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The ultimate NEXGEN expectation thread

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I'm expecting teh shit from developers like Ueda, Kojima and Rubin. If I were to list the best 10 games ever, the majority would be on the current consoles. I'm honestly ecpecting that nex-t-gen is going to blow to roof clean off.
 

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
The lowered standards were evident when GRAW was praised for its graphics. A lot of stuff is very low poly/low detail in that game.
 
Pachinko said:
Okay, for the last 8 months there has been countless bitching pissing and moaning about next gen games not living up to personal graphical expectations and seeing as many developers read this forum I think it's hightime we have a thread where they can read what us huge nerds think on this issue.

Reply by answering these 3 simple questions-

1- What is more appealing, a title that looks like gears of war/naughty dogs new game/MGS4 but runs at 15 fps/ 30fps -w- slowdown or a game that looks like an xbox 1 title running at an unfaltering 60 FPS in full 1280X720P ?

Personally, finding a nice medium is best. Give me special effect crazed content if you can get the game running at a constant 30 FPS , lower the detail level if you have to to maintain this framerate.

2- If you had the choice between buying a game that looks like gears of war but is all choppy framerate wise in 1 month or waiting 6 months for it get cleaned up and have a stable framerate, what would you rather have ?

I realize there are deadlines and all that but going with my first responce, developers should value a stable constant framerate more then anything. 30 FPS , if sacrifices have to be made to hit a deadline then turn off some bloom filters and tone down the bump mapping to make it work. In other words I'd rather wait for a proper finished product then have a rushed inconsistent game. Tomb Raider legend 360 is a good example of this, it's a decent game but with another month or 2 development I'm sure they could have had it running at 60 FPS.

3- Describe briefly through comparisn to existing products what you think a next gen game should look like, post a screenshot if you have to.

I find alot of GAFFers have unreasonable expectations of a next gen videogame. Call it dimishing returns or lacking eyesight , whatever. Stuff that's coming that I feel perfectly lives up to an acceptable standard- Naughty dogs game for ps3, almost any unreal engine 3 games. Again though, stable framerate guys. 60 is smooth and looks fantastic sure but a stable 30 with lots of special effects is also great. Right now the minimum bar for a next gen title I think is stuff like Kameo, anything less then that is kind of lazy.

So have at er gaf. Any developers out there post more questions if this thread doesn't dive into obscurity.

1.) 30fps. I'd much rather dela with that than a high res current gen game running at 60fps

2.) Waiting for the framerate to get cleaned up. No reason to rush it

3.) This is just speaking from a technical standpoint

High end - MGS4, GoW, Heavenly Sword, FFXIII, ND Game, Mass Effect, HALO 3 ect.

In the middle - Resistance, Dead Rising, Virtua Fighter 5, Stranglehold ect.

Low end - Trusty Bell, NFS Carbon, Eye of Judgement, Vampire Rain ect.
 

Tk0n

Member
elostyle said:
The lowered standards were evident when GRAW was praised for its graphics. A lot of stuff is very low poly/low detail in that game.

but it also has some of the best lighting and animation we've seen yet.
 
elostyle said:
The lowered standards were evident when GRAW was praised for its graphics. A lot of stuff is very low poly/low detail in that game.

GRAW pushed draw distance, audio, lighting and shader use WAY beyond even PC titles, the level of immersion compared to previous gen versions like Summit Strike showed that next-gen was definitely here and on the right track.

MGS4 has low poly, low detail items in the trailer but it is the techniques used to display them that makes them irrelevant in context.
 

llTll

Banned
Amir0x said:
people have to take into account scope. Dead Rising takes place in a huge mall and a small little town and has 100s of Zombies on screen at once. This is why, those visuals are much more attractive for what it does.

regarding that.

i have only 1 oe 2 screens from the very very old footage /screens of dead rising wih 100s of zombies. but in the last new screens, you are lucky if you find 20 zombies. i dont know whats up
 

llTll

Banned
Francias Castiglione said:
GRAW pushed draw distance, audio, lighting and shader use WAY beyond even PC titles, the level of immersion compared to previous gen versions like Summit Strike showed that next-gen was definitely here and on the right track.

