that drops all the way to 60mbps or even 40mbps for loading the game. Everything in the world is also limited towards this hard limit because otherwise consoles are not being able to push it.
With the PS5 this is no longer the case, they can use 5,5gbps a second every second which makes the theoretical usage of that SSD go from currently solutions 100mb, 6gb a minute. Towards PS5 solutions 5,5gb, 330gb a minute.
Gigantic difference of 55 times the factor. Now split that through 600tb and suddenly u only have 11tb writes really in comparison left.
Here's a 1,5 year old 970 pro on a PC.
The SSD will be death within 5 months now.
Now obviously 330gb a minute will never happen and SSD will most likely not die on 600tb but probably a bit higher than that unless those chips are utter dog shit quality. but we can't ignore writes will go up massively with far larger amounts of data that transfers vs what we got now as those chips will finally be used.
The topic starter could very well be right that SSD's will die out in a few years on those boxes if they are used intensively and the chips are off piss poor quality to save money.
Last edited:
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
No I'm not because that's not relevant. I could have phrased the point in terms of gameplay recorded per hour per day, and that would have expressed the same point. If you must know, however: One minute of PS4 captured video is about 50MB. An hour would be 3000MB, or 3GB. 164GB a day divided by 3GB = 54.7 hours. That's more hours than an actual day has!
Okay, assume the PS5 records at twice the size. That still means you can record 24/7 for 10 years. C'mon dude.
There are lots of people who installed SSDs in their launch PS4s. If this was such an issue, you'd have heard about it from those people by know, 7 years later.
You're making a helluva lot of unlikely assumptions. You also have no way of knowing if game writes are going to scale linearly like that.SSD writes go up massively with next gen boxes something u don't take into account. PC games in general do not use more then 100mbps writes up and down. Which limits the data throughput massively.
For example AC odyssey uses 1gbps at max for about 1-2 seconds and after that drops all the way to 60mbps or even 40mbps for loading the game. Everything in the world is also limited towards this hard limit because otherwise consoles are not being able to push it.
With the PS5 this is no longer the case, they can use 5,5gbps a second every second which makes the theoretical usage of that SSD go from currently solutions 100mb, 6gb a minute. Towards PS5 solutions 5,5gb, 330gb a minute.
Gigantic difference of 55 times the factor. Now split that through 600tb and suddenly u only have 11tb writes really in comparison left.
Here's a 1,5 year old 970 pro on a PC.
The SSD will be death within 5 months now.
Now obviously 330gb a minute will never happen and SSD will most likely not die on 600tb but probably a bit higher than that unless those chips are utter dog shit quality. but we can't ignore writes will go up massively with far larger amounts of data that transfers vs what we got now as those chips will finally be used.
The topic starter could very well be right that SSD's will die out in a few years on those boxes if they are used intensively and the chips are off piss poor quality to save money.
Do you really think Sony doesn't have a spec for average writes/hour a game should have in the design documents, along with metrics about the average writes/year that an average user will experience, and then did the simple math to source an SSD with the write endurance to handle that average use case for the majority of their customers?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And almost every platform builder from Apple to Windows PCs are equipped with them now. Granted they can be changed, but there is no disclaimer when purchasing that endurance might be an issue. These manufactures have crunched the numbers and done their homework.
jayj
Banned
Yeah SSD storage is reliable to the point where you are more likely to have some other component fail before the storage fails.
BusierDonkey
Member
The primary SSD in the Xbox Series X appears to be removeable. Microsoft's own renders, as well as multiple teardown videos made back in March showed the drive is not soldered on. It appears to be held down by a single Torx screw like a typical m.2 format NVMe drive in a PC. That is housed under some metal shielding that clips to the top of the SSD housing which is also removeable.
It can be seen here:
We do have an idea how long an SSD will last as well. SSDs are a lot more durable than people assume and the technology has vastly improved over time thanks to advancements to hardware itself and the software controlling how the hardware is utilized. My oldest 250GB SSD has 22.3 TB of writes on it and it still reading as good on Crystaldiskinfo. The NVMe and CFExpress type drives in the two new consoles are rated at much higher writes/sector than my old SSD, they have better controllers to spread out writes, and they can sustain much more sector death before becoming inoperative.
If you have some time, take a quick look at the following, it paints a much better picture of SSD life expectancy than the fear mongering that was rampant in the early days of SSDs before they became more widely adopted.
How Long Does an SSDs Last? | Calculate Your SSD’s Lifespan
Learn how long your SSD will last and how to maximize their lifespan with our comprehensive guide.
www.enterprisestorageforum.com
I wasn’t saying it as a bad thing, just pointing out it’s a thing. I have an SSD in my PS4 Pro. Could never go back.
Blond
Banned
Endurance Test of Samsung 850 Pro Comes To an End after 9100TB of writes
Yes, tso hat is 9.1 Petabyte of data written. Good lord. The German colleagues from c't have ended their SSD endurance tests after the last SSD decided to go belly up. ...
www.guru3d.com
3 years ago
That last SSD of the survivors was the Samsung 850 Pro, and it had written an astounding 9100 TB of data, yep 9,100,000 Gigabytes. That particular SSD is rated for 150 TB written and now is three years old.
A normal office system writes between 10 and 35 GB per day. Even if you had a generous 40 GB per day, a nominal endurance of 70 TBW would be achieved after five years. Now if we extrapolate that data and take it to the Samsung SSD 850 that would be 60 times the guaranteed write performance of 150 TBW. At that average of 40-gigabyte daily usage, (purely theoretical of course) that SSD would have lasted 623 years.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I know it's a thing. I wasn't forgetting anything. It doesn't matter towards my point. The math could be calculated with game installs, game recordings, quick resumes, data transfers, or whatever combination of the above you want.
DrAspirino
Banned
That depends on the OS. For example, on Xbox 360 and Xbox one, the machine can boot into recovery mode with really limited functionality with a damaged HDD, since the firmware is NOT stored on the drive, rather than an alternate EEPROM. If your xbox 360 internal hard drive died on you, you just removed it and added another one and the console would then enter into recovery mode and download the OS from Microsoft servers (or a USB drive). Same happens on the Xbox one. I think that in PS4 the system works like that as well.
So, if the system soldered SSD dies, at least on Microsoft side you should be able to install the OS on the external SSD (since it works at the same speed as the internal one) and be done with it. With the PS5.... I think it would be a bit (or a lot) trickier, since Sony opted for a custom SSD controller.
Similar threads
- Poll