MGS4 has low poly, low detail items in the trailer but it is the techniques used to display them that makes them irrelevant in context.


mgs4 has low poly/detail?

may you please explain that with screen shots?
 

llTll

Banned
Francias Castiglione said:
ITEMS

Look at the shots yourself, as I said everything that NEEDS to be high poly/detail is.

well.. i really didnt mean to make fun of you and that i was doing. i was wondering where did you get this from because i have seen trailers and screen shots and they look very high polys etc.
 

Amir0x

Banned
llTll said:
regarding that.

i have only 1 oe 2 screens from the very very old footage /screens of dead rising wih 100s of zombies. but in the last new screens, you are lucky if you find 20 zombies. i dont know whats up

Just gotta find the right pics. There's one image of the main dude on the roof that was released recently, where he is overlooking the parking lot and you see so many zombies.
 
llTll said:
well.. i really didnt mean to make fun of you and that i was doing. i was wondering where did you get this from because i have seen trailers and screen shots and they look very high polys etc.

metalgearsolid4gunsofthepatriots20060509075620868ra7.jpg


In this example your attention is on Raiden and the Metal Gear Cows so the basic buildings aren't an issue, that is all I was saying.
 

Kabouter

Member
1- What is more appealing, a title that looks like gears of war/naughty dogs new game/MGS4 but runs at 15 fps/ 30fps -w- slowdown or a game that looks like an xbox 1 title running at an unfaltering 60 FPS in full 1280X720P ?

Neither. I expect a game that looks like Crysis @ 60FPS.
Guess I'll have to wait another year or 2 :p.


2- If you had the choice between buying a game that looks like gears of war but is all choppy framerate wise in 1 month or waiting 6 months for it get cleaned up and have a stable framerate, what would you rather have ?

Wait, duh.
I'm not going to be enjoying an action title that runs like shit.

3- Describe briefly through comparisn to existing products what you think a next gen game should look like, post a screenshot if you have to.

Clicky
 

llTll

Banned
Francias Castiglione said:
metalgearsolid4gunsofthepatriots20060509075620868ra7.jpg


In this example your attention is on Raiden and the Metal Gear Cows so the basic buildings aren't an issue, that is all I was saying.


mmm. i see what you mean. good thing this game has superp animation though lol
 

Tk0n

Member
llTll said:
well.. i really didnt mean to make fun of you and that i was doing. i was wondering where did you get this from because i have seen trailers and screen shots and they look very high polys etc.

i know i may get alot of hate for saying this, but i dont think that mgs4 pushes considerably more polys than other next gen games. the narrow color toning, the dof, good texturing in the faces, the dust and the camera shake just makes you think that.
i mean, look at raidens hair *ugh*
 
Kojima's work is proof that screenshot analysis is a retarded practice! :D

Low poly/detail objects are fine if they contribute to a smoother experience and don't play a prominent part in the game. Getting upset because you can't read the ingredients on a soda can in an FPS is beyond ridiculous.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
Kabouter said:
1- What is more appealing, a title that looks like gears of war/naughty dogs new game/MGS4 but runs at 15 fps/ 30fps -w- slowdown or a game that looks like an xbox 1 title running at an unfaltering 60 FPS in full 1280X720P ?

Neither. I expect a game that looks like Crysis @ 60FPS.
Guess I'll have to wait another year or 2 :p.


2- If you had the choice between buying a game that looks like gears of war but is all choppy framerate wise in 1 month or waiting 6 months for it get cleaned up and have a stable framerate, what would you rather have ?

Wait, duh.
I'm not going to be enjoying an action title that runs like shit.

3- Describe briefly through comparisn to existing products what you think a next gen game should look like, post a screenshot if you have to.

Clicky

QFT to that my good friend :lol
 
Otto said:
Seriously, anyone with any common sense knew from the beginning not to expect graphics reaching the level of the Killzone CG. Did you really expect $400-$600 machines were going able to produce those kind of results when it costs movie studios thousands upon thousands of dollars to producer similiar (if not the same) results?

Ultimately, you may be right, but you've failed to pose a convincing argument above. What does the cost of the machine have to do with the investment required by studios to produce graphics that meet the quality seen in the Killzone CG?
 

beat

Member
threeball said:
Not to be nit-picky or anything, but what part of a game are you actually playing the game from that angle? It looks like a dialogue cutscene. The graphics may be real-time, but during those parts of the game, the poly counts and detail can be much higher since nothing else is going on.

I went to the Mass Effect images on IGN and it looked like there was nothing but target renders. Is there any gameplay footage screens yet?

That screencap was straight from the E3 in-engine trailer. To extrapolate from Bioware's previous games and the ME trailer, it's a seamless no-load interactive conversation part of the game, which implies that the models look pretty much that good (well, LODs handwave handwave). But they're not really cheating that much; in that trailer you can see the character heads are still somewhat blocky and the textures don't have a super-high-res mipmap level for the extreme close-up shots.

The trailer also shows some combat gameplay, which looks OK but not great.
 

Dr. Jade

Member
LETS GET SOME GOOD, INNOVATIVE, FRESH, (DEAR GOD EVEN COLORFUL) ART DIRECTION ... AND BY THAT I DO NOT MEAN ROAMING ANOTHER BURNED DOWN, WAR TORN CITY OR COUNTRY SIDE IN A FPS SHOOTER




REPLAY THE FOLLOWING GAMES AND THEN REPORT BACK TO ME

-NIGHTS
-SUPER MARIO SUNSHINE
-ZELDA WIND WAKER
-ICO
 

FightyF

Banned
Campster said:
First of all, I think you're underestimating the price of art content these days. It's the number one factor driving game development costs up. And we're talking exponential, out of control, skyrocketing growth for what has been very little return so far.

Additionally, photorealism really, really isn't possible. Even if we get photorealistic screenshots (which we're still decades away from, if ever), sports games require jerky animations and impossible momentum changes and turns in order to play well. In motion, Madden 06 on the 360 doesn't look that much better than Madden 03 on the XBox.

My belief is that it has to do with the way games are made.

Take Mortal Kombat for example, which was more photorealistic than most 2D titles. They didn't have artists slave away pixel by pixel trying to recreate content from photographs, the content started out as photographs themselves.

Now, this is a bit more pricey, but over time, costs go down. Secondly, more effecient methods pop up.

Keep in mind that my game development experience is somewhat minimal compared to others. I've worked on maps for FPS games, and coded some stuff in Unrealscript, and just little things. My background is CompSci w/ Software Engineering and got a Management minor and because of that background I really am convinced that project pipelines are backwards in many ways. But I do have a lot to learn. I'd love to follow the development process for a few games. Like doing a documentary sort of thing.

As far as animations go, that's up to the programming and AI, I think that co-cap and hand animated stuff is a thing of the past. A mix is most realistically achievable at this stage (limited by processing power).

See, that's just totally out of touch. Skyrocketing development costs from content creation woes are really really hurting this industry, not saving it. If we saw an exponential growth in sales from each pixel shader or bump map we added, that would make sense. But we don't. Our market is expanding, but nowhere near as quickly as costs are increasing. We're still running a hit-driven, one-great-game-makes-up-for-four-other-failures business model.

Well, I really think that dev costs don't have to skyrocket at all. They can go up, but smart investements in engines and technologies (like 3D scanning) for multiple projects makes sense to me.

And 'immersion' is as much of a red herring for games as 'fun' - a subjective and entirely useless design goal.

I disagree. A game like The Getaway had the goal of looking realistic, and it was extremely immersive because it was.

Actually, HDR, bump/normal mapping, and shaders all can contribute immensely to a photorealistic image. Without these technologies you'd be looking at stuff pretty close to Unreal Tournament with nicer textures and higher polycounts these days.

Sorry, my wording was horrible. I meant to say that the focus was on the technologies themselves and not the correct application of them. Ie. Kush's NHL 2K7 features bump mapping on the jerseys, and it looks neat, but not realistic. EA's NHL 2007 has a high res photographic texture for the jersey, and it looks real.
 
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